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Has anyone got any feedback on these guys... http://www.sitstay.com/dog/supplies/servlet/product_10001_10001_57310_-1_Calming+Cap_13280_13330_ I just found out about them and am curious as to experiences you may have had. I'm slowing starting training with my reactive dog and am wondering if perhaps this will be a good tool or not.
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Jan 28, 2012 05:28
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Okay, how do I train Feldman to not step back into his own poo? It's bad enough that the giardia is making it all liquidy. I don't want to keep cleaning out of his feet. 
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Jan 28, 2012 07:08
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TyTy working on begging: http://twitpic.com/8cmlgh I'm trying to decide whether I want her to beg or to do a hands up thingy. I could maybe teach on now and the other later...
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Jan 28, 2012 10:02
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Riiseli posted:TyTy working on begging: http://twitpic.com/8cmlgh Looks like she's having convulsions in some of her attempts, haha.
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Jan 28, 2012 10:12
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Riiseli posted:TyTy working on begging: http://twitpic.com/8cmlgh Ha, that's adorable. I'm surprised TyTy can do a full stand up but can't seem to hold a regular beg (or her balance). Unless she can and is just putting her paws back down because you are clicking right away. I dunno, I'm used to Psyche sitting in a beg position for fun. I also love the enthusiastic 'slap the floor' down.
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Jan 28, 2012 15:31
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Kiri koli posted:Ha, that's adorable. I'm surprised TyTy can do a full stand up but can't seem to hold a regular beg (or her balance). Unless she can and is just putting her paws back down because you are clicking right away. I dunno, I'm used to Psyche sitting in a beg position for fun.
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Jan 28, 2012 16:38
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I think the beg position (or penguin, as a friend calls it) requires more core muscles, whereas the balancing on two legs (my "be people") utilizes a bit of core, as well as thigh, lower back & tail muscles -- it's a bit easier on them. I was trying to teach Cohen to hug a stuffed toy in beg position, but then I got lazy. I think I want to get unlazy and try it again.
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Jan 28, 2012 16:44
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Yikes! Signs of aggression! So, in addition to a flyball class, we are taking a CGC class, and this was the third session. Up to now Pongo has been a star pupil. Today he lost it. He lunged aggressively at the next dog over, usually a friend of his, however, this dog got hit by a car, was absent the last two weeks, and came in today with a cast on his leg. Pongo acted like he wanted to attack him. Failing that, he attacked my boot, and also grabbed the pants leg of his trainer. We would get him settled down, then he'd go into attack again. There is another dog in the class who behaved aggressively toward Pongo the first time they saw each other, and we keep them far apart, but that dog also had problems with the one in the cast. However, not as many problems as Pongo. The other thing was there are a couple of very small dogs in the class, and as soon as one of them starting looking a bit worried about Pongo's outbursts, Pongo decided to go for him, too. All in all, a really bad class. I have no idea what was going on, but I would really like to get rid of this aggression thing. What I did was whenever he displayed this behavior I walked him to a corner of the classroom where he couldn't see any other dogs, and I did this over and over, and the trainer said this was the best thing to do. Couldn't get him to focus on me until I did that. I spent 3/4 of the class in the corner with my dog. But he has never done anything like this before. Please tell me this is not a trend, and any hints on how to stop it (short of going all Cesar Milan on him) would be appreciated.
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Jan 28, 2012 22:41
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Rhymes With Clue posted:I spent 3/4 of the class in the corner with my dog. Hey, hiding in the corner with crazy dog buddy! First step is to identify the cause. How does Pongo do with small animals like cats or squirrels? This could be a prey drive issue, which can extend to going after animals that are injured. The attacking you and the trainer sounds to me like redirecting. You can tell the difference if the dog suddenly goes for something that comes into his vision, does a sudden snap, and then shows no more interest as long as the target is not longer between him and what he was going for. I assume he was leashed during this? I have seen my dog exhibit prey drive toward squirrels at the height of her leash reactivity and she went way overboard and redirected onto her leash. She is otherwise not super bothered by squirrels. If this is the first signs of reactivity you have seen and you see it again in the context of nothing that could be prey (or if you just want to check anyway) you should consider seeing a vet to rule out medical issues. You should also consider what body language you observed that day in your dog and the others. What started the incident? Was the injured dog acting strange or aggressive (seeing as another dog had a problem as well, maybe he was giving off strange signals)? How far away were the two dogs when it started? The probable reason that Pongo kept behaving aggressively after you calmed him down is because you brought him back too close to the other dog. When being reactive, dogs have a threshold, which can involve proximity. You want to stay under threshold and that means giving your dog enough distance. If this is a prey drive issue, then you're going to want to stay away from that dog and work on prey drive things. I find the premack principle very helpful for prey drive stuff. Hopefully your trainer can help as well. If Pongo starts being reactive in general, it's definitely vet time and you'll need to try and identify his triggers and start counter-conditioning and desensitization. If you think he's developing general dog reactivity, I can point you in the direction of a lot of techniques and tools that can help.
