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CivilDisobedience posted:With respect, you're clearly have excellent positional awareness, but you're perpetually tensing your core, and it's completely immobilizing your hips relative to your shoulders. You're basically not taking advantage of your most important fulcrum! With respect, you're full of poo poo. quote:Getting specific: I didn't try "to fight against his deep half guard underhook", as a matter of fact I completely gave up any attempt to fight against his deep half in order to attempt a choke, and the fact that you apparently couldn't see this despite the fact that I've already mentioned it leads me to believe that there's really not much point in paying any attention to the rest of your "analysis"
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Feb 11, 2012 10:08
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That was a pretty sweet flying triangle attempt. Did you get an arm in or something since he let it go? Also, you remarked on it, but I watched the video before I read your post, and I`m pretty surprised the ref did nothing about the dude constantly disengaging- doesn't that usually warrant at least a warning? I can't really give you any advice since you're a bazillion years more experienced than me, but then it looks like you have a good understanding of what went wrong anyway.
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Feb 11, 2012 10:38
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Bohemian Nights posted:That was a pretty sweet flying triangle attempt. Did you get an arm in or something since he let it go? Glued my bicep to my ear. That keeps the shoulder off the neck, which prevents the choke from finishing. You can't see it very well in the video but my other hand was posting on his leg and pushing, and I was starting to slide out, which is why he bailed on it and came up on top. quote:Also, you remarked on it, but I watched the video before I read your post, and I`m pretty surprised the ref did nothing about the dude constantly disengaging- doesn't that usually warrant at least a warning? Refs are really reluctant to actually deduct points for stalling even at the best of times, and as I mentioned this was kind of a lovely ref. One of my teammates actually got injured because his opponent double-legged him into this ref who just stood there like a retard and let my teammate's head get slammed into his shins. I actually quite like the NAGA ruleset, but their officiating really needs work. Although I should note again that it didn't really matter in this case since correct point calling would have had me losing anyway, I think.
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Feb 11, 2012 10:53
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Since someone posted g in a gi a little while back, I'm sure ya'll will appreciate the newest musical gem from Halek Gracie. FIGHT NIGHT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pC3dQd-JQFU! E: If you have spotify, you can check out his entire album. This is actually the best song on the album and yet it's so bad. Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 13:52
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NAGA starts in about five hours for me. Gonna be fun as long as I get at least two matches. Here is hoping.
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Feb 11, 2012 14:01
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fatherdog posted:With respect, you're full of poo poo. No need to be rude, it just reflects poorly on you. Have a look at the vid frame by frame and maybe my post will make more sense. Pause it at 1:03- you're at the deepest point of your d'arce attempt, and your palm still can't reach your bicep- you barely have your fingers on it. Those couple inches make all the difference. Why didn't you reach deeper and/or lock it up earlier? Because his underhook blocked your arm out: his elbow is pushing into your bicep (you can see this from a better angle at :59), giving him a leverage point and most importantly *maintaining the open space between his neck and shoulder* so you can't reach deep enough. You're already too late when he turns his elbow over and rolls to his back at 1:01, because he's elevated your hip (and you're not posting your leg out), so he can sweep you in the other direction and block your d'arce at the same time (1:50 here http://www.aesopian.com/198/trogs-sweeps-ldhgdhg/) if you try to commit any weight onto his shoulder to close that space. CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 19:58
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CivilDisobedience posted:No need to be rude, it just reflects poorly on you. Actually, there is a need to call you full of poo poo when you are, in fact, full of poo poo. Which reflects far more poorly on you than my choice of language does on me. quote:Have a look at the vid frame by frame and maybe my post will make more sense. I didn't "reach deeper and/or lock it up earlier" because I started it when he was already beginning the sweep. During the moments you're pointing out, his underhookd did not "block [my] right arm out", because his underhook was low and across my back, which meant that my arm was in the process of forcing it down because he had no structural strength because of his elbow position. This is why the choke did in fact get locked up (meaning that this was not, as you claim, the "deepest point of [my] d'arce attempt"; it was deeper after I went to my back and locked it up, obviously) which is why he had to bail out backwards rather than consolidating position on top. My error was in being so occupied in locking up the submission that I didn't defend the sweep; you suggesting that I try a different, more complicated maneuver to get a choke that still