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paint dry posted:poo poo, that's what I get for reading the forums on my phone. My bad. Yeah, sorry, I was a bit more dickish than I needed to be there. What I think it comes down to is that when an artist complains about his fans being demanding and entitled, well, sometimes it comes across as a bit prickish since the fans are what pay his salary, but ultimately he's not there to perform on demand, he's there to create and people can take it or leave it. But when a guy actually steals from his fans, and then follows it up by complaining about them being demanding and entitled, it's really hard to see it as anything but being a royal fuckstick.
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Feb 2, 2012 05:02
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Locus posted:My guess is that it's a thing that stresses him out too much, and is something he's just sort of subconsciously decided to ignore. Have you ever agreed you'd do something, then forgot about it, then it go too long until it would be awkward or uncomfortable to bring up again? That, plus mild depression, could result in criminal money management and business practices. Onstad is literally Roast Beef.
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Feb 2, 2012 05:47
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Dominion posted:Onstad is literally Roast Beef.
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Feb 2, 2012 06:11
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Oh no Onstad did your depression cause you to make further promises that you can't fulfill? Three strips in three days is pretty ambitious considering that you barely managed to hit that many since returning to Achewood in November. No wait, I'm a big gay baby for daring to expect, as a fan, that you might deliver on a promise that you foolishly made in writing. Also, why doesn't he just post weekly or monthly updates that include one of the recipes from the mythical second cookbook? At this point I don't think anyone who tossed money in for that actually expects to see a return on their investment, and at least in this way he could do the bare minimum to address one of the biggest criticisms leveled against him while also doing it gently so as not to excite his depression.
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Feb 2, 2012 08:07
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homeless poster posted:Oh no Onstad did your depression cause you to make further promises that you can't fulfill? Three strips in three days is pretty ambitious considering that you barely managed to hit that many since returning to Achewood in November. No wait, I'm a big gay baby for daring to expect, as a fan, that you might deliver on a promise that you foolishly made in writing. But if he gives away his recipes to fans, he won't be able to sell them to media outlets in his never-ending quest to become a food critic.
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Feb 2, 2012 08:15
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mysterious frankie posted:Honestly, I don't think he would. Maybe back in the day, but now, I dunno. I think not communicating often with fans is sort of his way of keeping a wall between himself and us, so he doesn't find himself back in the situation he was in, where he had no life and was constantly churning out new content for a community that would work him to death if allowed. Oh boo hoo, poor little manchild couldn't just say that he'll be slowing down the update ratio or fans will beat him up. The reason Onstad's got so much bad will built up is because he was never once honest with the fanbase about what was going on behind the scenes. He'd say a new strip is coming, then it wouldn't come. He'd promise he'd update more regularly, and then wouldn't. He'd even give specific dates for when new content was coming up, then nothing would materialize. At no point did he ever say "I need to take a break from Achewood" or "We're on hiatus" or "No updates for a while.". He kept the tip jar and the premium submission scheme up throughout, which sort of became exploitative when combined with the unfulfilled promises of new content. "New strip monday? Here's five bucks!" *no new strip* He also loving stole money from his audience because of the cookbook thing, and then when people started grumbling about how he kept making promises he never kept, begging for donations, scamming people out of their money, and all the while not telling anyone a single goddamn thing that could make them sympathetic to why he was doing all this horseshit, he blamed the fans. He turned on these people he had strung along, exploited, left in the dark, left worried, on the people who had loving supported him financially for a vast portion of his adult life and he called them sociopaths and assholes. So, you know, gently caress Chris Onstad and whatever problems he has. He gave his loyal fans grief instead of apologies after screwing them over repeatedly.
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Feb 2, 2012 08:21
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All good points, however something to consider is: NEW STRIP IS UP! Man, that felt good 
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Feb 2, 2012 09:47
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Why does the toilet have two tanks? Why does the toilet have two tanks?
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Feb 2, 2012 12:14
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basx posted:Why does the toilet have two tanks? One is a backup tank, in case of drama pipes.
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Feb 2, 2012 15:26
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Jerusalem posted:All good points, however something to consider is: Why did I laugh There is no joke. Absolutely none. But when the toilet changed in the last panel I laughed and never in a million years could I explain why
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Feb 2, 2012 16:08
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basx posted:Why does the toilet have two tanks? For extra large achievements. Or maybe even Ray's subconscious is kind of an idiot about basic things. The positive: The silhouetted house in the middle panel is really cool looking. The negative: I wish he'd wrap this up soon, so we can get some other characters back in on the action. I assume the house dismantling itself is an indication of that. In general, I hope Achewood doesn't become exclusively about different characters having phantasmagorical midlife crises. The question: Who was that on their stair? Was it Ray in two places at once, due to dream logic? Is it a representation of Roast Beef's voice, which has found its way into his hallucination? Maybe a vision of his father? Pat, looking for long sought after revenge for the pork pie hat incident? A naked Dr. Andretti? I NEED TO KNOW!
