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Lord Twisted posted:My players use a modified Rod of Wonder with approximately 600 permutations, spreasd over 6 tables (roll d100 to get table, then d100 on that table). The highest table, "Apocalypse table" has 6 results, the highest being a wish. One of my players has rolled this 2 sessions ago and wished to become a god; he became the god of paving slabs. Is the 4e Wish more powerful than a 3.5 Wish? I keep hearing about all these game-breaking things people are doing with Wish, and DMs asking how to handle it, when as far as I know that kind of thing is only allowed at the DM's discretion (and discouraged even then): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm
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Feb 18, 2012 20:25
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e: Weird, I tried to edit the above post and ended up with a double here.
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Feb 18, 2012 20:25
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:Is the 4e Wish more powerful than a 3.5 Wish? I keep hearing about all these game-breaking things people are doing with Wish, and DMs asking how to handle it, when as far as I know that kind of thing is only allowed at the DM's discretion (and discouraged even then): I made it an "unlimited wish" as it was over a 1/600 chance of them getting it. I didn't expect them to ever get it. Twice. They only used the drat Rod about 6 times
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Feb 18, 2012 21:41
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some loving LIAR posted:This is the funny part: The room they're in right now contains two additional goblins(Druid 2 and Rogue 3), hanging around enjoying the benefits of their obscene Stealth ranks, that I had originally intended to sic on the PCs as part of the final battle. I relented, because the PCs have no cleric and as newbies aren't the best at strategy, so they're pretty ragged. Hmm, don't know about that whole online part of it, but if your players are asking for another fight, but you feel like they're too inexperienced to handle the one you planned, just replace the two goblins with something your sure they can handle, and don't even mention the two sneaky goblins you originally planned. I understand that a dangerous encounter adds tension to the game, but if your just trying to introduce them to the system, a little mercy couldn't hurt the first few times, especially if you think the alternative is going to ruin the game.
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Feb 18, 2012 23:01
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Unless they published one lately there's no such thing as a 4E Wish that isn't 100% the DM's call. If they did publish an official one lately I'd very much like to see it, I can't think of any way the concept would remotely fit in the existing design paradigms (except, well, a statblock saying "100% the DM's call").
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Feb 18, 2012 23:14
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Lord Twisted posted:I made it an "unlimited wish" as it was over a 1/600 chance of them getting it. Call me a bitch but I would not allow players to say "We all want to be level 30" without teleporting them to the top of a 30 levels high tower or the thirtieth level of hell.
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Feb 19, 2012 09:58
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Affi posted:Call me a bitch but I would not allow players to say "We all want to be level 30" without teleporting them to the top of a 30 levels high tower or the thirtieth level of hell. I probably wouldn't either, but more because the characters aren't really supposed to know about "levels" and such, they grow more powerful as they use their abilities and learn more powerful ones as they do so. I would've accepted something more like "We wish to become more powerful!" and given them a levels boost appropriate to their level.
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Feb 19, 2012 13:28
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Robzor McFabulous posted:I probably wouldn't either, but more because the characters aren't really supposed to know about "levels" and such, they grow more powerful as they use their abilities and learn more powerful ones as they do so. I would've accepted something more like "We wish to become more powerful!" and given them a levels boost appropriate to their level. Exactly, in a world where the concept of "level 30" isn't actually real then a wish for "level 30" should result in something hilarious.
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Feb 19, 2012 14:35
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You could have also made them Level 30 peasants 
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Feb 19, 2012 16:53
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They suddenly find they have swapped bodies with the level 30 big-bad and his cronies.
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Feb 19, 2012 20:38
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P.S. STILL COMPLETELY DEVOID OF MERIT
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Straight from the spell description:quote:You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.) While the 3.5 DMG had a passage about stuff you should just let a character get away with when using a Wish it does outline that players are going to try something really big that breaks the game. Like everyone else is saying "level" and "experience points" are there just so the rules make sense. Your Sorcerer may call his Fireball "Sunflare" because he made it up instead of reading a manual. Your Paladin doesn't think he's using a +3 Longsword, he's wielding Mirrodil, Blade of the Savior. Dropping them in the 30th sub-basement in a Dwarven labyrinth may be fitting.
