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Lobok posted:I thought this was both a duplicate and a typo, but no, there is somebody actually called Luuke Skywalker. I don't think I could ever read that without hearing "LuuUUUUke" like how the cartoon dog says "CoooOOOOkie Crisp!" Well dammit now I'm never not going to read that without hearing "cooOOOOkie crisp" either! And shouldn't that list also include Han Solo then? He cut open a maggot-infested tauntaun with it after all.
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Jan 30, 2012 19:13
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Well dammit now I'm never not going to read that without hearing "cooOOOOkie crisp" either! It's not like he ever owned the thing, though. He just used it. edit: Although, looking at that list again, ownership doesn't really seem like a prerequisite.
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Jan 30, 2012 19:22
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I've got a question for anybody who read Plagieus. I'm going to spoiler-text it just in case. In the course of the book it is implied that Anakin was not created by either Sidious or his Master, but he literally just sprung fourth via the will of the Force. But why did they decide to go this route? Plagieus obviously had the ability to create a being such as Anakin, why suddenly cop-out and ignore that very important plot point just to shoehorn it into the drat prophecy?
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Jan 31, 2012 09:51
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What I gathered from that was Plagieus and Sidious attemped to force a being into creation. They failed but as a result tipped the balance of the Force to the Dark Side. They were pretty ok with this as a consolidation prize. As a reaction to their meddling to Force created it's own being to both bring back the proper balance and as a nice gently caress you to the sith. I honestly like this interpretation more than "Anakin was made by Sith magic!" It still has the Sith directly responsible for his birth but makes his birth a otherworldly reaction to the Sith instead of a direct result.
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Jan 31, 2012 15:12
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NinjaPete posted:What I gathered from that was Plagieus and Sidious attemped to force a being into creation. They failed but as a result tipped the balance of the Force to the Dark Side. They were pretty ok with this as a consolidation prize. As a reaction to their meddling to Force created it's own being to both bring back the proper balance and as a nice gently caress you to the sith. This is what I took from it, mostly. From what I recall, they briefly mentioned Plagueis and Sidious "tipping the balance" of the force to the Dark. Then it is referenced again, but never do they outright detail this Sith magic force tipping ceremony. Or I may have forgotten about it. Or it may have referenced another Luceno book (like the Eriadu summit and Maul's mission) that I have not read. On that note, 75% through Cloak of Deception and it is pretty good. I love politics, and it's great to have Palpatine working behind the scenes (as I know from reading Plagueis first of course) but not actually saying "hey he is responsible"...unless that is revealed at the end, of course. All we get is "our adviser told us to do it this way." The subtlety is refreshing.
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Jan 31, 2012 18:19
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McGann posted:This is what I took from it, mostly. I think this is one of the details that came from Lucas. I remember this also being brought up in one of the old prequel-era reference works, also.
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Jan 31, 2012 18:43
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Lobok posted:I thought this was both a duplicate and a typo, but no, there is somebody actually called Luuke Skywalker. I don't think I could ever read that without hearing "LuuUUUUke" like how the cartoon dog says "CoooOOOOkie Crisp!" I really want to know what Zhan went with this. Was it something the studio demanded or what?
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Feb 1, 2012 09:52
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Darth Freddy posted:I really want to know what Zhan went with this. Was it something the studio demanded or what? I think it was more likely just a badly thought out way of differentiating between the original person and the clone. Their names were the same, both the clone and the original called themselves Luke Skywalker. But to make the novel readable, Zhan added the extra vowel. So you don't run into "Luke Skywalker slashes his saber at Luke Skywalker!" Poorly thought out, but I understand what he must have been thinking when he did it.
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Feb 1, 2012 10:43
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Esroc posted:I think it was more likely just a badly thought out way of differentiating between the original person and the clone. Their names were the same, both the clone and the original called themselves Luke Skywalker. But to make the novel readable, Zhan added the extra vowel. So you don't run into "Luke Skywalker slashes his saber at Luke Skywalker!" No remember, Thrawn noticed how Joruus C'Baoth or whatever added an extra "u" in his name and deduced that is how he was a clone. Apparently clones have speech impediments or something.
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Feb 1, 2012 16:21
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Did all the clone troopers identify themselves as Jaango Fett? Also, has everybody here seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwG5j9KdHWk
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Feb 1, 2012 17:07
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I always wondered what would have happened if the army was cloned from a Force sensitive. Welp, I think I may have just crossed into "fan fiction" right there.
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Feb 2, 2012 03:52
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No, pretty sure you crossed into The Force Unleashed II.
