Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

gret posted:

Is advancement to associate even possible in the patent agent position? I mean firms usually advance agents to associates once they finish law school, but if you already have a JD...

Yeah, that's a huge concern also.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 03:42

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 23:43

Maynard_Hippo: Apr 10, 2010

So I've decided to go to law school. I used the flow charts handily provided on the first page and arrived at "go for it," so I will.

All jokes aside, for employers, is there a large difference between schools in the T14, outside of Harvard/Stanford/Yale? I have gotten into a few of the T14 (ranked 7, 7, 13, and 14), and think it will come down to some money from the 13/14 schools v. no money from the #7 schools. If employers don't care, I'd rather keep my debt load down.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 03:45

Sulecrist: Apr 5, 2007; Better tear off this bar association logo.

Maynard_Hippo posted:

So I've decided to go to law school. I used the flow charts handily provided on the first page and arrived at "go for it," so I will.

All jokes aside, for employers, is there a large difference between schools in the T14, outside of Harvard/Stanford/Yale? I have gotten into a few of the T14 (ranked 7, 7, 13, and 14), and think it will come down to some money from the 13/14 schools v. no money from the #7 schools. If employers don't care, I'd rather keep my debt load down.

Those charts were made in the boom years (2007). Do not throw your life way. Also channel consensus is that Penn and Mich are both pretty raw but I thought Mich was great ,but too cold, when I visited.

There are huge differences in the T14. They attract different kinds of students. They are in different cities with different weather and different greater metropolitan areas. They have different professors and different clinics. The alumni networks are in different places. All of these things are soft but all of them can have a major impact on where you end up working. And these are the things you should consider at this point, not rank, unless HYS are in the mix.

A typical employer isn't going to see a Georgetown resume and a UVA resume and an NYU resume and think "god, GULC is tied with Texas and NYU is a TTT in decline now that Chi is moving the gently caress up; better take the school that's pumping its quartile GPAs." He's going to think about the lawyers he knows and the ones who taught him.

If I could do it again, I'd weigh geography much, much more heavily. It worked out for me, but I got lucky.

Also don't loving go to law school.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 04:21

Maynard_Hippo: Apr 10, 2010

Sulecrist posted:

Those charts were made in the boom years (2007). Do not throw your life way. Also channel consensus is that Penn and Mich are both pretty raw but I thought Mich was great ,but too cold, when I visited.

There are huge differences in the T14. They attract different kinds of students. They are in different cities with different weather and different greater metropolitan areas. They have different professors and different clinics. The alumni networks are in different places. All of these things are soft but all of them can have a major impact on where you end up working. And these are the things you should consider at this point, not rank, unless HYS are in the mix.

A typical employer isn't going to see a Georgetown resume and a UVA resume and an NYU resume and think "god, GULC is tied with Texas and NYU is a TTT in decline now that Chi is moving the gently caress up; better take the school that's pumping its quartile GPAs." He's going to think about the lawyers he knows and the ones who taught him.

If I could do it again, I'd weigh geography much, much more heavily. It worked out for me, but I got lucky.

Also don't loving go to law school.

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. I'm not some recent undergraduate that is going because I don't know what else to do. I've had a successful job, for a number of years. I love the law. I fully comprehend the risk I am taking.

Don't care too much where I live. Going to just visit them all!

# ? Jan 26, 2012 04:37

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

Maynard_Hippo posted:

I love the law.

What does this mean?

# ? Jan 26, 2012 04:54

more friedman units: Jul 7, 2010; The next six months will be critical.

Maynard_Hippo posted:

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. I'm not some recent undergraduate that is going because I don't know what else to do. I've had a successful job, for a number of years. I love the law. I fully comprehend the risk I am taking.

Don't care too much where I live. Going to just visit them all!

You guys still exist? There really IS an inexhaustible supply of suckers out there.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 05:01

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Maynard_Hippo posted:

I love the law.

