The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > The Dorkroom > The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

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General Gingersnap: Jan 27, 2009

It isn't a rangefinder because it doesn't use split focusing, none of the Fuji cameras do. The system is missing half of what makes a rangefinder a rangefinder. That said, I still want a X-Pro1

# ? Feb 19, 2012 19:48

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# ? May 16, 2024 21:03

SoundMonkey: Apr 22, 2006; I just push buttons.

whatever7 posted:

I call it mirrorless. If I want to take the piss, I call it an EVIL.

Fuji cameras include an optical viewfinder, which make them different from the rest. I am calling them rangefinders.

If and when Fuji make a "NEX-5n" version of XPro1, which is a XPro1 without the viewfinders, and sell it for around 800-900, I would call it a mirrorless version.

Scale focus cameras include optical viewfinders often. Clearly this makes them rangefinders, despite having literally no method of determining whether or not something is in focus.

What I mean to say is you're wrong.

EDIT: So my digital P&S with the optical viewfinder is now also a rangefinder I guess, by that rationale. HELLO RESALE VALUE!

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:07

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

A disposable camera would be a rangefinder under such a loose definition.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:10

SoundMonkey: Apr 22, 2006; I just push buttons.

HPL posted:

A disposable camera would be a rangefinder under such a loose definition.

Speaking of disposable cameras, one time I got a rangefinder at the rangefinder, then I went and rangefindered a pretty good rangefinder with it, it's now rangefindered and mounted on my wall at rangefinder, so overall it's one of my best rangefinders, I rangefinder.

EDIT: Rangefinder

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:12

8th-snype: Aug 28, 2005; My office is in the front room of a run-down 12 megapixel sensor but the rent suits me and the landlord doesn't ask many questions.

Dorkroom Short Fiction Champion 2012; Young Orc

I seem to be having trouble with my rangefinder.

Anyone know how I can upload the photos from it to Flickr? TIA

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:18

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

SoundMonkey posted:

Speaking of disposable cameras, one time I got a rangefinder at the rangefinder, then I went and rangefindered a pretty good rangefinder with it, it's now rangefindered and mounted on my wall at rangefinder, so overall it's one of my best rangefinders, I rangefinder.

EDIT: Rangefinder

I heard you like rangefinders, so I put a rangefinder on a rangefinder.

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# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:23

RustedChrome: Jun 10, 2007; "do not hold the camera obliquely, or the world will seem to be on an inclined plane."

I knew I shouldn't have sold my Canon G9. I could get a lot more for it now that it's a rangefinder! :doh:

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:26

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

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# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:47

SoundMonkey: Apr 22, 2006; I just push buttons.

HPL posted:

Admittedly it's only like 1PM, but this will probably continue to be the best thing I've seen all day.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:51

Ghumbs: Jan 1, 2006

Not to get off topic or anything but HPL certainly has a lot of pink carpet and upholstery rangefinder rangefinder rangefinder rangefinder.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:51

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Mods please rename the Toy Camera thread to the Rangefinder Discussion Station.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 21:55

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I use the word "rangefinder" base on its traditional photography style and market demographic, literally.

Feel free to argue the use of the word "literally" or keep posting funny photos.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 22:15

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

Ghumbs posted:

Not to get off topic or anything but HPL certainly has a lot of pink carpet and upholstery rangefinder rangefinder rangefinder rangefinder.

It's beige.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 22:20

Clayton Bigsby: Apr 17, 2005

HPL posted:

It's beige.

I bet if you shot with a rangefinder your WB wouldn't be so off.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 22:21

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

whatever7 posted:

I use the word "rangefinder" base on its traditional photography style and market demographic, literally.

Feel free to argue the use of the word "literally" or keep posting funny photos.

You are "literally" a retard.

The term "rangefinder" is not a style or demographic.

# ? Feb 19, 2012 22:28

RustedChrome: Jun 10, 2007; "do not hold the camera obliquely, or the world will seem to be on an inclined plane."

# ? Feb 19, 2012 22:36

Anmitzcuaca: Nov 23, 2005

whatever7 posted:

I call it mirrorless. If I want to take the piss, I call it an EVIL.