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Jan 28, 2012 23:23
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UUUGH okay seriously what do I do about pissing on dog beds. I got her disgusting laundry all cleanified today (like $8) so I was happy once I got back. She got a bath too, after sleeping in not-so-clean-peed-on-stuff. Set down 2 dog beds maybe 3-4 feet away from each other and left to do stuff. Got back, learned that she pissed in the middle of her normal bed (went out half an hour ago) which I know she actively seeks out to pee on... but she likes to SLEEP on it too. WTF DOG. My mom ended up yelling at her, instead of using the other clean dog bed, she just layed on the edge of the soiled dog bed. I imagine there was some serious 'learn to sleep in dirty bedding because i have no other choice' thing going on in her past. Maybe? If she keeps peeing on that main bed, I thought maybe I could use it as a pee spot but she...really really likes sleeping on it. What do I do? I dont have the money to constantly wash/dry and I run out of natures miracle so so fast. Shes got several other issues of peeing on things, -trying to bar her from the couch now because shes gone on all the cushions, and the floor...but floor is so much easier to clean than other stuff.  She gets praise and treats when she goes outside. She is taken out pretty often - not enough, but we just dont have the time to do it every hour. Vet thinks it is behavioral. And we don't pay a lot of attention even when tethering, she has gone right next to people...she just doesn't give a lot of warning. But Id really love to figure out the not piss on bed thing. I really dont want her to sleep on hardwood floor, gets pretty chilly too.e: should I just throw out that main dog bed that she loves peeing on? She'll probably pick another thing as a replacement...
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Jan 29, 2012 02:06
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Malalol posted:UUUGH okay seriously what do I do about pissing on dog beds.
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Jan 29, 2012 02:34
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There are no favourite pee spots, she goes at random it seems...unless its on a comfy bed type thing that she sleeps on. I have 1 or 2 wee wee pad things around the house, but she has never gone on them, either by taking her to it or using pee attractant and real pee. My next plan is to bring the pads outside near where she pees and maybe something will click if she ends up peeing on those.
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Jan 29, 2012 02:41
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Malalol posted:UUUGH okay seriously what do I do about pissing on dog beds. I got her disgusting laundry all cleanified today (like $8) so I was happy once I got back. She got a bath too, after sleeping in not-so-clean-peed-on-stuff. Set down 2 dog beds maybe 3-4 feet away from each other and left to do stuff. Got back, learned that she pissed in the middle of her normal bed (went out half an hour ago) which I know she actively seeks out to pee on... but she likes to SLEEP on it too. WTF DOG. My mom ended up yelling at her, instead of using the other clean dog bed, she just layed on the edge of the soiled dog bed. You've ixnayed this in the past, but you really need to step up your management. Rewarding for peeing outdoors only goes so far when she's also peeing unrestrained indoors. I think you've essentially said that your family isn't interested in putting in the requisite effort to do this properly -- unfortunately I don't think there's any other successful option. You need to keep her crated when she's not got 100% of your attention, or gated off in an x-pen. The huge amount of work required in breaking this habit pays off in the long run. Puppy prison now, and free rein once she proves herself reliable. I don't consider a dog housebroken until they've gone a month without an accident (and even then environmental issues might encourage a wayward "accident" and set you back again). That means that the dog is safely secured in an area where I'm confident it won't soil whenever I'm not around. You'll have to work a bit harder, as she will apparently pee everywhere, but the rule set is the same. So, crate, x-pen, hourly pee breaks, tethering, effusive praise and treats for going outside, and every accident indoors is the fault of the person who was supposed to be watching her. Someone asked something similar either on this page or the one previous - scroll up and take a look.
