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nm posted:I am skeptical of rehabilitation, at least as it exists in the US. My experience has been the court mandated programs are pretty useless time wasters. They are incredibly expensive and that cost is always passed on to the defendant. A 24 hour outpatient drug program costs $500 here. And unlike the fines, that fee cannot be waved or converted to community service. It is a seriously profitable industry. One of the few court referral counseling/treatment programs I'm aware of that has a good (non predatory) model is UABSAP (University of AL in Birmingham Substance Abuse Program) in Jefferson County in Alabama. It includes TASC and some other programs which are also connected to the university. They get their funding from several sources: UAB (UABSAP is part of the psychiatry department), they aggressively seek federal grant money, and they get some funding from the state and county (well, not anymore). Traditionally they've gotten funding from the last two because they routinely analyze the county's budget (more than the county itself does, apparently) and have been able to demonstrate every year the cost effectiveness of diverting offenders to their program vs holding them in jail. For the University they provide research subjects (that sounds nefarious - subjects in the sense that they provide demographic data, they have people in their program fill out questionnaires for researchers, etc), and for the Federal government they provide statistics. My connection with them is related to that stuff - I did some programming work on a database application, and after that a short term job handling the paperwork and data entry for a researcher. Some of the intensive outpatient programs they run have fees, but the fees are done progressively based on income, below a certain point there is no fee. They also have exceptions for certain groups, like single mothers, and they provide things like free transportation for people who don't have the means to get to their required group and case manager meetings. Given the financial poo poo storm in the county and state (the state legislature has literally been inundated with tea party types who find the whole organization offensive), they've had to add fees to a number of formerly free programs. They made these fees progressive as well, but to do so they had to lay off a quarter of their staff and work out a deal to get a bunch of interns from the university. Basically, at that point they were relying almost entirely on getting funding for 2012 from a federal grant, which they had been preparing for months, because they were fairly sure the county was going to cut off funding (which they did). The county gets handed this grant proposal (they are responsible for submitting it), but fail to correctly fill out a single part of the federal form, somehow, and it's rejected. No money. Thankfully the director called in some favors (from a Senator, I think), and after some Washington shenanigans they were able to get the grant accepted. Otherwise, they would have had to shut down pretty much all of their operations next year, including the entire methadone program. The county putting the wrong code into a form field almost meant POOF hundreds of opiate-dependent people suddenly without methadone. I bring it up because yeah, you don't see court ordered rehabilitation instituted well hardly anywhere, and I think the situation described above is probably why. It's absolutely crazy that a program which sees itself as non profit providing mental health services, which supports related research for a state-funded university, and which is broadly seen as indispensable by judges and law enforcement in the county, literally has to fight tooth and nail for funding because they don't use punitive fees as their main source of revenue. Like you say, I think people generally approve of the idea of rehabilitation, but it seems to me that the funding, organizational focus and political will to do it in a non predatory way simply isn't there in most states. I was privy to conversations about the for-profit inpatient treatment businesses in other counties in Alabama, and they were basically described as, at best a racket, and at worse flat out abusive extortion of powerless and vulnerable people. The director of the jefferson county program and his staff try to keep tabs on this and if they notice something crazy they try to get it shut down. But this literally involves going out to the courts in these counties and talking to the judges, who have these little fiefdoms out in the boonies, to ask them nicely to not refer offenders to these abusive businesses, because the state apparently doesn't actively try to enforce regulations. Orbis Tertius fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jan 20, 2012 |
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Jan 1, 2012 03:17
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Haley Barbour just handed out over 200 unconditional pardons and sentence reductions. Holy poo poo.
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Jan 11, 2012 20:09
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Solkanar512 posted:Haley Barbour just handed out over 200 unconditional pardons and sentence reductions. Ah, what the hell? Is he insane, or is there some larger context to this I'm not getting. That part about 'trustys' makes it sound like he pardoned a number of them just because they seemed like decent enough dudes in person - which is really just, well that's just dumb.