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Feb 19, 2012 23:13
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Alas I am the kind of DM to do this, but they had a little 5 minute huddle and came up with essentially DnD legalese, saying they wanted to be "as powerful as they could possibly be while retaining their current existence" or something along those lines. Regardless, I get to play a level 30 campaign now. Main badguy has decided to change his plans and use the soul energy he has been building up from harvesting captured Lawful Good individuals. He's going to channel it into himself and become a demi-god of lightning (storm mage before). Thinking of just going flatout and making a level 30 Stormsoul Genasi Storm Sorceror and tripling it's HP or something to make it an absolute motherfucker to kill.
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Feb 19, 2012 23:57
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Razorwired posted:Straight from the spell description:
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Feb 20, 2012 10:03
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Lord Twisted posted:Alas I am the kind of DM to do this, but they had a little 5 minute huddle and came up with essentially DnD legalese, saying they wanted to be "as powerful as they could possibly be while retaining their current existence" or something along those lines. Regardless, I get to play a level 30 campaign now. Funny solution; "As powerful as we can possibly be while retaining our current existence" is pretty much well rested, fed and full of energy. Give them a +2 bonus to everything for a few days.
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Feb 20, 2012 10:14
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My Lovely Horse posted:It's kind of both sad and telling that the usual understanding of Wish among many players seems to be "you can ask for whatever you want, but what you get will be a twisted interpretation of your wish." Its because most players wish for stupid poo poo, I mean I would too ofcourse, but I would expect and want the twisted interpretation. "I want a billion gold pieces!" Might result in gold raining from the sky over a large area of land sparking a great war as nations fight over this new blessed land! "I want power!" Might result in a lightening bolt hitting you. "I want to go up a level!" Might teleport your character forty feet up in the air. "Kill him!/Kill all our enemies!" Might result in the Emperor Kim-Him/Empress Allaur Namisis of the nation of Farawayjapan being struck down and the heir seeking revenge on the party. Basically use it as a plothook.
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Feb 20, 2012 10:20
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Yeah, Wishes should be used to either solve specific woes "remove the great ancestral curse of the royal line", "grant life back to the Elven heartwood tree" or whatever or be a hilarious power-grab that goes horribly wrong and directs the plot for a bit.
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Feb 20, 2012 10:25
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Affi posted:
That is absolutely brilliant. I can dig out the legalese document they wrote if people are interested. I was just willing to level them up to 30 as they're 2 sessions away from concluding this 20 session campaign anyway and it gave it a touch of the epic!
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Feb 20, 2012 14:26
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Karandras posted:Yeah, Wishes should be used to either solve specific woes "remove the great ancestral curse of the royal line", "grant life back to the Elven heartwood tree" or whatever or be a hilarious power-grab that goes horribly wrong and directs the plot for a bit. What about wishes that go horribly right? What happens when a player is clearly familiar with the old "unselfish wish" story and their Lawful Good, tired-of-the-grind fighter's Wish is "without changing myself, without making changes to anybody else that I would be uncomfortable with, and without changing the number of beings in the world, make me the least happy, least healthy, least selfless, least compassionate, least tolerant, least loving and most violent sentient being on the planet?" (The answer: a couple sessions of near-utopia with an increasingly uncomfortable fighter being hailed as the literal Savior of the World and the party being asked to carry messages of apology, messages of forgiveness, freed prisoners and reparation between nations. Then the Far Realm invades.)
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Feb 20, 2012 14:50
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tzirean posted:What about wishes that go horribly right? What happens when a player is clearly familiar with the old "unselfish wish" story and their Lawful Good, tired-of-the-grind fighter's Wish is "without changing myself, without making changes to anybody else that I would be uncomfortable with, and without changing the number of beings in the world, make me the least happy, least healthy, least selfless, least compassionate, least tolerant, least loving and most violent sentient being on the planet?" That's actually pretty much the ending of my last IRL Exalted game.
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Feb 20, 2012 22:49
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tzirean posted:What about wishes that go horribly right? What happens when a player is clearly familiar with the old "unselfish wish" story and their Lawful Good, tired-of-the-grind fighter's Wish is "without changing myself, without making changes to anybody else that I would be uncomfortable with, and without changing the number of beings in the world, make me the least happy, least healthy, least selfless, least compassionate, least tolerant, least loving and most violent sentient being on the planet?" Every sentient on the planet is transformed into a puppy.
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Feb 20, 2012 23:22
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That was the plot of a great episode of Reboot.
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Feb 20, 2012 23:26
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Doc Hawkins posted:That was the plot of a great episode of Reboot. It's literally not possible to go wrong by stealing from Reboot, especially if it involves the hero and the BBEG having a guitar duel for a kid's birthday.
