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Ooh, ooh, we're sharing college failure stories! My calc 2 class started the year with ~50 people. Taking the final, there were ~10 of us. I think maybe 7 of us passed? It was like Shalinor said, it was a weeder class and it was BRUTAL, but I felt like a hero for managing to scrape through with a C. But then my sophomore year, I took the first of the theoretical CS courses in the major. Up until and after that, I'd blow the doors off any classes with applied knowledge, but I'd always have trouble with the theory classes and had to work way harder. I struggled and floundered, despite being friends with a bunch of the TAs and constantly hassling them for help. After the final for that first class, I had something like a 69.5 and thus failed in the eyes of the school. I talked to the professor, trying to eek out that extra .5% so I could pass and he said, "Well, I just wouldn't feel comfortable passing you because that would send the message to my colleagues that you were ready to move on." Ugh. Failure was not something I was used to and I called my mother in all sorts of panic to tell her that I'd have to repeat the class. She laughed and said, "Good, you needed to fail something." I take the class again the following year, and it's much easier, doubly so because a friend was like, "Hey, here is this really good book. Read it and it'll all make sense." (http://www-math.mit.edu/~sipser/book.html fwiw!) And lo, it did. I passed the second time through without a problem. Thanks, Sipser! Come graduation, as they're handing me my diploma, the professor who failed me, shook my hand, laughed, and said, "I'm glad you got your act together and managed to make it through!" Then I ended up in a career as a designer and haven't gotten to shout "BIG OH!!!" at anyone in a long time.
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Feb 18, 2012 13:15
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Tricky Ed posted:If this is true, don't take it again until you know your goal and exactly how passing that class will help you get to that goal. It sounds like you need to decide on a destination before you can motivate yourself to clear your path to it. That's the thing, i know what i enjoy doing. I enjoy creating all manners of things. I spent my first year of university loving around making levels in Hammer and writing zombie gamemodes in Lua. I spent last year teaching myself how to model in 3d because i felt like it. I know for certain that my strengths lie in my creativity and this career would play to those strengths. I just can't for the life of me get over this mental block.
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Feb 18, 2012 17:04
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I failed Math for Liberal Arts majors three times. (Well kind of, I actually aced it when I finally got to complete the entire course, but the first three times I had to withdraw midway through due to being sent to Iraq, or being deployed domestically.)
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Feb 18, 2012 17:35
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Seeing as we're on the topic of job paths, I hope it's OK if I interject asking for some advice, as well. My long term goal is to go into production or pre-production, and since there doesn't seem to be an obvious entry level position connected to that to shoot for, I've been stuck on how I want to enter the industry. I thought maybe just going with whatever position seems to interest me most and then trying to get a lead position to later use as a launchpad towards production would be the best bet, and I've been having trouble picking one that fits me the best. I'm an artist and modeler (though I prefer working with 3D art then 2D art, so I consider myself more of a technical artist than a traditional one), and currently I've been waffling between asset creation and character creation. I find character creation to be a lot more enjoyable than asset creation and that I'm better at designing characters over assets, but character design is so competitive that I'm hesitant to commit when my heart isn't in it 100%. That, and I hate rigging. A teacher of mine recently advised me that he quickest way to production is through level design because it shows that you understand how game design works on a broader scale. It's really given me food for thought, especially since I never considered level design, partially because I was so caught up in my identity of being an "artist" and partially because my roommate has been encouraging me to do something with all the character designs I do in my free time. I guess I'm looking for some opinions on the matter. While it would be nice to get to production as fast as possible, I as want to enjoy the journey there and gain valuable experience along the way.