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Jan 11, 2012 20:44
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Why the United Methodist Church Divested from Private Prisons A... A Good Thing, In The Prison Thread??? The United Methodist Church has put a screen in place barring any church that is a part of the UMC system from investing in "any corporation that has gross revenues of 10% or more from private prisons."
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Jan 11, 2012 20:49
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Orbis Tertius posted:Ah, what the hell? Is he insane, or is there some larger context to this I'm not getting. He can't run for Governor anymore and it looks like he's just tired of the political game in general, so he probably just said "gently caress it" and pardoned a bunch of people on his way out.
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Jan 11, 2012 20:59
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pokchu posted:The United Methodist Church has put a screen in place barring any church that is a part of the UMC system from investing in "any corporation that has gross revenues of 10% or more from private prisons." How many does that leave?
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Jan 12, 2012 14:39
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Just saw a 34 min preview of Slavery by Another Name. Both the Pulitzer-winning writer and the Emmy-winning director were there for a Q&A. It is a really cool documentary on the justice system of the south immediately following the civil war. Black men and women were thrown into an effective literal slavery via convictions due to the wording of the 13th amendment all the way through middle of the 20th century. By slavery, I mean legislatures wrote laws targeted at African Americans, local sheriffs convicted them on bullshit, threw them in jail and then sold them for a profit to plantation owners. The plantation owners used whips and chains to "control" their "convicts" that they bought and forced them to work their fields. It is not too drastically different from our current justice system, so I would encourage all of you to check it out on Feb 13 on PBS when the full thing airs. They did touch on the issue, but would not fully commit to saying how hosed up our current justice system is in front of 100+ old southern conservative people. I am hoping for a sequel that demonstrates modern injustice.
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Jan 13, 2012 06:53
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Action Potential posted:Just saw a 34 min preview of Slavery by Another Name. Both the Pulitzer-winning writer and the Emmy-winning director were there for a Q&A. It is a really cool documentary on the justice system of the south immediately following the civil war. Black men and women were thrown into an effective literal slavery via convictions due to the wording of the 13th amendment all the way through middle of the 20th century. By slavery, I mean legislatures wrote laws targeted at African Americans, local sheriffs convicted them on bullshit, threw them in jail and then sold them for a profit to plantation owners. The plantation owners used whips and chains to "control" their "convicts" that they bought and forced them to work their fields. Leased convicts were in many cases treated worse than slaves, since they were so much cheaper. What's more, with our privatized prisons, we're still incarcerating for profit.
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Jan 14, 2012 03:28
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HidingFromGoro, you are a hero. You have brought the truth of America's horrific medieval prison system to my eyes and those of many others. I know you're not the OP, but your contributions to this and other prison threads have been immeasurable.
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Jan 19, 2012 08:11
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Soulcleaver posted:HidingFromGoro, you are a hero. You have brought the truth of America's horrific medieval prison system to my eyes and those of many others. I know you're not the OP, but your contributions to this and other prison threads have been immeasurable. When I try to counter bullshit about prisons on other sites, I drop a few relevant statistics, and tell people to google "hidingfromgoro." He's so good, diligent, and prolific on this topic that his handle is a keyword that will find you pretty much everything you would ever want to know on the subject.
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Jan 20, 2012 06:38
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Voting in the prison can be done fairly easily. http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/publications/Fact_Sheets/prisoner_voting.htm You can stay enrolled at your previous address and vote absentee by mail, or re-enroll at the site of the lockup. If you are in a large regional clink they send in the guys from the AEC with real voting booths and pencils and all that jazz. Though, you can go to jail for not voting here so...
