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Just wondering if anyone in the industry has any idea how much experience is valued vs. education in getting IB jobs. I'm a junior currently interviewing/setting up interviews for summer analyst internships middle-market IB's with the intention to get into sell-side M&A. Even though my school has a strong finance department it is a non-target school, no major banks have campus interviews here, so all of my interviews have been set up through networking or applying through websites. Most of the places I'm applying to only have campus interviews at Ivy League colleges. Even though I don't go to a target school I do, however, have a lot of experience relevant to Investment banking. I spent nearly 6 months interning at a private equity firm, building LBO and DCF models and doing a lot of industry research. I'm just curious what the general consensus is whether the people hiring prefer people with relevant experience, or if they're primarily looking for people from target schools.
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Jan 19, 2012 18:20
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Primetime posted:Just wondering if anyone in the industry has any idea how much experience is valued vs. education in getting IB jobs. I'm a junior currently interviewing/setting up interviews for summer analyst internships middle-market IB's with the intention to get into sell-side M&A. Even though my school has a strong finance department it is a non-target school, no major banks have campus interviews here, so all of my interviews have been set up through networking or applying through websites. Most of the places I'm applying to only have campus interviews at Ivy League colleges. Banks hire non-target students, you'll just have to work harder for the opportunity which it sounds like you're doing. Network Network Network.
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Jan 19, 2012 20:33
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Primetime posted:Just wondering if anyone in the industry has any idea how much experience is valued vs. education in getting IB jobs. I'm a junior currently interviewing/setting up interviews for summer analyst internships middle-market IB's with the intention to get into sell-side M&A. Even though my school has a strong finance department it is a non-target school, no major banks have campus interviews here, so all of my interviews have been set up through networking or applying through websites. Most of the places I'm applying to only have campus interviews at Ivy League colleges. M&I has some really informative articles and interviews on this under recruiting. http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/non-target-bulge-bracket-investment-banking-offers/ http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investmentbanking is a solid place to get quick answers too. Just take it with a grain of salt because a lot of the people posting there don't know anything (like this guy!). There's a lot of really good info if you sift through the bullshit. There's plenty of people there who've gotten offers from non-targets. Sounds like the more important part is networking and putting together a good enough resume to get some face time with interviewers. From there, the balls in your court. Get more prepared than the other guy.
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Jan 20, 2012 00:33
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Thoogsby posted:Banks hire non-target students, you'll just have to work harder for the opportunity which it sounds like you're doing. Network Network Network. I'm an MD at a mid market tech M&A shop and this is right. Target schools for non-bulge is just kind of a filtering mechanism, and an admittedly lovely one, but the only one really, to sort through resumes. Education is certainly important, just happens that it's probably more important to the HR people/screeners than the bankers.. For what it's worth ..I started and sold a company early on, but went to a decent but non-ivy school for both under grad and grad... that's my vote at least.. Mr. WTF fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jan 20, 2012 |
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Jan 20, 2012 00:36
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Primetime posted:Just wondering if anyone in the industry has any idea how much experience is valued vs. education in getting IB jobs. I'm a junior currently interviewing/setting up interviews for summer analyst internships middle-market IB's with the intention to get into sell-side M&A. Even though my school has a strong finance department it is a non-target school, no major banks have campus interviews here, so all of my interviews have been set up through networking or applying through websites. Most of the places I'm applying to only have campus interviews at Ivy League colleges. I'd say experience trumps education as long as you can get an interview. Once you're in the interview room, your transaction experience will make you stand out versus some kid who hasn't lifted a finger who goes to a better school. As people have said, the problem will be getting these interviews if ibanks don't recruit at your school. I believe the consensus is that once you're accepted for an interview, they generally acknowledge you're capable of doing the job. It's now about showing your dedication to finance, your hard-working and detail oriented nature, your finance theory and financial market knowledge, and your ability to think on your feet. Your experience should help you with most of these, especially with behavioral interviews where you can point to group projects you worked on and obstacles you faced in a finance team environment. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 21:08
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Obviously this is a banking thread, but I'm curious about private equity since I know it's one possible exit strategy after a few years of experience. I'm currently seeking new employment and although I've had experience interviewing with boutique investment banks and hedge funds, I don't know very much about private equity. I'm trying to get a buddy who is a PE analyst to vouch for me in order to (hopefully) get an interview with his firm, and I just want to make sure I don't screw up a good opportunity. Would anyone here be able to answer questions for me?