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Feb 2, 2012 16:44
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As far as the "Chris Onstad: sympathetic or villainous?" debate goes I feel like the cookbook thing is the only real black mark against him. The tip jar's stated purpose is just to keep the archives up, he's not promising new content to donors so the idea that they've been bilked when they don't receive it is ill-founded. The cookbook thing is totally bad but, as mentioned, I also very much understand how a guy with depression could just slink away from that subject in shame and find himself unable to open the book on it again.
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Feb 2, 2012 17:15
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Android Blues posted:The cookbook thing is totally bad but, as mentioned, I also very much understand how a guy with depression could just slink away from that subject in shame and find himself unable to open the book on it again. I can understand it too but tough loving titty. He entered into a business agreement in which money was exchanged. "I was sad" or whatever does not excuse loving over a customer and keeping mum on the subject.
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Feb 2, 2012 17:20
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Jerusalem posted:All good points, however something to consider is: I really would like a t-shirt with that disintegrating house on it.
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Feb 2, 2012 20:48
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Onstad totally shot himself in the foot on this one. He had it made, he had a (relatively) popular comic with an audience begging to buy his merchandise, even esoteric things like cookbooks or character blog entries that no other webcomic author could get away with selling. Then he totally threw all that away when he ripped off his customers and nearly killed his comic. I mean, who on earth will buy any of his stuff in the future when he's already ripped people off so much? Who would even want to buy achewood merchandise when we don't even know if it'll still be updating a month from now? Achewood merchandise is basically like this: http://achewood.com/index.php?date=09112006 He could've cut back his update schedule, gone on hiatus, started a brand new comic or even just phoned in lovely comics until his creativity came back, but instead he just up and abandoned everything. I think Onstad pretty clearly had the intention of quitting webcomics forever and cutting all ties, but then whatever he had planned didn't work out or wasn't as fulfilling, so now he's back.
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Feb 2, 2012 23:01
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Achewood's coming to an ignominious end. Between Onstad's depression and his inability to let things go, he'll probably just keep picking the comic up to do half-hearted non-sequitur strips like these before dropping it again, and so on and so on, until his finances finally cave in.
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Feb 2, 2012 23:10
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Coach Sport posted:Onstad totally shot himself in the foot on this one. He had it made, he had a (relatively) popular comic with an audience begging to buy his merchandise, even esoteric things like cookbooks or character blog entries that no other webcomic author could get away with selling. Then he totally threw all that away when he ripped off his customers and nearly killed his comic. I mean, who on earth will buy any of his stuff in the future when he's already ripped people off so much? Who would even want to buy achewood merchandise when we don't even know if it'll still be updating a month from now? Achewood merchandise is basically like this: http://achewood.com/index.php?date=09112006 He's stated he doesn't want to sell merch ever again, so it's a moot point. I think his given reason was that the dollar turnover on, say, a shirt or self published book was negligible when compared with the amount of work and hassle it took to get it made in the first place. I'm sure the fact that the last time he tried running a merchandizing arm of his business, he ended up stealing money and hasn't found a good way to make that better has a little to do with it but, you know... conjecture. He's also outright stated, at least in the Google interview, that he thinks his clothing line is tacky and never liked the idea in the first place, only caving once demand was overwhelming, so... I dunno. My shoulders don't go up high enough to permit me to give the sort of shrug I feel like this whole thing deserves.
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Feb 2, 2012 23:11
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Dominion posted:Onstad is literally Roast Beef. Is that also why he always looks fatter than I pictured him being in photos? OHHHHHHHHHH, SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!
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Feb 2, 2012 23:17
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mysterious frankie posted:He's also outright stated, at least in the Google interview, that he thinks his clothing line is tacky and never liked the idea in the first place, only caving once demand was overwhelming, so... I dunno. My shoulders don't go up high enough to permit me to give the sort of shrug I feel like this whole thing deserves. Tacky? But what about the classic "Pictures of girls in underwear winning a different contest"? Achewood is nothing if not the height of class. e: for reference, here's most of the apparel options he offered 
Darthemed fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Feb 3, 2012 |
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Feb 2, 2012 23:23
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Darthemed posted:Tacky? But what about the classic "Pictures of girls in underwear winning a different contest"? Achewood is nothing if not the height of class. Onstad is nothing if not consistent in his inconsistency. EDIT: Also, I wouldn't assume his version of tacky matches yours. Dude dresses like he runs an upscale strip club for the mafia... which is how Teodor dresses when he's trying to attract women. poo poo, that nut just cracked clear in half, didn't it?