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Jan 20, 2012 07:43
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I was able to vote from inside the military brig by mail. so yes, it can be done, but the military criminal system is not setup to enforce law, its setup to enforce good order and discipline of the troops so you can end up in the brig for items as stupid as getting a tattoo (destruction of government property, aka your skin), being late to work, or saying Yes Sir in a poor tone of voice. I indeed saw the poor tone of voice one personally, the poor kid was sent to pree-trial confinement for disrespect to a superior and was stuck there for 90 days as they tried to build a case against him, he was released with out charge at his pree-trial hearing on the grounds that the charge was for something far to subjective but the damage was already done.
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Jan 20, 2012 09:10
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Soulcleaver posted:HidingFromGoro, you are a hero. You have brought the truth of America's horrific medieval prison system to my eyes and those of many others. I know you're not the OP, but your contributions to this and other prison threads have been immeasurable. He might as well be the OP. He was the OP of the LF thread which this was made to be a mirror of when LF was closed down.
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Jan 20, 2012 11:18
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Soulcleaver posted:HidingFromGoro, you are a hero. You have brought the truth of America's horrific medieval prison system to my eyes and those of many others. I know you're not the OP, but your contributions to this and other prison threads have been immeasurable. I know quoting without content isn't considered appropriate in this sub forum, but the above is 100% true. In large part it's been the interest and effort of HidingFromGoro that's kept these issues on the radar of these forums, and it's seriously a noble effort and I applaud him for it.
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Jan 20, 2012 16:04
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Fire posted:He might as well be the OP. He was the OP of the LF thread which this was made to be a mirror of when LF was closed down. And before that I'm reasonably sure he started the thread that got people at SA talking about the subject to begin with.
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Jan 20, 2012 20:47
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Is there a single link, an essay or article, that provides a good overview of the problems with the prison/justice system? Most people aren't willing to read tens or hundreds of articles about a topic. What's the best way to share the information in this thread to someone in the general public?
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Jan 20, 2012 22:09
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quote:Is there a single link, an essay or article, that provides a good overview of the problems with the prison/justice system? Most people aren't willing to read tens or hundreds of articles about a topic. What's the best way to share the information in this thread to someone in the general public? The only links I know of are dead right now. It's to Prison Nation: Laissz's Faire and from what I understand I think a something awful member actually put it together but I could be wrong about that. http://lf.dont-read.com/?feed=rss2&cat=9 http://lf.dont-read.com/?feed=rss2&cat=8 http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/lf.dont-read.com/%253Fp%253D51 Was really good source generally overviewing all the issues on just one webpage, it was kinda long but all on one page and you just kept scrolling down to read and really sad to see I can't find it anywhere on the net at the moment. Perhaps someone else has a working link because I'd like to get one as well to replace my old one? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just remembered I had this while searching for a link for another thread. http://www.defendingjustice.org/pdfs/factsheets/9-Fact%20Sheet%20-%20US%20vs%20World.pdf While not as information dense as the other link I was trying to get for you, it at least is a basic start to introduce someone to the issue. PTBrennan fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 21, 2012 |
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Jan 21, 2012 00:42
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mitztronic posted:Is there a single link, an essay or article, that provides a good overview of the problems with the prison/justice system? Most people aren't willing to read tens or hundreds of articles about a topic. What's the best way to share the information in this thread to someone in the general public? Gates of Injustice is an awesome and relatively concise book about the problem. But I dunno, nobody wants to read books so 
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Jan 21, 2012 21:30
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Does anybody have the link to the old LF effortpost, the one that's on that external blog/site/thing? e: Posted higher on the page, the dont-read links are down for me. BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 24, 2012 |
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Jan 24, 2012 21:27
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Dickeye posted:Does anybody have the link to the old LF effortpost, the one that's on that external blog/site/thing? Yeah, I was just looking for the offsite effortpost and it was gone.
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Jan 25, 2012 07:38
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Does anyone know who was hosting that, and if they still have the pages? I haven't had a chance to read most of the old threads.