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Feb 2, 2012 03:55
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omg car crash posted:I always wondered what would have happened if the army was cloned from a Force sensitive. I think most of the EU writers in the 90s thought that the clones in the Clone Wars were Dark Jedi clones. I think it's stated by Pellaeon in in Heir to the Empire.
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Feb 2, 2012 04:16
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So I happened across this while looking over the forums earlier... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69ftWNg97U Please enjoy every aspect of the Prequels highlighted for your viewing pleasure. I suppose it's Episode 1 marketed specifically at the Disney Channel demo.
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Feb 2, 2012 05:09
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Chairman Capone posted:I think most of the EU writers in the 90s thought that the clones in the Clone Wars were Dark Jedi clones. I think it's stated by Pellaeon in in Heir to the Empire. Yeah. Remember that Zahn wrote about clones and the Spaarti cylinders and stuff long before Lucas came up with his own ideas for the Clone Wars. As a kid reading Heir to the Empire, etc, I was always under the impression that there were these grandiose battles between crazed clones led by Dark Jedi against the Republic or whatnot. Naturally it figures the Emperor would have appropriated "one of the old clonemaster facilities" for storage at Mt. Tantiss (yes, apparently the "clone wars" was pretty common knowledge. And yet people just somehow forgot all about cloning technology unless it was plot relevant. Or the planet of weird tofu-eating clones of Dorsk 81 or something equally dumb KJA came up with). Anyways, the clones were written back then as baddies I believe, and suddenly with Episode II they are good dudes, at least initially. Also a lot of the clones suffered the chance of going insane according to Zahn/Pellaeon/etc, which I'm sure doesn't help things when you're cloning a Dark Jedi 
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Feb 2, 2012 16:45
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movax posted:Yeah. Remember that Zahn wrote about clones and the Spaarti cylinders and stuff long before Lucas came up with his own ideas for the Clone Wars. As a kid reading Heir to the Empire, etc, I was always under the impression that there were these grandiose battles between crazed clones led by Dark Jedi against the Republic or whatnot. Naturally it figures the Emperor would have appropriated "one of the old clonemaster facilities" for storage at Mt. Tantiss (yes, apparently the "clone wars" was pretty common knowledge. And yet people just somehow forgot all about cloning technology unless it was plot relevant. Or the planet of weird tofu-eating clones of Dorsk 81 or something equally dumb KJA came up with). IIRC the cloning cylinders were not forgotten out of neglect; they were outlawed. The Emperor managed to obtain a secret stash. Clone madness resulted from clones being grown too quickly. Thrawn hypothesizes that it had to do with the Force, hence his solution of using those yslamiri lizard things that negated the force around them so he could rapidly grow armies. This was also why Luke detected something weird about the new Stormtroopers, as the Force hadn't made an impression on their minds during development. I loved the Zahn trilogy, and the plot devices all fit well (including the lost dreadnought fleet), but the lizards never really rang true for the universe to me. Yoda says life generates the Force and makes it grow, so simply being close to a lizard shouldn't cut you off.
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Feb 2, 2012 18:39
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McGann posted:So I happened across this while looking over the forums earlier... Holy poo poo, what's the opposite of a highlight reel? Because that would be what I just watched. Everything soulless and wrong about Menace summed up in 1:45 with an obnoxious voiceover. I'm starting to rethink my decision to buy tickets in advance.
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Feb 2, 2012 23:53
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Derek Dominoe posted:I loved the Zahn trilogy, and the plot devices all fit well (including the lost dreadnought fleet), but the lizards never really rang true for the universe to me. Yoda says life generates the Force and makes it grow, so simply being close to a lizard shouldn't cut you off. As much as I dislike the midi-chlorians, I thought their introduction could have given a more reasonable explanation for how the yslamiri created their force-bubble (they don't have midichlorians, they have anti-chlorians, something along those lines) but I don't think any author is really eager to explore more in depth just how the ysalamir do what they do. You know, speaking of that, I'm surprised Traviss didn't try and have one of her books feature Mandalorians making a bio-weapon that targets midi-chlorians and wipes out all the Jedi.
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Feb 3, 2012 00:59
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Derek Dominoe posted:IIRC the cloning cylinders were not forgotten out of neglect; they were outlawed. The Emperor managed to obtain a secret stash. Hmm, possibly, I don't remember either. It just seems to me that with cloning cylinders being such an awesome technology that any power-hungry person worth his/her salt would be all over that poo poo. When did laws stop anyone anyways... quote:Clone madness resulted from clones being grown too quickly. Thrawn hypothesizes that it had to do with the Force, hence his solution of using those yslamiri lizard things that negated the force around them so he could rapidly grow armies. This was also why Luke detected something weird about the new Stormtroopers, as the Force hadn't made an impression on their minds during development. Yeah, I remember that being :thrawn: as gently caress. If I (sadly) remember the numbers correctly, he had what, like 20,000 cylinders that he could grow a new clone to maturity in 20 days? That's quite the military force. I think the ysalamari were written has having evolved the ability to push-back the force because of vornskrs/predators, but Star Wars xenobiology has never been that good.
