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Zeta Taskforce posted:Assuming this is a regular 401K, (it probably is, but check with the administrator), it MUST be converted into a Traditional rollover IRA. This is because it is pretax money and it must remain pretax money. This is not a taxable event. However once it is in the rollover IRA, if you want to convert it into a Roth, you can. This is a taxable event. You won’t owe the penalty, but you will owe income taxes at whatever your bracket is. Is there point to convert it into Roth IRA? I guess depends if I think my tax bracket now will be lower than later on?
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Jan 24, 2012 20:20
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Zeta Taskforce posted:words Ya I'm pretty sure. I can get the info mailed to me if I call them or they can tell me the information I need to know over the phone but I don't want to call everyday to get the updated amount of my fund. Currently, those are the only methods I can track my funds with. I use a mostly online bank which provides access to indexed funds from a much larger bank, and offers me a rebate on the management fee etc which is why its a little less accessible than most. The banks in questions are PC Financial, who is my bank, and CIBC, which is the bank that provides the mutual funds. This is in Canada btw. Will check out Quicken as well, thanks!
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Jan 24, 2012 20:21
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Are there any good free personal accounting programs around? I recently setup a web based one from a competing bank which is okay but is: web-based and pretty basic.
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Jan 25, 2012 20:43
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What, like mint.com?
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Jan 25, 2012 22:33
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totalnewbie posted:What, like mint.com? Last time I checked Mint was US only. Has this changed? Edit: US and Canada. 
Red_Fred fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 23:40
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Voodoofly posted:I think they might be able to. I looked up some of the information online and had my parents use the federal website and hotline for more information. Last I spoke to them they were going to call BofA directly today. Just wanted to follow up with you to see how this is going. If it's BofA there might be something I can do in terms of getting a mortgage associate to speak with them and all of that if they haven't done so already.
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Jan 26, 2012 03:29
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Not sure if this is the correct thread for this, but what the hell. I quit my job over two years ago and just recently received a check from them for backpay or something. Awesome, except the check is dated 2009. What the hell am I supposed to do with this? I don't even live in Texas anymore! (mail was forwarded. Actually, it was sent to my old address, then was forwarded to my previous address, then got forwarded to my current address. Sheesh.)
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Jan 26, 2012 12:44
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Can someone point me to resources in setting up a HSA? I pay for my own health care plan, and it's a low premium/high deductible (5k) one that I'm stuck on until the changes in 2014. I'm having minor surgery + some unrelated physical therapy done right now, so I figured I could set up the HSA to pay those bills when they come due, correct?
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Jan 26, 2012 20:30
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Gabu posted:Just wanted to follow up with you to see how this is going. If it's BofA there might be something I can do in terms of getting a mortgage associate to speak with them and all of that if they haven't done so already. Thanks! I'm seeing them this weekend so I will ask how it is going. Assuming they haven't spoken to anyone yet (a high probability), I'd love any help you can give. Let me know if you have PMs or if there is a better way to get in contact with you.
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Jan 26, 2012 20:36
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mastershakeman posted:Can someone point me to resources in setting up a HSA? I pay for my own health care plan, and it's a low premium/high deductible (5k) one that I'm stuck on until the changes in 2014. I'm having minor surgery + some unrelated physical therapy done right now, so I figured I could set up the HSA to pay those bills when they come due, correct? You should be able to talk to a local bank or credit union about setting this up. My employer set one up at PNC Bank for us and handles the deposits into it, but I imagine you can choose what bank you would like to use as long as they participate in HSA.
