MSPaint Adventures - Homestuck Edition, the Final Acts

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Rohan Kishibe: Oct 29, 2011; Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

Seoinin posted:

haha

ahahahaha

By way of comparison here, let's say for instance that the sum total of self-perpetuating gimcrackery in Homestuck is more or less equivalent to the Challenger Deeps. Where you are, right now, is like those guys that went down in the Trieste for about twenty minutes, peeked out a window, and declared the whole mishegas "some serious poo poo" before bugging out.

Which is to say if you love the proceedings thus far you are in for a treat. a series of treats. shoveled unrelentingly at your face by some stony faced matron in a hair net who ignores your pleas for mercy. eat up, boyo.

e: Which is all to say it's charming at first but really the story's fascination with ever-increasing levels of recursive complexity gets real old after a certain point. Seriously this poo poo needs slash-and-burn style editing.

I disagree completely, all the crazy time shenanigans is the thing I like most about Homestuck.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 00:54

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# ? May 21, 2024 23:44

King of Solomon: Oct 23, 2008; S S

Nutsack Delinquent posted:

she thought she'd make it clear that she didn't buy the domain. that's all

So did she just take it as known that she owned the blog? I don't think anyone would have connected it to her otherwise.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 00:59

Nutsack Delinquent: Feb 20, 2012; by Ozmaugh

King of Solomon posted:

So did she just take it as known that she owned the blog? I don't think anyone would have connected it to her otherwise.

she reblogs it sometimes on her personal site, and she has a unique drawing style, so most people know it's her

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:01

TOAST7312: Oct 18, 2010; AT: uHHH, nO DAD NO!

I'm trying to understand why this blog business is pertinent to Homestuck and the recent developments in the updates. People get banned for reasons, regardless of validity, all the time. Not that I agree/disagree with it, it just doesn't seem like something to fuss over.

So why is this still a thing?

E: In addition, it's not as if she were posting her pictures here. I don't see why banning is necessarily in this case when people knowing you own such a site is ostracizing enough for most. Not like it matters really, I don't contest it.

TOAST7312 fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 21, 2012

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:05

Nutsack Delinquent: Feb 20, 2012; by Ozmaugh

TOAST7312 posted:

I'm trying to understand why this blog business is pertinent to Homestuck and the recent developments in the updates? People get banned for reasons, regardless of validity, all the time. Not that I agree/disagree with it, it just doesn't seem like something to fuss over.

So why is this still a thing?

she was banned for a post in this thread, which was made because of what people earlier in the thread were saying. i just came here to post once about how stupid the ban was

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:07

TOAST7312: Oct 18, 2010; AT: uHHH, nO DAD NO!

Nutsack Delinquent posted:

she was banned for a post in this thread, which was made because of what people earlier in the thread were saying. i just came here to post once about how stupid the ban was

I got that much. That wasn't really what I was asking.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:10

Nutsack Delinquent: Feb 20, 2012; by Ozmaugh

TOAST7312 posted:

I got that much. That wasn't really what I was asking.

cool

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:11

MrBims: Sep 25, 2007; by Ralp

TOAST7312 posted:

I'm trying to understand why this blog business is pertinent to Homestuck and the recent developments in the updates. People get banned for reasons, regardless of validity, all the time. Not that I agree/disagree with it, it just doesn't seem like something to fuss over.

So why is this still a thing?

E: In addition, it's not as if she were posting her pictures here. I don't see why banning is necessarily in this case when people knowing you own such a site is ostracizing enough for most. Not like it matters really, I don't contest it.

Pornographic drawings of fictional children isn't something that SA to be associated with in even the most tangential manner. It's not a thing, it is done and over with. Laugh at it, or don't, and move on. Don't respond to nutsack please, he's probably a rereg of someone who got chased out of FYAD before and is just looking to start trouble.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:12

TOAST7312: Oct 18, 2010; AT: uHHH, nO DAD NO!

MrBims posted:

Pornographic drawings of fictional children isn't something that SA to be associated with in even the most tangential manner. It's not a thing, it is done and over with. Laugh at it, or don't, and move on. Don't respond to nutsack please, he's probably a rereg of someone who got chased out of FYAD before and is just looking to start trouble.

This is a fair answer, and thank you. The topic has absconded, and has taken all of the theorycraft. It was a... distaction

# ? Feb 21, 2012 01:43

Ape Has Killed Ape: Sep 15, 2005

Nutsack Delinquent posted:

she thought she'd make it clear that she didn't buy the domain. that's all

Let's see here, registered today, defending a banned user. Hmmmm. HMMMMMMMMMM.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 02:12

Saradiart: Dec 13, 2009; OPENING MY TAI CHI IS ABOUT AS APPEALING AS THE GOATMAN OPENING HIS ANUS

Seoinin posted:

Comments

I sort of agree entirely. I'm also getting sick of this need to create STUNNING CONFUSING CLIFFHANGER every few updates. It was interesting at first when we got some pretty amazing revelations -- like Aradia recounting the creation of the human universe.