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Feb 3, 2012 16:32
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Chairman Capone posted:As much as I dislike the midi-chlorians, I thought their introduction could have given a more reasonable explanation for how the yslamiri created their force-bubble (they don't have midichlorians, they have anti-chlorians, something along those lines) but I don't think any author is really eager to explore more in depth just how the ysalamir do what they do. Apparently midichlorians are essential to life because everyone has them - even Boba Fett. So it would be like creating a weapon to target red blood cells or something. Speaking of which - did anyone else get a good laugh out of Troy Denning's "gently caress you!" to Miss Traviss by making it so that Boba Fett can never go back to Mandalore?
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Feb 3, 2012 16:38
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In the process reintroducing something so astoundingly awful back into the forefront of the Star Wars universe that he himself should be dragged out back and shot. Because if a nanovirus can attack the Fett genome to such an extent that both Boba Fett and his granddaughter can be killed, then all the other clones are dead as well. And if such a weapon could exist in Star Wars, with its relatively low cost, then why the need for massive space stations, island-sized planetary siege ships, etc.?
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Feb 3, 2012 20:45
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Has it ever been mentioned in the EU or anything why the Jedi weren't unconfortable around clones, particularly in battle? Wouldn't it feel bizarre to be surrounded by people who (I assume) "feel" identical in the Force? Wouldn't it mess with their head to feel the same death over and over hundreds or thousands of times during the course of some planetary battle?
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Feb 3, 2012 20:58
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Arschlochkind posted:Has it ever been mentioned in the EU or anything why the Jedi weren't unconfortable around clones, particularly in battle? Wouldn't it feel bizarre to be surrounded by people who (I assume) "feel" identical in the Force? Wouldn't it mess with their head to feel the same death over and over hundreds or thousands of times during the course of some planetary battle? They might not feel identical, though. Clones may start off exactly the same, but from the moment they're created (born? hatched? whatever) they gain new experiences and become their own person. They'd begin to have their own personality. So, I would imagine, they don't feel exactly the same in the Force.
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Feb 3, 2012 21:03
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WOOH WOOH Apocalypse comes out in a little over a month. Space Cthulhu has just been elected Chief of State, and I'm curious as to how Troy Denning could possibly make this any worse. Deep down I know he'll find a way. I'm also curious if they're going to announce another multi-author series to continue the flow of bad ideas. 
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Feb 3, 2012 21:39
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Denning is writing the finale? Goddamnit. The loving EU newbie who's only previous experience came from Voyager novels wrote more entertaining books FFS.
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Feb 3, 2012 22:30
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The entire Fate of the Jedi series has read like some High-Schooler's crappy fan-fiction. And it pisses me off even more because the idea of booting out Luke Skywalker and holding the Jedi accountable for those who fall to the darkside could have been a great idea if handled correctly. Plus, Daala as Head of State? What were they snorting when they came up with that idea?
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Feb 4, 2012 03:29
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Denning is writing the finale? Goddamnit. Somebody dig up Crix getting shot again, my PC is in the shop being repaired.
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Feb 4, 2012 04:29
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 I'm thinking he might just manage to make Fate worse than Legacy. So far it's been far more stupid than depressing, whereas Legacy was stupid and depressing in usually pretty equal measures.