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Jan 26, 2012 20:46
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mastershakeman posted:Can someone point me to resources in setting up a HSA? I pay for my own health care plan, and it's a low premium/high deductible (5k) one that I'm stuck on until the changes in 2014. I'm having minor surgery + some unrelated physical therapy done right now, so I figured I could set up the HSA to pay those bills when they come due, correct? But AFAIK, you cannot reimburse yourself for surgery and therapy done before the HSA was established, even if the bill arrives later. So set it up ASAP so you can use it for expenses you incur from now on. The IRS HSA guide should tell you everything you need to know. edit: IRS website posted:For HSA purposes, expenses incurred before you establish your HSA are not qualified medical expenses. State law determines when an HSA is established. An HSA that is funded by amounts rolled over from an Archer MSA or another HSA is established on the date the prior account was established. 80k fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jan 26, 2012 |
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Jan 26, 2012 20:58
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Anyone know anything about Care One Credit Debt Management plans? Currently we can make all our credit card payments every month, but if they could get the interest rates lowered we'd certainly get them paid off much faster. The only thing that worries me is the amount of people talking about getting served with legal papers, though they might be on the debt settlement plan instead of the dmp. Edit: Now that I've dug down to page 5-6 of Google results this isn't looking like a good idea. Lots of complaints. TOOT BOOT fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Jan 27, 2012 |
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Jan 27, 2012 06:39
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Voodoofly posted:Thanks! I'm seeing them this weekend so I will ask how it is going. Assuming they haven't spoken to anyone yet (a high probability), I'd love any help you can give. I can be reached by email agar1990@gmail.com From there I can give you a bit more info after or before I go to work. Now mind you I'm not a mortgage officer but if you're parents are unable to speak with someone just email me a good day of the week and time, along with a phone number, so I can have someone call them and break down any potential costs or go to the next step.
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Jan 27, 2012 09:00
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Gabu posted:I can be reached by email Thanks again. I'll drop you a line either way after I see them this weekend.
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Jan 28, 2012 00:33
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ok, so not so newbie, and not even for me... long story short my sister's husband racked up over 200k in debt. Almost half of it he took out in her name without her consent. They can't file for bankruptcy because my sister needs to be bonded for her job, and douchebag bro-in-law doesn't want to lose his toys in liquidation since they don't have any disposable income to possibly finance a chapter 13 bankruptcy. Basically, what would be her best option? Does she have any recourse, since even though they were married he went behind her back to obtain these lines of credit without disclosing them to her? They've got a multi-thousand dollar lien against their joint checking account, to the point where my sister is getting her paycheck deposited into our mom's bank account because they need to be able to pay for things like groceries, etc. E: she also is not against kicking her husband out if it means getting her financial poo poo together. She'd rather not for sake of y'know, the wholesome american family and all, but she's pissed off at him enough over this that she's willing to do it if she has to. She refuses to leave, though, because she doesn't want to leave my nephew with him, and he's got aspergers and picking him up and moving him across town is something she'd rather not put him through. \/\/ she talked to someone about that, and apparently since they were married, it's really really hard to prove the "identity theft" angle because of joint property and all that jazz, considering that they did have a number of joint accounts that she knew about like their mortgage, home equity loan, checking account, and the two credits cards that she made sure got paid every month. Dr Jankenstein fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 28, 2012 |
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Jan 28, 2012 04:45
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Her husband committed identity theft by opening those accounts in her name without her authorization. He must have had to have forged her signature at some point to take out so much debt and that is 100% identity theft and should not be treated as anything less. What she should do is kick him out, report him to the police, report the accounts/lines of credit that she didn't personally open to the credit agencies and the companies that own them as fraudulent, freeze her credit, and, if she's smart, start looking for a good divorce lawyer to at least give her advice on what a divorce would do to help or hurt her (and your nephew) at this point.
Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jan 28, 2012 |
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Jan 28, 2012 05:27
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AA is for Quitters posted:ok, so not so newbie, and not even for me... Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. Edit: shrike82 posted:
Is this including or excluding mortgage debt and/or equity? Evil SpongeBob fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jan 28, 2012 |
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Jan 28, 2012 06:44
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AA is for Quitters posted:she talked to someone about that, and apparently since they were married, it's really really hard to prove the "identity theft" angle because of joint property and all that jazz, considering that they did have a number of joint accounts that she knew about like their mortgage, home equity loan, checking account, and the two credits cards that she made sure got paid every month. Does "someone" mean a guy working the counter at the Starbucks, a friend who is in law school, or an actual lawyer? This sounds like a situation far too complicated and important for your sister to resolve on her own, and only a lawyer is really going to be able to tell her if she has a case or not. He may or may not suggest that she separate from him to strengthen her case / avoid weakening her case, or any number of other potential steps. I would imagine she doesn't have a ton of recourse if she can't prosecute him and doesn't want to leave him (do you think there's some magical words you can say as a ward against creditors?) but finding out if that's true for real is a good first step. I would also recommend she get her credit report (it's free) to make sure she knows about everything opened up in her name. If I were her I would be looking into prosecuting him for identity, so I'd also get as much information as she can about how those were applied for and approved. I can't even fathom staying with someone who stole $200K from me and my child so I have no advice to give there. Except "sell all of his poo poo immediately to pay back creditors". The fact that they haven't done this already is kind of mind-boggling to me.