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Feb 19, 2012 01:05
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Adel posted:Seeing as we're on the topic of job paths, I hope it's OK if I interject asking for some advice, as well. What do you mean by production or pre-production? Those are development phases but most folks in the industry are going to be working through all of those within their discipline. Later on you seem to be talking about Production as a discipline (ie where there are producers) and I'm sure someone like Megashark could talk more about that, but as far as I'm aware there is no such thing as a Pre-Producer  Film will have these sorts of phases contracted out separately and there are whole pre-viz-only companies, etc, but as far as I'm aware no game developer is breaking these out into concrete disciplines or teams - the reality is that much of pre-pro in the games industry is about figuring out the feasibility of your production pipeline and your core design, and production is everything that happens afterwards. I'm assuming you're using these as film terms, and I think you are going to find that outside of concept art, there is not much in the way of a pre-production-only position. The Idea Guys positions tend to see their way through the whole process. The terms "traditional artist" and "technical artist" are not antonyms, technical artist in games development means a technically-inclined person in the art department, usually focused on either setup (technical animators/riggers), or tool making/pipeline. I work at Volition where we've got a pretty strong tech-art and tools focus in-general, so we're very much skewed towards the technical/tools pipeline side of things for technical artist positions, but at other companies (so I'm told) technical artists are a bit softer and do more art and less tech (whereas here the closest they come to making art is making automated tools that generate art) Traditional art skills (ie, non-digital) aren't really applicable directly outside of building foundational skills or in the discipline of concept art. The producers I know usually get there from a different discipline, QA, Audio, Art, the only producer I know personally that went straight through production basically worked his way up from nightclub organization/entertainment management stuff (low level stuff) into an associate producer job for the english branch of a k-mmo, before jumping around to some other, more respected developers and larger producer jobs. Everyone else I know has gotten in through a different discipline first. I don't think any particular discipline makes it easier, the important part is hitting a discipline where you can be exposed to the broad stretch of the game and be able to see how a large team works - from there, getting leadership experience (we have a lot of project managers and producers here from QA for this reason - it's easy to go from QA to a QA lead and get quickly involved in the management aspect, and it lacks the requirement of a long-cultivated craft like most development-side positions).
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Feb 19, 2012 02:09
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I took calc 1 at a community college. It was a breeze. I transferred to university the next quarter and started calc 2. The instructor raced through a bunch of "remedial" stuff to remind us of where "we" left off in calc 1. I had no idea what he was talking about. I dropped the class on the first day, and registered to take calc 1 again. This time at university. So don't mix and match calc 1-3 between colleges, would be my recommendation. Ultimately I found calc 2 to be challenging but not all that bad. I had a hell of a time with linear algebra though, which is a much more shameful problem for a game programmer.
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Feb 19, 2012 02:11
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I passed Calculus for Business Majors with a C 
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Feb 19, 2012 02:16
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Interview at Carbine Studios for a scripter position went well, in the sense that I applied too early and the position will probably be filled by the time I graduate -- however, the guy I talked to was pretty optimistic about another similar position opening up before I left school and said I would be fast-tracked onto a on-site interview if it came to that. I'm just waiting until I can post as the one person who apparently passed their college level calculus courses their first time  You show me a three-dimensional form and I will differentiate the hell out of it.
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Feb 19, 2012 02:59
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I can't do a lick of math unless I'm playing darts. Just out of interest, how important is mathematics in programming? I've never had to use any kind of mathematics above the highschool dropout level so far, but then again I've barely done any C++ and spend most of my time in Actionscript. I assume it's not as important for scripting...
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Feb 19, 2012 03:09
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loving maths people and yer fangled numbers 
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Feb 19, 2012 03:25
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x
anime was right fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2012 06:24
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Category Fun! posted:I can't do a lick of math unless I'm playing darts. Just out of interest, how important is mathematics in programming? I've never had to use any kind of mathematics above the highschool dropout level so far, but then again I've barely done any C++ and spend most of my time in Actionscript. I assume it's not as important for scripting...
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Feb 19, 2012 06:34
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Waterbed posted:I actually just got a response from carbine the other day haha. This world is too small I swear. And I got shot down by them the other day. 
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Feb 19, 2012 06:40
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mutata posted:And I got shot down by them the other day. What did you apply for?