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Feb 4, 2012 04:39
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Esroc posted:Plus, Daala as Head of State? What were they snorting when they came up with that idea? This is actually the most insulting thing about Legacy of the Force for me. More than Jacen turning dark, more than the blatant prequel rip-offs, and more than Traviss' Mandalorian bullshit. Daala becoming chief of state, and everyone calmly accepting it, was just so downright insulting to me - it was basically as close as Denning and the Lucasfilm people could come to literally flipping the bird to their readers. It was them directly saying they didn't care about making a plot that actually made any sort of sense. Characterization? Continuity? Logic? We know that we can poo poo all over them - and you're all too stupid to care! And the saddest thing is that they were proven completely right. I may be wrong, but haven't all the Legacy and Fate books been NYT best sellers? Anyway, Daala becoming chief of state was what made me decide to never buy another Star Wars book again. If I can't get it used or at the library, I'm not going to read it. As much as I may like the authors (and I was sorely tempted to buy Plagueis because it's really loving good), I don't want any of my money to go to helping fund Lucasbooks. Anyway, on another tangent, I was browsing TFN and came across this gem. It's some guy sharing his reflections on The Phantom Menace in light of the 3D release. It's as laudatory as you might expect something on TFN to be. This was my favorite part: quote:Seeing the film for the first time at midnight on May 19, 1999, was equally amazing and awkward. Amazing because we had all waited sixteen years for this moment, and we all got to see it happen together. Amazing that we no longer had to speculate about how Anakin and Obi-Wan met, why Obi-Wan thought he could train him just as well as Yoda, and most importantly, amazing that we finally got to meet Luke and Leia’s mother. The future Mrs. Skywalker, Padmé Naberrie Amidala. Awkward in how we now had to adjust to having something new that we didn’t know as intimately as the other chapters of the Star Wars saga. Yes, the reason that The Phantom Menace was so disliked is because fans couldn't quote the entire movie immediately. And now that everyone can quote it, it's universally accepted as an excellent film! What a wonderful alternate dimension he must inhabit.
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Feb 4, 2012 05:11
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Jesus loving Christ I can't even loving fathom the levels of cognitive loving dissonance that have to happen in someone's skull for them to be that loving self-deluded. That poo poo is so loving far out that it actually makes me angry. I'm angry about someone liking Star Wars, and now I'm angry that I'm angry about someone liking Star Wars. Maybe it's because he's not even apologetic about his love of The Phantom loving Menace, he honestly thinks it's a good, worthwhile and not completely lovely movie. He thinks that everyone else shares his deluded loving opinion. I can't imagine what this man's world looks like. When I got to the part where he defended Attack of the Clones I think I had a minor stroke. Even his profile picture can't believe what the gently caress this guy just said: "Oh, God, what the gently caress have I become?!?"
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Feb 4, 2012 05:20
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"...Matter of fact, with all the spare time I now have that I don’t have to defend The Phantom Menace I can put more of a focus on defending Attack Of The Clones..." He's doing real important work, like he's working on getting innocent people out of jail. After another couple of decades, hopefully he'll complete his life's work and some flicks about space wizards and laser swords will have been successfully defended.
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Feb 4, 2012 06:37
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Christ you guys are bitter. Let the guy enjoy the prequels if he wants to. To each his own and all that
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Feb 4, 2012 09:31
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Chairman Capone posted:(and I was sorely tempted to buy Plagueis because it's really loving good) To be honest, I wasn't that impressed with the Plagueis book. I was nice to see a backstory for Palpatine, and Luceno definitely has a knack for introducing a somewhat believable political backstory into the simple "disagreement about the taxation of trade routes" stuff, but... ...yeah, it's extremely well researched and ties in nicely with a whole other lot of EU stuff, including of course his own books, but also the comics and even the Clone Wars TV show. But a lot of it comes across as senseless name-dropping or worse, showing off how clever you are. Ultimately, a lot of times it violates the Chekhov's Gun principle: If the author takes the time to show something and describe it with a lot of words, you assume that this thing will be important later - which happens in the book A LOT. Valorum's aide/lover is just one example that springs to mind. Then there's a lot of violation of the "show, don't tell" rule. Yes, I read the "Jedi Council: Acts of War" comic book. But would it kill the author to retell a bit of the important parts of that story instead of just making small references to events which obviously play a large role in moving the story of THIS book forward? "The Yinchorri attacked Coruscant, but they were repelled. Some Jedi died." (OK, there's more description in the novel, but that's more or less what it felt like) At times I felt as if I was watching, I don't know, a Godzilla movie that consisted of nothing but people pointing upward and out of the window going "there's a giant monster destroying everything!" and we never see it. At the end a soldier runs in and goes, "Good news! We killed it!" I'm sure James Luceno did a ton of research for the book, but he can't resist showing off this knowledge. Again, this is not an actual quote, just an example. What you need to have your character say: "I heard the Sith are an order of dark side Force users." What he could to say to please EU fans: "I heard the the Sith are an order of dark side Force users, like those Nightsisters on Dathomir." What Luceno has him say to show how well he's done his research: "I heard the the Sith are an order of dark side Force users, like the Nightsisters on Dathomir, the Jensaarai, the Bando Gora or the Sorcerers of Tund." That's not to say that the book doesn't have awesome sequences. But a lot of times I felt not like someone was telling me a story, but someone was telling me about some stuff that happened in other books, and I almost wished the novel had little annotations like superhero comics: "* see Labyrinth of Evil, chapter 6 - Jaunty James" I'm sure hardcore EU fans enjoy the book for everything it ties together, but a casual reader who knows little to nothing about Star Wars apart from the movies should have a difficult time wading through it. I've read pretty much all the comics and about 20 of the novels, and I felt lost at times. tl; dr: Darth Plagueis is not as great a read as many people claim.
