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Rakugoon posted:In a way it would be pretty awful if it got licensed just because the translation would almost certainly be worse than Central Anime's, I mean they got that dialogue spot on. Also it wouldn't be free anymore and it's super long. Not gonna lie, I would probably buy LOGH. Regardless of price point. It'd take a while, especially if they made it crazy expensive, but eventually I'd pull the trigger.
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Jan 28, 2012 04:04
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^^^ Yeah this is one show you would need to have front and center in your media shelves, were it officially available.duck monster posted:Oberstein is awesome, because he's completely villianous, except for the fact he is at all points pretty much acting in everyones best interests so he's not a a villian at all.. Just a bit of a uptight prick. Just last Friday I watched the episodes where (late season 1) he sends the recon probe ahead to watch that planet get nuked by the nobles for propaganda fuel, rather than pushing Reinhard to get the intercept fleet there sooner and save 2 million lives. His argument pretty much mirrored the USA's decision to light up Japan at the end of WWII. Dude is hardcore Lawful-Neutral.
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Jan 29, 2012 22:34
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Takes No Damage posted:Just last Friday I watched the episodes where (late season 1) he sends the recon probe ahead to watch that planet get nuked by the nobles for propaganda fuel, rather than pushing Reinhard to get the intercept fleet there sooner and save 2 million lives. His argument pretty much mirrored the USA's decision to light up Japan at the end of WWII. Dude is hardcore Lawful-Neutral. Keeping in mind the national origin of LoGH, is it likely that this plot point was made specifically with that in mind?
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Jan 31, 2012 01:04
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Takes No Damage posted:^^^ Yeah this is one show you would need to have front and center in your media shelves, were it officially available. Ugh. Yeah I forgot about that bit. Ok, he's a bit of a prick...
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Jan 31, 2012 13:24
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That whole sequence (this whole show) makes me feel like the original novel must have been the Japanese Dune. They frequently touch on similar issues (consider the episode where the imperial officer tries to kick start agriculture on a colony planet; they have a massive cast of characters and their attendant political and personal motivations; and the presence of 'outdated' political systems like Imperialism in what seems like the far future. There's also the directional zeta gas that parallels the use of shields in Dune as an excuse for infantry to engage in melee combat! And how about Phezzan playing the role of Ix or Bene Tleilax as a technologically superior middle state? Not sure if this is a drum that has been banged before or not, but I keep being struck by the similarities. Chas McGill fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Feb 1, 2012 |
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Feb 1, 2012 10:41
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I probably shouldn't be laughing at this, but some of the homebrew attempts at english in this show really do amuse me sometimes
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Feb 5, 2012 15:53
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duck monster posted:I probably shouldn't be laughing at this, but some of the homebrew attempts at english in this show really do amuse me sometimes They still use QBasic in the far future? Did they just not expect an English translation?
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Feb 5, 2012 21:54
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Unless this is some Battleship Galactica "all of this had happened before" stuff. Maybe we're all watching our distant ancestors here!
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Feb 6, 2012 20:54
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ChaosSamusX posted:They still use QBasic in the far future? Did they just not expect an English translation? Not the far future, back in modan history
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Feb 7, 2012 13:27
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duck monster posted:I probably shouldn't be laughing at this, but some of the homebrew attempts at english in this show really do amuse me sometimes That episode had the biggest WHAT moment in the series - Brisbane, Capital of the Earth! 
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Feb 7, 2012 14:11
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Kiamet posted:That episode had the biggest WHAT moment in the series - Brisbane, Capital of the Earth! In the 80s there was bit of a love affair going on between Japan and Brisbane. There was a *huge* amount of japanese investment going into the place, and it was marketted very effectively as basically the golden standard for asian tourism. The bottom fell out when the japanese economy crashed in the asian financial crisis, but before that there was an absolutely massive japanese tourism industry for brisbane. The aim was to make brisbane for japanese tourists what bali is for australian tourists. Of course any hope of recovery of that industry was kneecapped by pauline hanson and the international media cottoning on to the fact that much of queensland (at least at the time) was full of unreconstructed racist fuckwits. Oh well. congrats rednecks , you drove away the money cow. Thats probably , considering this is an 80s to early 90s TV show, where that comes from, the idea that brisbane was some sort of utopia.