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Jan 29, 2012 02:48
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a life less posted:You've ixnayed this in the past, but you really need to step up your management. Rewarding for peeing outdoors only goes so far when she's also peeing unrestrained indoors. I think you've essentially said that your family isn't interested in putting in the requisite effort to do this properly -- unfortunately I don't think there's any other successful option. You need to keep her crated when she's not got 100% of your attention, or gated off in an x-pen. The huge amount of work required in breaking this habit pays off in the long run. Puppy prison now, and free rein once she proves herself reliable. Yo I followed this, and it really works. Feldman used to pee on EVERYTHING. The floor, the rug, the couch, you name it! I tether him when I'm inside, I take him outside every hour, I click treat and praise when he pees outside. It's been 3 weeks since his last pee inside! It's a lot of effort, but it does really work. The last accident he had was a poo, and that was just because of his giardia.
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Jan 29, 2012 02:52
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Malalol posted:There are no favourite pee spots, she goes at random it seems...unless its on a comfy bed type thing that she sleeps on. I have 1 or 2 wee wee pad things around the house, but she has never gone on them, either by taking her to it or using pee attractant and real pee.
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Jan 29, 2012 03:02
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a life less posted:So, crate, x-pen, hourly pee breaks, tethering, effusive praise and treats for going outside, and every accident indoors is the fault of the person who was supposed to be watching her. I think its too much for people to do :\ I hate to say it because its not overly difficult and I feel like Im giving a bunch of BS excuses, but none of it is something people agreed to before getting the dog (who was 'housebroken' in her description). They'd rather not have her than work with it, or have a dog that doesnt have this issue. I cannot crate her completely because she barks without stop, I am working on that too slowly, but we have other tenants living here that will complain, people napping, etc. The pen sounds like a lot better idea and Ill bring up everything again to see if my family can work with this. I could easily pick one up from work. For the crating suggestion, she WILL go in the crate. Does that mess things up if I hypothetically go that route? I feel like Im not teaching anything positive by doing this. Its a huge crate for her but Ive divided it so that she can just turn around. So she doesnt exactly have a corner to go to, she is literally going and then laying in it. quote:Have you tried first putting a pad on her bed and then removing the bed from underneath?
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Jan 29, 2012 03:21
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Hey a life less, question for you. Those 'recommended reading' books in the first post, is there an online library of that information? I can't afford to buy them, but I want to read them.
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Jan 29, 2012 07:22
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Bash Ironfist posted:Hey a life less, question for you. Those 'recommended reading' books in the first post, is there an online library of that information? I can't afford to buy them, but I want to read them. And having thought of this I actually feel quite lazy every time I use a crate for housebreaking purposes. I know this is not just me either. Riiseli fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Jan 29, 2012 |
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Jan 29, 2012 08:28
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Riiseli posted:Have you tried your public library? They could have some and even if they don't I'd guess most will take suggestions. They won't buy all the books, but one or two might actually happen. I haven't yet, the library is kind of far from me. But I'll go in on monday, see if they have any of them! Hopefully they do, it's a huge rear end library.
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Jan 29, 2012 08:39
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Bash Ironfist posted:I haven't yet, the library is kind of far from me. But I'll go in on monday, see if they have any of them! Hopefully they do, it's a huge rear end library.
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Jan 29, 2012 09:08
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Riiseli posted:If the library is far away check their online catalog first? No need to make a trip for nothing. That was a good idea. Turns out the library has none of those books.  I'll have to save up and get 'em eventually.
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Jan 29, 2012 20:00
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Bash Ironfist posted:That was a good idea. Turns out the library has none of those books.