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Feb 4, 2012 10:58
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I'll admit that Plagieus might be a hard read for someone not well-versed in the EU. But you have to admit that by this point, people not caught up with the EU probably shouldn't be picking up a brand new novel and expecting it to make complete sense. It's not written for new readers, it's for those of us who still cough up cash for every new novel/comic book that is released. From that point of view I quite enjoyed its references to other EU works. When it mentioned certain battles and events, I'd get to go "ooo! ooo! I remember that!" and feel all special. No, I do not have sex very often. Why do you ask?
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Feb 4, 2012 13:42
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Dave Syndrome posted:But a lot of it comes across as senseless name-dropping or worse, showing off how clever you are. I've completed about 60% of it and while I'm mostly enjoying it and and surprising myself with the amount of EU references I recognize from other books and comics, the namedropping definitely touches on "annoying's" doorstop. He also "connects" everything to these existing names which I know has been Lucas's wont for the past 30 years but somewhat unsatisfying to me. Oh, Tarkin's father is a player with all of this huh? Jabba helps Plagueis? Palpatine manuvers Padme's election? Can we readers not handle new characters and independent events? To me, both the name dropping and connecting are like serving us a dinner of frosting. Finally, while on one hand I can appreciate the idea of the Grand Plan, I think having it come from Plagueis diminishes Palpatine's character; Everything we've seen in the movies is due to Palpatine following his master's plan and not coming up with it or the individual pieces on his own.
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Feb 4, 2012 14:53
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Cheesus posted:Thank you Yeah, no one can dispute this until you finish the book. Please finish the book if for no other reason than to restore Palpatine's reputation. Personally, I had not read much EU that was referenced in the book. It got me to read Cloak of Deception (well, mostly Chairman Capone's recommendation in this thread), which was even better. I'm beginning to think Luceno has a thing for (Cloak of Deception spoiler incoming) revealing the big master stroke of the plot at the end of the book, as the characters begin to understand. I had read Plagueis before Deception, and I still had a moment of "ohhh poo poo" when I realized the Trade Federation was being trapped in their own force-field for execution . Now, even though this is made pretty obvious in Plagueis - I had forgotten about it by the time I reached the end of Deception. So I didn't mind it, but I'm also a guy who has read (by normal people standards) lots of EU.
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Feb 4, 2012 16:37
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McGann posted:Yeah, no one can dispute this until you finish the book. Please finish the book if for no other reason than to restore Palpatine's reputation. Edit: Ok, that ended on a sour note to me. Is there a Palpatine book planned so we can see the events and planning from his side? Because his speech to Plagueis seemed too Scooby-Dooish to me ("Ha ha! These were all my plans and work, not yours!") with no in-book support that I can recall. Cheesus fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 4, 2012 |
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Feb 4, 2012 17:43
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Chairman Capone posted:Yes, the reason that The Phantom Menace was so disliked is because fans couldn't quote the entire movie immediately. And now that everyone can quote it, it's universally accepted as an excellent film! What a wonderful alternate dimension he must inhabit. It's actually pretty simple: To these people, good is defined strictly in terms of what is closest to Lucas' vision. This is how, despite being widely considered the best of the series, many prequel fanboys will consider it the weakest because it's the one Lucas was least involved with.
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Feb 5, 2012 06:41
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Cheesus posted:Oh I will. Despite my problems with it, I am enjoying the story and it's succeeded in keeping my nose in my new Kindle instead of television. For the most part, all the evidence for Palpatine's claim is contained in other various EU novels and comics where he is a central character. Plus, considering Plagieus more or less drops off the map midway through the book, it isn't a stretch to assume he was delusional in his idea of how much of the Grand Plan was actually his doing. Which would explain Palpatine's resentment toward him. How would you feel if some old senile codger was living as a hermit but still claimed to be doing all the work? It can also be safely assumed that there will be more novels about Palpatine's political maneuverings considering that Plagieus has seemed to be a very well received entry into the series.
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Feb 5, 2012 13:32
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I felt that Palpatines reveal to Plagueis worked rather well in regards to the rest of the story. He told Plagueis that the ideas used in their plan were mostly Palpantine's. That he just planted the seeds of the ideas so that Plagueis could bounce them back. Looking back, that seemed to be mostly true.
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Feb 5, 2012 18:21
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