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Feb 20, 2012 23:31
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tzirean posted:What about wishes that go horribly right? What happens when a player is clearly familiar with the old "unselfish wish" story and their Lawful Good, tired-of-the-grind fighter's Wish is "without changing myself, without making changes to anybody else that I would be uncomfortable with, and without changing the number of beings in the world, make me the least happy, least healthy, least selfless, least compassionate, least tolerant, least loving and most violent sentient being on the planet?" How comfortable is the fighter with mind control, really? Alternately, transport him/everyone else to another planet, identical in all ways save the fighter being alone. Alternately, have whatever sources the wish show up and explain in simple terms that wishes are not all end all be all insta-grants of your deepest desires, and if that's what he really wants the wish can supply him with some tools to do the job but all the footwork will be on him.
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Feb 21, 2012 02:35
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:That's actually pretty much the ending of my last IRL Exalted game. It was the beginning of my first Nobilis game too. To hammer home that there is no good or evil in the setting our GM sent us through a Chancel that was a very close reconstruction of every character's alignment. The Hell Chancel was great craftsman inventing brilliant machines with the sole purpose of hurting each other in contrived ways. The Light area was fat sightless blogs that were once human being endlessly smothered by an overbearing mother figure and the Wild Chancel had us on the perpetual rear end end of Freedom Day from Futurama.
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Feb 21, 2012 09:11
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I don't even see the Level 30 thing as much of a problem. They wished themselves to the end of the campaign, so give them a great last hurrah as the demigods they are, and then on to their children.. or heirs to their legacies.. or whatever, right about where they left off before.
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Feb 21, 2012 13:00
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Can anyone think of ways to kill a God (or at least god-like being; for the sake of the story he's basically an untouchable with Godlike powers) without using some lame MacGuffin? The basic idea is that all the bad poo poo that started happening was because this guy became all-powerful, got bored of it, and is now loving with people just to get someone to come kill him because he's tired of it. I'd like a more unique idea than "Hey this item that you happened to find weakens him, finish him off!" but I can't think of anything.
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Feb 21, 2012 15:22
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Reenforce that your characters are heroic on a mythic scale and then have them beat the guy to death? How did this dude become omnipotent, and can your dudes do the same thing? Instead of "Oh hey look it's offbrand kryptonite how lucky for us", have them pumping up with the divine equivalent of, like, the Hourman serum or something. Imagine enacting a ritual or brewing serum or whatever that, for only (Insert dramatic amount of time), will give you power enough to go and beat up anybody. After which, you die because mortal forms divine energies blah blah blah. If that's the end of your campaign, congrats you have a pretty cool denouement set up. If it's not, have the heroes return to normal to the amazement of all parties, because they're heroes and poo poo like warning labels on magical rituals don't apply.
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Feb 21, 2012 15:35
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Thelonious Funk posted:Can anyone think of ways to kill a God (or at least god-like being; for the sake of the story he's basically an untouchable with Godlike powers) without using some lame MacGuffin? Make them play by the rules. Rather than all-powerful gods being the result of breaking physics and what is possible - have it so they have switched to a different set of rules. It's a lame example, but think the end of Disney's Aladin. The baddy wishes to be a genie, so he becomes an all powerful - world enslaving, omniscient monster....except genies are trapped in lamps so now he is too.
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Feb 21, 2012 15:42
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Thelonious Funk posted:Can anyone think of ways to kill a God (or at least god-like being; for the sake of the story he's basically an untouchable with Godlike powers) without using some lame MacGuffin? If he's bored and/or unsatisfied with his existence, then you could pull a Planescape and have the players convince him to unmake himself. I guess the easiest way to do that would be by coming up with whatever reason he wants to die, and then seeding hints about that in the game lore prior to the battle? Maybe the players have to fight him either way, but the clever ones might have figured out that he actually wants to do, and at a dramatically opportune moment maybe the god could stop the fight and hear them out. And if they fail to convince him then the fight resumes? You could also, and this might sound weird, put the players in a support role. Maybe this dude really is too powerful for them, so they've gotta go out and assemble a coven of magic users to work in unison to kill him, but the players have to protect these sages while the god sends his minions to interrupt the ritual? Or, and this is my favourite, you make it really really largescale. What is this guy a god of? What domain? Does he, or his followers, have any land holdings? I've always been partial to the idea that if a mage is going to scrawl some protective runes in chalk above the door to his house, then might not a god do the same thing using rivers or mountain ranges? Maybe the key to killing him is to unmake the god's work in the world, and undo him in the process.
