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david carmichael posted:i hope the dave schultz invitational is full of cheating and kimuras Kimura would be mark schultz. The dave schultz invitational would be cheating and headlocks. Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6hrouH3iWU&hd=1
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Jan 30, 2012 03:58
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whatever the gently caress that guy does to get underneath + behind that guy at 2:21 is phenomenal
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Jan 30, 2012 05:23
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Christ, I never get this impressed when I watch other grappling sports. The moves on some of these wrestlers is just completely incredible.
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Jan 30, 2012 10:39
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david carmichael posted:whatever the gently caress that guy does to get underneath + behind that guy at 2:21 is phenomenal Haha I've actually been teaching this to our wrestlers for awhile, it looks cool but it's not really very hard. I feel like it's the 'cleanest' gameplan for wrestlers in submission grappling events: Just shoot, look for double underhooks, shuck their arm off as soon as it touches your shoulder, then use your waist grip to turn the corner. We actually have them finish a bit differently though: instead of getting a waist grip once they're behind the guy, we tell them to get an over/under and try to dive over his shoulder. This usually leaves them in good position to play for a quick RNC.
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Jan 30, 2012 23:04
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Please enjoy this video of Nam Phan pulling mount on one of Eddie Bravo's guys in a grappling tourney and almost instantly getting submitted. Oh Nam  If you scroll down you can see a video of the same guy tapping someone out with a twister, also something about chemtrails.
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Jan 31, 2012 01:09
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fatherdog posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6hrouH3iWU&hd=1 drat. What impresses me the most is their incredible ability to keep someone on their back from any position when they first secure it.
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Jan 31, 2012 01:45
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That was an amazing video. I'm with you bohemian nights, I think wrestling highlight vids are my favourite. Is a lot of that improvisation and just doing anything to win?
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Jan 31, 2012 03:46
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wrestling matches are also only 6-8 minutes (right?)So you have less time to get your win and more incentive to go balls out because you're basically trying to dump as much stored energy as possible to get the win. Compare that to a 20 minute match where that pace is not sustainable and you have to do more modulating. There are also rule differences that lead to more dynamic stuff in wrestling matches versus sub grappling Wrestling still kicks rear end and has been under appreciated for way too long. That foot sweep at 1:31 is incredible.
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Jan 31, 2012 04:29
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So I've entered my first submission grappling tournament for this weekend, after previously competed in two gi tournys. I have six days to learn what the hell is going on in nogi, how to defend toeholds and kneebars, and most importantly, how to avoid being Twister'd. Any tips for transitioning from solely gi to nogi? The comp isn't IBJJF rules either, if it goes five minutes the ref just awards to the most active fighter, so no hanging out in side control watching the minutes melt away for this guy.
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Jan 31, 2012 11:32
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Stuck in Elevator posted:So I've entered my first submission grappling tournament for this weekend, after previously competed in two gi tournys. I have six days to learn what the hell is going on in nogi, how to defend toeholds and kneebars, and most importantly, how to avoid being Twister'd. E: Sparring no gi with guys who only have done gi is the greatest. Leg locks are god mode. widunder fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Jan 31, 2012 |
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Jan 31, 2012 12:37
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When I have a guys back and I'm going for the blood choke or air choke, are they both called a rear naked choke? How would I differentiate between them by name? (in english, I don't care about memorizing the japanese names at the moment)
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Jan 31, 2012 13:33
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Nierbo posted:When I have a guys back and I'm going for the blood choke or air choke, are they both called a rear naked choke? How would I differentiate between them by name? (in english, I don't care about memorizing the japanese names at the moment) On a sidenote about the air/blood choke thing, almost all of the chokes you will do are blood chokes including the RNC with the gable grip. Air chokes don't really shut off the air supply unless you use enough force that you risk damaging his windpipe or larynx (and because it takes a good amount of time for his body to use up the oxygen in his blood it also takes awhile), so basically unless you're willing to risk hurting someone you're hoping he taps to pain. For blood chokes to work it's only necessary to reduce the flow of a carotid artery on one side, and that's in reality what happens when a guy goes to sleep with a gable grip. Dante fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jan 31, 2012 |
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Jan 31, 2012 14:31
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Yeah I just call the first one the "nice" RNC and the second one the "not-so-nice" one since half the time it seems like dudes just end up crushing your trachea.