would involve giving up the sweep is not helpful, nor does it address what is actually happening in the video. As another example of you being full of poo poo - CivilDisobedience posted:If you're gonna keep your distance and gripfight from seated guard, give up on the butterfly hooks and do this kind of stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmqIAXU9TWE First of all, the specific sweep technique that Marcelo demonstrates, I in fact do at 4:30, but my opponent is able to recover his arm and prevent me from switching my hips to take advantage of his post, so you are advising me to do something I already did and failed. Secondly, "giv[ing] up on the butterfly hooks" and playing feet-on-hips as Marcelo demonstrates is to stop a pressuring opponent from coming forward, which is the opposite of what was happening - my opponent was repeatedly disengaging and backing away, which feet-on-hips does absolutely nothing to address, and in fact makes easier because you can't destabilize his legs as he backs off the way you can with butterfly hooks, and you are left trying to hold him with just your arms and upper body which is obviously sub-optimal. Giving advice on a match involves actually examining what happened in the match and what you could have done to address the things that gave you trouble. It is not just picking a few positions that occurred during the match and then giving techniques you happen to like in those positions and saying "You should have done this!"
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Feb 11, 2012 20:24
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Well I appreciate you elaborating on your objections despite the persistent rudeness. Why did you start your darce late? Because his underhook prevented you from starting it when you had the chance to finish it and maintain top position. It's irrelevant that you locked it up once you were already on your back since he can escape at will by then, as you found out. Your error was in not posting your leg vs his deep half guard. The sweep and failed d'arce are both results of that mistake. I'm not advocating some complicated maneuver, it's literally the exact same movement you did, just go over the arm instead of under and you won't end up on your back.
CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 20:36
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fatherdog posted:First of all, the specific sweep technique that Marcelo demonstrates, I in fact do at 4:30, but my opponent is able to recover his arm and prevent me from switching my hips to take advantage of his post, so you are advising me to do something I already did and failed. Secondly, "giv[ing] up on the butterfly hooks" and playing feet-on-hips as Marcelo demonstrates is to stop a pressuring opponent from coming forward, which is the opposite of what was happening - my opponent was repeatedly disengaging and backing away, which feet-on-hips does absolutely nothing to address, and in fact makes easier because you can't destabilize his legs as he backs off the way you can with butterfly hooks, and you are left trying to hold him with just your arms and upper body which is obviously sub-optimal. If you think you did the same thing Marcelo does in that link, you must not understand what he's demonstrating. You just attempted a butterfly sweep on an opponent who was basing out and squared up. Marcelo de-squares his opponents shoulders (holding the hips in place with his feet) to one side, then scoots in while the guy's trying to regain equilibrium and butterfly sweeps to the other side, as the guy leans into it. Point is, I'm not suggesting you use that specific technique (hence "do stuff like this"), I'm telling you that if you're gonna stay at that distance instead of scooting in to elevate his hips at every available opportunity, feet on hips will give you more control than butterfly hooks, even if he's not constantly driving into you. You're not gonna stop him from backing out either way, that should be clear enough to you by now. I'm not just picking positions and telling you to use my favorite techniques btw, as I explained in my first post I'm telling you that your whole style of movement needs fixing, and picking some specific moments where your unwillingness to release your core tension really hosed you over, so you have some concrete examples to work with. Where do you train again? I'd love to visit sometime, especially after all your poo poo talking. CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 20:55
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CivilDisobedience posted:Well I appreciate you elaborating on your objections despite the persistent rudeness. I am being rude because you are offering poor advice and don't really seem to know what you are talking about, which irritates me. quote:Why did you start your darce late? Because his underhook prevented you from starting it when you had the chance to finish it and maintain top position. False. I started it late because I reacted too late. The underhook didn't prevent me from doing anything; in fact giving the opponent the opportunity to underhook is a necessary precondition for the d'arce to begin with. quote:It's irrelevant that you locked it up once you were already on your back since he can escape at will by then, as you found out. False. The d'arce can be finished from under side control without the opponent being able to "escape at will". I do it in training, I've done it in competition before, and other grapplers at higher levels of competition have done so as well. Jeff Glover, for example. quote:Your error was in not posting your leg vs his deep half guard. False. The proper defense there does not involve posting the leg unless you're stepping over the head, which is not what you were advocating at all.
