|
Dante posted:They're not horrible, but they still have some of the bad quirks of other rulesystems (penalties for sitting down, points for takedowns) Points for takedowns is a "bad quirk" now?
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 22:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 01:30 |
|
|
Sometimes I wonder what giving points only for mount and back would do. Maybe create more action, or lead to a million overtimes
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 22:15
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:Points for takedowns is a "bad quirk" now? Points for solely taking someone down is silly and if you take someone down into a dominant position the points for that position are enough, because it doesn't matter how you attained sidecontrol. It also leaves open a way of gaming the rules to get points by continually taking someone down and disengaging. Similarly I don't care for penalties for sitting down at all, if Marcelo wants to terrorize giants with his butterfly guard then let him go ahead without any weird point penalties. Xguard86 posted:Sometimes I wonder what giving points only for mount and back would do. Maybe create more action, or lead to a million overtimes It would also be acceptable to have this scoring-light system reserved for black belts and keep more scoring around for the other belts just to speed things up for the ranks that essentially don't matter at all. Dante fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 31, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 22:18
|
|
|
I wish more of these events would differentiate between throws and takedowns. Giving people points for a well-timed fireman's carry is one thing, but every time I see someone get rewarded for hitting a sloppy shot that just drags the opponent down and lands them in guard I get depressed. Guard has been commonly viewed as a neutral position for years, why are so many organizations still acting like it's a positional advantage for the top guy?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 22:24
|
|
|
Ridleys Revenge posted:I wish more of these events would differentiate between throws and takedowns. Giving people points for a well-timed fireman's carry is one thing, but every time I see someone get rewarded for hitting a sloppy shot that just drags the opponent down and lands them in guard I get depressed. Guard has been commonly viewed as a neutral position for years, why are so many organizations still acting like it's a positional advantage for the top guy? I don't really care how someone got to a position and I'm very wary of scoring how "good" a technique is, because then the sport quickly becomes a lot more subjective and ultimately a sport that's fundamentally a collection of specific techniques cough judo rather than a sport that's about achieving some result by whatever means you can muster as long as it's within these reasonable limits.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 22:28
|
|
|
Well there's more to it than that. A good throw will knock the wind out of an opponent and create a guaranteed submission opportunity that you won't be able to take advantage of if you have to take top position first to secure the points. For example, if I hit a solid throw I CAN drop into north/south, knee ride or side control, get the points, and then hunt for a sub from there... but it's actually better strategy for me to just fall backward into an arm bar attempt. This is because I can time my arm bar to coincide with my opponent hitting the mat, taking advantage of the fact that the impact prevents them from turning into me to escape. That impact creates a significant strategic advantage that should be recognized in the scores because it works as an equal alternative to taking top position before subbing. But takedowns that just drag someone down and have no impact or positional advantage definitely shouldn't be worth points- they don't do anything! E: It should be noted that similar impact can be generated through some sweeps, and should be recognized in those cases as well. For example, when someone hits an elevator arm bar they should be recognized in points both for the sweep (because of the impact) and for the arm bar attempt. Ex2: Nevermind this just got way too complicated when I tried to work it out on paper, but suffice to say that impact has huge strategic advantage but is largely ignored because it's so difficult to score and evaluate. Ridleys Revenge fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 31, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 23:05
|
|
|
Rule 3.4- I) all throws will be rated on a 1-10 scale with the highest and lowest scores thrown out. The average of the remaining scores will be multiplied by a constant to determine the point availability for the remaining round time. II)The Russian and Chinese judges will assign rank in blatantly nationalistic ways.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 23:20
|
|
|
Dante posted:Yes, to the extent that point scoring must be tolerated to avoid having matches until one guy collapses from exhaustion I think the best idea is to only have them be given for the very dominant positions that are generally agreed to be a good platform to submit someone from such as side control, north-south, mount, backmount etc. Sorry, but this is just crap. The purpose of points is to, in the absence of a finish, give a reasonable idea of who the better grappler is, and being a better grappler includes the ability to take people down. If takedowns weren't so deemphasized in so many competition rulesets, maybe there'd be less grappling phenoms going into mma and getting their clocks cleaned. Dante posted:It also leaves open a way of gaming the rules to get points by continually taking someone down and disengaging. Pretty much every ruleset specifically disallows disengaging under passivity/stalling rules.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 01:00
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:If people would stop being pussies and just get in a man's guard when he lays down and beckons, maybe there'd be less grappling phenoms going into mma and getting their clocks cleaned. Fixed for how I see the world
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 08:15
|
|
|
I think the problem with Grappling phenoms in MMA is their striking is so loving rudimentary they don't realise keeping their chins tucked, their hands up and learning to jab would alievate 90% of the issues most of them seem to have.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 09:53
|
|
|
BlindSite posted:I think the problem with Grappling phenoms in MMA is their striking is so loving rudimentary they don't realise keeping their chins tucked, their hands up and learning to jab would alievate 90% of the issues most of them seem to have. Arona proved that with decent takedowns you can ignore all that crap.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 17:15