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Feb 7, 2012 14:34
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duck monster posted:In the 80s there was bit of a love affair going on between Japan and Brisbane. There was a *huge* amount of japanese investment going into the place, and it was marketted very effectively as basically the golden standard for asian tourism. The bottom fell out when the japanese economy crashed in the asian financial crisis, but before that there was an absolutely massive japanese tourism industry for brisbane. The aim was to make brisbane for japanese tourists what bali is for australian tourists. Ah of course! I should have made that connection, I grew up in a very touristy town in far north Queensland 
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Feb 7, 2012 14:49
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Takes No Damage posted:^^^ Yeah this is one show you would need to have front and center in your media shelves, were it officially available. Is that necessarily a villainous deed? From a strictly teleological or utilitarian perspective, fewer people died under those circumstances. Couldn't an argument be made that, by stopping the attack, you're taking an action that actually results in more deaths/human suffering/whatever? The real villain here, of course, is the one who launched the nuclear attack. Of course, I can't imagine that many people adhere to that sort of ethics - I certainly can't handle them myself - but I think it fits quite well with Oberstein's character. It's just, I guess, one of those things that adds a lot more depth to LOGH - very few shows would take on this sort of thing and its implications, and I think that, overall, they do it quite well.
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Feb 8, 2012 04:00
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That's what makes the show so realistic and interesting. There aren't that many "good/bad guys" as characters, more often we watch a bunch of people all doing what they think is right/best. Is there a legitimate justification for letting X innocent civilians die in order to potentially save the lives of 10X? What gives anyone the right to make those kinds of decisions? Maybe if I watch the series one more time I'll figure it out...
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Feb 8, 2012 08:34
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The real functionality of Oberstein's game plan sets it apart from him just being a dick. I mean, it's completely logical and coldly cruel to the people turned into acceptable losses, but for as hot blooded and 'noble' as reinhard's tactics are they are honestly dumb as poo poo and ep 500 (I think) really shows how lovely any losses are and that there are no good losses, so if there are going to be any the numerically fewest is probably the best course of action. The fact that you can even make that argument however show how richly realized both of those character's philosophies are. Which makes it that much less impressive how loving one note and lovely the terranists are. The idea behind them is great, cultists who want to return the stage of history to earth, but they are such loving awful caricatures.
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Feb 9, 2012 16:10
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DamnGlitch posted:The real functionality of Oberstein's game plan sets it apart from him just being a dick. I mean, it's completely logical and coldly cruel to the people turned into acceptable losses, but for as hot blooded and 'noble' as reinhard's tactics are they are honestly dumb as poo poo and ep 500 (I think) really shows how lovely any losses are and that there are no good losses, so if there are going to be any the numerically fewest is probably the best course of action. I'm going to assume you meant episode 50, but reading episode 500 made me laugh. It is quite a long series, haha.
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Feb 11, 2012 00:38
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Honest Ray posted:I'm going to assume you meant episode 50, but reading episode 500 made me laugh. It is quite a long series, haha. I believe they did mean episode 50. Although I believe it's actually Episode 51 where they show a bunch of casualties in really visceral detail (as in, Normandy sequence in Saving Private Ryan level of visceral).
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Feb 11, 2012 22:29
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David Corbett posted:Is that necessarily a villainous deed? From a strictly teleological or utilitarian perspective, fewer people died under those circumstances. Couldn't an argument be made that, by stopping the attack, you're taking an action that actually results in more deaths/human suffering/whatever? The real villain here, of course, is the one who launched the nuclear attack. Of course, I can't imagine that many people adhere to that sort of ethics - I certainly can't handle them myself - but I think it fits quite well with Oberstein's character. It's just, I guess, one of those things that adds a lot more depth to LOGH - very few shows would take on this sort of thing and its implications, and I think that, overall, they do it quite well. Its basically the point though where utilitarianism gets psychotic. Do you permit the murder of millions to save tens of millions, or do you go "Hang the gently caress on this calculus of suffering is very loving evil, need another perspective here!". I think theres a comment on hiroshima/nagasaki here, where the show is acknowledging the americans basic moral argument for why it did what it did, but also countering that regardless, mass bloodbathing civilians is an evil act regardless of the higher cause. But rather than make the explicit argument, it just space-fictionalizes it, and leaves it for the viewer to make his call. Does the viewer see obersteins point of view here, or does the viewer empathize with Rheinhart's remorse?
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Feb 12, 2012 06:11
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duck monster posted:Its basically the point though where utilitarianism gets psychotic. Do you permit the murder of millions to save tens of millions, or do you go "Hang the gently caress on this calculus of suffering is very loving evil, need another perspective here!". Hmm, no, I'm okay with saying that permitting the death of tens of millions seems ten times as bad. The whole nonviolence thing isn't my favoritest part of anime. But of course the real problem is the epistemological certainty a good person would demand before taking action that would lead to that many deaths. In the moral-hypothetical world of runaway railcars, where you can be told that you "know" what will happen if you do and do not flip the switch, sure, make your call. When you have to take a chance on what you know that you know, it'd might become hellishly difficult to do the right thing. If we grant the premise, though, it still would in fact be the right thing.