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Jan 29, 2012 20:27
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Kiri koli posted:How does Pongo do with small animals like cats or squirrels? This could be a prey drive issue, which can extend to going after animals that are injured. The attacking you and the trainer sounds to me like redirecting. You can tell the difference if the dog suddenly goes for something that comes into his vision, does a sudden snap, and then shows no more interest as long as the target is not longer between him and what he was going for. I assume he was leashed during this? I have seen my dog exhibit prey drive toward squirrels at the height of her leash reactivity and she went way overboard and redirected onto her leash. She is otherwise not super bothered by squirrels. The first time he went for the dog it caught me off guard, but the other times it happened were: He knocked his ball out of his reach (he was leashed) and it rolled over to where the other dog could get it, and the other dog jumped on it. The other dog looked at him and whined. The other dog got a treat from his owner. The other dog lunged at a third dog who was passing by (this was the "out for a walk" section of the CGC test--not the test, this is a class geared toward passing the test). He does have some prey drive--he lives with cats, but he will chase them out in the yard. Well, he will chase them in the house. They will also chase him. He loves that--he thinks they're playing with him. But yeah, on walks he has been known to suddenly take off after a squirrel or a bunny. He now knows he can't do that, but he wants to. He will also go after a ball, although if there's another dog to play with he prefers that. Best of all: another dog with a ball. It's hard to tell the line between fighting and play, because he has never minded playing kinda rough, and he comes out of play covered with the slobber of other dogs who've been mouthing him. So for me the line is when his hackles go up, because that usually means he's worried. In the class, that didn't happen. quote:If this is the first signs of reactivity you have seen and you see it again in the context of nothing that could be prey (or if you just want to check anyway) you should consider seeing a vet to rule out medical issues. quote:How far away were the two dogs when it started? The probable reason that Pongo kept behaving aggressively after you calmed him down is because you brought him back too close to the other dog. They were about six feet apart, and each on five-foot leashes. I did move him back, but it's not that big a classroom. He's got to learn to calm down at a closer range. I know there's a lot of reactive dog things in this thread, but the thread is so BIG. It needs an index!
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Jan 29, 2012 21:35
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Riiseli posted:If you make a visit, do request they get one or two. You might want to check their website too. Maybe you could even e-mail them a request with proper links and all, so they can see some reviews of the books or something. I'll probably do that. My mom is being nice and is going to let me use her credit card on tuesday to buy like two books. So I'll at least have a couple! The others I'll see if the library will order them. Training question: I've been trying to teach Feldman to sit. He won't do it when I try to get him to, but he'll randomly do it during the day. I try to praise him when I see him do it, but sometimes he sits when I'm trying to walk him. Should I praise him for it then? I mean, he's sitting, but not when he should.
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Jan 29, 2012 22:07
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Rhymes With Clue posted:The first time he went for the dog it caught me off guard, but the other times it happened were: He knocked his ball out of his reach (he was leashed) and it rolled over to where the other dog could get it, and the other dog jumped on it. The other dog looked at him and whined. The other dog got a treat from his owner. The other dog lunged at a third dog who was passing by (this was the "out for a walk" section of the CGC test--not the test, this is a class geared toward passing the test). Hm, well, obviously I wasn't there, so it's really hard to tell, but this makes me think that the other dog was giving off some stress signals and that just made Pongo stressed out himself. It doesn't sound like Pongo has a super strong prey drive (and honestly, going after wounded prey is not terribly strong in dogs like it is in wolves). Dogs can definitely pick up on the stress of others and wounded dog was probably stressed out and it made Pongo antsy. This actually happened to us last week. We were paired to work with a new dog who was so stressed he spent most of the session screaming. It really unnerved my dog and even though the two dogs never saw each other (we worked behind barriers the whole time), my dog had a TON of trouble calming down and wasn't able to do as much as usual. quote:It's hard to tell the line between fighting and play, because he has never minded playing kinda rough, and he comes out of play covered with the slobber of other dogs who've been mouthing him. So for me the line is when his hackles go up, because that usually means he's worried. In the class, that didn't happen. With dogs (and with people to a lesser extent) it's best to think of excitement, happiness, and fear not as separate, but as a spectrum. You know how you can sometimes get so excited about something, anticipate it so much, that you get your adrenaline going and suddenly you're scared to death? I think this happens to dogs a ton during play and other activities. They are excited and happy, but suddenly it's just a little too much excitement and it starts to become fear and maybe they start fighting or run away or whatever. That's why it's so hard for people to tell what's going on with their dogs, if they're just excited and playing or if they are being reactive. The way to deal with this is to just break up play every once in a while so the dog has a chance to come down a bit. Anyway, if Pongo is only having trouble with that one dog, then you're going to want to keep your distance and counter-condition Pongo and practice exercises where he focuses on you on cue. The redirecting indicates that Pongo was pretty loving scared (as long as he generally has a decent bite inhibition) because usually dogs go through many stages of growling, air snapping, etc before they actually need to connect with something. I know you want to be in that class and want Pongo to just get over it, but if he gets worse and the proximity is too close, you're going to need to find a way to lessen the stress on him, even if it means leaving the class. Believe me, you do not want to push Pongo and have him develop a general reactivity toward all dogs. It is MUCH harder to bring a dog back once they learn that 1) strangers are scary and 2) a fear reaction gets them what they want (the stressor moves away or Pongo gets to move away). Keep in mind your own reactions (if you start tensing up when you see that dog or whatever, he will pick up on it) and also the involvement of the leash. Leash reactivity is probably the most common and just because Pongo is good with other dogs off-leash doesn't mean he won't become reactive to them on-leash.
