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gvibes posted:Being in school is better than working. Except you have to PAY to go to school and you GET PAID to work. cmon son
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Feb 6, 2012 21:51
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PatrickKilpatrick posted:I agree with pretty much everything that everyone else has told you so far, but I just wanted to clarify that what people are telling you is not something unique to "this forum." I think that's why people are being kind of harsh with you - you literally have to have done no research to be this naive. Any law school forum - TLS, auto admit, jdu - every law school blog, every mainstream newspaper and magazine article in the last couple years, are all just as negative about going to law school. I've used TLS a ton, including the forums. And I've even read an Ask/Tell thread from a 3L there. That thread and the website on the whole is much more positive than what I've read here. I know that the employment opportunities are really bad, I've read that everywhere, and I agree. I just don't think it's quite wrist-slitting bad as everyone here is making it out to be.
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Feb 6, 2012 21:51
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Go to law school then you crazy snowflake
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Feb 6, 2012 21:53
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crankdatbatman posted:I've used TLS a ton, including the forums. And I've even read an Ask/Tell thread from a 3L there. That thread and the website on the whole is much more positive than what I've read here. I know that the employment opportunities are really bad, I've read that everywhere, and I agree. I just don't think it's quite wrist-slitting bad as everyone here is making it out to be. once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains you could see them standing in the amber current where the white edges of their fins wimpled softly in the flow. they smelled of moss in your hand polished and muscular and torsional. on their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. maps and mazes. of a thing which could not be put back. not be made right again. IN THE DEEP GLENS WHERE THEY LIVED ALL THINGS WERE OLDER THAN MAN AND THEY HUMMED OF////
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Feb 6, 2012 22:03
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If there is anything better than reading through 20 page friend of the court reports written entirely in 18 point bold italic Comic Sans, I do not wish to know what it iscrankdatbatman posted:I've used TLS a ton, including the forums.
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Feb 6, 2012 22:11
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crankdatbatman posted:I've used TLS a ton, including the forums. And I've even read an Ask/Tell thread from a 3L there. That thread and the website on the whole is much more positive than what I've read here. I know that the employment opportunities are really bad, I've read that everywhere, and I agree. I just don't think it's quite wrist-slitting bad as everyone here is making it out to be. Then you aren't reading critically enough. Law school is basically a big gamble. Some people win and get a good job. Those are the people who start threads on TLS saying "ask me about X law school." You need to look through the legal employment forum and read the threads that are like "should I drop out?" and "I'm a 3l with no job"
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Feb 6, 2012 22:18
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gvibes posted:I enjoyed law school, but I also didn't go to a ton of classes and never hung out socially with law students. Best way to go through law school, in my opinion. crankdatbatman, how do you envision your life to be post-law school? EDIT: I don't understand why students who go into law school with hard science/engineering backgrounds think they're so special. In my 1L, there was a guy in my section who introduced himself with "My name is X. I'm probably the only person who's ever done real math in this class." We've called him "Real Math X" for the past 3 years. Penguins Like Pies fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Feb 6, 2012 |
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Feb 6, 2012 22:20
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crankdatbatman posted:I've used TLS a ton, including the forums. And I've even read an Ask/Tell thread from a 3L there. That thread and the website on the whole is much more positive than what I've read here. I know that the employment opportunities are really bad, I've read that everywhere, and I agree. I just don't think it's quite wrist-slitting bad as everyone here is making it out to be. Here are a couple other data points you should consider before you make this huge mistake: -Your chem e background does not make you a unique snowflake. There are plenty of scientists and engineers going back to law school thinking they can transition into patent law because their background makes them special. While you will have access to some jobs that many of your classmates do not, these positions are limited and employers also want to see very good/great undergraduate grades as well as top law school grades. You will need to get top grades just like the rest of your class. -As several others have said, look into taking the USPTO exam and working as either a patent agent or examiner before you commit to law school. Patent agents have almost identical job descriptions patent prosecution attorneys except without the worthless JD and wasted 3 years of your life. Patent examiners make six figure incomes with good benefits, great work-life balance, and awesome job security. -Many "full ride" type scholarships come with very tough GPA requirements to maintain the scholarship. Before you go to a school offering a great scholarship, make sure you know the terms of the deal and how the classes will be curved. Some schools offer many such scholarships, fully expecting some of the students to lose the money after their first semester grades do a harsh curve.