Fuji cameras include an optical viewfinder, which make them different from the rest. I am calling them rangefinders.

If and when Fuji make a "NEX-5n" version of XPro1, which is a XPro1 without the viewfinders, and sell it for around 800-900, I would call it a mirrorless version.

Does attaching the optional viewfinder to the 5N allow it to ascend to the status of rangefinder then?

# ? Feb 20, 2012 00:05

General Gingersnap: Jan 27, 2009

Look how big this guys rangefinder is:

# ? Feb 20, 2012 00:10

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

Clayton Bigsby posted:

I bet if you shot with a rangefinder your WB wouldn't be so off.

Real rangefinders don't need white balance because they run a steady diet of Tri-X.

# ? Feb 20, 2012 01:46

Bouillon Rube: Aug 6, 2009

AceClown posted:

You are "literally" a retard.

The term "rangefinder" is not a style or demographic.

expand your horizons, embrace the rangefinder lifestyle bro

# ? Feb 20, 2012 02:16

ChiTownEddie: Mar 26, 2010; Awesome beer, no pants.
Join the Legion.

For you m4/3 peoples:
Which is considered better, the oly 17mm/2.8 or the panasonic 14mm/2.5?

I am strongly considering getting a mirrorless and I like my semi-wide primes haha.

# ? Feb 20, 2012 16:58

Costello Jello: Oct 24, 2003; It had to start somewhere

ChiTownEddie posted:

For you m4/3 peoples:
Which is considered better, the oly 17mm/2.8 or the panasonic 14mm/2.5?

You should get the Panasonic 14 mm between the two, because the Olympus 17 mm is too redundant in focal length to the superior Panasonic 20 mm f/1.7.

# ? Feb 20, 2012 17:27

wheres my beer: Apr 29, 2004; Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty; Fun Shoe

ChiTownEddie posted:

For you m4/3 peoples:
Which is considered better, the oly 17mm/2.8 or the panasonic 14mm/2.5?

I am strongly considering getting a mirrorless and I like my semi-wide primes haha.

I just love the heck out of my Panasonic 14mm/2.5

# ? Feb 20, 2012 18:11

Clayton Bigsby: Apr 17, 2005

Costello Jello posted:

You should get the Panasonic 14 mm between the two, because the Olympus 17 mm is too redundant in focal length to the superior Panasonic 20 mm f/1.7.

Is 12 too wide? The Olympus 12/2 has been getting some very good reviews.

# ? Feb 20, 2012 19:22

Costello Jello: Oct 24, 2003; It had to start somewhere

Clayton Bigsby posted:

Is 12 too wide? The Olympus 12/2 has been getting some very good reviews.

There's no right answer to that, it's all personal preference. It really depends on what you want from the lens, and what your other lenses are. If you want an all purpose prime you can just slap on your camera and forget about it, then yes, it's too wide. That's a fantastic focal length for landscapes of course, but if you take pictures of people or indoors, it can sometimes look pretty goofy, especially on the outer portions of the frame. There's just enough difference that you don't really notice that on a 28 mm lens.

But on the other hand, if you already had the Panasonic 20 mm prime, then you've already got a great all-purpose prime that is good for people shots, and non-wide landscapes and buildings. So a wide 24 mm prime would be a good compliment to that, especially if you were okay with carrying both lenses with you.

# ? Feb 20, 2012 19:52

Clayton Bigsby: Apr 17, 2005

Costello Jello posted:

There's no right answer to that, it's all personal preference. It really depends on what you want from the lens, and what your other lenses are. If you want an all purpose prime you can just slap on your camera and forget about it, then yes, it's too wide. That's a fantastic focal length for landscapes of course, but if you take pictures of people or indoors, it can sometimes look pretty goofy, especially on the outer portions of the frame. There's just enough difference that you don't really notice that on a 28 mm lens.

But on the other hand, if you already had the Panasonic 20 mm prime, then you've already got a great all-purpose prime that is good for people shots, and non-wide landscapes and buildings. So a wide 24 mm prime would be a good compliment to that, especially if you were okay with carrying both lenses with you.