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Feb 19, 2012 06:53
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I'm interested in any programming jobs going in NZ/Australia, I have just come out of Gameloft Auckland where I was working for 18 months (Lead Programmer on Silent Ops for iOS, also worked on various other iOS/Android/3DS things). C++/OpenGL/DirectX, specialising in mobile dev (mainly iOS). Most of my work has been in gameplay, and I quite enjoy that, although I have done a bit of engine/graphics work as well. Fabre fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Feb 19, 2012 |
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Feb 19, 2012 07:33
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Waterbed posted:
Um, 3D Artist. It would've been in the props department.
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Feb 19, 2012 07:53
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Category Fun! posted:I can't do a lick of math unless I'm playing darts. Just out of interest, how important is mathematics in programming? I've never had to use any kind of mathematics above the highschool dropout level so far, but then again I've barely done any C++ and spend most of my time in Actionscript. I assume it's not as important for scripting...
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Feb 19, 2012 12:00
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Adel posted:...Advice questions... First question, so I can understand more: What is it you think a Producer does? Even more, what is it you want to do on the game? Sigma-X hit the nail on the head about Producer backgrounds. You could come from almost any background but what I've found is the most important is familiarity with how to make the game. I came from the rare Programmer -> Production track but our Director of Production came from the QA track many years ago. Right now I'm specifically looking for someone who has worked as an Artist to be an Associate Producer. Whatever I'm telling you is only half correct anyways because Producers have different responsibilities in different companies. If you were to describe my role it would be more synonymous to Project Manager in any other Software industry, though not exactly. As to respond to one thing about Level Design being the fastest way into Production, I would highly disagree. I would say first that it's really up to you and your drive and the opportunities you take advantage of. I'd imagine being QA is truly the fastest way into Production, purely because as QA you're not working on project specific tasks and you're not making some critical asset, etc. If you distinguished yourself there and showed great organizational and communication skills then you'd have a good chance of getting moved to Production quickly. That requires wherever you're working to have QA and an opening in Production.
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Feb 19, 2012 18:47
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Ugh.... Recruiter: "Would you be interested in a community job at [big name company]? They've got kind of an interesting role that's been open for a while. [details]" Me: "Sure, that sounds perfect!" Recruiter: "Cool, I've already gone over the broad strokes of your resume with them when I was talking with them, and they're also interested in you! I'll forward you to them." Next day: HR Person from BNC: "Your resume looks fantastic, are you available for a phone call with the community team tomorrow? They're very interested!" Me: "Of course!" Next day: BNC: "So this job is sort of above a normal community manager position, which seems great considering your experience, but isn't quite director level. You won't be managing teams of CMs, but rather helping out the director manage their day-to-day stuff as well as coming up with new strategies and working with the different production teams to get content and etc etc etc, 'it's really more of an associate producer slash community job.' You'll be going to shows/conferences and sitting with various teams at different times to work on specific initiatives." Me: "That sounds perfect and is exactly what I want to be doing! Wow, perfect!" BNC: "Yeah, we've been looking for someone with more than just a couple years of community experience for the role, and it's been open for quite some time. We're very excited, so our HR person will be in touch in the next 3-4 days to set up next steps! We have great benefits and our office is in a great part of town!" I follow up with the HR person, then the recruiter. A week later (6 business days), the recruiter calls me back. Recruiter: "Oh hey, yeah, that position at BNC? It turns out that was only a entry-level temporary, remote contract position, no relocation, you'd work from home on 1099 contract, are you still interested? Me: "That doesn't make any sense at all, are you sure that's right? They were pretty specific to me that I'd move to [City] and it wasn't entry level, remote, or contract..." Recruiter: "Yeah, that was a change from what they'd told us previously, we've sent a couple candidates to them in the past, you were definitely the strongest one and everything, so are you still interested?" Me: "Sure, why not?" [thinking maybe it was a misunderstanding or something] That was two weeks ago, and emails to both the recruiter and the HR person have gone unanswered. Position is still open on the website, and is much closer to the original description.