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Feb 12, 2012 06:27
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Yeah I'm a bit of a Kantian on this point. If you kill 2 million to save 10 million, your an evil-doer who's murdered 2 million, period. Evil things cant be good things without a giant amount of internal contradiction being accepted into the logic, and my brain just doesn't work that way. The whole thing requires a counter factual situation where somehow you magically know "Well if we dont nuke this planet we can guess 10 million will die!". Well really? Do we know that? Without time travel we don't know that. For all we know the other guys subordinates are about to knife him for being an evil oval office but hey, nuke the bad guys farmer planet.
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Feb 12, 2012 06:45
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I've been stuck at home the past two and a half months with a broken ankle, and since I've got a lot of time to kill I decided to see what's what in anime. My friends and I used to watch a lot in the 90s, but aside from catching the occasional show on Toonami in the early '00s, I haven't really seen much in the past decade and didn't really know where I should start. So I decided to pop on into the ADTRW forum and saw this series in the very title of the Recommending Anime thread. After doing a bit of research I liked what I saw - it was from an older era, the same era of shows that my friends I used to watch, it reminded me of the very first anime series I ever saw - SDF Macross, and it seemed deep enough to keep my interest. I downloaded the first 26 episodes, which for some reason I thought was the entire series, and I was hooked. Imagine my joy when I was done with 26 and discovered I had only watched but a quarter of the show's run. I went on to marathon the entire series in a week - like I said, I've got a lot of time to kill - and was still left wanting more. I don't know how some of you guys earlier in the thread managed, waiting months at a time for the next episode, as I can't fathom watching this series any other way than marathoning it. I do feel it lost a lot of it's drama after 82 though, 83-110 was simply an entire season of the inevitable - the domination of all space by the empire. The show mainly just focused on the consolidation and internal strife within the empire at that point. Even though it was all empire all the time from that point on, I'll admit I got pretty choked up as Reuental sat in his office dying, even if I still don't truly understand his motivation for doing what he did. I think it even affected me more than Yang's death - while Yang's was sudden and shocking, Reuenthal's death was in slow motion. Sitting at his desk, wounded, alone, putting his affairs in order as the day dragged on, knowing he wouldn't live to see the end of it. The Republican Rebels really only came back into focus near the end so the show could go out with a big battle, but it didn't really seem like anyone's heart was in it, and the Republican's 'victory' was only so that they could maybe kinda get a seat at empire's table. For all their sacrifice, all they were really able to do was simply manage to live another day. Other than that I don't have much to say. Fantastic series, just what the doctor ordered. DEO3 fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 17:28
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DEO3 posted:I've been stuck at home the past two and a half months with a broken ankle, and since I've got a lot of time to kill I decided to see what's what in anime. My friends and I used to watch a lot in the 90s, but aside from catching the occasional show on Toonami in the early '00s, I haven't really seen much in the past decade and didn't really know where I should start. So I decided to pop on into the ADTRW forum and saw this series in the very title of the Recommending Anime thread. After doing a bit of research I liked what I saw - it was from an older era, the same era of shows that my friends I used to watch, it reminded me of the very first anime series I ever saw - SDF Macross, and it seemed deep enough to keep my interest. Well other than the fact that the rebels effectively won by getting the planetary alliance territory back and leaving open the possibility of the empire taking a UK style turn and going constitutional monarchy..
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Feb 14, 2012 18:51
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Just started watching the series, first two movies and on ep 3. So far I've found Yang to be incredibly boring while Reinhard is awesome. Knife-fighting space combat offends my sensibilities but you can't expect much from science fiction.
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Feb 17, 2012 07:10
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"Knife-fighting space combat offends my sensibilities but you can't expect much from science fiction." what does this even mean?
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Feb 17, 2012 17:07
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I always understood the knife fighting to be a product of a fear of the Zeta radiation stuff that blows up when lasers hit it. Similar to the rationalisation of shields and hand to hand combat in Dune.
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Feb 17, 2012 17:14
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If he meant the h2h boarding parties, there are several good reasons for that yeah. The canon explanation is *exploding particles*. Not to mention extremely tough armor that the lasers usually bounce off of.
