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swmmrmanshen posted:This is true, however many BJJ bro's (I'm using 'bro's' as a derogatory term here) claim otherwise. Also, numerous advertisements for BJJ schools also make similar claims about self defense. Understandable seeing as those were claims made by the Gracie family for 50 years. Also in Rio de Janeiro you had these 'gangs' of middle and upper-class boys (including a couple of Gracie kids) who had nothing better to do with their time other than train BJJ and go out at night and look for brawls. This still happens a lot, by the way. Nowadays they're less obviously connected to BJJ, though.
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Feb 27, 2012 20:15
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BJJ has given me the life skills in case I ever need to pull guard in a townie bar and choke a bro with his own popped collars.
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Feb 27, 2012 20:18
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origami posted:BJJ has given me the life skills in case I ever need to pull guard in a townie bar and choke a bro with his own popped collars. I don't know if you want to attract the murder of shiv wielding and soccer kicking chavs a guard pull would produce
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Feb 27, 2012 20:32
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Bohemian Nights posted:I don't know if you want to attract the murder of shiv wielding and soccer kicking chavs a guard pull would produce [video type="youtube"]/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ohpqJAx_0pY[/video] niethan fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Feb 27, 2012 |
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Feb 27, 2012 20:46
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Mr Interweb posted:Having said that, I should have simply asked this question earlier on in the thread: Can someone here just recommend me a good place in Los Angeles (specifically the San Fernando Valley area)? One that teaches mostly striking, but if possible with some grappling? I dunno about SFV but my judo dojo is just off the 101 in Hollywood and is $30/mo. If you want, I'll ask the senseis tonight if they know any good judo dojos in your area.
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Feb 27, 2012 21:06
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Pellisworth posted:I dunno about SFV but my judo dojo is just off the 101 in Hollywood and is $30/mo. If you want, I'll ask the senseis tonight if they know any good judo dojos in your area. Wow, $30? Hollywood's not that far thanks to the Redline, so it wouldn't be much of a trek. Granted, I was looking for a martial art that teaches striking primarily, but poo poo, for $30/mo you can't go wrong!
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Feb 27, 2012 21:20
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Mr Interweb posted:Wow, $30? Hollywood's not that far thanks to the Redline, so it wouldn't be much of a trek. I really like the vibe of the place, and we just got a BOATLOAD of new beginners (myself included). Granted, the attrition rate is pretty high, but if you joined you'd definitely have peers. You should swing by and check it out sometime if you're interested, practices are every Mon and Thurs night 7:30-9:30pm http://www.hollywoodjudo.com/ If you wanted to do striking you could always add in a second martial art that focuses more on striking. Since you mention the Redline, it's actually within walking distance of the Vermont/Beverly station. Maybe a 10min, half-mile walk. It's just across the 101 freeway and one block east of Vermont Ave. http://g.co/maps/htyqt Edit: Is there a reason you want more of a striking art than grappling? I skimmed your earlier posts in this thread and it sounds like you're mostly interested in self-defense? As far as I know (and I don't know much!), judo is pretty good for that, and you can certainly tell the senseis that's what your goal is and they'll give you advice. Our dojo seems to do about 2/3 standing work and 1/3 groundwork, which sounds like a slightly heavier focus on groundwork than many judo dojos (and a good thing for practical self-defense). Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Feb 27, 2012 |
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Feb 27, 2012 21:28
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Pellisworth posted:I really like the vibe of the place, and we just got a BOATLOAD of new beginners (myself included). Granted, the attrition rate is pretty high, but if you joined you'd definitely have peers. You should swing by and check it out sometime if you're interested, practices are every Mon and Thurs night 7:30-9:30pm Sweet, thanks for the info.  quote:Edit: Is there a reason you want more of a striking art than grappling? I skimmed your earlier posts in this thread and it sounds like you're mostly interested in self-defense? As far as I know (and I don't know much!), judo is pretty good for that, and you can certainly tell the senseis that's what your goal is and they'll give you advice. Our dojo seems to do about 2/3 standing work and 1/3 groundwork, which sounds like a slightly heavier focus on groundwork than many judo dojos (and a good thing for practical self-defense). Well, short answer is I'm a pretty skinny guy (with long arms), so I felt that a striking MA would be more appropriate for me (easier to punch someone for someone like me than throw them, I'd imagine). Mr Interweb fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 27, 2012 |