But, now, I dunno. Just feels like he's trying to be JJ Abrams with all these completely unnecessary cliffhangers and mysteries.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 02:17

Pastrymancy: Feb 20, 2011; 11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?

Saradiart posted:

I sort of agree entirely. I'm also getting sick of this need to create STUNNING CONFUSING CLIFFHANGER every few updates. It was interesting at first when we got some pretty amazing revelations -- like Aradia recounting the creation of the human universe.

But, now, I dunno. Just feels like he's trying to be JJ Abrams with all these completely unnecessary cliffhangers and mysteries.

My writing teacher talked about that. She called it "treating your reader like an rear end in a top hat" when you didn't pace well and let your readers figure stuff out gradually.

Yeah, Hussie really needs to tone down on the plot twists.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 02:34

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

Pastrymancy posted:

My writing teacher talked about that. She called it "treating your reader like an rear end in a top hat" when you didn't pace well and let your readers figure stuff out gradually.

Yeah, Hussie really needs to tone down on the plot twists.

I've said it before, the retroactive foreshadowing thing Hussie does works surprisingly well and I'm pretty sure he's overstating how impromptu the story is. On the other hand jesus christ. He keeps saying he writes for archival readers but I have no idea how you could pitch this to someone who isn't already into it.

Hey guy, here's a thing that's 10,000 pages long and more convoluted than a Pynchon salvia nightmare. Don't worry, I have flowcharts.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 03:21

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Saradiart posted:

But, now, I dunno. Just feels like he's trying to be JJ Abrams with all these completely unnecessary cliffhangers and mysteries.

It's a particularly big problem here in Act 6. The plot twists are coming on harder than ever, but without the benefit of several years of foreshadowing and character investment.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 03:26

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

I assume it's because we're going through the equivalent of four acts in one "act".

# ? Feb 21, 2012 03:30

Starmaker: Dec 29, 2009; My people I bring you a message from the Lord!

Pastrymancy posted:

My writing teacher talked about that. She called it "treating your reader like an rear end in a top hat" when you didn't pace well and let your readers figure stuff out gradually.

Yeah, Hussie really needs to tone down on the plot twists.

Really? Having a complex plot is treating your readers like assholes?

I mean, it's one thing to do the Lost/BSG/X-Files thing where you just kinda make poo poo up as you go along and never have a satisfying conclusion, but I feel like this story hasn't been pulling any of that poo poo. Sure it throws mysteries and twists and cliffhangers at you, but almost all of them that have been resolved so far have been resolved in a very satisfying way, and nothing has been so outlandish that he's ever written himself into a corner. The fact that a lot of this is made up as he goes along is a bit of a testament to his flexibility and adaptability, but it probably isn't something he can get away with indefinitely. Hopefully he knows where it's all going (or, maybe he always has. That's fine too.)

I do agree that there are some pacing problems. Parts can drag on awfully long sometimes, and while I'm pretty lucky that I enjoy his humour and writing style enough to enjoy even the slower bits, there have been portions, like Hivebent, where my interest diminished for awhile. I actually love Act 6 a lot, because I enjoyed the earlier acts and I really like the new characters, but I can understand some people not being too enthusiastic about it.

But yeah, Homestuck can be a pretty tough sell. It's gigantic and involving. Luckily he's not trying to sell it to anyone.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 03:53

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

Pastrymancy posted:

My writing teacher talked about that. She called it "treating your reader like an rear end in a top hat" when you didn't pace well and let your readers figure stuff out gradually.

Yeah, Hussie really needs to tone down on the plot twists.

Really, Act 6 has a number of major problems that seem to all be related back to the issue that, ostensibly over two-thirds of the way into the story, Hussie again has to expand on and build a backstory for a bunch of new characters we've never (really) seen before, while still moving quickly enough for the characters most people know and love to get back into the picture.

This has led to problems with pacing (too much exposition in the logs, and not enough showing gradually, which was already something of a problem in the early days of Hivebent), overdoing the plot twists (with EoA5, he'd wrapped up most of the mysteries that had been set out, and the remainder can't really be resolved until John and Co. return, so he has to introduce NEW mysteries at a high rate to keep the "intrigue" levels high), and other issues that basically make this like Hivebent all over again, except with less of a payoff (Since the only way that this ties in with what we've seen so far is with Liv Tyler. Most of the rest of the way this will tie-in is still only to be resolved in the future.)