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Jan 28, 2012 16:23
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Sophia posted:Does "someone" mean a guy working the counter at the Starbucks, a friend who is in law school, or an actual lawyer? This sounds like a situation far too complicated and important for your sister to resolve on her own, and only a lawyer is really going to be able to tell her if she has a case or not. He may or may not suggest that she separate from him to strengthen her case / avoid weakening her case, or any number of other potential steps. I would imagine she doesn't have a ton of recourse if she can't prosecute him and doesn't want to leave him (do you think there's some magical words you can say as a ward against creditors?) but finding out if that's true for real is a good first step. "someone" was a credit counselor to figure out what her non-bankruptcy options were. The idea of seperation was brought up with the credit counselor because at the very least, that gets rid of over the half the debt in her house. (Seriously, he racked up 87k in one account alone). Credit counsler was the one that said that the criminal side would be hard to prove because so many of their assets are joint assets. Also, y'know, she doesn't want to see her husband go to jail and her son without a father because of poor financial decisions. She already pulled her credit report so she knows everything in her name. The "sell all his poo poo immediately" will likely happen as soon as she kicks his rear end out - she just needs to get over her hangup of presenting the perfect surburban family front to everyone else. Her whole life goal was to have the husband, the kids, the dog and the white picket fence, and she's got this big hangup about "family" and all that.
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Jan 28, 2012 17:29
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AA is for Quitters posted:ok, so not so newbie, and not even for me... Just curious, what is your sisters job? Does she have other skills to do something else? I would think that unless she is making huge money, bankruptcy is the only option and the court will force the sale of all the crap. If by chance she is making big money and the income would be hard to replace, then she has enough money to clean up the mess of man child sells the crap. It might have been a surprise that he used her name to get even more debt but it's not a surprise she is married to a greedy selfish idiot who loves his stuff more than his family. She already knew that, just not the degree. This is her biggest problem. Also lawyers.
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Jan 28, 2012 22:03
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Here is a strange question. I'm currently using Chase as my main credit card company. I also have a checking account with them. Which means I'm typically carrying around two cards, one for credit and one for debit/savings/checking. Is there a way I can combine these two cards into one? So I don't need to be carrying both cards?
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Jan 29, 2012 01:02
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obi_ant posted:Here is a strange question. I'm currently using Chase as my main credit card company. I also have a checking account with them. Which means I'm typically carrying around two cards, one for credit and one for debit/savings/checking. Is there a way I can combine these two cards into one? So I don't need to be carrying both cards? No. They are different cards, different accounts, and they do different things. Maybe some day we will have techno-chips that allow you to tap into multiple accounts from one device (phone, card, etc.) but for now that's not possible. Credit cards are very simple things - a few lines of information encoded on a magnetic strip - and they just don't have the capacity to "switch" like that. I was going to say just use your debit card like a credit card, as long as you have the account cushion to do so, but this can backfire sometimes (if a company overcharges you, it comes straight from your money with no intermediary).
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Jan 29, 2012 02:14
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AA is for Quitters posted:"someone" was a credit counselor to figure out what her non-bankruptcy options were. The idea of seperation was brought up with the credit counselor because at the very least, that gets rid of over the half the debt in her house. (Seriously, he racked up 87k in one account alone). Credit counsler was the one that said that the criminal side would be hard to prove because so many of their assets are joint assets. Also, y'know, she doesn't want to see her husband go to jail and her son without a father because of poor financial decisions. She already pulled her credit report so she knows everything in her name. IANAL but a lawyer should be spoken to. Only a few states are true "community property" states, and even then there are likely exceptions in the case of fraud. Even married couples have different credit histories and different SSNs, and if he pretended to be her for the purpose of fraudulently acquiring stuff that is as they say in legalese "a thing"
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Jan 29, 2012 02:16
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Naes posted:Almost certain this question does not need its own thread and belongs here so here we go: Google Finance may let you do this if the funds are exchange-listed; Morningstar (not to mention other sites) also offer similar services and I believe they include funds.