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Feb 2, 2012 23:14
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air- posted:Obviously this is a banking thread, but I'm curious about private equity since I know it's one possible exit strategy after a few years of experience. I'm currently seeking new employment and although I've had experience interviewing with boutique investment banks and hedge funds, I don't know very much about private equity. I'm trying to get a buddy who is a PE analyst to vouch for me in order to (hopefully) get an interview with his firm, and I just want to make sure I don't screw up a good opportunity. Would anyone here be able to answer questions for me? It depends on your questions but I'd imagine people here could at the very least point you in the right direction if they can't directly answer your questions. What type of work are you in currently?
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Feb 3, 2012 01:37
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Thoogsby posted:It depends on your questions but I'd imagine people here could at the very least point you in the right direction if they can't directly answer your questions. What type of work are you in currently? Mostly just trying to figure out what exactly I'm getting into and what technical areas that I need to prep for the interview. I'm sure I have a lot of work to do. I work as a bank examiner right now, we're basically similar to the FDIC but our agency is much smaller. I graduated with a finance degree from a non-target school, and so did my classmate/contact at this firm. The main thing I'm curious about : how is this analyst work different than working in banking and other than the difference in work/life balance, what makes it so appealing? From what I can tell it still involves building models, performing due diligence/industry research. Does this line of work offer an opportunity to gain deeper exposure to a variety of businesses/business models compared to banking?
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Feb 3, 2012 03:25
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air- posted:Mostly just trying to figure out what exactly I'm getting into and what technical areas that I need to prep for the interview. I'm sure I have a lot of work to do. I work as a bank examiner right now, we're basically similar to the FDIC but our agency is much smaller. I graduated with a finance degree from a non-target school, and so did my classmate/contact at this firm. The main thing I'm curious about : how is this analyst work different than working in banking and other than the difference in work/life balance, what makes it so appealing? From what I can tell it still involves building models, performing due diligence/industry research. Does this line of work offer an opportunity to gain deeper exposure to a variety of businesses/business models compared to banking? You'll want to be familiar with the LBO valuation technique, backing into a value based on a desired return. It's primarily more appealing because it's more lucrative. You can make anywhere from 250-500k after two years of banking in PE, which is crazy money for a 24 year old. As to if it gives you deeper or wider exposure, it all depends on what you did in banking. If you were in a retail group you'll now be doing all industries, but if you were in lev fin or another product group it'll be the same? At the top level it's more appealing from a creativity standpoint, you're designing and choosing the deals and how to improve the targets versus pitching, advising, and rubber stamping for someone else. I can't really speculate how different it is at the junior level. I assume some of this creativity trickles down and you have a greater amount of responsibility/input in strategizing and choosing targets. Instead of finding a defensible valuation for someone else's deal you're figuring out how much your company should offer. I would guess there's a bit of a management component in how to optimize earnings and cash flows that you don't see in banking. Most importantly you answer to yourself and your colleagues not an insane client. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Feb 3, 2012 |
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Feb 3, 2012 05:07
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I should also clarify and I apologize that it wasn't clear, my past experience isn't at all similar to investment banking. It's more closer to an audit/compliance position that I took only because I had a tough time finding a job in IB/hedge funds etc. (I was a May 2008 grad). Just about everyone in Dallas was on a hiring freeze unless you had strong connections/target school alumni. I came from a non-target school and my classmate currently works there landed this PE gig straight out of school without any connections into the firm. From what I can tell, he learned everything about the valuation/modeling techniques on the job and I hope that would be the case for me too. edit: thanks. air- fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Feb 3, 2012 |
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Feb 3, 2012 05:37
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I'm not really sure what you're clarifying, we got that you worked in not banking and know what a PE analyst does. Reading the description it seems they're a PE firm that specializes in broker team/firms, so your experience might be more relevant. You might want to talk to some stock brokers or read up on it so you understand how compensation works at a broker level and from a high level perspective.