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Jan 25, 2012 18:02
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This was posted in the Cops on the Beat thread and thought it should be posted in here as well. Man was held in solitary confinement for 2 years without seeing a judge or having a trial. http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/25/10233835-report-man-spends-2-years-in-solitary-after-dwi-arrest quote:A New Mexico man who said he was forced to pull his own tooth while in solitary confinement because he was denied access to a dentist has been awarded $22 million due to inhumane treatment by New Mexico's Dona Ana County Jail. quote:Stephen Slevin was arrested in August of 2005 for driving while intoxicated, then thrown in jail for two years, reported NBC station KOB.com Tuesday night. He was in solitary at Dona Ana County Jail for his entire sentence and basically forgotten about and never given a trial, he told KOB.com.
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Jan 25, 2012 19:15
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I believe this has been discussed before in this thread, the nature of criminal registers for public record, the only kind I know of being for sex offenders. The other day we had a woman with her daughter leave where I work because she recognized one of my co-workers as someone who was on the offender registry. My morbid curiosity eventually brought me to use what my tax dollars are paying for, but frankly, I don't feel any better after confirming what I was told. I feel bad for my co-worker, I feel as though he is being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment, where his personal information, photograph, and place of work are there for anyone to see. Why don't we have offender registries for other types of criminals, like con artists? I'd very much like to know people who have committed perjury or otherwise have been found of being criminal dishonest or abusing peoples trust in other manners, but we don't apply these conditions to those convicted. This is why I think the sex offender registry is cruel and unusual, it's specifically targeting a minority of criminal and basically wholesale destroying their privacy after they have served their sentence.
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Jan 28, 2012 00:00
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It also puts public urinators in a class together with child molesters. Even if the particular registry identifies what the crime was, the people obsessing over those registries tend not to pay attention to details like that, and you still have to look at them one by one to get that information, from what I've seen. Like you look at a map covered with dots showing where all the sex offenders live, and your blood runs cold, you're sitting there thinking "look at all those child molesters and rapists," and when you start looking at individual records maybe 1 in 4 is even anything the least bit frightening.
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Jan 28, 2012 12:21
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VideoTapir posted:It also puts public urinators in a class together with child molesters. Holy hell, that's awful. I had no idea that was a thing. American attitudes towards criminals (regardless of crime) and the purpose of the criminal justice system are stunningly regressive, almost barbaric. Sex offenders of the worst sort (rapists, pedophiles) aren't permitted the possibility of being reformed, of re-entering society without the taint of their past actions following them for life, more or less. A more enlightened view would temper the (justified) disgust at their actions with the recognition that a just society should seek to reform and reintegrate them as much as possible, and that this includes not making them pariahs for life, but I'm afraid American culture has a long way to go before that's a palatable idea. As a somewhat related aside, I think the Venture Brothers cartoon is noteworthy for having a "reformed" (through super science) pedophile as a main character in the 4th season. Pretty sure the show is unique in that respect.
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Jan 28, 2012 22:35
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Orbis Tertius posted:As a somewhat related aside, I think the Venture Brothers cartoon is noteworthy for having a "reformed" (through super science) pedophile as a main character in the 4th season. Pretty sure the show is unique in that respect. Yes and then they stick Sgt. Hatred with two young boys who clearly remember him doing inappropriate things in previous encounters, or at least Hank remembers. Although the scene where Dean is being his support, trying to talk Hatred out of giving into his urges through the bedroom door, is pretty hilarious and heartwarming in the same breath. This actually speaks a lot for how we address these problems. Hatred simply has the symptoms treated, those being his inappropriate desires towards minors, without addressing the underlying source. Since the source of the problem hasn't been treated, as soon as the symptoms return it's very easy to roll back into old habits. I think this is a big part of recidivism. I thought back the other day to how much alienation affected my behavior in public school, when considering what my co-worker has to go through. It made me feel like a piece of poo poo when people wanted nothing to do with me, and it eroded how much I actually cared about things like academic success. Instead I kept seeking ways to express the toxic emotions that were building up, experimenting with drugs, and getting into theater & drama, as well as philosophy. Where there was an absence of peer companionship, I superimposed this warped view that would probably sum up in the cliche 'gently caress this Earth'. The point I'm getting to is really repeating what HidingfromGoro has stated before, only love will defeat this machine. So if you know someone who is in the system, or who has come out of it recently and is reintegrating, give them your love and support, give them the time, write a letter or make a phone call, or pay them a visit.