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:Sorry, but this is just crap. The purpose of points is to, in the absence of a finish, give a reasonable idea of who the better grappler is, and being a better grappler includes the ability to take people down. quote:If takedowns weren't so deemphasized in so many competition rulesets, maybe there'd be less grappling phenoms going into mma and getting their clocks cleaned. quote:Pretty much every ruleset specifically disallows disengaging under passivity/stalling rules. Generally I think a tremendous amount of effort should be taken (at least at the black belt level) to make sure it's submissions that determine the result and since points are inevitable you should make them as clear as possible to avoid players strategizing to grapple for solely points instead of getting points on their way to a submission. Dante fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 17:55
|
|
|
Dante posted:I don't think it gives a clear representation of who is the better grappling Yeah, and you're wrong. Part and parcel of being a good grappler is the ability to force a grappling scenario. If you aren't good at takedowns, you are a worse grappler than the guy who is. There have been grappling sports going back to the dawn of recorded history, and literally every single one of them has put a premium on takedowns when it comes to scoring. There's a good reason for that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 18:31
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:Yeah, and you're wrong. Part and parcel of being a good grappler is the ability to force a grappling scenario. If you aren't good at takedowns, you are a worse grappler than the guy who is. In any case takedowns cause a lot of injuries and look a lot like other olympic sports so I guess they're next on the IBJJF hitlist. Dante fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Feb 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 18:40
|
|
|
Dante posted:The ability to force a grappling scenario by tying someone up standing or taking someone down to the ground is irrelevant in a sport that is by definition a forced grappling scenario. I understand that a lot of people have a massive attachment to takedowns, but they're no more or less of an indicator of your grappling prowess than other grappling skills like being able to sweep your opponent all over the place from the ground. Which is why they get no more or less points than being able to sweep your opponent. quote:Maybe we could agree on a middle ground of not penalizing people who sit down and do their (nonpoint) sweeps from there instead of the people who prefer to remain standing in a battle of the takedown points? I'm actually pretty happy with the FILA middle ground of allowing guard pulls as long as they're simultaneous with a submission attempt. quote:In any case takedowns cause a lot of injuries and look a lot like other olympic sports so I guess they're next on the IBJJF hitlist. This honestly would not surprise me that much.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 18:50
|
|
|
Can't wait for the new set of IBJJF rules where every competitor starts on their knees.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 18:58
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:Which is why they get no more or less points than being able to sweep your opponent. quote:I'm actually pretty happy with the FILA middle ground of allowing guard pulls as long as they're simultaneous with a submission attempt. I don't see the problem at all in allowing people to scoot around in butterfly or go for DLR right away. If people feel more comfortable engaging on the bottom let them, it's already enough of a natural disadvantage being on the bottom. Bohemian Nights posted:Can't wait for the new set of IBJJF rules where every competitor starts on their knees. 
Dante fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Feb 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 19:06
|
|
|
Don't the Olympics like excitement in their sports? Watching a dude abandon a position to attack the leg is one of the most exciting things in BJJ.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 19:09
|
|
|
Grifter posted:Don't the Olympics like excitement in their sports? Watching a dude abandon a position to attack the leg is one of the most exciting things in BJJ.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 19:15
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:I agree that that would be the likely outcome, but the IBJJF can lobby itself till it's blue in the face, the chance of BJJ becoming an Olympic sport is incredibly low, because the current tendency is cutting down on events It looks like Brazil is going for beach soccer for Rio 2016 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 19:23
|
|
|
Dante posted:Just on a sidenote this is apparently not true, since the modern professional conception of the Olympics that number of sports and events has kept going up even though they've revolved sports. It dropped by two in 2009 briefly when baseball and softball were cut, but is up to the previous 28 again since rugby and golf was added for 2016. The current rumblings are that 28 might be the cap, but with one or more sport slots reserved for the host country to pick from the pool of recognized IOC sports. They also cut the number of classes for wrestling not long ago and I believe there was talk of doing the same for Judo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 19:30
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:They also cut the number of classes for wrestling not long ago and I believe there was talk of doing the same for Judo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 19:34
|
|
|
Who Gotch Ya posted:Fixed for how I see the world here, have some new heros: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qpOWcgCxDw
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 19:53
|
|
|
I don't understand how anyone can not think take-downs are important or show who is better. There is no better display of dominance then picking someone up and throwing them on their head.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 20:04
|
|
|
westcoaster posted:I don't understand how anyone can not think take-downs are important or show who is better. There is no better display of dominance then picking someone up and throwing them on their head. Anyway we've pretty much run that debate into the ground over the last few pages so I guess we can go back to talking about what a great matchup Rodolfo vs Roger is going to be Dante fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 20:07
|
|
|
Dante posted:here, have some new heros: What do I do to earn my funky rainbow belt?!