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Feb 2, 2012 23:36
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Selling merch yourself sucks, just get Topatoco to do it for you like everyone else does.
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Feb 2, 2012 23:38
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It really is all a huge missed opportunity. I still remember when he did a book signing in Brooklyn. There was a line around the block. He was signing crap for hours. If you can't monetize that into something long term, well you only have yourself to blame.
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Feb 3, 2012 04:51
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Yeah, if he was not making money on the demand he had, he is just terrible at handling it then. When people are lining up for book signings, that means make more books, not become a recluse and stop production. To me this has all the earmarks of someone having a good business model but never bothering to learn how to run a business. he then stressed himself out packing glasses he made no profit on while then not having time to sell more shirts or books that consist of content that already existed.
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Feb 3, 2012 05:36
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Again, interesting points are raised, but as a counterpoint.... NEW STRIP IS UP! I'll have to relook at this one when the "Triptych" is complete to get a better sense of how well it works or doesn't. I don't think it's "funny" beyond the absurdity of the situation, but I love the visual look and the silhouettes of Ray in the first strip and now this one have me particularly interested.
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Feb 3, 2012 11:22
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Jerusalem posted:I'll have to relook at this one when the "Triptych" is complete to get a better sense of how well it works or doesn't. I don't think it's "funny" beyond the absurdity of the situation, but I love the visual look and the silhouettes of Ray in the first strip and now this one have me particularly interested. So October 18 2010 was the last strip of the Nice Pete Goes to High School series. This is followed by three long form comics that feature Roast Beef being depressed, and one where Teodor's sexuality is again questioned. Next there's two meta-joke strips, one which makes fun of the fact that the economy was still doing poorly, and another that makes fun of the fact that Chris' depression has prevented him from making more Achewood. In total, that's six comics in roughly a year span, and all of them are in the long form which I imagine takes a while to produce. Why count all that up? Well, I agree with your above statement that the current run of comics aren't really funny in any kind of objective sense, and I think the problem is two-fold. He's gotten away from having shorter, punchy comics that are basically just the set-up for a punchline, or make some kind of humorous observation about something that happens in real life. He's also gotten into this weird mode where everything that's actually an attempt at a story (and not just a one off about Roast Beef being mad about Depression) is all meta and abstract and largely nonsensical. That worked fine for the strip when those meta stories were like once a year mixed in with the otherwise crass and lowbrow humor that Achewood normally presented, but it just feels jarring now without any kind of punchline to move it along. Even the Nice Pete Goes to High School series had a FYF and a Great Moments In Cinema to break up the tension.
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Feb 3, 2012 17:31
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"I have a prince albert" was fantastic.
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Feb 3, 2012 17:40
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Am I mixing up Achewood continuity with something else, or was Henrietta the name of the fever-dream chicken prostitute from way back?
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Feb 3, 2012 18:26
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I get this feeling that the punchline is coming tonight, which is why he held off on releasing these until he had all three finished and could push out one a day, instead of one every 7-10 days. That's my hope, at least. Please don't prove me wrong, Onstad. Give me some funny animals saying hilarious things tonight, instead of line drawings of buildings you found on GIS, paired with dialogue that reads like a passable English translation of some German abstract expressionist film from the 60s.
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Feb 3, 2012 18:39
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ManiacClown posted:Am I mixing up Achewood continuity with something else, or was Henrietta the name of the fever-dream chicken prostitute from way back? Ray's chick didn't have a name, Roast Beef's was Cynthia e: I think the second comic might explain a lot about Achewood recently. Where is Gary? Dammit, get him in here <  >
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Feb 3, 2012 19:46
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Yeah, if he was not making money on the demand he had, he is just terrible at handling it then. When people are lining up for book signings, that means make more books, not become a recluse and stop production. To me this has all the earmarks of someone having a good business model but never bothering to learn how to run a business. he then stressed himself out packing glasses he made no profit on while then not having time to sell more shirts or books that consist of content that already existed. Achewood didn't start out as a business model or even a business at all. It seems like what happened with him shutting down the store was him not liking how Achewood had morphed as it went a long and perhaps a fear of being a sellout. This isn't really to defend him since he stole money from people and he should probably be brought to court over that or something, but other than that I can't be mad at him. He seems to have been in a situation that he wasn't comfortable with and had no idea how to react too, so he just walked away.