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Feb 17, 2012 17:42
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Beam coating: not just for Gundams anymore.
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Feb 17, 2012 17:46
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Nephilm posted:Just started watching the series, first two movies and on ep 3. So far I've found Yang to be incredibly boring while Reinhard is awesome. Yang hasn't really done anything yet, he will later. DamnGlitch posted:"Knife-fighting space combat offends my sensibilities but you can't expect much from science fiction." It means that armored dudes with axes and knives IN SPACE is bad and dumb and dumb and bad but it being scifi you have to take the space axes if you want the Schenkopp 
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Feb 17, 2012 17:54
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UberJew posted:Yang hasn't really done anything yet, he will later. Yang is one of the few anime protagonists to genuinely surprise me with their cunning. His fake asteroid fleet at the battle of Vermillion.
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Feb 17, 2012 18:00
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DamnGlitch posted:"Knife-fighting space combat offends my sensibilities but you can't expect much from science fiction." No, I meant extreme "we just rubbed hulls with the enemy" close range space combat. Up to 15 now. The series has also so far been very one sided on when a character is supposed to be a "good" guy or "bad" guy, but that's unavoidable in fiction I guess? But yeah, the Yang sections get better once he actually starts doing poo poo instead of focusing on his personal drama. Reinhard's is entertaining, Yang's is just bleh. ED: I can't stop laughing at how easily both sides are surprised by ships coming in from blind spots. It's like they can't see enemy ships unless they're straight ahead of them. Nephilm fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Feb 17, 2012 |
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Feb 17, 2012 20:39
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Nephilm posted:No, I meant extreme "we just rubbed hulls with the enemy" close range space combat. Up to 15 now. The series has also so far been very one sided on when a character is supposed to be a "good" guy or "bad" guy, but that's unavoidable in fiction I guess? But yeah, the Yang sections get better once he actually starts doing poo poo instead of focusing on his personal drama. Reinhard's is entertaining, Yang's is just bleh. The ship combat is so far removed from what seems plausible in the future (ie: extreme long range, high speed stuff akin to Iain M. Banks' Culture books) but it's probably more interesting to watch in anime form as a result. In one episode they mention that there's too much radio jamming for fleet communications to work, so they actually send a shuttle with a paper message to the frontlines... As for the good guy/bad guy stuff, it definitely gets a bit less binary. In fact, a lot of what the series seems to be about is trying to make the 'right' decision when your options are so compromised that every decision might be morally suspect.
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Feb 17, 2012 21:46
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Dunno, I'd really like to watch fiction with "realistic" space combat. In particular for this kind of story, where it's about grand strategy and large fleet tactics where individual ships pew pewing don't matter; if the space combat were realistic, the tactics employed by the opposites Yang and Reinhard would be more cerebral than greek phalanx maneuvering.
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Feb 17, 2012 21:56
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I think you should probably just keep watching to see where it goes
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Feb 17, 2012 22:06
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The thing you have to bear in mind with fleet tactics in LOGH is that while the numbers are huge and the sizes are massive, that has a particular disadvantage in how quickly you can command the fleet. Fleet movements take hours in LOGH given the size of the fleets in question and the distances they're often moving. Combine this with the fact that jamming prevents effective use of "smart" weaponry, yeah you get poo poo where it's just pew pew in each other's faces. And when you're both advancing at each other and can't slow down because there's a whole fleet behind you, the fleets can pass straight through and get right in each other's faces. LOGH actually does a really good job of rationalizing the nature of its fleet battles.
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Feb 18, 2012 00:19
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Rationalizing it over a context that really make no sense. I'll take Crest of the Stars any day.
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Feb 18, 2012 02:28
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If you can't engage in such a minor suspension of belief it is absolutely your loss.
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Feb 18, 2012 02:34
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It's camp value.
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Feb 18, 2012 03:20
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Nephilm posted:Rationalizing it over a context that really make no sense. I'll take Crest of the Stars any day. Wow, Star Trek and Star Wars must be like, unwatchable to you.
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Feb 18, 2012 03:21
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Rakugoon posted:Wow, Star Trek and Star Wars must be like, unwatchable to you. Very much. Also, I just got to the boarding troops fighting with axes and crossbows. This poo poo is hilarious. What's the rationale for this?
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Feb 18, 2012 03:36
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We literally just talked about thisDamnGlitch posted:If he meant the h2h boarding parties, there are several good reasons for that yeah. The canon explanation is *exploding particles*. Not to mention extremely tough armor that the lasers usually bounce off of.
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Feb 18, 2012 03:42
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