TL;DR: I think Hussie wrote himself into a corner by being forced to basically introduce four new characters as late as Act 6.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 04:36

Pastrymancy: Feb 20, 2011; 11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?

Starmaker posted:

Really? Having a complex plot is treating your readers like assholes?

I mean, it's one thing to do the Lost/BSG/X-Files thing where you just kinda make poo poo up as you go along and never have a satisfying conclusion, but I feel like this story hasn't been pulling any of that poo poo. Sure it throws mysteries and twists and cliffhangers at you, but almost all of them that have been resolved so far have been resolved in a very satisfying way, and nothing has been so outlandish that he's ever written himself into a corner. The fact that a lot of this is made up as he goes along is a bit of a testament to his flexibility and adaptability, but it probably isn't something he can get away with indefinitely. Hopefully he knows where it's all going (or, maybe he always has. That's fine too.)

I do agree that there are some pacing problems. Parts can drag on awfully long sometimes, and while I'm pretty lucky that I enjoy his humour and writing style enough to enjoy even the slower bits, there have been portions, like Hivebent, where my interest diminished for awhile. I actually love Act 6 a lot, because I enjoyed the earlier acts and I really like the new characters, but I can understand some people not being too enthusiastic about it.

But yeah, Homestuck can be a pretty tough sell. It's gigantic and involving. Luckily he's not trying to sell it to anyone.

It's not so much complexity as it is kind of convoluted. I feel like I get really impatient every time an update happens because it just seems like it introduces new plot twists, character types, and whatnot at a rapid-fire pace. Writing a story well isn't just about how much stuff you pile onto it, but rather how all the events/characters are organized.

I dunno, by this time in Act 5 I was liking the trolls a lot more and I can't say the same for three out of four kids introduced this time around. It's not that I don't get or don't like Homestuck but I just would like the plot to slow down, and focus on character development with slightly less wonk wonk nudge nudge this'll be useful later on the midterm, class.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 04:53

Saradiart: Dec 13, 2009; OPENING MY TAI CHI IS ABOUT AS APPEALING AS THE GOATMAN OPENING HIS ANUS

Starmaker posted:

Really? Having a complex plot is treating your readers like assholes?

You can have a complex plot without ridiculous cliffhangers.

For example, instead of having notVriska walk up and Jake suddenly wake up at that exact moment to leave the reader wondering about the intentions... you could just have her go "Oh hi, I'm blahblahblah."

I mean, that conversation is eventually coming.

I think it also shows up in the drummed up mystery of the identity of characters. Why can't we see what UU looks like? What critical revelation is a character's appearance really going to have on the story?

I don't get the "shadowy man" cliche that so many works of fiction seem to love as a cliffhanger device.

It worked in Act 5.1 when we saw a glimpse of Equius and Vriska before turning away to other characters. We had a logical reason to avoid them (Equius is creepy; Vriska is a jerk). Here it's just drama for the sake of drama.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 04:59

king of no pants: Mar 10, 2007; i'm watchin'
you post

Roxy is a meddling meddler. Also Jane's expression is delightful.

edit: The gently caress is the robot up to?

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:07

MODS CURE JOKES: Nov 11, 2009; OFFICIAL SAS 90s REMEMBERER

The face. It's perfect. I eagerly await to see it used again and again and again in increasingly hilarious situations.

king of no pants posted:

Roxy is a meddling meddler. Also Jane's expression is delightful.

edit: The gently caress is the robot up to?

Pulling uranium out of it's chest cavity, in all likelihood.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:08

An Actual Princess: Dec 23, 2006

Saradiart posted:

I think it also shows up in the drummed up mystery of the identity of characters. Why can't we see what UU looks like? What critical revelation is a character's appearance really going to have on the story?

This is a horrible example, as UU's identity may very well be a matter of extreme eventual importance, so showing who she is right away would ruin any sort of tension or surprise about related things.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:08

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

Pastrymancy posted:

I dunno, by this time in Act 5 I was liking the trolls a lot more and I can't say the same for three out of four kids introduced this time around. It's not that I don't get or don't like Homestuck but I just would like the plot to slow down, and focus on character development with slightly less wonk wonk nudge nudge this'll be useful later on the midterm, class.

I'll give credit where credit is due - Hussie knocked it out of the park with Roxy.

e: ahaha jesus christ yeah okay jane's great now too. everything owns.

paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Feb 21, 2012

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:09

FewtureMD: Dec 19, 2010; I am very powerful, of course.

Smooth move, Jane :rolleyes:

Also, hooray for irons in the fire! I missed that phrase.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:10

Wrist Watch: Apr 19, 2011; What?