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Feb 3, 2012 07:14
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Its Miller Time posted:I'm not really sure what you're clarifying, we got that you worked in not banking and know what a PE analyst does. Reading the description it seems they're a PE firm that specializes in broker team/firms, so your experience might be more relevant. You might want to talk to some stock brokers or read up on it so you understand how compensation works at a broker level and from a high level perspective. Your other reply said "it depends on what you did in banking," so that said to me that I should give detail on my prior experience. Appreciate your responses, they really have helped a lot. Thank you! Since there's so limited information about the firm itself, I plan on researching information on their investment strategy, and this particular firm sounds like a fund of funds investor. As far as specific reading material, I'm gonna look at the Vault guide, is there anything else you'd suggest? air- fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Feb 3, 2012 |
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Feb 3, 2012 15:13
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air- posted:Your other reply said "it depends on what you did in banking," so that said to me that I should give detail on my prior experience. Appreciate your responses, they really have helped a lot. Thank you! For what it's worth, I kind of think about fund of fund investors more as a working at a mutual fund than a PE firm. PE firms invest (many times outright acquire) and restructure/manage companies to create value. Fund of funds guys just invest in existing PE funds and kind of allocate based on returns/risk. Not that what you are considering won't be a great gig, just that risk allocation, portfolio modeling, etc will be more important than company valuation and LBO modeling. There's also less comp but probably more stability in fund of funds gigs.
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Feb 3, 2012 18:27
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Mr. WTF posted:For what it's worth, I kind of think about fund of fund investors more as a working at a mutual fund than a PE firm. PE firms invest (many times outright acquire) and restructure/manage companies to create value. Fund of funds guys just invest in existing PE funds and kind of allocate based on returns/risk. Not that what you are considering won't be a great gig, just that risk allocation, portfolio modeling, etc will be more important than company valuation and LBO modeling. There's also less comp but probably more stability in fund of funds gigs. That information about risk allocation and portfolio modeling is really good to know. I initally wasn't sure how to show that my prior experience may apply (and why It's Miller Time said that), but I'm starting to see the relevance. Thank you! Much of my examination experience involves evaluating the adequacy of risk management and controls. I also did a PWM management internship and got exposure to risk allocation with individual client holdings.
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Feb 3, 2012 18:45
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air- posted:That information about risk allocation and portfolio modeling is really good to know. I initally wasn't sure how to show that my prior experience may apply (and why It's Miller Time said that), but I'm starting to see the relevance. Thank you! Much of my examination experience involves evaluating the adequacy of risk management and controls. I also did a PWM management internship and got exposure to risk allocation with individual client holdings. The M stands for management. I was speaking to the difference in industries for someone going from banking to PE. Your experience assessing the risk management sturdiness in financial institutions will be relevant given they invest in PE firms investing in brokerage teams and other wealth management groups, talk about how you could help in picking firms that are investing in banks and teams with sound strategies and controls that won't explode in the next recession cycle. As Mr. WTF said well and I missed this is a fund of funds, so it's a different skill set. The compensation isn't in the same ballpark, you can only squeeze so much in the middle after the firms take their 2/20 and make their millions. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 4, 2012 |
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Feb 4, 2012 05:30