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Jan 30, 2012 13:23
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I recently got my first credit card at the ripe age of 25. I have a fair credit score due to a few large loans I paid off with no problem, but I want to round out my credit history so I went for a Chevy Chase Platinum Card and was approved instantly. I have been told the best way to build good credit is to put monthly expenses on the card and always pay in full. Does anyone have some quick-tips on the best way to use the card to build a good credit foundation?
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Jan 30, 2012 17:31
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It recently occurred to me that I still get all my bank and credit card statements through paper mail like a caveman. Is there any reason why I shouldn't switch to paperless statements? My only concern is that if something goes wrong I might not have physical records to prove my side of things, but the odds of that are very low and obviously most people seem to be switching so I assume there's no risk associated with it.mfaley posted:I recently got my first credit card at the ripe age of 25. I have a fair credit score due to a few large loans I paid off with no problem, but I want to round out my credit history so I went for a Chevy Chase Platinum Card and was approved instantly. Exactly what you just said - use the card and pay it off every month. That's pretty much it.
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Jan 30, 2012 18:04
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Third Murderer posted:My only concern is that if something goes wrong I might not have physical records to prove my side of things, but the odds of that are very low and obviously most people seem to be switching so I assume there's no risk associated with it. I don't receive paper statements, but I can still go to my bank website and download the statement for each month as a PDF. If you were concerned you could just set a reminder for yourself to save your statement each month in case you need it.
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Jan 30, 2012 19:06
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Third Murderer posted:Exactly what you just said - use the card and pay it off every month. That's pretty much it. Awesome, thanks!
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Jan 30, 2012 19:08
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mfaley posted:I recently got my first credit card at the ripe age of 25. I have a fair credit score due to a few large loans I paid off with no problem, but I want to round out my credit history so I went for a Chevy Chase Platinum Card and was approved instantly. Clearly a family trip to vegas should be your next move.
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Jan 30, 2012 21:24
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DuckConference posted:Clearly a family trip to vegas should be your next move. It was Walley World  Seriously, I’m sure you are fine. If you only have paid for loans on your credit and everything was always in good standing , you already have good credit. That is why Chase instantly approved you. A monkey could approve you. By having a mix of credit, i.e. loans and revolving credit, your credit will be slightly better, but that is a very minor aspect of your credit compared to payment history and utilization. It is true that if you go 6 months without using a card, it doesn’t report as an active account, so the reporting doesn’t factor in the same way, so if you are going to get it, you might as well use it at some level, but you certainly don’t have to max it out, carry a balance, or pay it off slowly over time. As a reminder, if you are going for a large ticket item like a house or a car, having credit is only part of what a responsible lender looks at. They should also be looking at your income in relation to your expenses, and for a house, your assets, savings, investments, and down payment.
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Jan 30, 2012 22:17
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Ashcans posted:I don't receive paper statements, but I can still go to my bank website and download the statement for each month as a PDF. If you were concerned you could just set a reminder for yourself to save your statement each month in case you need it. Good point. I do this with all my documents too. Download them all in PDF and store them on my computer and on a thumb drive. In fact, I bought a nice scanner a couple years back and converted everything I have over to PDF to reduce clutter. There really isn't a need to receive paper records anymore.
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Jan 31, 2012 00:24
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I don't know if this deserves its own thread or not, but I will try to keep it brief and see what you all think: Three years ago I was in my Junior year at an ivy league college when I found out that my Grandmother was diagnosed with stage IV liver cancer. My grandmother was my most important person in my life and I stayed in school for another six months at her request, but later her cancer got worse and I withdrew from school to be closer to home and able to visit her while she valiantly fought for her life. I had picked up a retail sales job where a friend worked and figured I would work there until the fall when I would go back to school. Well my grandmother was the cosigner on my private loans (I nor my family had enough money to send me through school, so I took out loans for everything). So I was unable to get more funding to continue my education. I also found out that I owed the school around $10k for withdrawing in the middle of a semester. I have been out of school for the last three years and have just recently figured out that I was living very financially irresponsible and now I am worried that I will never be able to finish school. I can't finish without paying my old school to free up my transcripts and I can't pay that off because I am paying on my student loans and other personal debt (two student loans have defaulted already because I could not make the minimum payments and ran out of forebearance options). My question is what I should do now so I can make the best of the next five years, and maybe, someday finish my education in my grandmother's honor. I have a $1,000 Emergency Fund established and I have been attacking my credit card debts which total $12,297.43. I made ~$40k in 2011 and should do the same or a little more in 2012. Should I eliminate my Credit Card debt before even considering going back to school? Or should I pay the minimums on everything and finish my bachelor's as soon as possible? I was living in a dreamworld just 3 years ago and was majoring in Philosophy to eventually become a teacher. I realize now that the amount I have spent (borrowed) and the major I have chosen are not ideal. Should I lump it and finish the degree and try for something more financially viable in a master's program or change my major completely and transfer to a more affordable local school and switch to something a little more viable degree-wise? Also keep in mind I will only be able to transfer after paying the balance I owe to the first school or I won't be able to get my transcripts released. I need goon help!
