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DrBouvenstein posted:I just finished book 4, and so far I love almost everything...but I am curious about something regarding magic: I guess I'll spoiler this even though its just my general take on magic in the books, no plot details. But it does have a bit about Melisandre in the last book, if you haven't read it yet.GRRM never really explains how it all works. He has said in interviews that some of the magical elements were basically miracles like Dany not being burned in the pyre. In regards to R'hllor specifically, we get a little deeper into the magic through Melisadre, Thoros, and another guy in the last book. And we learn that they really have no clue. They are believers but are just stumbling through the magical stuff. Thoros said in one of the books that the kiss of fire never worked before and he doesn't really understand it. So I tend to believe that GRRM will treat magic like miracles to Catholics. They don't understand but just believe in its power/effect/whatever. To an outsider(POV) it looks like these people are master practitioners.
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Jan 26, 2012 21:13
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Kung Fu Jesus posted:I guess I'll spoiler this even though its just my general take on magic in the books, no plot details. But it does have a bit about Melisandre in the last book, if you haven't read it yet.GRRM never really explains how it all works. He has said in interviews that some of the magical elements were basically miracles like Dany not being burned in the pyre. In regards to R'hllor specifically, we get a little deeper into the magic through Melisadre, Thoros, and another guy in the last book. And we learn that they really have no clue. They are believers but are just stumbling through the magical stuff. Thoros said in one of the books that the kiss of fire never worked before and he doesn't really understand it. So I tend to believe that GRRM will treat magic like miracles to Catholics. They don't understand but just believe in its power/effect/whatever. To an outsider(POV) it looks like these people are master practitioners. There seems to be a few structures. One is a very belief based, especially with the Red Priests in making sacrifices (Death pays for Life). The other is in practice with spells - the making of Valyrian steel, the spells woven into the wall by the First Men and Children of the Forest, the spells of Storm's End, the pyromancers in ACoK, the Faceless Men face and whatever Marwyn is up to. As for the Others and Wights, I'm not sure where that falls, as well as the House of the Undying. I don't think magic was ever gone - just dormant. The Pyromancers as Tyrion if he's knows if dragons are back because they're spells are suddenly more powerful than they were before.
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Jan 26, 2012 21:59
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Ballz posted:I'm pretty sure Asha Greyjoy tossed it around a lot, too. I think Asha was the first one to drop a nuncle. Which at the time I thought was pretty clever by her, since she was talking to her religious convert uncle and I thought it was a nickname she came up with. Then about halfway through the book Tyrion started using it and it became less cool. Not that it ever really bothered me.
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Jan 26, 2012 22:15
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geeves posted:There seems to be a few structures. One is a very belief based, especially with the Red Priests in making sacrifices (Death pays for Life). The other is in practice with spells - the making of Valyrian steel, the spells woven into the wall by the First Men and Children of the Forest, the spells of Storm's End, the pyromancers in ACoK, the Faceless Men face and whatever Marwyn is up to. As for the Others and Wights, I'm not sure where that falls, as well as the House of the Undying. Maybe the midi-chlorians were just reverse hibernating or something. In Westeros they only come out of hibernation when it gets colder.
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Jan 26, 2012 22:41
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Menamino posted:I think Asha was the first one to drop a nuncle. Which at the time I thought was pretty clever by her, since she was talking to her religious convert uncle and I thought it was a nickname she came up with. I thoght the same thing, then she used it later for Victarion, used it about 12 times in one chapter, then Jaime used it. Anyway, I just finished AFFC last night, and I have to say I really enjoyed it. No, it's not as good as the other three, but it does not deserve the hate it seems to get. I think most of the hate comes (understandably) from having to wait SO LONG between 4 and 5. There were a few things that I think they should have went further with (the Greyjoy chapters just END. They should have has one or two more towards the end). But yeah, I enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to ADWD.
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Jan 27, 2012 01:41
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I got the A Game Of Thrones boardgame in the mail today with A Storm Of Swords expansion. Finally Renly will win the throne.