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Feb 27, 2012 21:45
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Mr Interweb posted:Well, short answer is I'm a pretty skinny guy (with long arms), so I felt that a striking MA would be more appropriate for me (easier to punch someone for someone like me than throw them, I'd imagine). I'm 6'3" and weigh 170lbs, I'm right there with you. There are appropriate judo techniques for all shapes and sizes. Your long arms are a huge asset, and I bet you have long legs too. Remember that judo is a grappling sport... watch some youtubes of matches. A LOT of the standing game is using your arms and grip to wrangle your opponent around and try to get them off balance or set up for a throw. And your long legs will be good for leg sweep throws, for example. Again, I'm a newbie, but everything I've been told is that my long limbs are an advantage in judo, both standing and ground game. And you don't need to be big and buff, either. It's all technique, there are 60yo dudes who will absolutely wreck your poo poo and 35yo fat dudes who will do the same. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Feb 27, 2012 |
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Feb 27, 2012 21:56
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Mr Interweb posted:Well, short answer is I'm a pretty skinny guy (with long arms), so I felt that a striking MA would be more appropriate for me (easier to punch someone for someone like me than throw them, I'd imagine). (it's also an option)
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Feb 27, 2012 22:06
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Pellisworth posted:I'm 6'3" and weigh 170lbs, I'm right there with you. There are appropriate judo techniques for all shapes and sizes. Your long arms are a huge asset, and I bet you have long legs too. Remember that judo is a grappling sport... watch some youtubes of matches. A LOT of the standing game is using your arms and grip to wrangle your opponent around and try to get them off balance or set up for a throw. If the technical skills are equal though you bet your rear end the stronger guy wins.
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Feb 27, 2012 22:09
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niethan posted:If the technical skills are equal though you bet your rear end the stronger guy wins. Of course, but Mr Interweb doesn't need to be built to train judo.
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Feb 27, 2012 22:13
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Illegal Username posted:Start wrasslin', get jacked. Ya you get serious about your diet and grappling and you won't be skinny no more.
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Feb 27, 2012 22:45
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swmmrmanshen posted:This is true, however many BJJ bro's (I'm using 'bro's' as a derogatory term here) claim otherwise. Also, numerous advertisements for BJJ schools also make similar claims about self defense. The Gracie Barra place I used to work out at offered "Rape Safe" seminars for women. These seminars were really just an intro class and included things like double leg takedowns. These seminars made me very angry, both for calling any kind of seminar a "Rape Safe" class and for having said seminar being not even pretend to teach any actual simple self defense stuff.
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Feb 27, 2012 23:44
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Polyrhythmic Panda posted:I've never understood that about BJJ. The style is entirely ground-based, so if you can't get your opponent on the ground in a fight, you are screwed. Why do the majority of gyms seem to spend very little (if any) time training takedowns? BJJ is a useful art for self-defense but not in an obvious way: it makes you extremely difficult to hold down. You don't want to be on the ground most of the time in a self-defense situation, and nobody will be able to stand up faster than a BJJ practitioner. Even if you're standing up, it'll be difficult to hold you still because you've developed a sixth sense for disentangling your limbs. Also, while taking down a trained martial artist can be a really difficult task, taking down somebody untrained is usually really easy, so there's that.
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Feb 28, 2012 00:10
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niethan posted:All martial arts are removed from "real fighting" to varying degrees. Do you complain about boxers not knowing how to wrestle? About wrestlers not knowing how to kick? BJJ doesn't really claim to be real world self defense. If a boxer gets swung at by someone in a bar, he can punch back. A wrestler can pick him up and drop him on his head. A BJJ guy can...sit down and butt scoot. Every martial art has weaknesses, but BJJ's weakness makes it almost useless in everything but a sporting environment. It just seems silly when it would be so easy to fix.