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Feb 11, 2012 21:15
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CivilDisobedience posted:If you think you did the same thing Marcelo does in that link, you must not understand what he's demonstrating. I suspect that it's you who don't understand what he's demonstrating, since you spend a lot of time talking about how I shouldn't have "core tension" and at 1:30 he talks about the importance of having core tension. quote:I'm telling you that if you're gonna stay at that distance instead of scooting in to elevate his hips at every available opportunity, feet on hips will give you more control than butterfly hooks, even if he's not constantly driving into you. You're not gonna stop him from backing out either way, that should be clear enough to you by now. Actually, there were several periods on the ground where I was able to stop him from backing out, because when he started to post a leg up I destabilized him with the hooks. Switching to feet on hips would have resulted in him backing up even more than he was already able to. Again, if you can't see this I suspect you really don't understand what you're advocating. What I should have done during one of the sequences where he was engaging was switch to closed guard, which would have been even better at keeping him engaged so that I could lock something down. I am personally annoyed that I didn't do this, since he rarely had a knee up to block. quote:Where do you train again? I'd love to visit sometime, especially after all your poo poo talking. I am a brown belt at Ricardo Almeida's. And if you come in with the attitude of paying someone back for saying "gently caress" on the internet, then I suspect that you won't "love to visit", in fact.
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Feb 11, 2012 21:20
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fatherdog posted:False. I started it late because I reacted too late. The underhook didn't prevent me from doing anything; in fact giving the opponent the opportunity to underhook is a necessary precondition for the d'arce to begin with. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W10UnRowgso Here this will help. E: Hang on I'll elaborate in just a sec CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 21:22
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CivilDisobedience posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W10UnRowgso What part of that video do you think addresses anything said in the quoted text, exactly?
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Feb 11, 2012 21:27
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if you two end up rolling together please upload the video to youtube maybe we could roll it into the mobnweight grand prix and we could wager stickers on the two of you
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Feb 11, 2012 21:37
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First, I don't have anything to 'pay you back' for. Like I said, the insults only hurt people's perception of you. I'd love to come in so you can feel firsthand that I know what I'm talking about. However you're on the other side of the country, so there's not much chance of that right now. Also, don't misinterpret my critique of your movement style: Core tension is absolutely essential ofc, but you can't make effective use of it unless you're willing to relax and free your hips too so they can move independently of the rest of your torso. Marcelo isn't advocating that you clench through the entire match. You're right, closed guard would have helped stop him from backing out. I figured you were just choosing to play open guard because there's no reason to stop him from backing out (he's resetting when neither of you have a positional advantage, and you're clearly comfortable with seated guard vs standing passes- what do you have to lose?). Sure you destabilized him once or twice with your butterfly hooks, but you couldn't turn that into anything effective without subsequently scooting in, and he just backs out successfully moments later anyway. Talk to Ricardo and ask what he thinks about this, I guarantee he'll agree that you needed more frequent in/out and lateral hip movement to justify the butterfly hooks, and that feet on hips is more congruent with your desire to keep your distance, square up and gripfight. Finally, the video: Your claim "giving the opponent the opportunity to underhook is a necessary precondition for the d'arce to begin with" is right, but you shouldn't actually give them the underhook or you'll screw yourself. Listen when Duke says "always when you're in someone's half guard you want to make sure [...] you're never giving up the underhook," right before demonstrating an effective d'arce that doesn't allow the opponent to enter deep half and sweep. CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 22:04
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Here's a video, please critique it.
