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Brett824 posted:What? How is half that list getting a full combo off a self-OTG at mid to full screen? Deadpool doesn't even get effective combos off a self OTG based on any positioning. It's a good assist, but not good enough to bump him above 8 extra characters in terms of usefulness on anyone's tier list and I think there's a reason why you don't see a lot of Strider anymore and even Floe is considering dropping him (and/or Nemesis). The only ones who I'm not 100% certain can't get a full combo off the assist is Skrull and Firebrands. Everyone else he listed can do it, and very consistently.
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Feb 20, 2012 01:27
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If there were online tiers, Strider would definitely be near the top with teleports and wall clinging and LAG! I hate lag! 
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Feb 20, 2012 01:50
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Iron Fist, dude, I loving love you but you're sooo loving bad.
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Feb 20, 2012 15:57
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Strider assist is godlike for Nova (and most other chars), and Jill anchor owns more than people think.
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Feb 21, 2012 00:08
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Brosnan posted:Strider assist is godlike for Nova (and most other chars), and Jill anchor owns more than people think. How are you getting in with assist-less Jill? And how are you doing damage without an OTG?
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Feb 21, 2012 00:17
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Brosnan posted:Strider assist is godlike for Nova (and most other chars), and Jill anchor owns more than people think. What would a B character be for a Nova/____/Strider team anyway? Frank to cover his more unsafe approaches? Doom for Plasma Beam (even though using Doom as anything but an anchor just feels wrong to me)?
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Feb 21, 2012 00:19
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Doom. The answer is Doom because it gives Nova a real neutral game (that is, "press doom assist") and doom/strider is a pretty dope combination too.
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Feb 21, 2012 00:45
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Hyun. posted:How are you getting in with assist-less Jill? And how are you doing damage without an OTG? Opponent does something stupid because you're Jill -> guns super XFC kill character, mixup incoming character -> kill character, etc. She can kill average characters in one combo with XF3, you don't need an OTG. 404GoonNotFound posted:What would a B character be for a Nova/____/Strider team anyway? Frank to cover his more unsafe approaches? Doom for Plasma Beam (even though using Doom as anything but an anchor just feels wrong to me)? Who says Strider has to be anchor? You get a full combo basically any time Vajra hits if you're Nova, and Strider is a killer battery if you need him to be. I usually have tons of meter by the time I get to Jill, or if I'm sitting on 5 I can just combo into Ragnarok or use Ouroboros.
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Feb 21, 2012 00:50
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Brosnan posted:Who says Strider has to be anchor? Is XF3 Ouroboros not the New poo poo anymore?
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Feb 21, 2012 00:52
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404GoonNotFound posted:Is XF3 Ouroboros not the New poo poo anymore? He can get lamed out of XF3 Ouroboros surprisingly easily by flight-capable characters and chipping someone to death for three meters and X-Factor isn't as good as just killing one to three characters at a time with X-Factor or being able to consistently chip people to near death with one meter, no X-Factor and the ability to gain meters while doing your thing. Viper needs to be built around enough, and is technically challenging enough that unless you're considering the "perfect machine play" aspect of tiers or are saying everyone's going to play Team MarlinPie (and be MarlinPie), Viper should probably be a tier lower. What does she bring as an assist, and how does she keep people opened up/do really dirty poo poo without Ammy or a beam behind her? And what puts Storm above Skrull or Ammy outside of runaway/being Magneto but worse?
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Feb 21, 2012 01:07
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MadRhetoric posted:And what puts Storm above Skrull or Ammy outside of runaway/being Magneto but worse? What makes any character good outside of the main reason they are good? If you are going to exclude the tri-dash mixup and the float stuff the only thing she really has are her supers, Hailstorm is the best team hyper super in the game pretty much and the DP one is a instant full screen (well, on ground or near ground) punish.