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Feb 19, 2012 19:10
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This could only be an elaborate scheme to recruit you as a salesman for Cutco knives.
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Feb 19, 2012 19:51
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mutata posted:Um, 3D Artist. It would've been in the props department. Sorry to hear that man, your texturing would fit in perfect there.
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Feb 19, 2012 21:21
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Thank you Sigma-X and Mega Shark for answering, I really appreciate your insight. I'm still a student and my knowledge about the industry is based on hearsay more than experience, and I'm sure it shows, so I'm sorry if I'm not very clear. I think my use of "pre-production" was wrong and I meant just normal production. Also, thank you for correcting me on my use of the term "technical artist." It clearly didn't mean what I thought it did. By production, I do mean that I would like to be a producer based on classes I've had where I acted as the producer for a group project. We had to make a working game prototype and my job was to basically prioritize tasks, set deadlines and goals, and work with the other team leads (I was also doubling as the design lead) to make sure everyone was meeting said deadlines. I enjoyed being able to oversee thing, but thinking back, I think part of that enjoyment also came from being the design lead. Being in a leadership position is very fulfilling to me and I like working and leading groups towards an end goal more than just doing my own thing. QA isn't something I'm interested in, but thank you for the tip. Based on what you guys have said, I think I still don't really understand what kind of path I want to take and I need to think more on it. All I can say for sure is that I want to do something related to 3D art and design, and I'm just frustrated that I can't narrow it down further than that.
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Feb 19, 2012 22:03
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Adel posted:I want to take and I need to think more on it. All I can say for sure is that I want to do something related to 3D art and design  A producer is not an artist, programmer or designer. A producer that uses their position to try and force art, programming or design dictates down on the team is, in fact, a pretty bad producer. A producer... just produces. Their lone creative input into the project is that they wield the scissors, and can in some ways coax the project toward a goal by choosing what to cut when the schedule is tight. Of course, they still don't do that without working with the design lead, so you're still far from the chief voice in the room. If you want to do something related to 3d art and design, then you should probably be an artist or designer.
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Feb 19, 2012 22:14
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Shalinor posted:I'm still not sure you get what that means, though This hits the nail on the head for the most part. That being said, at places like EA Producer's do a lot of design, so it's not a hard and fast rule. For the most part though, this is right on.
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Feb 19, 2012 22:32
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Producer is, in my experience, a total misnomer.
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Feb 19, 2012 23:11
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BizarroAzrael posted:Producer is, in my experience, a total misnomer. Spreadsheet Artist or Gant Observation Technician doesn't have the same appeal, though
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Feb 19, 2012 23:55
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And if you want to be an artist, the only 2 pieces of advice you need are "make game art" and "keep making more game art".
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Feb 20, 2012 00:04
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Again, thank you very much to everyone for your insight and patience, as I'm sure you've probably had this kind of talk with a lot of people like me. I think the impression I've had of what a producer is was largely incorrect, especially since I thought it was more involved with the creative process than it actually (generally) is. I certainly don't want to be the type of person who forces a vision down everyone's throat, as Shalinor warned against, since I believe that the best ideas come from collaboration. For now I'll just stick to making art. Worrying about having a definite "endgame" for my potential career seems to be counterproductive, especially considering my lack of experience.
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Feb 20, 2012 02:53
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Adel posted:Again, thank you very much to everyone for your insight and patience, as I'm sure you've probably had this kind of talk with a lot of people like me. I think the impression I've had of what a producer is was largely incorrect, especially since I thought it was more involved with the creative process than it actually (generally) is. I certainly don't want to be the type of person who forces a vision down everyone's throat, as Shalinor warned against, since I believe that the best ideas come from collaboration. I think focusing on a craft is the best for you regardless of if you want to become senior in the craft or go the Production track later in your career.