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Feb 11, 2012 22:15
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oh MY GOD I AM SO UPSET ABOUT THE CRITIQUE THAT YOU'VE GIVEN. HOW dare you tell ME not to flex my abs or whatever!
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Feb 11, 2012 22:16
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How dare you david I will come to your gym and beat you up
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Feb 11, 2012 22:17
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CivilDisobedience posted:Your error was in not posting your leg vs his deep half guard. The sweep and failed d'arce are both results of that mistake. quote:I'm telling you that if you're gonna stay at that distance instead of scooting in to elevate his hips at every available opportunity, feet on hips will give you more control than butterfly hooks, even if he's not constantly driving into you. You're not gonna stop him from backing out either way, that should be clear enough to you by now. fatherdog made plenty of mistakes but you've somehow managed to identify none of them. quote:Where do you train again? I'd love to visit sometime, especially after all your poo poo talking.
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Feb 11, 2012 22:17
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david carmichael posted:oh MY GOD I AM SO UPSET ABOUT THE CRITIQUE THAT YOU'VE GIVEN. HOW dare you tell ME not to flex my abs or whatever! lol
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Feb 11, 2012 22:21
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i would like to make clear that fatherdog could be completely correct, and that my grappling credentials consist of trying judo once and crying.
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Feb 11, 2012 22:25
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CivilDisobedience posted:You're right, closed guard would have helped stop him from backing out. I figured you were just choosing to play open guard I wasn't consciously choosing to play open guard; transitioning from butterfly to closed simply didn't occur to me, which I put down simply to not doing it enough in training recently (I've actually been mostly working on de la riva because it's a weakness in my game, but the problem with working on weaknesses in your game close to tournaments is that it gets you used to going for positions that aren't your A-game.) quote:because there's no reason to stop him from backing out (he's resetting when neither of you have a positional advantage, and you're clearly comfortable with seated guard vs standing passes- what do you have to lose?). Uh, actually there was a very clear reason to stop him from backing out; he was up on points. What do I have to lose? The match, if nothing happens that gets me points or a submission - and both those things can only happen if he engages, so clearly I had quite a lot to lose from him backing out. quote:Talk to Ricardo and ask what he thinks about this I already have; he was there that day. Honestly do you think SA is the first place I go to ask for advice on grappling? Anything on the internet is only supplemental to what you're getting from your actual coach. quote:I guarantee he'll agree that you needed more frequent in/out and lateral hip movement to justify the butterfly hooks, and that feet on hips is more congruent with your desire to keep your distance, square up and gripfight. Actually you're entirely wrong, he said nothing of the kind which is one of the reasons I was quite dismissive of your initial post. quote:Finally, the video: Your claim "giving the opponent the opportunity to underhook is a necessary precondition for the d'arce to begin with" is wrong. Listen when Duke says "always when you're in someone's half guard you want to make sure [...]you're never giving up the underhook because you're moments away from getting swept," right before demonstrating an effective d'arce that doesn't allow the opponent to enter deep half and sweep. No offense to Duke but he's frankly full of poo poo, as soon as he drives his arm through for the d'arce position he's giving the opportunity for the guy to underhook. The key to the d'arce is getting your shoulder through so that he doesn't have a high underhook, ie an underhook with his hand on your shoulder or trapezius, which would prevent you from rotating your shoulder in the way he shows and getting the full d'arce position. You want to restrict your opponent to having a low underhook, across your back or in "grabbing the belt" position, because that won't prevent you from driving the shoulder in - and that was in fact what my opponent had, which is why he wasn't able to prevent me from driving the shoulder in and locking up the d'arce.
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Feb 11, 2012 22:25
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fatherdog posted:(I've actually been mostly working on de la riva because it's a weakness in my game, but the problem with working on weaknesses in your game close to tournaments is that it gets you used to going for positions that aren't your A-game.) Do you Play DLR no gi, or is this just what you've been working on in general? I've played around with no gi DLR a bit, but without any grips to create tension I don't particularly care for it(also leg locks scare me)
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Feb 11, 2012 22:40
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Conventional de la riva is less common in no gi and reverse de la riva is generally more useful in that context.