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Got an offer yesterday as a research associate intern for a small-ish (15-20bil AUM) mostly long only equity mutual fund/asset management firm in midtown, I'm so pumped. The salary is right up there with BB IB SA pay and I think its going to be way more enjoyable. The 7 guys I met in the interview process (mostly PMs and VPs/senior analysts) were real cool guys. And drat their office was impressive. I'm accepting it as soon as it comes in the mail even though I have a Jefferies final round coming up. Anyone know long term what I'm looking at if I end up going full time in the industry after graduation? Pay as I move up? Possible exit ops if I don't? Should I take the CFA I exam my senior year if I receive and accept a full time offer at the end of the summer? If anyone works/has worked in the industry I'd love to hear what its like. Also just in general how far will $5800/month for 11 weeks get me in NYC? Right now it seems like an obscene amount of money to me but then again I go to school in an area where the cost of living is stupid low. If I'm paying 1-1.5k/mo (probably 3 mo lease, maybe 2.5mo if I can get it) in rent and invest ~$1000 in completing my professional wardrobe at the start is it possible I'll have ~3-4k left by the end to buy a used car for senior year or will cabs and Manhattan drink prices kill me? What am I looking at in income taxes? Swingline fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Feb 10, 2012 |
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Feb 10, 2012 18:21
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Swingline posted:Got an offer yesterday as a research associate intern for a small-ish (15-20bil AUM) mostly long only equity mutual fund/asset management firm in midtown, I'm so pumped. The salary is right up there with BB IB SA pay and I think its going to be way more enjoyable. The 7 guys I met in the interview process (mostly PMs and VPs/senior analysts) were real cool guys. And drat their office was impressive. I'm accepting it as soon as it comes in the mail even though I have a Jefferies final round coming up. First of all congratulations. Sounds like a cool opportunity. Second, start the CFA ASAP if this is the career you plan on pursuing (Investment Management/Research). I know my school has a scholarship where most of Level I is paid for if you are a graduating senior. See if your school has something similar. Third, I did an internship in S&T in NYC and was making $4400/month for 6 months. I was fine but I also had a little bit of help with rent from my parents. (Lived on Wall St. @ $1350/month). I don't have anything left over but I also partied more than I should have and wasn't nearly as frugal as I could have been while I was there. Don't regret it though. Cabs can kill you depending on where you live and where you go out. Drink prices will be a function of how much you drink and what type places you like to go but I would say as a hard rule don't expect to pay less than $6 a beer after tipping. It only goes up from there. I probably payed about 30% in income tax but I also haven't seen what I'm getting back yet (keep in mind NYC has its own city tax on top of federal and state).
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Feb 10, 2012 18:54
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Thoogsby posted:Cabs can kill you depending on where you live and where you go out. Drink prices will be a function of how much you drink and what type places you like to go but I would say as a hard rule don't expect to pay less than $6 a beer after tipping. It only goes up from there. Looks like I'm going to do a lot of pregaming. A pitcher of bud light where I go to school is $6. Thanks for the advice on looking into CFA scholarships because that would save so much money.
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Feb 10, 2012 19:17
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All that being said, having the financial wherewithal of an adult with almost none of the responsibility that goes along with it while living in NYC is one of the greatest experiences one can have.
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Feb 10, 2012 19:32
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Swingline posted:Also just in general how far will $5800/month for 11 weeks get me in NYC? Right now it seems like an obscene amount of money to me but then again I go to school in an area where the cost of living is stupid low. If I'm paying 1-1.5k/mo (probably 3 mo lease, maybe 2.5mo if I can get it) in rent and invest ~$1000 in completing my professional wardrobe at the start is it possible I'll have ~3-4k left by the end to buy a used car for senior year or will cabs and Manhattan drink prices kill me? What am I looking at in income taxes? You can easily get by (for a summer) on less than $2000 a month, though that will go up if you rent somewhere nice in Manhattan, take cabs often, go to expensive bars and clubs, don't pregame, etc. I made a fraction of your salary this past summer in my non-finance internship, and with some parental assistance with the rent I got along just fine. Just don't blow it all on pricey midtown bars and unnecessary cab rides home, as most of the people I know who were in finance or ivy league social circles seemed to do. There are tons of fun free events, the subway is 24/hr and safe (as is walking), and plenty of really cool bars that are not that expensive. That being said, don't skimp on things if you are making that much money. Enjoy all the city has to offer while you can, especially the unique experiences you can't have anywhere else. Just don't blow it all on nights out at generic overpriced bars.