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Feb 6, 2012 22:21
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Feces Starship posted:once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains you could see them standing in the amber current where the white edges of their fins wimpled softly in the flow. they smelled of moss in your hand polished and muscular and torsional. on their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. maps and mazes. of a thing which could not be put back. not be made right again. IN THE DEEP GLENS WHERE THEY LIVED ALL THINGS WERE OLDER THAN MAN AND THEY HUMMED OF//// I get your reference you smarty pants.
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Feb 6, 2012 22:47
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Feces Starship posted:once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains you could see them standing in the amber current... Knew I recognized this, embarrassed that I had to look it up. BRB gonna pop me open a dusty can of peaches.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:21
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Soothing Vapors posted:And suddenly everything was explained We should probably direct him to XOXO just so he can get the other side of it. crackdatbatman, We are the middle ground. TLS is filled with idiots who are convinced they'll clerk for SCOTUS if they can just ride the median at Their TOP REGIONAL SCHOOL. XOXO is filled with...just...terrible terrible people. Just listen to us. Or don't. If you do go, you better check in here when you're unemployed and 100k in debt because the school yanked your scholarship when you didn't end up in the top 20% of the class.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:25
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XOXO is filled with such terrible people one of my friends still sort of judges a good friend of hers for reading it in class in law school.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:29
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Here is a CM quote about the arbitrariness of law school grades "Far out on the desert to the north dustspouts rose wobbling and augered the earth and some said they’d heard of pilgrims borne aloft like dervishes in those mindless coils to be dropped broken and bleeding upon the desert again and there perhaps to watch the thing that had destroyed them lurch onward like some drunken djinn and resolve itself once more into the elements from which it sprang. Out of the whirlwind no voice spoke and the pilgrim lying in his broken bones may cry out and in his anguish he may rage, but rage at what? And if the dried and blackened shell of him is found among the sands by travelers to come yet who can discover the engine of his ruin?"
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Feb 6, 2012 23:30
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crankdatbatman posted:I've used TLS a ton, including the forums. And I've even read an Ask/Tell thread from a 3L there. That thread and the website on the whole is much more positive than what I've read here. I know that the employment opportunities are really bad, I've read that everywhere, and I agree. I just don't think it's quite wrist-slitting bad as everyone here is making it out to be. You really need to go to law school. Things really are awesome, and there is no glut of lawyers.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:43
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Here's one about trial lawyering The judge looked about him. He was sat before the fire naked save for his breeches and his hands rested palm down upon his knees. His eyes were empty slots. None among the company harbored any notion as to what this attitude implied, yet so like an icon was he in his sitting that they grew cautious and spoke with circumspection among themselves as if they would not waken something that had better been left sleeping.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:43
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Look, man. I'm gonna level with you. The Giants winning the Super Bowl is the greatest thing to have happened to me in the past 4 years since I was accepted into law school. Since the last Giants Super Bowl victory, I've been accepted into and graduated law school, passed the bar exam, and moved to an otherwise awesome state (Colorado). But I'm unemployed, alone, and largely unhappy with a growing alcohol tolerance that should worry me. It doesn't. None of my personal achievements in the last four years matter to me as much as they do to family and forgotten friends who will never understand. The Giants' victory over the Patriots last night marks the end of a four-year era of unhappiness and disappointment. Or so I hope. I thought the last Giants Super Bowl victory in 2008 was going to be a phenomenal milestone on the road to great things. An otherwise mediocre undergraduate experience ended with a Giants Super Bowl victory, a NCAA basketball championship (Rock Chalk Jayhawk), and was leading to a law school experience that would culminate without debt. I'd take it back now, though. Every day I thank my lucky stars I don't have the soul-crushing burden of law school debt that my fellow peers have been punished with in this poo poo economy. But law school undeniably changes a person, debt or no debt. Three years of endless self-doubt, questioning my own intellect, harboring irrational suspicion towards others because of the curve, and failing eyesight from too many nights staring at nearly-indecipherable legal text have all sucked the happiness from my life and left me unemployed with an incredibly uncertain future. Simple pleasures have fallen by the wayside. I now hate reading, even for fun. My non-law school friends have all but disappeared from memory. I have nothing to talk about with them anymore (they've all got jobs, significant others, and/or kids). Alcohol is no longer a social pleasure. It's an escape, an excuse not to think for few hours before passing out. Now I spend my days in