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Feb 21, 2012 15:47
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Kill every one of his believers and erase his name from any documents or lore or libraries and smash any artifacts he's given out. Basically the evil way to defeat a god. You could also do this and then force a fight against a much lessened god.
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Feb 21, 2012 16:14
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Thelonious Funk posted:I'd like a more unique idea than "Hey this item that you happened to find weakens him, finish him off!" but I can't think of anything. If the world's powered off belief, make the characters have to invent the legend of how to slay him and perform great deeds to show the 'public' that they're the ones in the prophesy they're making up on the spot so they can eventually slay the god
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Feb 21, 2012 16:18
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RicochetD20 posted:If the world's powered off belief, make the characters have to invent the legend of how to slay him and perform great deeds to show the 'public' that they're the ones in the prophesy they're making up on the spot so they can eventually slay the god This would be phenomenally loving awesome. A gigantic goddamn hoax perpetrated on the universe itself is a suitably epic way to end a campaign.
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Feb 21, 2012 20:43
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I've seen some things posted about this before but can't find any now. Are there any bad rear end android (kindle fire) or iphone apps for D&D that are must haves? My laptop sucks but is presentable and I like using things like Masterplan, is there anything awesome to bring on either app platform to the game as a player or dm?
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Feb 22, 2012 04:32
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Astfgl posted:If he's bored and/or unsatisfied with his existence, then you could pull a Planescape and have the players convince him to unmake himself. I guess the easiest way to do that would be by coming up with whatever reason he wants to die, and then seeding hints about that in the game lore prior to the battle? Maybe the players have to fight him either way, but the clever ones might have figured out that he actually wants to do, and at a dramatically opportune moment maybe the god could stop the fight and hear them out. And if they fail to convince him then the fight resumes? Hell, if you want a solution that's a little more fighty and drawn-out, you could do a thing where the PCs literally go bodily inside the god's mind by some magical means -- maybe the god even lets them in there himself, because he wants them to understand why he wants to gently caress up the world so badly -- and fight/persuade/outwit personifications of various aspects of his personality and memories, with the end goal of making him either die or learn to accept and enjoy his existence. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Feb 22, 2012 |
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Feb 22, 2012 10:31
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Depending on how the god elevating to godhood you could also go and slay his priests and destroy the evidence and artifacts that are the basis of his power and then fight him straight on.
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Feb 22, 2012 10:48
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Depends on what kind of god is he. If he is a cult god have them go out on a war campaign/crusade to kill all his worshippers, effectively erasing his godlike powers. Otherwise rip off the Wizard of Oz. A man behind the curtain pretends to be god and has enough influence in the people (or enough macguffins of his own) to emulate the acts of a god.
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Feb 22, 2012 14:33
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For my Dark Sun game I am thinking of doing something with multiple gangs warring over control of the slums, and the PCs need to end it one way or another. Anyone got any tips from doing something similar? Or links to a similar adventure.
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Feb 23, 2012 19:36
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Rugpisser posted:For my Dark Sun game I am thinking of doing something with multiple gangs warring over control of the slums, and the PCs need to end it one way or another. Anyone got any tips from doing something similar? Or links to a similar adventure. I can't speak to an adventure, but as for tips, I'd recommend reading Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and stealing everything you can reasonably adapt.
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Feb 23, 2012 20:14
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I'd advise against ripping off Red Harvest. Yojimbo, Last Man Standing, the Star Wars Old Republic graphic novel Blue Harvest (geddit?), and probably two westerns a year since 1950 are a ripoff of Red Harvest. Point being, Red Harvest is now, whether they've read it or not, going to be exactly what everybody expects out of a "pacify the warring gangs" scenario. Instead, read it and do the opposite of that. It will really gently caress with people's poo poo. Plus the PCs would have to be Continental Op-level psychopaths to really pull off the RH scenario the RH way.
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Feb 23, 2012 20:40
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Well the PCs are currently nearing the end of a dungeon, so I was looking to do something more open ended. Currently for each gang i am planning to have: Stat blocks for Leader, 2nd in command, street level leader, members(minions). Along with maps for each gangs HQ of sorts.
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Feb 23, 2012 21:02
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