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Feb 12, 2012 00:26
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How many shirts/slacks/ties/pairs of shoes should I get? I sweat more than most so re-wearing shirts is out of the question during the summer. I probably can't wear slacks more than twice before they get gross. When I went to their office for the second round I don't think I saw one guy wearing a suit which is a bummer since I love suits. All shirt/tie/slacks/dress shoes. They may have just had their jackets off since it was the middle of the day. I have two good-looking tailored suits though anyway. I have weekends off so I could do dry-cleaners once a week but I'd rather do it twice a month. Should I show up the first day in a suit just in case and take off the jacket if no one else is wearing one or will I risk looking like a douche if no one else is wearing one? Also, since I only have one decent shirt and zero slacks at this point should I try and save money by shopping out in the midwest where I go to school for all the shirts/slacks or pay extra for the high quality stuff in NY? What's a good price target/brand for entry level shirts/slacks/ties? Should I get non-iron shirts or regular shirts? I don't expect to travel much. Any particular type of collar I should go with? Swingline fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Feb 12, 2012 |
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Feb 12, 2012 01:56
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Swingline posted:Also, since I only have one decent shirt and zero slacks at this point should I try and save money by shopping out in the midwest where I go to school for all the shirts/slacks or pay extra for the high quality stuff in NY? What's a good price target/brand for entry level shirts/slacks/ties? What's your clothing budget?
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Feb 12, 2012 02:23
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I could go up to $1500 probably.
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Feb 12, 2012 02:25
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Hard to beat Brooks Brothers Extra-Slim fit Non-Irons: http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...tby=newArrivals If you don't want to pay that much Land's End is a decent alternative. For pants I like these: http://www.jcrew.com/mens_category/pants/bowerypants/PRDOVR~17249/17249.jsp Get a couple decent belts that will hold up too. Assuming you're squared away on shoes.
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Feb 12, 2012 02:32
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Thoogsby posted:Hard to beat Brooks Brothers Extra-Slim fit Non-Irons: http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...tby=newArrivals Shirts look good. Would they have them at BB outlets? I don't really know my size so I'd need to buy them in person. Here's what I have for shoes so far: http://www.rockport.com/Dressport-Wingtip-Mens-Shoes/drspwingtip,default,pd.html - black http://www.johnstonmurphy.com/product.aspx?c=1215&pid=77687&VID=77701 - black Will I need a brown dress shoe? I only like wearing charcoal, navy, black, and other very dark slacks so I'm thinking no. I'm worried that the wing-tips make me look like I'm trying too hard and the J&Ms aren't dressy enough.
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Feb 12, 2012 02:44
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I realize that I sound a little like Patrick Bateman hereSwingline posted:Shirts look good. Would they have them at BB outlets? I don't really know my size so I'd need to buy them in person. Please don't get any shirts with buttons on the tips of the collars Swingline posted:Will I need a brown dress shoe? I only like wearing charcoal, navy, black, and other very dark slacks so I'm thinking no. No you don't need brown shoes. But you're right, IMO Rockport and J&Ms are on just the wrong side of "dressy enough." Do yourself a favor and locate a discounted pair of Florsheims or Allen Edmonds or something (try Gilt and other online discount retailers); good shoes will last for many years if taken care of (I have a pair from Bally that I wear constantly and has lasted over four years so far)
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Feb 12, 2012 05:42
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Admirable Gusto posted:I realize that I sound a little like Patrick Bateman here Thanks I had no idea. Is there a particular reason why or does it just not look good? Also could you link me a good starter allen edmonds for <$300? I'm clueless when it comes to shoes. Could I get by with one pair for the summer if I take care of it or will people notice I'm wearing the same shoes every day? Edit: I'm assuming I'm looking for a lace-up still, right? What kind of toe am I going for? Double edit: Thinking about splurging on http://www.allenedmonds.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producti_SF270_1_40000000001_-1#BVRRWidgetID as my one pair for the summer. Swingline fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Feb 12, 2012 |
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Feb 12, 2012 05:49
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You can find great deals on Park Avenues on eBay if you look around. They are basically the stock response for lace up cap-toes and the archetypical "dress shoe." You can't really go wrong. That being said, I would definitely recommend getting two pairs of shoes for reasons beyond people potentially noticing. For one, they will begin to get pretty gross if you wear them every day. Dress shoes don't breathe very well and I assume you are going to be wearing them 12+ hours a day.