a coffeeshop alone, hoping caffeine overdose is a real thing as I submit resume after resume, application after application to every single banal non-legal job opening I come across. I do this while envying the baristas as they laugh and socialize with customers. How do they do it? I've forgotten basic interpersonal skills, at least when it comes to non-lawyers and non-law students. When I'm not sitting alone in the coffeeshop, I run, drink, and search. I run because I hate myself and the pain feels good; it reminds me that I am still alive. I drink to escape; it dulls the aforementioned pain. But on most days, I don't know why I bother to search. I suppose I'm searching for my own personal Super Bowl victory, a victory that doesn't seem like it'll happen anytime soon. Could be worse, I guess. I could be Petey, whose Patriots lost to my Giants last night. Basically, what I'm saying is, look beyond the forums, the employment statistics and everything else you read about law school. Look in yourself and ask if you're willing to invest three years into something that could leave you penniless, alone, misanthropic, and reliant on the outcome of a sports team's luck for happiness. If you think you'll have the fortitude to get up in the morning and keep applying for jobs after that kind of introspection, then by all means go. But you'll have nothing else to live for.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:50
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Here's one about trial lawyering I used to love this book.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:55
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tau posted:words 
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Feb 7, 2012 00:01
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NJ Deac posted:Here are a couple other data points you should consider before you make this huge mistake: Also, your engineering background basically qualifies you to spend three years in law school in order to get a job that is fundamentally the same as the patent agent job you qualify for now. Patent litigators don't need an engineering background, and most firms don't actually give a poo poo about your engineering background for litigation positions. You will, if you are lucky enough to wind up with a patent job, be doing prosecution. Which you could do now. Without the three years invested.
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Feb 7, 2012 00:06
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Also in case you didn't pick up on it many of the people with the sort of job you supposedly want (biglaw rolling the $160k salary) are rather jealous of Baruch's job as a patent examiner - which he didn't need to go to law school for. Go apply to the PTO.
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Feb 7, 2012 00:08
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tau posted:Deeply personal words You think he's kidding. He is not. I have friends in big firm jobs that are loving miserable and they make bank.
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Feb 7, 2012 00:09
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tau posted:reliant on the outcome of a sports team's luck for happiness They won because they applied themselves and worked hard. If you work hard good things will happen to you, if they don't it's because you were lazy.
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Feb 7, 2012 00:09
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Go to law school because once you have first year property you can laugh louder at this story: http://gma.yahoo.com/texas-squatter-16-mcmansion-kicked-8-months-173113977--abc-news.html Plus you won't even have to pay $39.95 for an adverse possession guide that lets "'average people' learn how to 'acquire valuable real estate for free.'"
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Feb 7, 2012 00:48
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evilweasel posted:Also in case you didn't pick up on it many of the people with the sort of job you supposedly want (biglaw rolling the $160k salary) are rather jealous of Baruch's job as a patent examiner - which he didn't need to go to law school for. And the best part, if you can't hack it as an examiner, you wouldn't be able to as a patent attorney, so you just saved three years and six figures!
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Feb 7, 2012 01:21
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Tetrix posted:Go to law school because once you have first year property you can laugh louder at this story: http://gma.yahoo.com/texas-squatter-16-mcmansion-kicked-8-months-173113977--abc-news.html If I were in an area with higher foreclosure, I'd do that (with a moving company on speed dial) just to live rent-free until I get kicked out, then go from abandoned foreclosed home to abandoned foreclosed home. e: Also, if my wife would put up with the idea.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:22
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I want to thank this thread for 2 things: 1) convincing me not to go to law school until I have a written offer of promotion from my current employer. Which isn't out of the realm of possibility, but I'm just finishing up my bachelor's now and my practice LSATs have been...meh. (145, but I've been taking free practice ones, without studying). And 2) convincing me that I really, really, need to read Cormac McCarthy.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:47
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Ok, gently caress it. I'm going to look into being a patent examiner. I already drink enough and I doubt any of my sports teams are going to win a championship anytime soon.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:01
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What's best in life? To eat your pie, to see more pie before you, and to hear the lamentations of those not eating pie. I did this wrong. What I mean to say is, go to law school and enjoy your festering sense of accomplishment!
