The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > The Dorkroom > The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

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whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

HPL posted:

If there were an EVF built in, I could see the point of the design, but it just looks needlessly bulky without one. Plus I doubt you'll be able to fit it in your pocket with anything other than that pancake 40mm.

I think the thing is that Pentax tried to go retro, but they went back to the ugly AF film bodies instead of the cool manual focus ones.

What they should have done is a NEX5 type body with an adapter. It's entirely doable to put electric contacts and mechanical screw drive couplers inside the adapter.

# ? Feb 1, 2012 21:53

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# ? May 13, 2024 04:10

Costello Jello: Oct 24, 2003; It had to start somewhere

spankmeister posted:

That's what I call a pancake lens though, drat.

Fake pancake lens. Looks to me like they made the new "short flange" lens to be recessed really deeply into that fat body, instead of making a thin NEX style camera that has an A-mount adapter, like Sony.

Finally, a camera uglier than a Canon G shot. I knew it could be done.

# ? Feb 1, 2012 22:15

Dr. Despair: Nov 4, 2009; 39 perfect posts with each roll.

Costello Jello posted:

Fake pancake lens. Looks to me like they made the new "short flange" lens to be recessed really deeply into that fat body, instead of making a thin NEX style camera that has an A-mount adapter, like Sony.

Finally, a camera uglier than a Canon G shot. I knew it could be done.

The pentax 40mm is really freaking thin, and something they've been making for decades in one form or another. It's also probably way more expensive than it should be, the iq isn't really great, but people pay a ton to have that sort of compactness.

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-Compact-Samsung-Digital-Cameras/dp/B00077KMXG

e. the fact that they're including the pancake has me worried that it'll still cost 350+ for the lens alone, putting that model well above the cost of a NEX. We'll find out tomorrow hopefully.

# ? Feb 1, 2012 22:37

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

Well, the price is out for the X-Pro1

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/02/01/fujifilm-x-pro1-price-revealed-available-for-preorder-in-the-us/

Even in photography dollars thats a loving expensive camera.

# ? Feb 1, 2012 23:32

Pompous Rhombus: Mar 11, 2007

AceClown posted:

Well, the price is out for the X-Pro1

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/02/01/fujifilm-x-pro1-price-revealed-available-for-preorder-in-the-us/

Even in photography dollars thats a loving expensive camera.

, I thought that $1700-ish was going to include a lens at least.

Still haven't ruled out selling my 5D + Canon glass and getting one :negative:

# ? Feb 1, 2012 23:42

RustedChrome: Jun 10, 2007; "do not hold the camera obliquely, or the world will seem to be on an inclined plane."

Pompous Rhombus posted:

, I thought that $1700-ish was going to include a lens at least.

Still haven't ruled out selling my 5D + Canon glass and getting one

I already pre-ordered it and the 3 lenses. I figure if I find I hate it, I will be able to flip it for more than I paid as long as I do it early enough.
I'm selling my 5D2 and Canon glass regardless. I'll probably sell my M8 too as this camera will really replace what I use both of those for.

# ? Feb 1, 2012 23:52

Medusula: Aug 8, 2007

It depends on how it translates into � for me, that's �1072 on a flat conversion, the x100 is $100 cheaper in america so if it's the same then it's a maybe when the next gen comes out. Given how it looks at iso 6400 then (for me) it's certainly one to look at for me when I upgrade my D300, if I had a D7000 or was buying one of the two new nikon DSLRs then I wouldn't consider it.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 00:10

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

Haha. Oh man, more photos of the K-01 have come out and it seriously looks like a crappy plasticky Russian knockoff camera.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/02/02/Pentax_K-01_announcement

And not only that, but the camera is just as big as a DSLR minus a little off the top, so forget about pocketable.

And in other "WHY?" news, Ricoh came out with an APS-C module with a garden variety slow kit lens on it. Yes, they could have put an f/2.8 zoom on it and called it a day while the money rolls in, but why bother?