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Jan 29, 2012 22:46
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Bash Ironfist posted:I've been trying to teach Feldman to sit. He won't do it when I try to get him to, but he'll randomly do it during the day. I try to praise him when I see him do it, but sometimes he sits when I'm trying to walk him. Should I praise him for it then? I mean, he's sitting, but not when he should. If Feldman tries to help you with the cookie delivery, it's a good time for a bit of It's Yer Choice. The cookie just goes a bit further away if he tries to go for it before it's time. Dogs get this pretty quickly.
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Jan 30, 2012 08:32
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Kiri koli posted:I know you want to be in that class and want Pongo to just get over it, but if he gets worse and the proximity is too close, you're going to need to find a way to lessen the stress on him, even if it means leaving the class. Believe me, you do not want to push Pongo and have him develop a general reactivity toward all dogs. It is MUCH harder to bring a dog back once they learn that 1) strangers are scary and 2) a fear reaction gets them what they want (the stressor moves away or Pongo gets to move away). Keep in mind your own reactions (if you start tensing up when you see that dog or whatever, he will pick up on it) and also the involvement of the leash. Leash reactivity is probably the most common and just because Pongo is good with other dogs off-leash doesn't mean he won't become reactive to them on-leash. I do think it was more that dog's problem than Pongo's because we went to his flyball class the next day and he was fine in that class, and there are some very high-strung dogs in that class! But I need to work on my attitude. I know this from training horses (years ago), but it keeps slipping out of my conscious mind.
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Jan 30, 2012 10:19
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Rhymes With Clue posted:I think you have hit on something here. I am trying to be a better trainer, but I really kind of suck at it in a lot of ways--I am hesitant, if I'm using a clicker I get rattled and try to click the treat and feed Pongo the clicker...or I forget to click, or click late...then I drop the leash when I'm trying to trade hands. And if I think something is too hard for Pongo, then he can't do it. Yet his trainer will ask him for a behavior and get it right off, because she (or he, in the case of his flyball class) has a different mindset. Yeah, I had the same problem when I first started using the clicker. I would get flustered and start panicking that I wasn't doing things right and drop things. So I decided to just do some exercises at home where I made myself relax, use the clicker, and then take my time getting the treat. Not a long time, but just enough so that I could do it calmly. I also just practiced walking around the yard and stopping randomly. My dog is supposed to sit when I stop, so I took that opportunity to practice feeding her. She actually walks on my left side, I hold the clicker in my left hand (with the leash slack) and feed her with my right. Which is really stupid because she's a short dog and it's my far hand, but it felt much more natural at the beginning (I'm extremely right handed) and I just practiced my rear end off until it worked. So yeah, don't be afraid to practice exercises yourself. Your dog will be happy to do some easy tricks for you. Also, don't stress if Pongo can't do something! Training is supposed to be a fun game, not a chore. If you ask for something and Pongo can't do it, oops, that's okay! Just reset and try again.