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Jan 31, 2012 15:23
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Well the IBJJF has loving done it now, they've updated their already dumb ruleset on reaping to basically ban any berimbolo and DLR sweep that puts inward pressure on the knee. They also of course did this right before the euros so a bunch of people didn't know and got DQ'ed. I don't really have any faith that this is done to protect the fighters, this is probably just another step to "clean it up" for the olympics where this horrible banning poo poo will just continue to judo-esque levels. Hillary Williams (who aside from being a good competitor and licensed IBJJF referee doesn't have any more connection as far as I know) is making some horrible defenses of these rules too over on the underground which just makes me worry more that this is what they're really thinking behind the scenes:quote:Jiu Jitsu historically has NEVER emphasized leg attacks. So it's not in the sport. And in congruency with rules already in motion that do not allow inward pressure on the knee, something else that does it cannot be allowed. quote:I think it's important to keep in mind here that berimbolo is quite new, I would bet that a vast minority of schools play and/or teach it. All the other students who are unaware of and not exposed to this until tournaments are quite often the cause of these injuries rather than the move itself. But the fact remains that people do get hurt.
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Jan 31, 2012 16:28
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Talking of rear naked chokes, anyone has a good video of step-by-step way to get the rear naked choke from back mount with over/under? I usually just wing it mixing stuff I learned with intuition, but there's probably some good step by step guide on how to proceed. I usually end up doing the clock choke or something else involving collars once I get back mount.
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Jan 31, 2012 16:49
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Bjj is approaching that time in a martial art's lifespan where it levels off in growth and they start adding lovely rules and dumb limitations that lead to over specialized training. Don't worry our grandkids will still do bjj but you will be required to touch your back to the mat at all times and matches will resemble two cuttlefish engaging in a courtship ritual.
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Jan 31, 2012 16:52
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Dante posted:Well the IBJJF has loving done it now, they've updated their already dumb ruleset on reaping to basically ban any berimbolo and DLR sweep that puts inward pressure on the knee. They also of course did this right before the euros so a bunch of people didn't know and got DQ'ed. I don't really have any faith that this is done to protect the fighters, this is probably just another step to "clean it up" for the olympics where this horrible banning poo poo will just continue to judo-esque levels. Hillary Williams (who aside from being a good competitor and licensed IBJJF referee doesn't have any more connection as far as I know) is making some horrible defenses of these rules too over on the underground which just makes me worry more that this is what they're really thinking behind the scenes: The argument that "this historically isn't part of the sport" is really dumb for a sport that historically steals whatever works from other sports. Next they should ban all takedowns aside from "hug+fall over" because wrestling is not historically part of the sport.
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Jan 31, 2012 16:53
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KingColliwog posted:Talking of rear naked chokes, anyone has a good video of step-by-step way to get the rear naked choke from back mount with over/under? I usually just wing it mixing stuff I learned with intuition, but there's probably some good step by step guide on how to proceed. Stephan Kesting's is pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=176SLdBhj_A Also, a "clock choke" from back mount? Do you mean the bow and arrow choke? As far as I know the clock choke refers to the one you do from the side to a guy who's turtled.
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Jan 31, 2012 16:58
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colonel_korn posted:Stephan Kesting's is pretty good. Thanks for the link, will watch that thoroughly. What I meant is that I'll get the lapel/forearm grip while in back mount and move to side of their turtle to apply the choke if I get the opportunity. I like it because you really don't need to get your grip on the lapel deep so I catch that more often than other things when people are protecting their neck. Of course you need to be on top of a turtled/on his stomach guy so it won't work if you turned him over on his back or side. It's probably considered a very bad idea to abandon back mount, but I suck at it and my clock choke is getting solid. Also judo guys really love to turtle so I get a ton of opportunity to try it. Seeing that bow and arrow choke makes me want to try to do that instead once I get the lapel from back mount though.
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Jan 31, 2012 17:40
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Rear naked choke is very hard to get with the gi in the way, just go for the collar. Clock choke is great for punishing habitual turtlers and bow and arrow is very easy from any kind of over/under back control (probably the most common sub I get in competition in fact). Just be sure to keep the elbow of your choking arm in tight to prevent your arm being pulled over their head and you're golden.
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Jan 31, 2012 17:52
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Taratang posted:Rear naked choke is very hard to get with the gi in the way, just go for the collar. Clock choke is great for punishing habitual turtlers and bow and arrow is very easy from any kind of over/under back control (probably the most common sub I get in competition in fact). Just be sure to keep the elbow of your choking arm in tight to prevent your arm being pulled over their head and you're golden.
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Jan 31, 2012 18:03
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nemoulette posted:I read somewhere that the bow and arrow is like the most common choke in high level gi competition. It's probably the most common submission period and collar chokes put together make up the majority of submissions in total.