HPL fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Feb 2, 2012

# ? Feb 2, 2012 16:26

MAkev: Dec 15, 2003; Killed my sensei in a duel and I'll never say why.

Good god that thing looks terrible

# ? Feb 2, 2012 16:41

Costello Jello: Oct 24, 2003; It had to start somewhere

More Pentax K-01 pics:

All of my LOLs, Pentax. Brought to you by the Marc Newson, the designer who created the following:

Lance Armstrong bike:

Black, yellow, and an abomination before God. The three fundamentals of design according to Marc Newson.

Dear Pentax, I hear you want to design a camera that no one will buy. I've attached my portolio, a chair that no one would buy. Please respond.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 17:16

poopinmymouth: Mar 2, 2005; PROUD 2 B AMERICAN (these colors don't run)

It truly is hideous

# ? Feb 2, 2012 17:25

Dr. Despair: Nov 4, 2009; 39 perfect posts with each roll.

Holy hell that thing is gigantic. And expensive.

Guess I'm still going to be looking at a NEX or a m43 camera still.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 17:27

Mightaswell: Dec 4, 2003; Not now chief, I'm in the fuckin' zone.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 17:34

Costello Jello: Oct 24, 2003; It had to start somewhere

Here's an article where a Pentax executive tries to explain why anyone would want to buy this camera and fails miserably:
http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2143551/pentax-unveils-compact-01-mirrorless-camera

BJP posted:

BJP: Can you tell us what is the target audience for this camera?

Jonathan Martin: The K-01 is aimed at, first and foremost, the fashion and design market, which we see as a new market for us. But it's also aimed at current Pentax users, who will have the ability of using their current range of Pentax lenses on a brand new product.

BJP: Why were you interested in the fashion and design audience?

Jonathan Martin: That's important because it's traditionally a younger audience - an audience that Pentax, traditionally, hasn't approached and hasn't managed to get hold of. So with our collaboration with Mark Newson [an Australian designer], we hope to use this exposure to actively target that audience for, probably, the first time.

BJP: But what about the amateur and semi-professional market, as well as non-Pentax users? Do you think the K-01 will attract them?

Jonathan Martin: I think it will attract them. I think it will certainly stand out in the retail environment because of the design of the product. It will make people look - people that are generally curious.

BJP: The design is very different from what you would expect from a compact mirrorless camera. What was the thinking behind it?

Jonathan Martin: The collaboration between Mark and Pentax mainly took place in Japan. From what I can see, we gave him an open book and we embraced all of his ideas.

BJP: Was it a conscious choice to select Pentax's K-mount?

Jonathan Martin: I think so. It gives us [access to] a lot of existing users...

BJP: ...but that also means, in terms of using an APS-C sized sensor, it makes a more chunky camera body.

Jonathan Martin: It has to be bigger, yes.

BJP: But for a compact interchangeable lens camera, don't you think it's too big?

Jonathan Martin: No I don't think so. I think the size of the product is outweighted by the range of lensesthat you can use on the product.

BJP: But how are you going to convince people that have a DSLR camera to go with something that is almost similar in size to a DSLR?

Jonathan Martin: Well, it's whether they want to go with mirrorless features rather than a traditional DSLR.

BJP: What are these mirrorless features that you don't find in a DSLR?

Jonathan Martin: ... design, really. Design.

BJP: So you're basically banking on design?

Jonathan Martin: We're banking on design, and on the fact that they are - we know because we've done market research - a lot of Pentax users that have been waiting for a K-mount mirrorless product.

BJP: But don't they want something more compact in size?

It's pretty sad when even Pentax can't make a convincing argument on why you should buy their camera.

This is what that Pentax executive looked like during the interview.

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# ? Feb 2, 2012 18:21

mes: Apr 28, 2006

Holy crap, the yellow grip with the red and green buttons on the top make the drat thing look like a toy.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 18:31

Shmoogy: Mar 21, 2007

They loving love fashion and awesome designs such as this marvelous wonder:

Can't blame them for releasing something so gaudy.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 18:37

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

The most hilarious thing is still the giant crankpipe in the middle. Cho-Choo!