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Feb 28, 2012 00:11
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Polyrhythmic Panda posted:If a boxer gets swung at by someone in a bar, he can punch back. A wrestler can pick him up and drop him on his head. A BJJ guy can...sit down and butt scoot. Every martial art has weaknesses, but BJJ's weakness makes it almost useless in everything but a sporting environment. It just seems silly when it would be so easy to fix. If BJJ did more standup they would just be back to doing Judo.
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Feb 28, 2012 00:23
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Thoguh posted:If BJJ did more standup they would just be back to doing Judo. 10 minutes of drilling a takedown/throw every day wouldn't be a big deal, and it would at least give them a way to clumsily force the fight to the ground even against a bigger opponent. They don't even really have to end up on top. Hell, even Royce Gracie had his little front kick - double leg he always did. Polyrhythmic Panda fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Feb 28, 2012 |
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Feb 28, 2012 00:34
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I think you're underestimating the amount of time dedicated to takedowns. Remember that all fights in bjj competitions start standing up, and while there is a lot of guardpulling, i've seen quite a few sweet throws and takedowns as well. At MGA, they had takedowns as a part of a lot of the advanced classes, and in every class before a competition. I can't speak for other clubs, but I imagine that has to be pretty common procedure. I don't think you'll find a lot of bjj guys with no takedowns at all. They'll probably be really bad compared to a wrestler or a judoka, but atleast they're there. Also, closing the distance to hug on someone who is not a fighter really isn't hard. Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 28, 2012 |
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Feb 28, 2012 00:49
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Polyrhythmic Panda posted:If a boxer gets swung at by someone in a bar, he can punch back. A wrestler can pick him up and drop him on his head. A BJJ guy can...sit down and butt scoot. Every martial art has weaknesses, but BJJ's weakness makes it almost useless in everything but a sporting environment. It just seems silly when it would be so easy to fix. flying triangle bro coming at you like a spider monkey!
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Feb 28, 2012 01:01
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KingColliwog posted:What sort of equipment do you have access too? I'm pretty proud of my ghetto gym. My current house has a lot of old run-down garage space downstairs. The top level of the house is nice, but the bottom level looks like a lot of hookers got murdered in it. It's spacious though, so I get to do stuff like this:  The bottom picture is of my sweet "dip bars". I used to put weight plates on the chairs to hold them in place, but now that I've lost a bit of weight they aren't in any danger of falling over. I've been doing the goon-modified starting strength for awhile, and I'm going to try to transition into WS4SB sometime this year, but I'm still working out what extra equipment I'll need to get. I figure I can use a milk crate for box squats and I can probably build some plyometric boxes pretty cheaply to do box jumps. I'm still investigating that because there are a lot of exercises on it that I've never heard of before. I agree with you about SS being a bit too intense if you train through the week as well. I usually do it twice instead of thrice, and that works out okay though my gains are a bit slow.
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Feb 28, 2012 01:57
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Bohemian Nights posted:I think you're underestimating the amount of time dedicated to takedowns. Remember that all fights in bjj competitions start standing up, and while there is a lot of guardpulling, i've seen quite a few sweet throws and takedowns as well. At MGA, they had takedowns as a part of a lot of the advanced classes, and in every class before a competition. I think Marcelo's academy is sort of an exception. I've been to a lot of gyms that do no/almost no(think less than once a week, sometimes less than once a month) takedowns. Also the guard jumping race is way more exciting than fighting for takedowns.
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Feb 28, 2012 02:10
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I don't know which BJJ schools don't train takedowns actively but I think that the BJJ guys don't know takedowns thing is massively overstated. At my school, which is one of the largest BJJ schools in the U.S., we do extensive takedown work. Of course, in the whitebelt classes, takedowns are taught and students drill them but there is very limited full resistance training from the feet. A lot of the focus in white belt level is learning the fundamental of the ground game. But in our more advanced classes there is a lot of takedown work and in some of our advanced classes we roll starting from the feet every single time. In addition we have specific judo classes and wrestling classes there as well.