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Jan 31, 2012 18:16
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I always look for the rear naked first but usually finish with the slide choke from the back, it seems very easy to get. The bow and arrow is pretty sick too... I lost to that choke in my first gi match 
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Jan 31, 2012 18:22
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mindtwist posted:I always look for the rear naked first but usually finish with the slide choke from the back, it seems very easy to get. The bow and arrow is pretty sick too... I lost to that choke in my first gi match I lost to a guy at blue belt to that as well. I spent 3 minutes making him hop like a rabbit in my x-guard then he got out and choked me with like a minute left. I feel bad since I haven't competed in like two years, since I got to purple. I'd like to but I hate how poorly run most tournaments are, the enormous "do anything to win a meaningless trophy" assholes and the time commitment to take a whole saturday to sit around. Plus $70 is the standard around here and that seems like a bit of a ripoff. If there was a like 12pm-6pm, well run $20 entry or whatever mini tournament series I'd do it once or twice a month.
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Jan 31, 2012 18:37
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Xguard86 posted:I lost to a guy at blue belt to that as well. I spent 3 minutes making him hop like a rabbit in my x-guard then he got out and choked me with like a minute left.
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Jan 31, 2012 18:53
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KingColliwog posted:Talking of rear naked chokes, anyone has a good video of step-by-step way to get the rear naked choke from back mount with over/under? I usually just wing it mixing stuff I learned with intuition, but there's probably some good step by step guide on how to proceed. Definitely have a look at the Kesting video. One bit of note, as my coach showed me, is that on his step "the tiger claw" he shortcuts the process a little too much. It might be difficult to get that hand all the way to the shoulder blade. Instead try to reach the tricep instead, and you can strip their hand and pull the choke tighter like kesting shows. Also, Don't loving cross your ankles in rear mount (I'm sure you don't but I might as well harp on it while I'm out with my stupid crossing my ankles injury).
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Jan 31, 2012 19:09
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Drewjitsu posted:Also, Don't loving cross your ankles in rear mount (I'm sure you don't but I might as well harp on it while I'm out with my stupid crossing my ankles injury).
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Jan 31, 2012 19:12
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Dante posted:Well the IBJJF has loving done it now, they've updated their already dumb ruleset on reaping to basically ban any berimbolo and DLR sweep that puts inward pressure on the knee. They also of course did this right before the euros so a bunch of people didn't know and got DQ'ed. I don't really have any faith that this is done to protect the fighters, this is probably just another step to "clean it up" for the olympics where this horrible banning poo poo will just continue to judo-esque levels. Hillary Williams (who aside from being a good competitor and licensed IBJJF referee doesn't have any more connection as far as I know) is making some horrible defenses of these rules too over on the underground which just makes me worry more that this is what they're really thinking behind the scenes: My take on it - ADCC is the biggest money grappling tournament there is. You can't make a living just competing in the IBJJF; the money comes from A) running your academy, B) making instructionals, C) MMA, and D) the few grappling tournaments like ADCC that pay significant cash. Last year's ADCC, berimbolos were all over the place and leglocks were the single most common submission - if you train just for IBJJF rules, you're going to handicap yourself for two of the four major ways that you make money through jiujitsu. There's a lot of tradition and politics keeping IBJJF in the forefront, but if it doesn't either change its rules or start offering tournaments with significant prize money, it's going to recede in importance in terms of where the major competitors choose to compete.
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Jan 31, 2012 19:24
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Does the ADCC ruleset see much use outside of the tournament series itself?
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Jan 31, 2012 19:41
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fatherdog posted:My take on it - ADCC is the biggest money grappling tournament there is. You can't make a living just competing in the IBJJF; the money comes from A) running your academy, B) making instructionals, C) MMA, and D) the few grappling tournaments like ADCC that pay significant cash. Last year's ADCC, berimbolos were all over the place and leglocks were the single most common submission - if you train just for IBJJF rules, you're going to handicap yourself for two of the four major ways that you make money through jiujitsu. There's a lot of tradition and politics keeping IBJJF in the forefront, but if it doesn't either change its rules or start offering tournaments with significant prize money, it's going to recede in importance in terms of where the major competitors choose to compete. On a sidenote here's a pretty interesting snippet about the IBJJF. It's been critized before for being run like a club for friends and it apparently still is. quote:I very recently became a recognized IBJJF black belt which required me to fork over $60 bucks for a referee course, $90 dollars for a first aid course, and finally $400 dollars to become registered. Now I'm a part of the organization, where is there a rules committee? The board of directors? Where's my vote? Where's my ability to participate on issues and topics that affect the organization? So far the only thing this registration has given me is the ability to send students to tournaments under my name and stripe recognition for my black belt degrees as I receive them. Going to the website reveals a FAQ page that's been empty for years and a few emails in which to contact the org. There's not even a list of people who work in this organization! Personally, I think the organization needs to confer with it's members, especially it's black belts, about these rules and issues in general that affect it's members. Their tournaments are super organized, now its time to clean house. Dante fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 31, 2012 |
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Jan 31, 2012 19:52
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http://vimeo.com/22637689 Mastering that butterfly elevator back take (at :35) is my new project.