# ? Feb 2, 2012 18:37

Clayton Bigsby: Apr 17, 2005

Holy cow, has Pentax been hitting the crackpipe hard on this one...

Let's take a DSLR, take AWAY the viewfinder and take AWAY the phase detect autofocus (which they were finally getting the hang on, for fucks sake), and add, uh, nothing. Let it be as big as a DSLR too. And make a hump that looks like a viewfinder except isn't.

And paint it yellow.

(Really, if they took a DSLR and hit the Liveview button, what's different? Nothing, except the DSLR can be made to not suck.)

# ? Feb 2, 2012 19:43

Medusula: Aug 8, 2007

My initial reaction was "oh god it has a HDR option on the loving top dial"

# ? Feb 2, 2012 19:45

Bob Socko: Feb 20, 2001

Jeepers. Looks like it should be hung on a fridge next to some macaroni art. Babby's first industrial design project.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 19:46

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

Looks like one of those 35mm waterproof things.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 19:52

Pablo Bluth: Sep 7, 2007; I've made a huge mistake.

It's like they saw the success of Fuji's retro trip, and decided to do the same, but went with 1980s.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 19:55

RustedChrome: Jun 10, 2007; "do not hold the camera obliquely, or the world will seem to be on an inclined plane."

I saw the limited edition silver/black K5 when I was in Japan and I thought it was a beautiful little DSLR. I had high hopes for their mirrorless offering but, yeah, what's the point. But then again I'm not one of those hip "fashion & design" people they are supposedly targeting.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 19:56

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

Yellow is so five years ago. It's all about the animal prints.

Seriously, what "fashion & design" person is going to have a shitload of K-mount lenses already sitting around? If they'll spend $1000 on a new handbag, they'll spend whatever for a new lens system. Or for that matter, would they even bother using anything other than a kit lens? Develop a new mount and reap the benefits instead of staying chained to a legacy system.

This whole project just smacks of lazy and halfassedness.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 20:55

Laser Cow: Feb 22, 2006; Just like real cows!

Only with lasers.

I'm going to show this to my industrial designer colleagues tomorrow, I'll see if they can interpret the intent behind this thing. There's nothing I can say at hasn't been said already.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:06

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Costello Jello posted:

Here's an article where a Pentax executive tries to explain why anyone would want to buy this camera and fails miserably:
http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2143551/pentax-unveils-compact-01-mirrorless-camera

It's pretty sad when even Pentax can't make a convincing argument on why you should buy their camera.

So if I'm understanding that right, Pentax is targeting owners of legacy K-mount lenses in a field which they traditionally have not made inroads in (i.e. a field in which people don't own legacy lenses), and you should buy their mirrorless camera instead of a DSLR because its excitingly chunky design enables the use of DSLR lenses. Have I got that more or less straight?

Go to hell, Pentax.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:08

Laser Cow: Feb 22, 2006; Just like real cows!

Only with lasers.

I can see a sort of post modern thing going on but I can't believe they are that stupid.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:11

Brick Card: Oct 12, 2008; Better by far you should forget and smile than that you should remember and be sad.

I like the new Pentax K-01, really like the fact that you can use SLR lenses with it. I even like that it's bulkier because that lets you actually grip it. People need to get over the presumption that mirrorless cameras have to be thinner, they don't. They're just an evolution in design. In this day an age, having a mechanical shutter seems incredibly antiquated. I sort of look at it like the old platter harddrives and newer SSD harddrives. Solid state is clearly better and the future but the tech is not quite developed enough or cheap enough to completely replace the old style drives.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:34

RustedChrome: Jun 10, 2007; "do not hold the camera obliquely, or the world will seem to be on an inclined plane."

Looks aside, why would you pay a premium for the K-01 over the K-r?