May you receive everything you deserve

# ? Jan 26, 2012 05:07

NJ Deac: Apr 6, 2006

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

Just got an offer at a big law firm as a patent agent for $110k. I am currently a patent examiner with base salary of $98k, but overtime and bonuses bump that up to about $150k.

No way I'm taking that, but what's my counter-offer? $145k? $170k?

We just made an offer to a patent examiner with about 18 months of experience at the USPTO and a one year district court clerkship as a first year associate for 140k. You should be able to do better if you really want to leave the USPTO, especially given the state of the market for EE types with experience.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 05:17

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

Just got an offer at a big law firm as a patent agent for $110k. I am currently a patent examiner with base salary of $98k, but overtime and bonuses bump that up to about $150k.

No way I'm taking that, but what's my counter-offer? $145k? $170k?

$500k
Don't give up that cherry job for less.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 05:19

Ersatz: Sep 17, 2005

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

Yeah, I sure think so. I applied to the agent position thinking "Oh, they'll see I have a JD, and I can't imagine that if they want agents that they wouldn't be looking for attorneys."

I just have never heard about counter-offering a position like this. I'm lucky that I'm in a position where I can, because I'm in no way desperate to leave my current job.

With your credentials, you should be able to get market rate as a first year associate. If you haven't already done so, try applying here and here. I would be surprised if you don't hear back from at least one of the two firms.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 05:55

Ganon: May 24, 2003

http://www.finnegan.com/danielleduszczyszyn/

# ? Jan 26, 2012 06:02

BigHead: Jul 25, 2003; Huh?; Nap Ghost

Ganon posted:

http://www.finnegan.com/danielleduszczyszyn/

Danielle A. Duck-sizzilin', Esq.

Also, I was officially beat in court today by a constitutionalist. He was so loving deliriously happy that his babble worked that I couldn't explain the real reason I was dismissing the case lest I break his little heart. He's one of the nice ones and I totally don't think he's even going to sue me for a trillion dollars of gold bullion like the rest.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 06:08

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

Maynard_Hippo posted:

So I've decided to go to law school. I used the flow charts handily provided on the first page and arrived at "go for it," so I will.

All jokes aside, for employers, is there a large difference between schools in the T14, outside of Harvard/Stanford/Yale? I have gotten into a few of the T14 (ranked 7, 7, 13, and 14), and think it will come down to some money from the 13/14 schools v. no money from the #7 schools. If employers don't care, I'd rather keep my debt load down.

Agree strongly with the geography point made by Sulecrist, both for where you want to be over the next few years and where you'd ultimately like to practice. Like Penn is still a national school but there are more doors open to you in the Northeast than in CA.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 07:08

tau: Mar 20, 2003; Sigillum Universitatis Kansiensis

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

Just got an offer at a big law firm as a patent agent for $110k. I am currently a patent examiner with base salary of $98k, but overtime and bonuses bump that up to about $150k.

No way I'm taking that, but what's my counter-offer? $145k? $170k?

You have no student loan debt, correct? Are... are you trolling us? :psyduck:

# ? Jan 26, 2012 07:33

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Sulecrist posted:

Those charts were made in the boom years (2007). Do not throw your life way. Also channel consensus is that Penn and Mich are both pretty raw but I thought Mich was great ,but too cold, when I visited.

There are huge differences in the T14. They attract different kinds of students. They are in different cities with different weather and different greater metropolitan areas. They have different professors and different clinics. The alumni networks are in different places. All of these things are soft but all of them can have a major impact on where you end up working. And these are the things you should consider at this point, not rank, unless HYS are in the mix.

A typical employer isn't going to see a Georgetown resume and a UVA resume and an NYU resume and think "god, GULC is tied with Texas and NYU is a TTT in decline now that Chi is moving the gently caress up; better take the school that's pumping its quartile GPAs." He's going to think about the lawyers he knows and the ones who taught him.

If I could do it again, I'd weigh geography much, much more heavily. It worked out for me, but I got lucky.

Also don't loving go to law school.