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Jan 28, 2012 23:19
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A.S.H. posted:Yes and then they stick Sgt. Hatred with two young boys who clearly remember him doing inappropriate things in previous encounters, or at least Hank remembers. Nice profile picture/discussion synergy  TRIGGER WARNING I think? does that apply here? Yeah, his pedophilia is used for pure odd-situational comedy some of the time, but there's some more nuanced stuff slipped in, like the scene you mention. The other one that comes to mind is the brief scene where Hatred has 'fallen off the wagon' and is drinking Axe cologne (or the cvs equivalent), and dean's coaching him through the door again (hmm), but the source of that breakdown is that his non-deviant affection for Hank, which he's apparently taken some pride in having cultivated, isn't being reciprocated. I think that's one of the minor story arcs in season 4 - Hatred 'growing up' by transitioning from pederasty to seeking validation in a more normative sort of fatherly or guardian relationship with the venture bros, who are his main source of support when he stumbles. There's another subtext to this in his relationship with his ex-wife, who he gets back together with at the end. In early episodes and some brief statements it's suggested that he loved Princess Tiny Feet for her...small feet, that is, he wasn't relating to her sexually as a woman, but as a boy-ish stand in. But, princess tiny feet apparently has her own deviant sexual needs, and Hatred treating her like a pedophilic surrogate isn't doing it for her, so she leaves him. At the end of the series (after he's developed the more mature, non-molestation-oriented relationship with the venture bros), it seems like he's also grown up in his being able and willing to respect his wife's sexuality on her own terms and meet her needs in a more normal (relatively speaking) heterosexual relationship. Basically it's like some sort of hosed up, hilarious and sometimes touching bildungsroman-style thing. Great show. Also: what the hell possessed me to write all that? Jesus. quote:The point I'm getting to is really repeating what HidingfromGoro has stated before, only love will defeat this machine. So if you know someone who is in the system, or who has come out of it recently and is reintegrating, give them your love and support, give them the time, write a letter or make a phone call, or pay them a visit. This. Orbis Tertius fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jan 29, 2012 |
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Jan 29, 2012 00:57
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A.S.H. posted:I believe this has been discussed before in this thread, the nature of criminal registers for public record, the only kind I know of being for sex offenders. It exists for every offender- that part of the job application where it asks "have you ever been convicted of a crime?" Remember that they used to specify felonies and ask only about "in the last 5 years," then it went to 7, then to 10, and now most of them ask if it's ever happened (apparently meaning your entire life). If this were an econ thread I guess that would be called "labor market flexibility;" but even if it somehow helps small-business job-creators save money, it still really hurts offenders who've learned their lesson and want to move on with their lives- people like you and me.
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Jan 29, 2012 06:19
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HidingFromGoro posted:It exists for every offender- that part of the job application where it asks "have you ever been convicted of a crime?" Remember that they used to specify felonies and ask only about "in the last 5 years," then it went to 7, then to 10, and now most of them ask if it's ever happened (apparently meaning your entire life). Yes, but at least it isn't out there for the whole world to see. Even worse when it is incorrect. I know at least one person on the California sex offender registry who has no business being there. I got his case dismissed, but getting him off the registry is almost impossible. Also, sex offender registry shows up on the first part of the MDT (by the warrants or parole status generally), so any cop who stops you knows immediately, unlike the convictions which you generally have to actually look at. I don't disagree that you shouldn't have to list felonies on job apps unless they're specifically related (DUI for driving jobs, fraud for banks and such). The searches also need to be better regulated. There are thousands of people who show up on federal background checks (not just the lovely private ones) as convicted when cases were dismissed or even never filed. nm fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jan 29, 2012 |
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Jan 29, 2012 07:37
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PTBrennan posted:I like it. http://www.prepaidtraffictickets.com/how-it-works.php Seriously. Pre-paid fines; An actual thing.