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I'm so out of touch with the consumer market I wouldn't be surprised if this is a smash hit that saved Pentax. (OK, I would be pretty surprised but I've been wrong before)

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:41

omgitsdave: Jun 18, 2004

Brick Card posted:

People need to get over the presumption that mirrorless cameras have to be thinner, they don't.

Smaller size is likely the primary reason people are interested in these cameras over a DSLR. I agree with you the rest of the way though. It will be interesting to see how mirrorless evolves over the next few years.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:43

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Brick Card posted:

I like the new Pentax K-01, really like the fact that you can use SLR lenses with it. I even like that it's bulkier because that lets you actually grip it. People need to get over the presumption that mirrorless cameras have to be thinner, they don't. They're just an evolution in design. In this day an age, having a mechanical shutter seems incredibly antiquated. I sort of look at it like the old platter harddrives and newer SSD harddrives. Solid state is clearly better and the future but the tech is not quite developed enough or cheap enough to completely replace the old style drives.

You could have made it thinner and made an official passthrough adapter that works KA lenses automatically while letting you get shorter register distance lenses on there, as well as making it look nice and slim for press shots.

The rest of your post is pretty much garbage (much like the K-01). You're posting in the EVIL megathread dude, we all know what the benefits of mirrorless cameras are, and reduced size is one of those benefits. Thing is, the NEX-5N is a better mirrorless in basically every way.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Feb 3, 2012

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:47

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

And here I thought with the Nikon V1, the silly camera market niche had already been filled.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 22:59

Costello Jello: Oct 24, 2003; It had to start somewhere

Brick Card posted:

I like the new Pentax K-01

Brick Card posted:

really like the fact that you can use SLR lenses with it. I even like that it's bulkier because that lets you actually grip it.

You can use SLR lenses with any of the mirrorless cameras. And there doesn't look to be anything ergonomic about this camera. The NEX-5N and NEX 7 certainly have much deeper grips, while being much smaller and thinner.

Brick Card posted:

People need to get over the presumption that mirrorless cameras have to be thinner, they don't. They're just an evolution in design.

Being compact is the entire point of mirrorless. Otherwise, everyone would choose to have the optical viewfinder and better autofocus that DSLRs will give you. The second advantage to mirrorless is the short flange distance that makes it easy to adapt all sorts of lenses, another feature the K-01 is missing. Yes, you can radically change camera design with mirrorless, such as the way Sony completely reinvented how to go about manual control design and EVF design with the NEX-7. But this is just a half-melted DSLR with a yellow paint scheme.

Brick Card posted:

I sort of look at it like the old platter harddrives and newer SSD harddrives. Solid state is clearly better and the future but the tech is not quite developed enough or cheap enough to completely replace the old style drives.

You're right, the K-01 IS a lot like a hard drive missing the platter heads.

# ? Feb 2, 2012 23:00

Medusula: Aug 8, 2007

I would have though if you were going for the fashion and design market you would want to go as thin as possible - how are these kinds of people going to be carrying around a camera? Laptop bags, handbags($purses) and manbags. It's why they love the iPad and iPhone for photography, I could easily fit the GF3 + pancake lens into any of these things or even the pocket of a duffle coat and still have enough room for my purse (I actually have no idea what Americans would call a girl wallet) and keys. I bet if you put this in a laptop bag it won't zip up, or will just about zip up and scratch the paint off.

# ? Feb 3, 2012 00:01

Beastruction: Feb 16, 2005

Costello Jello posted:

I kind of like it, but I'm pretending it costs $499 and works underwater.

# ? Feb 3, 2012 00:58

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Laser Cow posted:

I can see a sort of post modern thing going on but I can't believe they are that stupid.

Seriously, believe it. Pentax has ignored the mountain of fanboys trying to throw money at them in return for a FF DSLR for years, and has instead released the following major products:

A digital medium format camera (proving that a camera with a larger sensor can be targeted at a very small market successfully even without selling a bunch of new lenses)

A DSLR with exciting new colors and no autofocus indicators

An expensive mirrorless with a point and shoot sized sensor

And now a DSLR-sized mirrorless with no viewfinder and a DSLR mount built in.