I agree that geography is very important, but I also don't think there's an employer outside of Texas that would take an UT grad over a Michigan grad everything else being equal (and it never is). Same with Penn v. Georgetown and so on.
If we're talking 7 v. 5 or 7 v. 9, I don't think there's a huge difference, but 7 v. 14 is fairly big.
Now if money is in the mix, I don't know whether that is worth a whole lot of extra debt.
Geography is pretty important though. If you want a job in LA, UCLA, a lowly 16, will do better than most of the T14.

And yes, don't go to law school stands.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 07:54

Kalman: Jan 17, 2010

It doesn't matter where you go, you're still going to wind up on a short term fellowship sponsored by your school so they can pump up their employed at 9 months numbers.*

(*Statement may not be true of HYS. Statement is also probably not true of terrible law schools, because they're not even bothering to fund short term fellowships.)

# ? Jan 26, 2012 08:05

LeafHouse: Apr 22, 2008; That's what you get for not hailing to the chimp!

I have a strange question that I have wondered about for quite a while. If the police were to arrest someone and were unable to ascertain their identity and the arrested individual refused to speak at all what would happen to them?

# ? Jan 26, 2012 08:11

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

LeafHouse posted:

I have a strange question that I have wondered about for quite a while. If the police were to arrest someone and were unable to ascertain their identity and the arrested individual refused to speak at all what would happen to them?

They'd fingerprint him.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 08:12

LeafHouse: Apr 22, 2008; That's what you get for not hailing to the chimp!

nm posted:

They'd fingerprint him.

What if they can't or they don't come up as a match to anyone?

# ? Jan 26, 2012 08:41

Direwolf: Aug 16, 2004; Fwar

LeafHouse posted:

What if they can't or they don't come up as a match to anyone?

They would call the FBI and the FBI would figure it out.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 09:43

bluegoon: Mar 5, 2010; by Pragmatica

ILW1501 INTRODUCTION TO LAW
SCL1501 SKILLS CRSE FOR LAW STUDENTS
TSK011U THINK SKILLS 011 (ACCESS)

Finally decided to enroll in a 6 year part time LLB Law degree through UNISA, I've got a full time job, so doing only three modules per semester, any tips for a first time student studying LAW telematically?

Just for clarity, studying South Africa law, based off of Dutch Roman Law.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 12:26

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

LeafHouse posted:

What if they can't or they don't come up as a match to anyone?

He'd sit in jail until he chose to identify himself.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705388111/Despite-dozens-of-tips-inmates-name-remains-a-mystery.html

BigHead posted:

Also, I was officially beat in court today by a constitutionalist. He was so loving deliriously happy that his babble worked that I couldn't explain the real reason I was dismissing the case lest I break his little heart. He's one of the nice ones and I totally don't think he's even going to sue me for a trillion dollars of gold bullion like the rest.

Constitutionalist as in, government should be limited in its powers (e.g., Bill of Rights) and its legitimacy depends on obeying those limitations? Or something cooky?

joat mon fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jan 26, 2012

# ? Jan 26, 2012 14:15

Feces Starship: Nov 11, 2008; in the great green room
goodnight moon

bluegoon posted:

THINK SKILLS

name change pls

# ? Jan 26, 2012 14:20

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Ersatz posted:

With your credentials, you should be able to get market rate as a first year associate. If you haven't already done so, try applying here and here. I would be surprised if you don't hear back from at least one of the two firms.

I feel like I've applied there before.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 14:26

entris: Oct 22, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

bluegoon posted:

ILW1501 INTRODUCTION TO LAW
SCL1501 SKILLS CRSE FOR LAW STUDENTS
TSK011U THINK SKILLS 011 (ACCESS)

Finally decided to enroll in a 6 year part time LLB Law degree through UNISA, I've got a full time job, so doing only three modules per semester, any tips for a first time student studying LAW telematically?

Just for clarity, studying South Africa law, based off of Dutch Roman Law.