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Feb 20, 2012 04:40
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Adel posted:For now I'll just stick to making art. Worrying about having a definite "endgame" for my potential career seems to be counterproductive, especially considering my lack of experience. Remember that you have time to figure out what you're best suited for. What's important now is not that you make the right decision, just that you have a personal goal that will motivate you to become better and more employable. If, later on, you find that you want to do something else, you can adjust that goal; you're by no means locked in. If you put the decision off until you're looking for work, you'll be jumping off a cliff into the raging, uncertain waters of probable unemployment. If you make that decision while you have a few years of school left, you'll be stepping off the precipice into a safe, inviting kiddie pool. Splash around, give it your best, and if it doesn't work out, you can always hop out and try something else, emboldened by your previous kiddie-pool-wallowing experience. wasabimilkshake fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Feb 20, 2012 |
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Feb 20, 2012 05:49
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wasabimilkshake posted:Splash around, give it your best, and if it doesn't work out, you can always hop out and try something else, emboldened by your previous kiddie-pool-wallowing experience. So I know the one studio has a ball pit, but today, I saw something way cooler. They did the yoga class in the gymnastics room instead of the usual place, and in addition to the usual awesome springy floor thing, they had a loooong trampoline that terminated in what appeared to be a massive hole filled with squares of foam. Designed to be jumped into, I guess, though there was also a zipline. Screw a ball pit, I want a boardroom with a lengthwise-oriented trampoline with zipline over top, terminating in a giant foam pit. "Oh, man, your numbers aren't so good... you know, if you want to help yourself, you could try for a flip to roundoff belly flop into the foam pit." It's like a ball pit, but for adults. I suppose just a zipline into a foam pit might stand a better chance of not making the insurers want to murder you in your sleep, though. EDIT: The question related to that, though, is does anyone working at once of the offices with weird stuff like ball pits or full-on gymnastics rooms happen to know how that all flies under whatever insurance the studio I imagine must carry? It seems like even a decently set-up fitness room would carry with it the increased risk of workman's comp claims. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 20, 2012 |
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Feb 20, 2012 05:52
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Retro has a full sauna in it, that apparently is never used but still kept clean and ready for use.
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Feb 20, 2012 06:12
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I failed Calc and wound up working in QA...
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Feb 20, 2012 08:05
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Mega Shark posted:I think focusing on a craft is the best for you regardless of if you want to become senior in the craft or go the Production track later in your career. I've just started my first week off in... I don't even know how long. I don't know what to do with myself 
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Feb 20, 2012 09:33
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GeauxSteve posted:I failed Calc and wound up working in QA... I failed Literature and I'm now a sysadmin...
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Feb 20, 2012 12:07
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dunkman posted:Ugh.... This isn't the job we discussed is it?
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Feb 20, 2012 12:16
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Monster w21 Faces posted:This isn't the job we discussed is it? Nope, different one. That one is going just fine so far
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Feb 20, 2012 20:53
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Any Bungie employees around here? I have a couple of employment questions (you can PM me.) Thanks in advance.
Paniolo fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 20, 2012 |
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Feb 20, 2012 23:45
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Shalinor posted:EDIT: The question related to that, though, is does anyone working at once of the offices with weird stuff like ball pits or full-on gymnastics rooms happen to know how that all flies under whatever insurance the studio I imagine must carry? It seems like even a decently set-up fitness room would carry with it the increased risk of workman's comp claims. If I remember correctly, Epic has a rock climbing wall/gymnasium thing. I'd imagine there'd be a waiver thing they had you sign, similar to any gym/rock climbing place.
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Feb 21, 2012 22:30
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So i'm thinking of applying to a school and just focusing on Calc 2 for my first semester so i can get it out of the way. I live in Canada so my choices are a bit limited. Does anyone here have any pointers? Which schools have good programs for someone like me looking to eventually land a job in this field? I WAS at Concordia University, which I liked, but since i failed 2 of my classes they basically said i need to gently caress off for a while before i reapply to my program. Being in Montreal and being in a program that leads to jobs in the various gaming companies in the city is a good thing. I love Montreal too so despite my lovely marks in the 2 math courses i failed I would go back, given the chance.
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Feb 21, 2012 23:04
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