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Jan 31, 2012 20:06
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Dante posted:Go talk to your school and ask if they'd be interested in doing an interschool tourny in the area if you do all the organizing. If you set it up right you can get 4-5 schools and a nice turnout for the purple and below and after doing it once it'll pretty much run itself. Throw some names in a hat and set up a pool and run the matches over 2 saturdays or something. You can get nonshit refs and rules probably too and it's nice experience for the big comps. The winner can get a yellow t-shirt that says LOCAL CHAMP or something. I know this probably sounds like bs coming from a dude who posts on internet forums but my life has about 16 hours of free time a week. I can't possibly get that done. I will shop it around the gym though, maybe someone with more time can run with it.
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Jan 31, 2012 20:09
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Dante posted:Well we can hope for that, but it's by no means certain. The momentum that BJJ is gathering combined with the inertia of IBJJF as a prestigious tournament and standard-setting regulatory federation is worrying. While (almost) everyone who competes in the ADCC trains with the gi, nogi is still different enough that you can get by with two different rulesets living side by side. The Abu Dhabi Pros for instance use the IBJJF rules. The real threat is what happens if it goes olympic, which the IBJJF has been lobbying extensively for. The gravitas of the olympics instantly enforce itself as the industry standard and they would obviously pick up the IBJJF ruleset. I agree that that would be the likely outcome, but the IBJJF can lobby itself till it's blue in the face, the chance of BJJ becoming an Olympic sport is incredibly low, because the current tendency is cutting down on events, not adding them, and BJJ is way too close to Judo in ruleset to make the cut. If any submission grappling event gets added, it'll almost certainly be no-gi under the FILA ruleset, since FILA has some political clout with the Olympic committee (and the IBJJF, to put it mildly, does not). The FILA ruleset is it's own can of worms, of course.
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Jan 31, 2012 20:15
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fatherdog posted:I agree that that would be the likely outcome, but the IBJJF can lobby itself till it's blue in the face, the chance of BJJ becoming an Olympic sport is incredibly low, because the current tendency is cutting down on events, not adding them, and BJJ is way too close to Judo in ruleset to make the cut. If any submission grappling event gets added, it'll almost certainly be no-gi under the FILA ruleset, since FILA has some political clout with the Olympic committee (and the IBJJF, to put it mildly, does not). The FILA ruleset is it's own can of worms, of course.
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Jan 31, 2012 20:30
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Dante posted:I agree it's unlikely in the near future (though I expect it eventually) I don't. Like I said, FILA no-gi will be in the Olympics long before BJJ ever is, and even that I doubt will happen any time soon.
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Jan 31, 2012 20:34
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fatherdog posted:I don't. Like I said, FILA no-gi will be in the Olympics long before BJJ ever is, and even that I doubt will happen any time soon.
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Jan 31, 2012 20:47
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Dante posted:While it's not as spectator-friendly as the olympics like, it's still a martial art that looks traditional and without bloodshed which is quickly rising in popularity. There were rumours of showcasing BJJ in Athens, but that attempt died. I'd be surprised if this didn't come up in Rio though, just like China used the Beijing Olympics as a way to get wushu officially recognized. It's not really the spectator-friendly aspect; it's the fact that it's very similar to Judo, and the IBJJF's rule changes are making it more similar rather than less. Also, as I said, the fact that FILA has some clout with the Olympic committee and the IBJJF has zero.
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Jan 31, 2012 20:53
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fatherdog posted:It's not really the spectator-friendly aspect; it's the fact that it's very similar to Judo, and the IBJJF's rule changes are making it more similar rather than less. Also, as I said, the fact that FILA has some clout with the Olympic committee and the IBJJF has zero.
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Jan 31, 2012 21:21
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Dante posted:Yeah what you're saying is true, it's just that I have a very optimistic view on BJJ's future so I see BJJ ending up in the olympics within my lifetime. In any case the IBJJF is still chugging along ruining things for everyone so far, even though some of their more controversial rules have been in for years now. I hope you're right and some other ruleset becomes a foundation for a recognized tournament. I actually like the FILA scoring rules, aside from their retarded positional resets for out-of-bounds.
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Jan 31, 2012 21:40
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fatherdog posted:I actually like the FILA scoring rules, aside from their retarded positional resets for out-of-bounds. Positional scoring is a nessecary evil, but honestly I wish they'd do away with all the fluff around it and only give points for the classic positions and then have first man who scores wins when it hits overtime (also 5 minutes isn't enough). Dante fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jan 31, 2012 |
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Jan 31, 2012 22:01
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