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Jan 31, 2012 01:23
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I think that is something that is up to you, but I'd want to answer some questions if it were me. Why do you need a philosophy degree from an Ivy League to teach? I don't know anything about the major and job prospects, but is it so much more prominent that you will be guaranteed a well paying job right out of school? Will a state school provide the same credentials and same job opportunities at a significant discount? If you change degrees will you have to start all over or do you have enough credits to at least have most of the basic classes done? What major would you change to? Is your Ivy League school known for that major and do they have good placement after graduation? What are the interest rates on your cards/loans? Will a degree significantly increase your income so that you could handle the debt quickly?
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Jan 31, 2012 06:34
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|Ziggy| posted:I think that is something that is up to you, but I'd want to answer some questions if it were me. I don't need the degree to be from the ivy league school. I do not intend to finish there whether I stick with Philosophy or not. And it's definitely not a guarantee of a job just because I went there. As I said, I wasn't really firing on all cylinders while I was attending there, responsibly speaking. I just thought that if I did end up finishing and got into teaching that I wouldn't make much more money than I do now at my retail job. I'd just be doing something a little more fulfilling. I would probably have to start over if I changed majors, unless I changed back to Physics which I was thinking of majoring in during my first year and a half to two years. Basically I had no real idea what I wanted to do (still don't, for the most part) when I started attending. I just went with what I was interested in. I realize this was dumb on my part and I don't want to go back just to finish, I want to go back with a goal and purpose in mind. Here's my debt that is current: Credit Cards: US Bank - $10,351.87 @ 7% Chase Bank - $1,816.47 @ 29.99% Citibank Credit - $129.09 @ 29.99% Student Loans: Stafford - $10,281.67 @ 2.36% Stafford - $30,207 @ 6.8% Stafford - $5800 @ 6% Defaulted student loan debt: ~$140,000 (in collections) Wow, typing it all out really makes me feel like a huge idiot. Guess I am paying my stupid tax.
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Jan 31, 2012 06:59
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Ashcans posted:I don't receive paper statements, but I can still go to my bank website and download the statement for each month as a PDF. If you were concerned you could just set a reminder for yourself to save your statement each month in case you need it. Niwrad posted:Good point. I do this with all my documents too. Download them all in PDF and store them on my computer and on a thumb drive. In fact, I bought a nice scanner a couple years back and converted everything I have over to PDF to reduce clutter. There really isn't a need to receive paper records anymore. I'm convinced! Thanks.
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Jan 31, 2012 13:54
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unoplank posted:Student Loans: Just wanted to put this out there: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/cancelstaff.jsp Student loan forgiveness for teachers in low income communities. It isn't much, though. Anyways, standard practice says start right now by paying down the 29.99% balances as soon as possible. As most of your loans are student loans, which can't be discharged through bankruptcy, you're going to be paying them for a while. Going back to school should give you another deferment on the Stafford loans, so maybe re-enroll in a state school (can you get funding? any teaching schools?), preferably a program where earning your teaching certification is rolled into the program so you can go to work right after graduation. That's a pretty rough situation, but it sounds like you have good intentions to get things straightened out again. Good luck!