I meant for this particular guy, not in general, but that was still a good post.

FWIW, having "grown up" in the film days, I still think 28 is fairly wide, 24 almost-extreme and anything past that is just wild stuff. So I am always amazed when people keep talking about using 18 or 21mm as their primary landscape tool. I just can't compose properly with those focal lengths (I own a 14mm I use on FF but that is for very special purposes only) and get too much "stuff" in the shot for me to feel comfortable with.

Clayton Bigsby fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Feb 20, 2012

# ? Feb 20, 2012 20:14

ChiTownEddie: Mar 26, 2010; Awesome beer, no pants.
Join the Legion.

I am really torn. How did those of you with a mirrorless camera make your choice of which system?

On one hand is the lessor sensor of the m4/3 but with more native lenses. On the other hand is NEX with the sensor but basically no lenses (the 24 is a biiiit out of my price range).

Non-native lenses are not really a factor to me, but I do realize that it'd be a superior experience on the NEX with peak focusing.

Any insights guys?
Also anyone with an E-PL2/3 (I guess E-P2/3 too), how is the video for you? Not a serious video person but I'd like to have it be 'usable'.

# ? Feb 20, 2012 23:33

wheres my beer: Apr 29, 2004; Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty; Fun Shoe

ChiTownEddie posted:

I am really torn. How did those of you with a mirrorless camera make your choice of which system?

On one hand is the lessor sensor of the m4/3 but with more native lenses. On the other hand is NEX with the sensor but basically no lenses (the 24 is a biiiit out of my price range).

Non-native lenses are not really a factor to me, but I do realize that it'd be a superior experience on the NEX with peak focusing.

Any insights guys?
Also anyone with an E-PL2/3 (I guess E-P2/3 too), how is the video for you? Not a serious video person but I'd like to have it be 'usable'.

I know you didn't mention it but I really like my GF2 and they're getting supremely inexpensive.

# ? Feb 20, 2012 23:43

RustedChrome: Jun 10, 2007; "do not hold the camera obliquely, or the world will seem to be on an inclined plane."

ChiTownEddie posted:

I am really torn. How did those of you with a mirrorless camera make your choice of which system?

On one hand is the lessor sensor of the m4/3 but with more native lenses. On the other hand is NEX with the sensor but basically no lenses (the 24 is a biiiit out of my price range).

Non-native lenses are not really a factor to me, but I do realize that it'd be a superior experience on the NEX with peak focusing.

Any insights guys?
...

I've found that the difference in image quality is fairly minor. It's not something that jumps out at you when you see a photo. It's more of a thing that gets attention on technical tests and pixel peeping forums than a real world issue. You can make great photos with either system. (I have a full-frame DSLR but I choose to use my mirrorless cameras 90% of the time)

# ? Feb 21, 2012 00:10

Cacator: Aug 6, 2005; You're quite good at turning me on.

ChiTownEddie posted:

I am really torn. How did those of you with a mirrorless camera make your choice of which system?

On one hand is the lessor sensor of the m4/3 but with more native lenses. On the other hand is NEX with the sensor but basically no lenses (the 24 is a biiiit out of my price range).

Non-native lenses are not really a factor to me, but I do realize that it'd be a superior experience on the NEX with peak focusing.

Any insights guys?
Also anyone with an E-PL2/3 (I guess E-P2/3 too), how is the video for you? Not a serious video person but I'd like to have it be 'usable'.

E-P3 and others are not good for video due to jelly-like "rolling shutter" effect. Basically if you plan on moving the camera while filming and using image stabilization, don't bother. The E-M5 seems to have addressed this quite well however, as well as sensor performance. I chose m4/3 over NEX mainly because I didn't like the ergonomics, handling and big lenses of the NEX, and because I'm not really interested in manual lenses, but with the peaking feature it does get a lot more intuitive.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 00:12

ChiTownEddie: Mar 26, 2010; Awesome beer, no pants.
Join the Legion.

Ah thanks guys. I am definitely getting caught up in the tech specs a bit more than I normally would. haha. I was planning on heading over to a camera shop to see if I could hold and compare them and I guess that will end up being one of the major factors.
Thanks for the tip about the P3 series and video. Definitely scratches those off my list.