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Feb 11, 2012 22:47
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dokomoy posted:Do you Play DLR no gi, or is this just what you've been working on in general? I've played around with no gi DLR a bit, but without any grips to create tension I don't particularly care for it(also leg locks scare me) I don't really do anything I can't do in no-gi, with the exception of bow and arrow chokes. One of the things Ricardo has been working on with Frankie (and by extension me since I happen to be there during that stage of training) has been using DLR in mma to point your opponent's knee (and therefore his hips) away from you, which prevents him from being able to punch you effectively, and working sweeps and standups off of that. I've been combining that with leglocks and the berimbolo sweep from Caio Terra and the Mendes' to put together some semblance of a complete DLR game. DLR does put you at greater risk for leglocks, but there aren't many people that I don't feel confident in a leglock battle with. My initial several years of training were under and with leglock specialists.
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Feb 11, 2012 22:49
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I think you're forgetting that every disengage is another potential stalling penalty. Also, I think you're focusing too much on hand position in evaluating darces, and not enough on shoulder position. It really doesn't matter if his hand is deep or shallow, it just matters if his shoulder is on his neck or not. Duke, like most people (myself included) recognizes that it's only an underhook if it's a deep underhook. Sure, his opponent may be able to brush his armpit after he drives his shoulder through and locks it up, but I'd hesitate to call that an underhook to avoid the false implication that it has similar use in the situation as a real underhook. Finally, I suggested that you talk to Ricardo about our dispute specifically, because I think you'll find that his lack of comment on it wasn't because my critique is irrelevant as you assume, it was because he was dealing with different questions. CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 22:58
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CivilDisobedience posted:I think you're forgetting that every disengage is another potential stalling penalty. Yeah, you see how well that worked out. quote:Also, I think you're focusing too much on hand position in evaluating darces, and not enough on shoulder position. It really doesn't matter if his hand is deep or shallow, it just matters if his shoulder is on his neck or not. This is complete bullshit and seriously if you actually believe this you have no idea how d'arce chokes work. quote:Finally, I suggested that you talk to Ricardo about our dispute specifically, because I think you'll find that his lack of comment on it wasn't because my critique is irrelevant, it was because he was looking at different questions. Well he already advocated that I basically do the exact opposite of most of your suggestions so I'm gonna go ahead and figure that you're full of poo poo, again.
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Feb 11, 2012 23:01
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fatherdog posted:Yeah, you see how well that worked out. I'll bet it would have worked better if you'd let him disengage more often. But hey do whatever you'd like, I'm sure disregarding advice on your assumption that it's bad will serve you as well in the future as it has in the past. You just look like a thirsty horse to me, but maybe that video was a fluke and you're actually not tense and immobile in every match. CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 23:07
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CivilDisobedience posted:I'll bet it would have worked better if you'd let him disengage more often. Yes, letting a guy who is up on points disengage more often is definitely a strategy that will work better, you loving retard. quote:But hey do whatever you'd like, I'm sure disregarding advice on your assumption that it's bad will serve you as well in the future as it has in the past. When I have advice from Ricardo Almeida on the one hand and directly contradictory advice from some retard on the internet on the other, yes, I think disregarding the latter on the assumption that it's bad will serve me pretty well.
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Feb 11, 2012 23:25
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Yum this sure is some refreshing water here. So Ricardo told you to stop being so loose in the hips and clench your gut more huh? drat, well I can't argue that he knows best Wouldn't it be funny if the ref was thinking "Geez if he disengages one more time I'm gonna put a stop to that poo poo" CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Feb 11, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 23:33
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CivilDisobedience posted:Yum this sure is some refreshing water. So Ricardo told you to stop being so loose in the hips and clench your gut more huh? drat, well I can't argue that he knows best Oh cool, we've gotten to the point where the guy who doesn't know what he's talking about has run out of arguments and restorts to sarcasm. Will the next step be you linking to videos of me or ricardo losing, or will you just gently caress off and declare that you've won? I doubt it'll be the latter, since you strike me as one of the pedantic obsessives who has a pathological need to have the last word.