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Feb 21, 2012 01:28
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404GoonNotFound posted:Is XF3 Ouroboros not the New poo poo anymore? It never was. MadRhetoric posted:He can get lamed out of XF3 Ouroboros surprisingly easily by flight-capable characters No he can't because his teleports track opponents. If you're not constantly teleporting around like a nutcase with Strider then you're not doing it right. quote:and chipping someone to death for three meters and X-Factor isn't as good as just killing one to three characters at a time with X-Factor or being able to consistently chip people to near death with one meter, no X-Factor and the ability to gain meters while doing your thing. Strider's biggest strength is the sheer number of options he has for opening people up. He is intentionally designed to be a low damage character who makes up for it in reset/mixup potential. A good player will take advantage of as many of those as possible based on the current matchup.
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Feb 21, 2012 02:23
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I haven't tested it yet, and I also haven't braved the SRK Zero forums either, but is it possible to do a lightning loop off of what would have been a DHC glitch setup in vanilla, or does hitstun kill it? It sort of looks like if your lightning loop is tight enough you can be really really far into a combo and have it not drop, but like I said I haven't tested it. If that works, that + the whole alpha counter into sougenmu thing Zero can also do would make Zero a terror in the second slot. e: If that works, right now I'm thinking Magneto/Zero/<assist that helps Zero set up the lightning loop> would be the Theoretically Most Broken Team. Then all I'd have to do is learn all 3 of those characters  The Rokstar fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Feb 21, 2012 |
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Feb 21, 2012 04:42
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404GoonNotFound posted:What would a B character be for a Nova/____/Strider team anyway? Frank to cover his more unsafe approaches? Doom for Plasma Beam (even though using Doom as anything but an anchor just feels wrong to me)? Spencer. Why would you even ask?
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Feb 21, 2012 04:59
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404GoonNotFound posted:What would a B character be for a Nova/____/Strider team anyway? Frank to cover his more unsafe approaches? Doom for Plasma Beam (even though using Doom as anything but an anchor just feels wrong to me)?
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Feb 21, 2012 05:15
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Everyone is better with drones. What is Sentinel's best answer to people who are below him? I often try to hit people with the frying pan but it just doesn't work. They'll be behind me causing it to miss, they'll throw me out of it, or it'll miss because I used it too early. j.H is ok if they're in front of Sent but they usually aren't. I suppose I should be flying more.
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Feb 21, 2012 16:34
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Dren posted:Everyone is better with drones. Double jump so that they aren't below you anymore. j.C and flying C are your best moves for landing on people with.
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Feb 21, 2012 16:52
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Jmcrofts posted:Double jump so that they aren't below you anymore. j.C and flying C are your best moves for landing on people with. Thanks. My biggest problem with Sent is that he doesn't have an attack that controls the dive kick angle. I am so used to Wolverine that once I get in the air I just want to dive kick. Instead I end up trying to fall on people with the frying pan which does not work. I saw the tier list on the last page and I can't help but wonder if tiers make sense in this game. I'd prefer an apples to apples comparison of who does what well to a tier list. Characters would need to be characterized on point and as assists. For point, divide the screen into quadrants (as suggested by Viscant) and figure out who can attack which quadrants effectively. How fast can they attack that quadrant? Does the attack have good priority? Can they combo out of it? Do they need an assist to attack safely? Tiering is incredibly complicated and doing so without thorough analysis is very hard. A casual argument for the strength of a character can be made for almost any character. Unfortunately, the only people who have the tools to do analysis of the game work at Capcom and have the debug builds.
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Feb 21, 2012 17:48
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Dren posted:I saw the tier list on the last page and I can't help but wonder if tiers make sense in this game. I'd prefer an apples to apples comparison of who does what well to a tier list. Characters would need to be characterized on point and as assists. For point, divide the screen into quadrants (as suggested by Viscant) and figure out who can attack which quadrants effectively. How fast can they attack that quadrant? Does the attack have good priority? Can they combo out of it? Do they need an assist to attack safely? I actually tried making a point/assist tier list.  It's kind of a clusterfuck (and it's still based on my own terrible opinions), but it definitely gives a more nuanced view of how characters in this game actually stack up.