They are that stupid.

Also I've more or less been run out of the K-01 subforum on PentaxForum for suggesting it's not the best thing since the bayonet mount. To be fair: apparently the K-01 actually WILL focus screwdrive lenses, I misread a post and thought it wouldn't. It's still a lovely product, and it's kind of funny to watch a bunch of Pentax fanboys suddenly realize that SOMEONE IS MAKING CAMERAS... WITHOUT MIRRORS!

e: Now someone else is getting shat on for realizing that you won't be able to handhold it for dick with long lenses because you're not pressing it up against your face to help stabilize it. :allears:

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Feb 3, 2012

# ? Feb 3, 2012 01:41

Aargh: Sep 8, 2004

Costello Jello posted:

More Pentax K-01 pics:

All of my LOLs, Pentax. Brought to you by the Marc Newson, the designer who created the following:

Lance Armstrong bike:

Black, yellow, and an abomination before God. The three fundamentals of design according to Marc Newson.

Dear Pentax, I hear you want to design a camera that no one will buy. I've attached my portolio, a chair that no one would buy. Please respond.

Look as an Australian Industrial Designer i think i can say that I hate Marc Newson more than most but seriously what's wrong with the bike? Its a carbon fibre time trial bike designed by Trek. The only input idiot Newson had into it was the placement of the yellow vinyl stickers. If i recall correctly that whole tour Lance Armstrong had several different bikes painted or graphicced by various artists or designers. I think they were all auctioned for his charity too.

That aside i think the K-01 is a horrible design, eschewing benefits of a mirrorless system for the sake of a missed aesthetic. Pretty much a typical Newson design. That said, if it's marketed well it will sell incredibly well.

# ? Feb 3, 2012 01:48

Miko: May 20, 2001; Where I come from, there's no such thing as kryptonite.

Well, I guess the smaller you are, the louder you have to yell to get noticed v :shobon:

# ? Feb 3, 2012 01:49

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

The thing is that it doesn't even look comfortable to use, so that argument goes out the window as well. If I wanted a mirrorless camera in a DSLR form factor, I'd get a Panasonic GH2 or Sony A77. This just looks like something quickly drawn up in Google Sketchup.

It's a shame because Pentax could have had a total slam dunk by walking into the designer's office, dropping an MX on the desk and telling him to make a digital version of it.

# ? Feb 3, 2012 02:23

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# ? May 13, 2024 04:10

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Paul MaudDib posted:

Seriously, believe it. Pentax has ignored the mountain of fanboys trying to throw money at them in return for a FF DSLR for years, and has instead released the following major products:

A digital medium format camera (proving that a camera with a larger sensor can be targeted at a very small market successfully even without selling a bunch of new lenses)

A DSLR with exciting new colors and no autofocus indicators

An expensive mirrorless with a point and shoot sized sensor

And now a DSLR-sized mirrorless with no viewfinder and a DSLR mount built in.

They are that stupid.

Also I've more or less been run out of the K-01 subforum on PentaxForum for suggesting it's not the best thing since the bayonet mount. To be fair: apparently the K-01 actually WILL focus screwdrive lenses, I misread a post and thought it wouldn't. It's still a lovely product, and it's kind of funny to watch a bunch of Pentax fanboys suddenly realize that SOMEONE IS MAKING CAMERAS... WITHOUT MIRRORS!

e: Now someone else is getting shat on for realizing that you won't be able to handhold it for dick with long lenses because you're not pressing it up against your face to help stabilize it.

I am glad I jumped the K mount ship at the right time. As soon as I realized Pentax was not getting the top tier Tokina lenses, I belt the gently caress out.

Now I understand Pentax doesn't have money to do anything major, but there is no excuse for Pentax Q.

# ? Feb 3, 2012 04:47

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > The Dorkroom > The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

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