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Jan 31, 2012 15:03
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This is probably more appropriate in the Car thread, but it ended up including a lot of general financial info. Okay, I'm 25 years old, 9 months out of school with an M. Eng., working as a software/embedded systems engineer for a huge multinational company. Take home pay is about $3000 a month. 10% (before take-home) goes into a Roth 401(k), 20% (after take-home) goes directly into savings. I have no debt. I support myself and my fiancee comfortably on ~$2000 a month. The ~$300 a month balance has (so far) avoided making it into savings through unexpected or (foolishly) unplanned expenses, including expenses related to moving, some car repairs, a death in the family, and Christmas. We have a 6 month emergency fund. My car is on its last legs. At 23 years old, the rust is cancerous, and it's gradually accumulating more and more functional issues. While it starts most mornings, any repair would cost more than the vehicle is worth. It looks like the car market is in a weird spot, though. I've got $7000 in the bank earmarked for a car. It looks like that will get me something reliable with ~100k miles. Vehicles I'm looking at include 2004-2006 Ford Focus, 2002-2004 Mazdas, and various 2001-2006 Kias and Hyundais. I've also looked at used cars that would be eligible for bank loans, in the $10k-$12k region. It's palatable, but all these vehicles are significantly closer to 100k miles than 0 miles. I'm looking for a compact/sub-compact, preferably hatchback. It's easy to find something new in this range for under $16000. I can definitely afford this, and a new car will almost certainly have fewer issues over the long run. So, am I right in my assertion that buying a new (sub-compact/compact) car isn't a completely terrible decision right now?
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Jan 31, 2012 15:47
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unoplank posted:I don't need the degree to be from the ivy league school. I do not intend to finish there whether I stick with Philosophy or not. And it's definitely not a guarantee of a job just because I went there. As I said, I wasn't really firing on all cylinders while I was attending there, responsibly speaking. Do you know what you want to do? There seems to be a wide gulf between physics and philosophy. And you brought up physics because you had started that, so that is more the path of least resistance, at least the way I read it. If you want to be a philosophy teacher, and that is your passion, you should do it, but if not, I don’t want to be your student. Also, your grandmother would be proud of lots of stuff, finish your degree for you, not her. The good news is that you will have to want it really bad, and if you get there you will be a really good philosophy professor, because you made an enormous mess, and it will take years of thoughtfulness and sacrifice to clean it up. You should start listening to Dave Ramsey. If you are not on a written budget, you need to get on one, and it’s going to be a very tight, bare bones one without a lot of luxuries. It might mean moving into a really cheap roommate situation or moving back home and see if you can pay zero rent, learn how cook and enjoy things like lentil soup. No vacations. Can you get an evening job? As far as payments, I would payoff and eliminate the two smallest credit cards. They are your highest rates anyway, and make minimum payments on the larger credit card and student loans that have not defaulted. After you pay off those 2 cards, save up money to cover the past due amount to the school. Between that and the cards, that is $12000. If you decide to live on nothing, there is no reason why you can’t do $1,000/mo towards everything. Or if you decide you are not ready for school at that point, you can use that to eliminate the larger card and start making arrangements for the defaulted loans. But when you do go back, you have to figure out a way to not borrow another $50,000. You don’t need to borrow $200,000 to qualify for a job that by your own admission pays barely more than retail.
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Jan 31, 2012 16:16
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Zuph posted:This is probably more appropriate in the Car thread, but it ended up including a lot of general financial info. 1) Buy a used car so you don't take a depreciation hit. Pros: This is a correct assumption and is the more fiscally logical route. Cons: You have to deal with a used car, its potential problems, and also deal with a still inflated used car market. 2) A new subcompact/compact is an okay deal at the moment Pros: It's new, under warranty, and you get keep the maintenance current. Also, these cars take the least amount of depreciation hit since they are so (relatively) inexpensive. They should also still resell at a good price since most of the new models get excellent gas mileage, and again, retain their value. Cons: You'll still take a depreciation hit. You'll be financing it and paying money to interest.
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Jan 31, 2012 16:21
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Zuph posted:This is probably more appropriate in the Car thread, but it ended up including a lot of general financial info. Normally I think people are trying to buy way too much car on these forums but you seem to be almost under-buying based off your position. I'd still advocate a used car, but one that is newer than you are talking about (2001 car will be 12 years old!). I'd look at used cars in the 2007-2009 time frame with high reliability ratings. Hyundai's come with a 60,000/5 Year bumper to bumper warranty that transfers to subsequent owners.
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Jan 31, 2012 18:25
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