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Jan 30, 2012 14:50
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You could always try using a marker word (or a noise made with your mouth) rather than a clicker. I'm pretty uncoordinated so I don't love using the clicker outside (it's definitely fun trying to hold two dog leashes, treats and a clicker!), so each dog has a marker word I use, delivered loudly and enthusiastically. Lola responds to it pretty well 
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Jan 30, 2012 15:42
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Rhymes With Clue posted:It's hard to tell the line between fighting and play, because he has never minded playing kinda rough, and he comes out of play covered with the slobber of other dogs who've been mouthing him. So for me the line is when his hackles go up, because that usually means he's worried. This is something I've been working on a lot with Neige (along with the "don't get stressed Neige will get stressed you numbskull" mantra I recite). Because of the chompface incident of October, I scrutinize all of Neige's play activities with other dogs, and a bunch of things stand out to me regarding play: bouncy, ineffective movements (even if it looks like pouncing) waaaay exaggerated "I'm gonna murder you" faces noise! Lots of growly sounds is a good thing! Real bite incidents don't have much in the way of sound prior to, so if you're hearing hella RRRRrrrrrRRRRrrrr, that's a good sign. the dog getting rolled is taking a shoulder (seriously this used to freak me out a lot until I noticed that Neige was doing it on purpose) role reversals are taking place (first I chase, then you chase. First I mouth, then you mouth. We are taking turns, yaaay) pawing If I'm seeing those things - and reminding myself that I am not her mother and do not need to constantly intervene - I can generally feel pretty okay about Neige's interactions, even if she's not always 100% comfortable. She's still a bit of a wuss with bigger dogs, but we're working on that.
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Jan 30, 2012 19:05
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We have a 6 year old lab/pointer, Tsunami, who used to love fetching. She wouldn't necessarily retrieve, but she would at least sprint for that ball to beat our now deceased dog. Now for 4 months we've had a 6 month old lab/terrier, Thor, who likes to chase the ball, but will jump up at her face when she has the ball, and so now she doesn't even try and run for it anymore and is just all around timid and slow now, even when Thor is away. We tried playing fetch in our office yesterday and she walked quickly after it, and that's the most she's done with the ball since she stopped playing fetch. She will still happily sprint after any animals in the backyard, food, or when we use a laser pointer (but that kind of drives her nuts because she can never catch it and "win" so I don't do it often), so it's not like she's in pain or anything. From what I've read, I'm thinking of trying to use her prey drive or food obsession (and not making it stronger), but I wouldn't know what exercises/games would work for that. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. 
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Jan 30, 2012 21:29
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Megera posted:We have a 6 year old lab/pointer, Tsunami, who used to love fetching. She wouldn't necessarily retrieve, but she would at least sprint for that ball to beat our now deceased dog. maybe teach her to put stuff in your hand for a super awesome treat, so fetch is about giving you the item instead of getting it.
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Jan 30, 2012 22:04
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Ok I feel bad because I have like 750 posts I haven't read in this thread and I need to catch up, but I have a question/rant. I'm in an ethology class this semester and it's very interesting. I was super excited to get into it and I was looking forward to all the awesome animal behavior stuff we would learn. Today the professor started talking about dog training though, and he's a raving Cesar Milan fanboy We haven't gotten to the section where we really cover animal learning and everything, but he used the example of a dog to talk about tactile releasers. He said there was this family that had an extremeley aggressive doberman which would bite everyone in the family because it thought it was the alpha. The trainer had the family, one at a time (starting with the husband because he was the most dominant) come in and hold the dog down bodily and squeeze it's throat until it stopped being aggressive. Professor said the dog was perfectly behaved after that and the children could even pull its tail and everything without any bad behavior. He held this up as a shining example of dog training to the class and told them all that Cesar Milan is the one dog trainer he knows of who really has it right and that it is amazing since he's had no formal education. This didn't sit right with me, obviously, but I didn't want to call shenanigans on a professor who probably has a whole lot more studies and research and credibility to back him up than I had at the top of my head right then. So after class I talked with him for a minute and asked about his views on dog training, since it is a topic that interests me and that I had done a lot of reading on. I told him everything I had read so far had pointed towards positive reinforcement being the preferred method of training nowadays. He basically said that positive reinforcement was because of PETA and "humane societies" and that it doesn't work, people are just squeamish about negative reinforcement. His logic was that if you watch a wolf pack or lion colony the parents physically punish the cubs when they misbehave. He also added that of course doesn't mean you are supposed to beat animals but negative reinforcement isn't a bad thing. Other things he mentioned were that "you can't train an aggressive dog with positive reinforcement" and "the only reason that trainer died at sea world 2 years ago was because they tried to use positive reinforcement." Honestly this all came as a huge shock to me, everything he has said in class leading up to this seemed to make sense and be well sourced (it was all about wild animals though, no domestic ones really). I get the feeling that he may just not be up to date on the literature of why positive reinforcement is the "better" way to train. I'm planning on talking with him again, because I don't want to just sit there and meekly take notes on why Cesar Milan is the only dog trainer worth listening to. I'm planning on linking him the video of Sophia Yin desensitizing the Jack Russell to nail clipping to show that positive reinforcement does indeed work on aggressive animals. I'm also going to send him the TED talk Ian Dunbar does. Other than that, are there any scientific studies on the subject I could use to present my case? I'd really appreciate any help because I just got flustered when he shot all my questions down and implied I was a PETA activist.