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Feb 21, 2012 18:29
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Dren posted:Thanks. My biggest problem with Sent is that he doesn't have an attack that controls the dive kick angle. I am so used to Wolverine that once I get in the air I just want to dive kick. Instead I end up trying to fall on people with the frying pan which does not work. There are way more factors than just Strong/Weak Point and Strong/Weak Assist, although those are 2 very good bases. Strong/Weak Anchor is another consideration off the top of my head. The thing about tiers in Marvel games is that you don't play a character, you play a team, and your team if essentially your character. Also your "character" changes over the course of the match due to tags, DHCs, and characters getting KO'd. Since there are literally 80,000+ combinations of teams (if you take all the assists into consideration) you're never going to get a definitive tier list that most people agree on. Having said that, it's extremely fun to make tier lists just for the discussion and thought processes it brings up.
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Feb 21, 2012 19:05
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There are actually just over 3 million possible compisitions (50*49*48*3*3*3), not all of those are viable of course but that's a pretty blurred line to try and draw.
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Feb 21, 2012 20:05
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Okay, so I think I'm going to play in the St. Valentine's Massacre on Saturday but I haven't had time to practice so I need a lazy team. Right now I'm thinking Doom missiles/Sent/Wesker since I'm passable with Doom. Any other suggestions?
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Feb 21, 2012 20:13
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The Rokstar posted:Okay, so I think I'm going to play in the St. Valentine's Massacre on Saturday but I haven't had time to practice so I need a lazy team. Right now I'm thinking Doom missiles/Sent/Wesker since I'm passable with Doom. Any other suggestions? Good team. Two of the best characters in the game in appropriate spots and Sent + Drones is never bad.
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Feb 21, 2012 20:55
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I really like the idea of the quadrant tier list that qualifies both value as a point AND assist. But why in the world are Ryu and Chris even close Akuma's value as assists, and why are Deadpool and Nemesis so low?
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Feb 21, 2012 22:45
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Shiki Dan posted:I really like the idea of the quadrant tier list that qualifies both value as a point AND assist. Chris's SMG gunfire is pretty drat good. Holds people in place instead a knock-down so it's easy to combo with. Comes out fast, and has good recovery, and decent chip. It's not flashy, but I see a lot of people using Chris now, just because of gunfire. Combine that with his easy combos, high chip, and high damage, and he's a better anchor than Iron Man.
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Feb 21, 2012 23:00
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Gunfire isn't bad, but is it really even close to the same level as Akuma Tatsu? In other words, an assist so good that top players literally build their team around it?
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Feb 21, 2012 23:36
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Shiki Dan posted:Gunfire isn't bad, but is it really even close to the same level as Akuma Tatsu? Pre-patch Phoenix Wright assist, also gold Hsien-Ko.
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Feb 21, 2012 23:37
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PalmTreeFun posted:Pre-patch Phoenix Wright assist, also gold Hsien-Ko. He said top players.
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Feb 22, 2012 00:10
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He was also asking about the gunfire assist.
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Feb 22, 2012 00:11
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Hey guys, I need help. My team is Magneto/Vergil/Sent. I know what all the characters do, and at my level I think this is a good team. Mind you this isn't my ideal team or anything, but I seem to be having the best (still not very good) results with it so far. 1) I need to learn to move with Magneto. I mostly have trouble getting in or opening people up with him. I can't really do the dash H thing in the air, but I can work that out myself. 2) I don't know how to punish Zero, especially when he comes down with that H. On the ground H xx f+H also seems to be really safe. If a Zero just alternates between those two options he'll probably take out a character or two before I get him. 3) I like to mash L, standing and crouching, with Magneto after a person hits with what seems like a move with longer recovery, an S or a Special Move. Sometimes, though not very often, I still get beat by another move afterwards that doesn't have armor. What the hell?