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Feb 12, 2012 17:01
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Swingline posted:Thanks I had no idea. Is there a particular reason why or does it just not look good? I couldn't really say why; it's just not done Basically Zappos is your friend here. Go browse around; it took me 30 seconds to find this: http://www.zappos.com/florsheim-millport-limited-black-leather
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Feb 12, 2012 17:47
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Leo posted:You can find great deals on Park Avenues on eBay if you look around. They are basically the stock response for lace up cap-toes and the archetypical "dress shoe." You can't really go wrong. I think I'm gonna go with two Florsheims for the summer. http://www.florsheim.com/shop/style/18430.html http://www.florsheim.com/shop/style/12065.html
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Feb 12, 2012 21:30
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I'm not as well versed on the suits and such, but Bonobos is really excellent for business casual clothing (and potentially suits as well? I only tried a blazer on but it looked great). They essentially specialize in quality material and cuts that actually help a guy look good, unlike the terrible terrible boxy cuts that most major brands use. They also take appointments for fittings in their NY office and their customer service is amazing. The shirts are on the pricier side for an intern budget but at the very least I highly recommend the pants (and spending an hour at a fitting if you are in NYC).
flyingfoggy fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Feb 13, 2012 |
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Feb 13, 2012 00:03
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Swingline posted:Looks like I'm going to do a lot of pregaming. A pitcher of bud light where I go to school is $6. Thanks for the advice on looking into CFA scholarships because that would save so much money. A pitcher of beer is like $50 here 
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Feb 13, 2012 01:25
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I wouldn't worry too much about the CFA now - enjoy college while it lasts; any half-decent fund will pay for you to take it/give you time off to study for it.
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Feb 13, 2012 03:59
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shrike82 posted:I wouldn't worry too much about the CFA now - enjoy college while it lasts; any half-decent fund will pay for you to take it/give you time off to study for it. I'm going to have to disagree with this. I've seen firsthand a strung out 25 year old studying for level two on the trading desk and I've never seen anyone more miserable. Get as much done while you have the spare time, you'll be so much happier starting your career with that first level knocked off.
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Feb 13, 2012 04:38
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can we talk about exit opportunities? Is M&A/Lev Fin better than an industry group for HF/PE or is that bias completely blown out of proportion? Really interested in tech but am wondering if doing M&A will maximize my options.
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Feb 13, 2012 20:46
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fougera posted:can we talk about exit opportunities? Is M&A/Lev Fin better than an industry group for HF/PE or is that bias completely blown out of proportion? Really interested in tech but am wondering if doing M&A will maximize my options. From what I've heard the most important part is to stay out of really specialized groups like FIG and maybe Oil, Gas, Mining, and the like. I think you should be golden in tech.
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Feb 13, 2012 20:56
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fougera posted:can we talk about exit opportunities? Is M&A/Lev Fin better than an industry group for HF/PE or is that bias completely blown out of proportion? Really interested in tech but am wondering if doing M&A will maximize my options. I believe this depends largely on the bank. At some banks the financial sponsors group will handle a lot of the modeling and client contact that might fall to the LevFin group at other banks and that's really the experience you want. Your best bet is to hop on LinkedIn and see where people placed out of particular groups.
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Feb 13, 2012 20:58
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fougera posted:can we talk about exit opportunities? Is M&A/Lev Fin better than an industry group for HF/PE or is that bias completely blown out of proportion? Really interested in tech but am wondering if doing M&A will maximize my options. Obviously if you want to work in tech PE, it's good to work for a tech group, and so on so forth for other verticals. In any case, the impression your bosses have of you and how well you play the buy-side recruiting game will be a much larger factor
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Feb 14, 2012 06:12
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204062704577223623824944472.html I think it's a little exaggerated but I always have from time to time wondered why IBD is the most sought after of all the finance jobs when there's so many other finance opportunities out there even in undergrad.
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Feb 15, 2012 05:20
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Swingline posted:I think it's a little exaggerated but I always have from time to time wondered why IBD is the most sought after of all the finance jobs when there's so many other finance opportunities out there even in undergrad. Want to work on buyside with no MBA? IBD is pretty much mandatory (there are certain interesting exceptions). But why would you ever want to be a lifer in the industry? Your physical and mental health is worth far more than that. Everyone in this thread who is wondering what to do with their life and must have a finance-related job should do themselves a favor and go corporate.
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Feb 15, 2012 09:21
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