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Feb 7, 2012 02:07
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crankdatbatman posted:Ok, gently caress it. I'm going to look into being a patent examiner. I already drink enough and I doubt any of my sports teams are going to win a championship anytime soon. Do you really mean it or are you just saying that to get everyone off your back?
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Feb 7, 2012 02:13
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AA is for Quitters posted:I want to thank this thread for 2 things: 145 isn't meh, it's atrocious. For someone who has never seen the test before, and is drunk. Very drunk.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:14
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crankdatbatman posted:Ok, gently caress it. I'm going to look into being a patent examiner. I already drink enough and I doubt any of my sports teams are going to win a championship anytime soon. This is a seriously good idea: I know a few people at the PTO and their jobs are excellent and has all sorts of excellent perks. It's a really good job, not just in the dead soulless eyes of biglaw attorneys wishing they weren't at the office at 2am.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:19
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evilweasel posted:This is a seriously good idea: I know a few people at the PTO and their jobs are excellent and has all sorts of excellent perks. It's a really good job, not just in the dead soulless eyes of biglaw attorneys wishing they weren't at the office at 2am. This is also my current plan if I can't get a job at USDA, except I already went to law school.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:20
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Holland Oats posted:Do you really mean it or are you just saying that to get everyone off your back? Honestly I pretty much mean it. As much as I sound like "OH BOY LAW SCHOOL IS FOR ME/SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE!!!" in most of my posts, I have been very skeptical about debt, school qualities, and the job market. Having people throw metaphorical tomatoes at me for two pages in this thread kind of sealed the deal.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:25
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AA is for Quitters posted:my practice LSATs have been...meh. (145, but I've been taking free practice ones, without studying). I used to teach the LSAT, and I've taught students who came in with initial scores in the 140-150 range. Out of a pool of 20 students or so, none of them improved up to 160. Granted, most of them didn't study in the way that I taught them, most of them didn't do the work that I did, but even the ones who tried were unable to break 160. I am so sorry, but if you are starting at 145, you have two choices: 1. Let go of the dream of law school. 2. Study very hard, very intensely, for at least six months. For people who are not naturally good at standardized tests, this is about how long I think it takes to reprogram their brains to be better at this task.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:54
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tau posted:Last night I removed all of my subscriptions via RSS and SA anything football related so I can take some time off for awhile and forget that ever happened. Instead of my beloved sports radio this morning I drove to work listening to a CBC podcast about salt. And you had to do this to me? But fine, I'll play along. crankdatbatman, I studied theoretical legal bullshit as an undergrad. I thought I had no other option but law school. I got a full ride to a T1 in 2009. I turned it down and took a job in a field I had never before considered. Last night was the most despairing I've been since I decided not to go to law school. But you know what? In a dream last night I literally beat someone who looked a lot like a certain Manning brother to death. And I woke up weighing three pounds lighter and already feeling better. Good luck with your decision!!!!
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Feb 7, 2012 03:04
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The goal to happiness in life is apparently to watch more football.
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Feb 7, 2012 03:31
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Since we're doing quotes,tau posted:I couldn't get myself to read the want ads. The thought of sitting in front of a man behind a desk and telling him that I wanted a job, that I was qualified for a job, was too much for me. Frankly, I was horrified by life, at what a man had to do simply in order to eat, sleep, and keep himself clothed. So I stayed in bed and drank. When you drank the world was still out there, but for the moment it didn't have you by the throat. AA is for Quitters posted:I want to thank this thread for 2 things: So, what should I start with?
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Feb 7, 2012 03:32
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crankdatbatman posted:Honestly I pretty much mean it. As much as I sound like "OH BOY LAW SCHOOL IS FOR ME/SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE!!!" in most of my posts, I have been very skeptical about debt, school qualities, and the job market. Having people throw metaphorical tomatoes at me for two pages in this thread kind of sealed the deal.
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Feb 7, 2012 03:33
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joat mon posted:Since we're doing quotes, Blood Meridian is wonderful and the Judge is everything I want to be. Besides the pederasty I guess
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Feb 7, 2012 03:45
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evilweasel posted:145 isn't meh, it's atrocious. For someone who has never seen the test before, and is drunk. Very drunk. I got a 154 the first time I took the LSAT doing "self study" and slipping on ice going in to take the test.
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