Suddenly, I remember why I liked Jane again.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:10

jvempire: May 10, 2009

Saradiart posted:

You can have a complex plot without ridiculous cliffhangers.

For example, instead of having notVriska walk up and Jake suddenly wake up at that exact moment to leave the reader wondering about the intentions... you could just have her go "Oh hi, I'm blahblahblah."

I mean, that conversation is eventually coming.

I think it also shows up in the drummed up mystery of the identity of characters. Why can't we see what UU looks like? What critical revelation is a character's appearance really going to have on the story?

I don't get the "shadowy man" cliche that so many works of fiction seem to love as a cliffhanger device.

It worked in Act 5.1 when we saw a glimpse of Equius and Vriska before turning away to other characters. We had a logical reason to avoid them (Equius is creepy; Vriska is a jerk). Here it's just drama for the sake of drama.

They are only really cliffhangers in the sense that we can't see the next update. Homestuck flows better when you can read it without the "waiting for next update" interruption. The downside (or maybe upside from the way you look at it) with reading HS update to update is that you are stuck with over-analyzing each page to search for clues/figure out what will happen next.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:12

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

Pastrymancy posted:

It's not so much complexity as it is kind of convoluted. I feel like I get really impatient every time an update happens because it just seems like it introduces new plot twists, character types, and whatnot at a rapid-fire pace. Writing a story well isn't just about how much stuff you pile onto it, but rather how all the events/characters are organized.

I dunno, by this time in Act 5 I was liking the trolls a lot more and I can't say the same for three out of four kids introduced this time around. It's not that I don't get or don't like Homestuck but I just would like the plot to slow down, and focus on character development with slightly less wonk wonk nudge nudge this'll be useful later on the midterm, class.

This is pretty much the case for me, too. I don't give a poo poo about what happens to these kids at all. They're dead space. They're filler personified. I've already gotten invested in the universe-spanning Problems of sixteen characters, I can't take another ride on the shipapalooza merry-go-round at this point. I'm only stoked about updates now if they're intermissions or Roxy chatlogs.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:14

QueerPope: May 1, 2010; Meow.

What a great update!

e:

QueerPope fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Feb 21, 2012

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:18

Color Printer: May 9, 2011; You get used to it. I don't
even see the code. All I see
is Ipecac, Scapular, Polyphemus...

QueerPope posted:

What a great update!

Curses, I was trying to smoothly resize it and you beat me to it! :argh:

But yeah, that face is priceless. Hussie's been really great with hilarious expressive faces lately.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:21

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

Hell almighty Crocker get your head in the game, you're killin me here.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:22

Ayana: Jun 29, 2010; Hee-Ho!

quote:

GT: There are a fuckload of irons in the fire jane!
GT: So many irons in the fire. Such a tangled web. It is a web full of flaming irons.

Oh Jake, you and your wonderful mixed metaphors. And this is hilarious, how does Hussie solve the messy Everyone-Loves-Jake situation? Have him fall for not-Vriska.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:22

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,

Nice to see Jane doing some characterful stuff, was getting kind of bored with her John rehash act. That face conveys a whole hell of a lot for something drawn in a half-sprite-ish pixelated manner, but that's nothing new for Homestuck.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:23

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

Saradiart posted:

For example, instead of having notVriska walk up and Jake suddenly wake up at that exact moment to leave the reader wondering about the intentions... you could just have her go "Oh hi, I'm blahblahblah."

It's not that I really disagree with you all that much on some of the other points, but that would be kind of dull wouldn't it? Literally just introduce a new character out of thin air, explain who they are and lay all importance they may have for the plot out in the open? I get that you guys are impatient and want things revealed faster, but instead of that you probably should have just said "he shouldn't have introduced her at all in the first place."

I guess, ultimately, I don't feel there are that many new mysteries being introduced here. Vriska 2.0 and UU, I guess? Everything else has been for developing the new characters. I also think it's extremely premature to assume they are "filler" before we actually see what their roles will be in this story by the end. And besides! Their relationship to the B1 kits alone is worth the price of admission, when all is said and done. That meet-up will be amazing.

E: P.S., warming up to Jane now.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:24

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

Oxxidation posted:

This is pretty much the case for me, too. I don't give a poo poo about what happens to these kids at all. They're dead space. They're filler personified. I've already gotten invested in the universe-spanning Problems of sixteen characters, I can't take another ride on the shipapalooza merry-go-round at this point. I'm only stoked about updates now if they're intermissions or Roxy chatlogs.

Good thing shipping these characters seems to consist about 50% of the pesterlogs right now.

# ? Feb 21, 2012 05:25