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Jan 27, 2012 08:37
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Magic: I've always thought that magic was present in the world. From the very first page of the prologue in GoT, you have The Others. Dead people with ice blades simply don't just appear, and they happen to be your buddy that was just standing next to you. Also remember the bit with Sam and Obsidian, sometimes called Dragonglass. Why would Obsidian kill the Others (again) but a normal sword wouldn't? You don't see many practitioners of magic, I think, because of the "guarded secrets" type thing. Faceless men have their magic as seen by Arya and the one in the Epilogue that ends up in Old Town. I even believe that the Maesters protect some kind of Old Magic and Sam will end up discovering some piece of it while he is in Old Town. Next you have Bran and the people sitting in the cave of the Children of the Forest, and can wear the forms of animals. So can Jon (but he's dead for all we know). Skinchangers. Magic is certainly in the world, it's just not as pronounced as it is in other series like Malazan or Sword of Truth.
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Jan 27, 2012 14:20
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supersteve posted:I'm only about 50 pages into the second book, but I just don't understand all of the Sansa hate. Hey, guy! I'm about 50 pages into the second book also (although I'm a few days behind). I do like the Sansa chapters but up until the end of the first book, she seemed like the only main character who was having stuff happen to her rather than being active. Fifty pages into ACoK (hurhur I bet I'm the first one to giggle at that), she's starting to develop a new skill set in the way she learns to fiddle with the King's head, which is cool. Having her world destroyed made her lose the air of haughtiness that tinged her POV in the first volume.
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Jan 30, 2012 04:45
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Fleetwood posted:fiddle with the King's head You laugh at the abbreviation ACoK but you fail to find this hilarious? How does that work?
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Jan 30, 2012 08:33
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 Speaking of, one of my favorite zingers is when Tywin calls Varys a cockless wonder.
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Jan 30, 2012 12:59
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Just read the (book 3 spoiler) Red Wedding chapter(s) for the first time.
CelestialScribe fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 9, 2012 |
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Feb 7, 2012 21:52
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CelestialScribe posted:Just read the Red Wedding chapter(s) (Book 3 spoiler) for the first time. You should probably spoiler that like so.
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Feb 7, 2012 22:41
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Woops, sorry. Fixed. Maybe it's because I'm still in shock, haha.
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Feb 7, 2012 22:54
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CelestialScribe posted:Just read the Red Wedding chapter(s) for the first time. I had to put it down for half an hour. Intense.
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Feb 8, 2012 09:48
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CelestialScribe posted:Woops, sorry. Fixed. Maybe it's because I'm still in shock, haha. Just fyi, you didn't fix it. You should be putting (Book 3 spoilers) next to your spoiler block because a spoiler could be for any book. In any case, I pretty much almost threw my book at a wall after that. Had to stop reading for sure.
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Feb 9, 2012 04:23
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God, yeah that part was intense. (Still book 3 spoilers...the whole book, so CelestialScribe, don't read unless you've finished Storm) I see now why so many people see A Feast for Crows as not as good as Storm of Swords. Bear in mind I'm only ~30% into Feast, but how can you live up to the intensity of that single chapter, let alone the entire book? Rob? Dead. Catelyn? Dead, but now a weird walking corpse thanks to Thoros. Joffery? Dead. Tywin? Dead. Sansa? On the run with Littlefinger, of all people, who hints he is responsible for Joffery's death. Tyrion? On the run, after killing Tywin and Shae. Balon? Dead, from falling of a bridge of all things. (Though it's hinted that the magic Melisandre was doing might also be to blame for his, and maybe Joffery's, death.) Theon? God only knows, though I guess last we heard imprisoned by the bastard of Lord Bolton and being flayed alive. Jon? Escaped from the Wildings, and helped fend off an attack on the wall thanks to last minute help by Stannis and Melisandre. Dany? Got a sweet slave army, freed them (sort of), and has taken a couple of cities and freed their slaves. Also, Jorah was a traitor (sort of,) and former Kingsguard Captain Ser Barriston is with her. Jamie? Lost a hand, is shunned by everyone in King's Landing, and now seems to be trying to regain his honor. Arya? Snuck off on a ship and is now on another freakin' continent! Bran? With some giant, dead guy riding a giant, dead elk beyond the Wall. The Hound? Left for dead by Arya. The Mountain? Dying from the wounds and poison from Oberyn Martell, who he still managed to kill. And then you've got Beric Dondarrion and his motley crew doing their own thing, which seems to be "gently caress everyone that was involved in this God-forsaken war that hosed every the little people" and constantly getting brought back to life by Thoros. So...yeah, pretty in-loving-tense book.