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Feb 11, 2012 23:40
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And I still haven't sunk to your level and started insulting you, amazing! I don't need to discredit Ricardo, since you're obviously not representative of his abilities, but I would caution that your attitude definitely reflects poorly on him as your instructor. E: And of course your video says enough about you already. No it's fine you can 'win' the conversation, I only do the 'last word' game with chicks. No YOU hang up first! 
CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Feb 12, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 23:42
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CivilDisobedience posted:And I still haven't sunk to your level and started insulting you, amazing! "The world is flat, as you can clearly see by the fact that although microcurvature is obviously the case macrocurvature has never been proven!" "gently caress you, you moron, the world is round." Obviously since the former hasn't sunk to the latter's level he's won!
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Feb 11, 2012 23:45
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Maybe you should look into getting a haircut so you can see your opponent next time.
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Feb 11, 2012 23:49
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I managed to walk out with a bronze in my division. I'm a hapoy camper.
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Feb 12, 2012 01:59
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origami posted:Maybe you should look into getting a haircut so you can see your opponent next time. lol TheKingslayer posted:I managed to walk out with a bronze in my division. I'm a hapoy camper. Incidentally, so did I; the video I posted was the semis match and after it I fought a dude for third. He made the unfortunate tactical error of playing for leglocks against me, so I tapped him in about a minute.
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Feb 12, 2012 03:07
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I had pretty much the same problem of getting my opponent to engage at the last in house tournament we had. I've been trying to work a couple things to counter it, and the most effective ways I've found were single legging when your opponent tries to step inside, what I call the "dickhead sweep" ie, blocking the ankles and shoving his knees, and wrapping the lead leg and using a butterfly sweep type motion on your opponents instep to pop him forward so you can shoot your hips to foot lock (anaconda) guard. Honestly it's a little wierd because it looks like we're basically playing the same guard game. Butterfly, DLR, and a tendency to go to half guard against the angle. My coach had been Berimbolo crazy for months now, and against my stupid hips he can hit it no gi even against my combat base. I've had more success getting the deep DLR and getting arm drags off it, or letting him break my hook, going to spiral guard and rolling inverted to sweep forward. I was really hoping for the half guard arm drag from 1:00 of this ryan hall video.
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Feb 12, 2012 05:18
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CivilDisobedience posted:I don't need to discredit Ricardo I love that you think that anything you could do or say actually would discredit Ricardo.
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Feb 12, 2012 05:25
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awkward_turtle posted:I had pretty much the same problem of getting my opponent to engage at the last in house tournament we had. I've been trying to work a couple things to counter it, and the most effective ways I've found were single legging when your opponent tries to step inside, what I call the "dickhead sweep" ie, blocking the ankles and shoving his knees, and wrapping the lead leg and using a butterfly sweep type motion on your opponents instep to pop him forward so you can shoot your hips to foot lock (anaconda) guard. Additionally I like to use takedowns or dynamic reversals as opposed to controlled sweeps when opponents give me that kind of distance. Out of butterfly I'll post my hand on the opposite side of his front leg out then S out my legs to the other side and shoot forward on my knees while grabbing the heel of his front leg with my head to the inside of his knee and collect up the back knee for the low double as I circle into him.
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Feb 12, 2012 05:36
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Yuns posted:From my own stylistic perspective, when opponents try to keep out of grip and hook range, I feel that there is absolutely nothing keeping me from standing up and I frequently do so. You don't have to be wed to the bottom game. Frequently in training there is an unwritten gentlemen's agreement that one guy will work bottom and one top until a sweep is hit. But in competition when someone disengages when on top you can try instead to just stand. This is true; it's one of the unfortunate things about training where you get really too used to playing from the bottom without the option of standing up. You can see where at one point I stood up and tried to get the guillotine, but it was too little, too late.
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Feb 12, 2012 05:44
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