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Feb 22, 2012 00:13
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Shiki Dan posted:Gunfire isn't bad, but is it really even close to the same level as Akuma Tatsu? I haven't seen Chris get a massive amount of play at top level. There are a couple of notable players who use him (Bum and Chuck spring to mind even though they're more known for Haggar play) and I think he's a really solid character who'll probably see more use once people start to twig.
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Feb 22, 2012 00:15
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Windzero who plays in the Southtown Arcade ranbats is also worth checking out for Chris stuff (especially if you want to see a Chris on point as opposed to anchor/assist).
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Feb 22, 2012 00:19
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I wasn't paying attention when everyone decided Zero was the best. Why is he considered top? My current team is Nemesis (Launcher Slam)/ Wesker (Samurai Edge)/ Doom (Plasma Beam) Is Nemesis really as bad as people are claiming? He was really overhyped around launch but I still think he's solid, especially on point in this team. He has easy, long range unblockables with Wesker gun and j.H/Deadly Reach, really good kara-tick throw setups off of Plasma beam assist and then c.H into L. command throw, plus he and Wesker have great assists to continue each others combos. In addition, using Launcher Slam as the enemy is coming in while going for Wesker's air throw puts the opponent in a really lovely mixup situation.
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Feb 22, 2012 00:56
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Chocolate America posted:He said top players. Chris G. Did a Phoenix Wright team before the nerf and don't forget about the best Hsien-Ko player LLND
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Feb 22, 2012 00:59
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MY ANIME GF posted:I wasn't paying attention when everyone decided Zero was the best. Why is he considered top? He can kill any character in the game in one combo, his H attacks (and thus normal chains) are unpunishable, special moves can be cancelled 100% safely with buster, his attacks have super high priority and range, his hitbox is smaller than average, he has a billion 50/50 mixups that are just plain guessing, he has a strong projectile game, all of his supers are good and he can combo off any throw. The only things that Zero doesn't have are an amazing assist (but he's point anyway) and easy execution.
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Feb 22, 2012 01:15
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MY ANIME GF posted:I wasn't paying attention when everyone decided Zero was the best. Why is he considered top? Also don't forget you can do a almost inescapable reset and wesker's OTG with Nemesis's M. Command Grab. Just to a basic combo, and use wesker's OTG assist, if hits, do a F.H with Nemesis, and then do the M. Command Grab for a reset, and just remember to time it correctly also. Also Zero is S tier character because he can kill off a character by just hitting you, air throwing you or touching one in one way or more. Everything he does is safe because of the buster cancel, and also had alot of other BS too like it cannot touch him because of his hitbox, cannot x-factor blockstun because his F.h AND B.h Are multi-hitting also buster canceling also.
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Feb 22, 2012 01:16
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Haven't played this game in a few months... and now something is driving me nuts. Did they take out Spencer's air QCF+S otg? Try as I might, it won't come out, and it's not even showing up on my command list.
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Feb 22, 2012 01:24
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Gammatron 64 posted:Haven't played this game in a few months... and now something is driving me nuts. Did they take out Spencer's air QCF+S otg? Try as I might, it won't come out, and it's not even showing up on my command list. Its still in, you might be doing it a bit too early. I try and wait till I see Spencers feet.
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Feb 22, 2012 01:32
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Ryven posted:Its still in, you might be doing it a bit too early. I try and wait till I see Spencers feet. This is so goddamn weird. Still not doing it, even outside combos. I DID just install a new hard drive, and just downloaded an update, maybe it isn't updated all the way? I'm gonna try rebooting my xbox.
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Feb 22, 2012 01:43
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Gammatron 64 posted:This is so goddamn weird. Still not doing it, even outside combos. I DID just install a new hard drive, and just downloaded an update, maybe it isn't updated all the way? I'm gonna try rebooting my xbox. Assuming your gamer tag is the same as your username here, Xbox Live is showing that you're playing vanilla and not ultimate.
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Feb 22, 2012 01:52
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