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Feb 13, 2012 21:05
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More ASOS spoilers I thought the whole scene with Sansa building a castle was such a sweet moment in the midst of all this bloodshed and deception. But even that couldn't last 
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Feb 14, 2012 02:19
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I have been  ing my way thru AFFC and am 200 pages in... someone tell me it gets good soon.
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Feb 14, 2012 05:36
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ironlung posted:I have been While it never gets really good it does get a bit better.
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Feb 14, 2012 05:59
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ironlung posted:I have been Not that it's much consolation, but it's significantly better on a reread than on your first time through.
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Feb 14, 2012 06:12
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regulargonzalez posted:Not that it's much consolation, but it's significantly better on a reread than on your first time through. I just finished it, and I quite enjoyed some of the bits that people seemed to hate: Cersei and Jaime's chapters were great, and I liked the brief interludes with the Stark kids. Brienne's aimless wanderings were loving tedious though; it'd have been better if we didn't know where Sansa was. And the Dorne stuff felt like padding; Doran Martell's plans are interesting, but the rest of it jumped around too much to really build interesting characters. Gurm's maps are loving terrible too. I'd love a detailed one of the Riverlands / Trident, since half the series is set there, but instead we got a slightly more detailed version of the Iron Islands. And it takes three books for Dany to turn up anywhere on a map.
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Feb 14, 2012 06:29
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Doctor Spaceman posted:
FWIW, I really enjoyed ADWD's maps, but then again I really enjoy Essos so it was nice just getting some more info on that part of the world.
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Feb 14, 2012 08:24
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ironlung posted:I have been I really liked it...
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Feb 14, 2012 08:31
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ironlung posted:I have been It gets really, really amazing, but it's best on a re-read.
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Feb 14, 2012 08:41
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computer parts posted:FWIW, I really enjoyed ADWD's maps, but then again I really enjoy Essos so it was nice just getting some more info on that part of the world. I've not picked it up yet, but when I flicked through it I glad to see that Essos actually exists now.
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Feb 14, 2012 10:24
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Yeah, GRRM really needs to come out with some full world map. I know there's one that exists, but I think it's fan made and a little goofy. Westeros is pretty well fleshed out, but everything else just seems to have piecemeal maps that aren't easy to put together.
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Feb 14, 2012 18:20
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This series isn't about cartography.
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Feb 14, 2012 20:32
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But a decent map helps understand what the gently caress is going on sometimes. There's been a few times I've flipped through the maps going, "where the gently caress are they right now?" and it taking me forever to figure it out.
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Feb 14, 2012 22:18
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This is especially guilty in ADWD. All of Dany's adventures and political ties don't make gently caress for sense unless you actually know where each city is.
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Feb 15, 2012 00:02
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Maps! I want maps! I want to know who exactly are the seven great houses and I want detailed maps of their holdings and the lands of their bannermen. I want maps of non-Westeros lands too!
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Feb 15, 2012 02:45
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I just finished it, and I quite enjoyed some of the bits that people seemed to hate: Cersei and Jaime's chapters were great, and I liked the brief interludes with the Stark kids. Brienne's aimless wanderings were loving tedious though; it'd have been better if we didn't know where Sansa was. And the Dorne stuff felt like padding; Doran Martell's plans are interesting, but the rest of it jumped around too much to really build interesting characters. Wait... people hate JAIME'S chapters? What in the flying gently caress? Jaime is seriously one of my absolute favorite characters after SoS and AFFC. How can you hate his chapters?
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Feb 15, 2012 07:39
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Yeah that definitely surprises me. He's my favorite character in the series at the moment.