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Feb 3, 2012 20:00
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mysterious frankie posted:He's stated he doesn't want to sell merch ever again, so it's a moot point. I think his given reason was that the dollar turnover on, say, a shirt or self published book was negligible when compared with the amount of work and hassle it took to get it made in the first place. Is he doing something wrong? I thought merchandise was where webcartoonists actually got most of their webcomic income from. Maybe I'm misremembering.
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Feb 3, 2012 20:37
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Is he doing something wrong? I thought merchandise was where webcartoonists actually got most of their webcomic income from. Maybe I'm misremembering. It is, because most artists don't want to put out a tip jar and rely solely on people giving up their money for the ephemeral concept of "thanks". Instead, they figure out who they can find to make quality merch and take home maybe 10% of that. Onstad sorta figured out (correctly) that you can spend zero effort with a tip jar and take home 100% of what people feel your poo poo is worth, compared to even paying a company to sell merch for you. It's either merch or ads or both for most webcomics, I don't know a whole lot of popular ones that can't make a living selling books and junk. But again, 
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Feb 3, 2012 20:49
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I thought the scrabble comic was extremely funny ("I have a Prince Albert" was hilarious), I was referring to the first two parts of this Triptych which have been funny in an absurdist way, but haven't actually told any jokes - the third and final part will probably put everything into context but it remains to be seen if it will be funny or just wonderfully hosed up. Once a more consistent flow of comics start coming out, I'm sure we'll get more "standard" funny strips, which will make me very happy. I think part of the "problem" with Achewood at the moment is that there's been so little in the last few months that every new strip is over-examined or has too high expectations attached. The solution to this, of course, is for more strips to be consistently delivered so we can all put the hiatus behind us and just look forward to each new strip for its own sake.
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Feb 3, 2012 23:10
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csammis posted:Ray's chick didn't have a name, Roast Beef's was Cynthia Ray's chicken prostitute is the most depressing, genuinely distressing webcomic I've read. Every time I read it, I can't help but look like Ray does in the last panels 
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Feb 3, 2012 23:29
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For all my bitching, a goddamn strip where Beef and Ray converse over Ray's counter would make me very, very happy. I love the one off strips.
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Feb 4, 2012 09:20
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I know everyone is going to be shocked, but Onstad won't be keeping the schedule he set for himself. The message regarding the 3 strips in 3 days has now been changed: "2/2/2012: A new strip triptych posting Wednesday, Thursday, and (this weekend). (Got a little too ambitous.)"
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Feb 4, 2012 12:01
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Madrox posted:I know everyone is going to be shocked, but Onstad won't be keeping the schedule he set for himself. The message regarding the 3 strips in 3 days has now been changed: Changing the text counts as an update. He's off the hook for the next 20 days.
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Feb 4, 2012 17:44
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He's already established that he's willing to just drop the comic in the middle of a plot for upwards of a month, I feel like he'd frustrate his fans less if he dropped two comics without explanation and then went another month before dropping another, than when he puts his foot in his mouth and promises poo poo to which he has no intention of committing.
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Feb 5, 2012 04:52
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homeless poster posted:He's already established that he's willing to just drop the comic in the middle of a plot for upwards of a month, I feel like he'd frustrate his fans less if he dropped two comics without explanation and then went another month before dropping another, than when he puts his foot in his mouth and promises poo poo to which he has no intention of committing. Achewood seems like it's being used more as a vehicle for fine tuning writing or other artistic endeavors at this point- see the sketchbook pages he posted sporadically in the fanflow for several months, and this most recent crop of strips which seem more like a drawing exercise than a real arc. Similarly the Teodor party story and golfing with Ray seem like writing exercises, far more developed than most of the older journal entries. I don't think it's ever been a secret that Chris harbors animosity towards his own comic fanbase. A lot of the alt text and a sentiment probably most bluntly communicated here http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=01112008 seem like he assumes he's courting internet crazies and webcomic enthusiasts who don't understand his art for revenue. Which is still of course no excuse for flippantly ripping off so many people, but I'm just trying to make sense of his mentality. Did you guys see this subtle jab at Tony Millionaire? https://twitter.com/achewood/status/155077306774331392 Yeah these are two cartoonists who really don't seem like they'd get each other at all. I can't even remember why they started working together.
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Feb 5, 2012 13:20
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Also lol what is this goony nonsense he follows on twitter? https://twitter.com/Tanukipdx/ Good luck with your food critic gig Chris 
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Feb 5, 2012 13:33
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