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Jan 30, 2012 23:11
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Cassiope posted:Ok I feel bad because I have like 750 posts I haven't read in this thread and I need to catch up, but I have a question/rant. Okay, not to be an rear end, but he's a professor, presumably with tenure. Possibly an ancient old fart. You could send him a million things like that and he might not give a single crap and I doubt anyone else is going to call him out on it. So long as that's the case, you will be the crazy PETA lady or w/e. Its great that you are passionate about this, but you are more likely to introduce strain into your professor student relationship than this is worth.
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Jan 30, 2012 23:18
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Cassiope posted:Other than that, are there any scientific studies on the subject I could use to present my case? I'd really appreciate any help because I just got flustered when he shot all my questions down and implied I was a PETA activist. The best resource I know of is Dr. Jim Ha who is a CAAB and a professor of Animal Behavior at University of Washington. He posts a lot on the Companion Animal Solutions blog about animal behavior. It also might be worthwhile to join IAABC or get access to their newsletters. Joining as a supporting member is $50, but you get access to CAAB research and discussions. Good luck; this is going to be interesting to watch play out.
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Jan 30, 2012 23:22
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Your professor sounds like a jerk. Also that quote made me imagine someone trying to alpha roll an orca. Wanna see that.
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Jan 30, 2012 23:23
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Bash Ironfist posted:Your professor sounds like a jerk. Also that quote made me imagine someone trying to alpha roll an orca. Wanna see that. That's what I told my boyfriend when I called him to complain about the professor. I was under the impression positive reinforcement works because even though you can hit your dog, you try that poo poo with a grizzly or an orca and they will laugh at you then eat you. Edit: Honestly the professor isn't a jackass. I think he just has a lot more experience analyzing the behavior of wild animals, and hasn't kept up with the literature on dog training. I am probably not the most knowledgeable representative for positive reinforcement but I intend to at least try. He seems reasonable and I'm not going to be rude about any of this. Worst case scenario he convinces me dominance theory is the way to go and I start alpha rolling Moxie (she would just roll over for belly rubs) Cassiope fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jan 30, 2012 |
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Jan 30, 2012 23:27
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Your professor sounds like someone who 1) knows nothing about dogs and 2) has never seen an aggressive dog (I volunteer mine...he can try to hold her down and get his face eaten), but since he knows about wild animals and saw some poo poo on tv, he must know everything!!! While it is harmful for him to be spreading that poo poo, if it isn't a huge part of the class I would let it go. If he does spend a lot of time on it, then you could TRY presenting him with a list of animal behaviorists that support positive reinforcement (hint: all of them) and, if he pushes the issue, present it to his department head or whatever. While he can rant for a lecture or two, full on presenting Milan as science (I assume it's a science class) is bullshit. Probably nothing will change though, no matter what you do. Also, seriously, how do you punish an orca? Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 30, 2012 |
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Jan 30, 2012 23:35
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Lasso it with a choke chain? Or use a crane to pick it up and alpha roll it?
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Jan 30, 2012 23:38
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Fraction posted:Lasso it with a choke chain? Or use a crane to pick it up and alpha roll it? I'm pretty sure you punish it by not letting it eat you. Do vet hospitals usually have behavourists/trainers on staff? I'm looking for a place to do some interning or something, and there's a few animal hospitals near me. There's also a petco, but I'd rather avoid that. I just want to learn to be a dog trainer
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Jan 30, 2012 23:41
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