Every once in a while we get a goon like you who comes in here speaking moon language and wanting to know about moon law. I doubt anyone here knows anything about the legal education system of South Africa, although it sounds fascinating so please report back in.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 15:15

Lilosh: Jul 13, 2001; I'm Lilosh with an OSHY

Kalman posted:

It doesn't matter where you go, you're still going to wind up on a short term fellowship sponsored by your school so they can pump up their employed at 9 months numbers.*

(*Statement may not be true of HYS. Statement is also probably not true of terrible law schools, because they're not even bothering to fund short term fellowships.)

In my current 200-person 2L class at Cornell, the overwhelming majority of us have jobs for the summer. I mean, the economy might poo poo itself and we all get no-offered, but that would be an economy-wide thing.

As it stands, I can count on one hand the number of people who sought firm jobs and don't have one. People from the top of the class, down the significantly below the median have 2L SA jobs.

Edit: This isn't intended to brag. It's more of a "Rank 13 doesn't mean you'll starve under a bridge, begging and giving handjobs"

# ? Jan 26, 2012 15:35

Grammar Fascist: May 29, 2004; Y-O-U-R, Y-O-U-Apostrophe-R-E... They're as different as night and day. Don't you think that night and day are different? What's wrong with you?

Kalman posted:

It doesn't matter where you go, you're still going to wind up on a short term fellowship sponsored by your school so they can pump up their employed at 9 months numbers.*

(*Statement may not be true of HYS. Statement is also probably not true of terrible law schools, because they're not even bothering to fund short term fellowships.)

Not true at SLS, but only because the Dean doesn't want it to look like he's pumping up the numbers... so he just doesn't support fellowships at all, even though a lot of public interest students are having trouble finding jobs. :argh:

# ? Jan 26, 2012 18:20

gret: Dec 12, 2005; goggle-eyed freak

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

I feel like I've applied there before.

Are you pretty much set on staying in the DC area?

# ? Jan 26, 2012 19:15

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Maynard_Hippo posted:

I love the law.

lmao kill yourself

# ? Jan 26, 2012 19:18

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

I love the law guys, god, sometimes im just up all night thumbing through a 400 page stack of probate law cases, thats some compelling reading

# ? Jan 26, 2012 19:19

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

I am the law

# ? Jan 26, 2012 20:48

Penguins Like Pies: May 21, 2007

CaptainScraps posted:

What does this mean?

It sounds like a question on my 1L Foundations final. For 70 marks: I love the law. Explain.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 21:04

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Law is patient, law is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud

# ? Jan 26, 2012 21:31

Bro Enlai: Nov 9, 2008

kiss and have sex with the law errday

# ? Jan 26, 2012 21:38

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Phil Moscowitz posted:

I am the law

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ

# ? Jan 26, 2012 21:41

Tiax Rules All: Jul 22, 2007; You are but the grease for the wheels of his rule.

My friend is very interested in prison reform, and wants to get a joint MSW/JD. The JD isn't necessarily to practice law, but more because it will help people "take her seriously."

Obviously, this is a stupid loving idea. I've had trouble getting through to her about it though. Can anyone else help me articulate why this is such a stupid loving idea?

# ? Jan 26, 2012 21:53

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

Tiax Rules All posted:

My friend is very interested in prison reform, and wants to get a joint MSW/JD. The JD isn't necessarily to practice law, but more because it will help people "take her seriously."

Obviously, this is a stupid loving idea. I've had trouble getting through to her about it though. Can anyone else help me articulate why this is such a stupid loving idea?

ask your friend if she likes being in debt forever.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 22:24

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Omerta posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ

I love this video so much

# ? Jan 26, 2012 22:28

scribe jones: Sep 17, 2008; One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Law is patient, law is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud

The law is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

# ? Jan 26, 2012 22:34

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 23:43

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Omerta posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ

I miss having this video as my avatar but aaron shooting fireworks from his crotch is not something one just walks away from

# ? Jan 26, 2012 22:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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