And wow yeah...the GF2 can be gotten used for insanely cheap.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 00:50

Cough Drop The Beat: Jan 22, 2012; by Lowtax

Where's the best place to pick up a cheap used GF2, by the way? eBay? I'm trying to figure out if I want an E-PL1/2 or a GF1/2 for my entry into the world of m4/3. I'm thinking the Panasonic 20mm pancake would cover me for most of what I would do, then I decide from there if I need a zoom and/or wider lens.

Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 21, 2012

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:00

Shmoogy: Mar 21, 2007

ChiTownEddie posted:

I am really torn. How did those of you with a mirrorless camera make your choice of which system?

Originally, and still have my X100 (selling it shortly). I chose the nex 5n over m4/3 because the 16mm pancake is 'good enough' for my autofocus lens, and the other(s) will likely be legacy lenses. The 2x crop factor was a downside for me, as I wanted wider lenses.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:03

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

ChiTownEddie posted:

I am really torn. How did those of you with a mirrorless camera make your choice of which system?

The 5N is excellent in low light and is good with old manual focus lenses. I seriously considered going m43 because of the selection of fast primes but in the end the sensor won me over and I haven't regretted the decision aside from the times I want to use a hot shoe accessory on my camera.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:58

Cacator: Aug 6, 2005; You're quite good at turning me on.

gently caress, my 3-day-old X100 has a hot pixel on the sensor. It's off to the side and I would have never noticed it if I didn't take some photos with a black background, and I guess it really isn't a big problem, but I'll always know it's there now. It only shows up in colour pictures.

Edit: Just took some test photos and can't see it no more. ...Good?

Edit 2: Nope, still there, but not always visible. Should I be more concerned about this, and send it to Fuji for fixin'?

Cacator fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Feb 22, 2012

# ? Feb 21, 2012 06:03

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I was having an argument in another forum and I decided to check out the Amazon's best selling list for all cameras.

I skip all the P&S and super P&S cameras and the final list for mirrorless camera and DSLR camera is pretty interesting.

code:

11: Olympus EPL1 kit $275
13: D5100 kit $750
14: Canon Rebel T3 $500
18: Canon T2i (550D) kit $650
19: T3i (600D) kit $800
21: Nikon D3100 kit $600
28: T2i body $500 
38: T3i body $625
76: T3i 2 lens kit $900
78: 60D body $900
81: X100 $1185
87: D7000 body $1200

The X100 is essentially outselling all but one mirrorless camera SKU

If you just want to see the mirrorless camera rankings, here is the separated list.

# ? Feb 22, 2012 04:56

ChiTownEddie: Mar 26, 2010; Awesome beer, no pants.
Join the Legion.

Thanks for the additional viewpoints guys.
Tough choice ahead. hehe.

Bummer that on the m4/3 front it appears to be hard(ish) to find the 20/1.7.

# ? Feb 22, 2012 05:18

keyframe: Sep 15, 2007; I have seen things

As much as I hate the m4/3 sensor, the omd seems to be hitting all right notes. I will probably end up getting one. What is a nice 50mm equivalent lens for it?

Tried a NEX 5 at a store and found it too small for my liking.

# ? Feb 22, 2012 05:51

Cacator: Aug 6, 2005; You're quite good at turning me on.

keyframe posted:

As much as I hate the m4/3 sensor, the omd seems to be hitting all right notes. I will probably end up getting one. What is a nice 50mm equivalent lens for it?

Tried a NEX 5 at a store and found it too small for my liking.

Panasonic Leica 25mm f1.4 is fantastic, but was a little too expensive and similar in focal length to the 20mm for me.

Also, no suggestions on my X100's hot pixel? It doesn't seem to be common.

# ? Feb 22, 2012 05:55

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# ? May 16, 2024 21:03

Costello Jello: Oct 24, 2003; It had to start somewhere

Cacator posted:

Also, no suggestions on my X100's hot pixel? It doesn't seem to be common.

You've had it for 3 days, why not just return it?

# ? Feb 22, 2012 05:58

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