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Jan 29, 2012 10:27
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Look at the prices on the main page; that's actually a form of insurance or gambling.
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Jan 29, 2012 10:51
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Human Rights Watch: Number of Aging Prisoners Soaring,Corrections Officials Ill-Prepared to Run Geriatric Facilities (110-page PDF)quote:Prisons were never designed to be geriatric facilities. Yet US corrections officials now operate old age homes behind bars.  
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Jan 29, 2012 16:13
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How much are you willing to bet that private prisons have almost no aging prisoners to take care of by dumping them off onto state prisons?
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Jan 29, 2012 16:29
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nm posted:
That's how it is in my country. It's very few jobs that requires you to show a criminal record (mostly school or security job related) and an employer can only see the parts of it that are specifically related to that job. Otherwise it's illegal for an employer to demand that he should see your criminal record.
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Jan 29, 2012 16:40
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Alhazred posted:That's how it is in my country. It's very few jobs that requires you to show a criminal record (mostly school or security job related) and an employer can only see the parts of it that are specifically related to that job. Otherwise it's illegal for an employer to demand that he should see your criminal record. There are many here in America who would say that your country is less free than ours, on account of that policy. Decipher that paradox, and you will learn a lot about America.
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Jan 30, 2012 02:57
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Doesn't it make sense to ask about criminal records for those who are going to be, say, working with children or the eldery/sick people, though? Granted I suppose it's too much to hope that a child rapist would voluntarily report themselves as such.....
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Jan 30, 2012 04:57
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Astrofig posted:Doesn't it make sense to ask about criminal records for those who are going to be, say, working with children or the eldery/sick people, though?
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Jan 30, 2012 05:01
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Astrofig posted:Doesn't it make sense to ask about criminal records for those who are going to be, say, working with children or the eldery/sick people, though? That's why quote:It's very few jobs that requires you to show a criminal record (mostly school or security job related) and an employer can only see the parts of it that are specifically related to that job. You don't want the guy who jacked it in a playground full of kids working in an elementary school, but does it matter if someone cheated on their taxes or sold some pot if they want to change bedpans? When you apply for a security clearance, they are really picky about criminal records. Having one makes it tougher to get a clearance (you'd better be able to explain yourself and convince them it won't happen again), and if you try and hide anything (and fail, I guess) it's impossible to get it. The reason I heard for this is they don't want anyone to be able to blackmail you with something you did in the past (though it still leaves the possibility of something for which you were never caught). Ironically, the obsession with criminal records and the consequences of having one...the identification forever of someone as a "felon" before anything else...makes it easier to blackmail people. In a country where your criminal record is sealed once you're done with your sentence, and where having a criminal record doesn't carry the same stigma...if there are no consequences to people finding out about your record, blackmail is a lot harder. VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jan 30, 2012 |
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Jan 30, 2012 05:03
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Astrofig posted:Doesn't it make sense to ask about criminal records for those who are going to be, say, working with children or the eldery/sick people, though? Yes, but in those cases asking the person for a copy of their police clearance makes much more sense than having a public shame list. Particularly considering that the absolute vast majority of pedophilia is familial or friend-of-family type stuff, not random creeper leaping out of the bushes sort of nonsense.
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Jan 30, 2012 05:03
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A.S.H. posted:Why don't we have offender registries for other types of criminals, like con artists? I'd very much like to know people who have committed perjury or otherwise have been found of being criminal dishonest or abusing peoples trust in other manners, but we don't apply these conditions to those convicted. Methamphetamine Offender Registry Act - at the moment, accessable only by pharmacists.
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Jan 30, 2012 19:58
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