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Feb 15, 2012 07:55
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Nah, the chapters Doctor Spaceman mentions are pretty much universally regarded as the best in Feast. Everyone loves Jaime.
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Feb 15, 2012 14:17
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Junkenstein posted:Nah, the chapters Doctor Spaceman mentions are pretty much universally regarded as the best in Feast. Everyone loves Jaime. Alright, good. Also, (Book 3 and 4 spoilers)Jaime's chapters are such a testament to how good Gurm is at writing characters. He took this character, showed us he's a horrible monster who fucks his sister, and then turns him into a witty honor-bound leader who is trying to clean up his name. I legitimately felt bad for a guy who pushed a child out of a window because he saw him loving his sister. Only a great writer could do that. GonSmithe fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 16, 2012 |
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Feb 15, 2012 18:07
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Junkenstein posted:Nah, the chapters Doctor Spaceman mentions are pretty much universally regarded as the best in Feast. Everyone loves Jaime.
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Feb 15, 2012 21:20
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And I don't understand that, either. It was just as riveting for me but in a totally different way. Cersei is becoming insane, but her character just gets the shaft in ADWD and I feel so bad for her.
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Feb 16, 2012 02:32
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yeah, it's easily possible I'm misremembering some stuff, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people didn't like Cersei's descent into paranoia. My favourite Jaime moment was him writing his failures into the Kingsguard book; I wouldn't have been entirely unhappy for his PoV stuff to end there. I liked them both respectively. aSoS: At first I was worried about Jamie's chapters. I read through GoT and CoK in probably two consecutive weeks. After how Theon's chapters turned out and really not liking him or Jamie when I picked up the book and the first chapter was Jamie's. I read the first 5 pages then didn't pick up SoS until almost a year later. I think it helped when I finally read it and realized that Jamie is almost as funny and probably could be almost as intellectual as Tyrion if he wanted. One of my favorite chapters is Jamie's first meeting as Lord Commander - I just reread that chapter today and it is just full of bitter-sweetness and humor. It was also when I realized that while Jamie may never be redeemed, he wants desperately to turn his life around - especially during his reading of the White Book and his conversation with Loras. "If he wants you to saddle his horse, do it. If he wants you to kill his horse, come get me." AFfC: As for Cersi - she's just as haunted by her past, albeit for different reasons. Her paranoia / descent into madness based on the maegi's prophecy seems pretty self-fulfilling. She's convinced herself she can scheme with the best of them, but it's impossible to tell because she's pushed the one person who who wanted to help her away and she's lost all of her would-be support because of what she's done to Tyrion. geeves fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Feb 16, 2012 |
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Feb 16, 2012 03:44
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I think it's one area where watching the show first made a big difference. There are several (really good) scenes where Jaime's perspective comes through; some are directly taken from later in the series (like the talk with Cat), some are things like the "Burn them all" speech. He's a lot more sympathetic than in book 1, so I was really looking forward to it in the books (and wasn't disappointed). The bit in Crows that started to annoy me was the Dorne stuff. It really could have been done in an epilogue, since it's got a suitably big reveal, but I just didn't care enough up until that point. Feels like it'll be one of the bits the show reworks.
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Feb 16, 2012 06:57
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FoC Spoilers I really liked the whole thing with Cerse thinking she was this gamechanger and her incredibly useless small council with the only vaguely useful people being Pycelle and Qyburn. She also led to one of my favorite off screen moments of Bronn becoming Lord Stokeworth which is just hilarious. Also Feast introduces the best new characters: Ser Pounce, Lady Whiskers, and Boots. On a closing note, how do you people not like Dorne chapters? I can't get enough of that place.
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Feb 16, 2012 07:33
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Honest Ray posted:On a closing note, how do you people not like Dorne chapters? I can't get enough of that place. Too few of them, too scattered, and the PoV jumped around too much (4 chapters for 3 characters). I liked seeing a new area, but I had no attachment to any of the people. While it obviously had some relation to the other events (Myrcella being used as a pawn by some of the younger Martells, the aftermath of the Red Viper's fight), it didn't quite fit in well. The ending helped a bit. Basically I either wanted more of it, or less.
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Feb 16, 2012 07:49
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