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 01:12
|
|
|
The same school that gives out the camo ones
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 01:14
|
|
|
Dr. Miracle posted:What do I do to earn my funky rainbow belt?! 
Dante fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Feb 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 02:12
|
|
|
Senor P. posted:Do you mean reviews of various gis or which websites you can order stuff from? I know this is a late reply but my Padilla & Sons Lightweight gi is really bulletproof, and a good buy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 03:09
|
|
|
So I guess I haven't seen this before. A dogbar, apparently? http://www.graciemag.com/en/2012/02...nternational%29
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 16:23
|
|
|
That's the sneaky kneebar from the top where you trap his leg with your own, right? I've seen it once or twice before. I think this video shows it a little more clearly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3bN3RdCgxE&t=120s
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 16:55
|
|
|
Yeah I've seen those a few times before, I've never been able to pull them off though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 16:56
|
|
|
Siamang posted:I know this is a late reply but my Padilla & Sons Lightweight gi is really bulletproof, and a good buy. I want in on the gi talk! For judo gis I highly recommend Gillsports gi (Olympian Nicolas Gill's company). He makes Judo and BJJ gi. I can't comment on the BJJ gis quality since I have never seen one in person, but the judo competition gi (http://www.gillsports.ca/index.php/judogis/competition-judogi-white.html) are just ridiculously awesome. First they aren't particularly expensive at 150$ for a competition judogi. The cut/lenght is really good (send him an e-mail with your height/weight to know which size to buy), but most importantly they are just so thick. From what I understand, they pretty much took all the regulations of the IJF and maxed everything to the edge of legality. Every single person both in BJJ class and judo class has commented on how thick and hard to grip the judogi was. And from my experience, they are by far the most annoying gi to fight against. Mizuno, Adidas, white tiger, you name it, I've never seen a gi I hated more on an opponent than a Gillsport gi. Cons are that they are heavy (obviously) and thus warm. I personally don't mind at all!
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 17:12
|
|
|
Note that in addition to being much thicker (and therefore warmer and tire you out more quickly), judo gis are also on average much looser and not reinforced in the areas where BJJ gis tend to be (knees for example). I wouldn't recommend buying a judo gi for BJJ, even though the comp standards for gis are pretty lax in BJJ.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 17:29
|
|
|
Dante posted:Note that in addition to being much thicker (and therefore warmer and tire you out more quickly), judo gis are also on average much looser and not reinforced in the areas where BJJ gis tend to be (knees for example). I wouldn't recommend buying a judo gi for BJJ, even though the comp standards for gis are pretty lax in BJJ. That's certainly true, except for the knee part. I don't know how reinforced bjj gis knees are, but all judogis I've seen have reeinforced knees. May be not to the same extent? I never took a good look at bjj guys pants. I'm not sure I've ever seen a difference in how tired I get when I wear my gill vs my cheap jukado ultra-thin-piece-of-poo poo-gi though. I sweat profusely with both and I don't feel like it really affects me. It's so much easier to break someone grip that it probably more than compensate. There's probably some judo guys in here so that was more geared toward them, but for people who crosstrain BJJ and Judo like me I think gillsports gi are a great buy since you can use them in both sports (and comps). But you are right, buying a judo gi for BJJ only probably isn't the best choice, but it works well for me when I go to BJJ class and the added thickness really comes in handy. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Feb 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 17:37
|
|
|
Bohemian Nights posted:So I guess I haven't seen this before. A dogbar, apparently? http://www.graciemag.com/en/2012/02...nternational%29 They're possible from bottom half-guard as well but kinda tough to sink properly because there's so much room to twist and turn.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 17:45
|
|
|
I used to train with a judogi in bjj. I found the top prefectly fine, kind of baggy but whatever. The pants, however, just aren't built for the kind of crazy leg movement you do in bjj. I found them very binding and they eventually tore in the crotch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 17:50
|
|
|
BJJ gi's usually have narrower sleeves than Judogi's, from my experience. Isn't the skirt bit at the bottom of a gi different for each style too?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 19:56
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:BJJ gi's usually have narrower sleeves than Judogi's, from my experience. Isn't the skirt bit at the bottom of a gi different for each style too?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 01:30 |
|
|
The guy that introduced me to Judo gave me his spare double weave gi for free (lucky me huh) but it was a bit tattered so I thought I'd treat myself to a new one seeing as I hit a year training a few months ago. The single weave was only 55 and I thought I'm not exactly a competition player yet so I'll just buy a single weave, but I loving hate it. The coach measured me and chose my size but it feels too big. It just feels loose and... sloppy somehow. No matter how tight I tie my belt the gi top just always comes out but with my double weave gi if I tied the belt the right way the top would never come out. Waste of 50 bucks really. Might give it to the local charity store and just buy a double weave.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 23:03
|
|