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Feb 28, 2012 02:51
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I guess it just depends on the gym. I've trained at a handful of different BJJ gyms, and none of them did takedown work more than once or twice a month. I've seen a couple of those guys get amateur MMA fights and get stomped because they had no standup game and couldn't get a takedown, or when they pulled guard they got punched in the face.
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Feb 28, 2012 04:04
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So we did Uchi Mata properly for the first time (last time was at a judo camp and everyone already knew it except for me) and drat its hard as gently caress for a yellow belt but I actually had tonnes of fun. Its a really sick move. I wasn't getting my hips in deep enough at first but I ended up at least moving in enough by the end, so that's about a millionth of the way there.
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Feb 28, 2012 04:18
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Nierbo posted:So we did Uchi Mata properly for the first time (last time was at a judo camp and everyone already knew it except for me) and drat its hard as gently caress for a yellow belt but I actually had tonnes of fun. Its a really sick move. I wasn't getting my hips in deep enough at first but I ended up at least moving in enough by the end, so that's about a millionth of the way there.  Uchimata is such a pretty throw.
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Feb 28, 2012 05:56
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Yeah its beautiful. I'm sorry for talking bad about it a few months ago on here. I hope to make reparations.
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Feb 28, 2012 06:32
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Pellisworth posted:I'm 6'3" and weigh 170lbs, I'm right there with you. There are appropriate judo techniques for all shapes and sizes. Your long arms are a huge asset, and I bet you have long legs too. Remember that judo is a grappling sport... watch some youtubes of matches. A LOT of the standing game is using your arms and grip to wrangle your opponent around and try to get them off balance or set up for a throw. Well that sounds awesome then. I'll try and check out this place later in the week (or sooner if possible). And just to be clear, judo's like if BJJ only focused on standing grappling, right?
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Feb 28, 2012 14:27
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Mr Interweb posted:And just to be clear, judo's like if BJJ only focused on standing grappling, right?
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Feb 28, 2012 14:38
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Illegal Username posted:Unless you ask a Judoka, who will tell you that BJJ is like judo but only on the ground. I'm of that opinion. But yeah, judo and BJJ are basically two sides of the same coin. Depending on the club you'll still get plenty of ground game in judo and plenty of stand-up in BJJ or almost none at all.
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Feb 28, 2012 14:50
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KingColliwog posted:I'm of that opinion. But yeah, judo and BJJ are basically two sides of the same coin. Depending on the club you'll still get plenty of ground game in judo and plenty of stand-up in BJJ or almost none at all. I would say that Judo's focus on standup is much less extreme than BJJ's focus on matwork. Your average Judo club is going to spend 20-40% of their time on matwork and do randori in both standup and matwork. Your average BJJ club is going to spend maybe 5% of their time on standup, and might do zero randori that starts in standup until you get to blue or purple belt.
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Feb 28, 2012 16:27
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:BJJ is a useful art for self-defense but not in an obvious way: it makes you extremely difficult to hold down. You don't want to be on the ground most of the time in a self-defense situation, and nobody will be able to stand up faster than a BJJ practitioner. Even if you're standing up, it'll be difficult to hold you still because you've developed a sixth sense for disentangling your limbs. This is what I think as well. A trained BJJ guy will be a lot more difficult to take down or hold down than someone who only does, say, boxing. In a SD-situation you'd want to make sure you are not being held down or grabbed and held in place, a grappler is more or less ready for that. Someone who can only strike will be on dire straits of he starts kicking, punching people in the head has plenty of downsides too. Now people who are really explosive and can RUN fast on the other hand...
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Feb 28, 2012 17:28
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Mr Interweb posted:And just to be clear, judo's like if BJJ only focused on standing grappling, right?
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Feb 28, 2012 17:40
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:and nobody will be able to stand up faster than a BJJ practitioner. Wrestlers are 10x better at this than anyone else, and better at not getting taken down in the first place. There should really be dedicated wrestling gyms for people who didn't do it in high school/college, because it's almost a necessity in MMA these days.
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Feb 28, 2012 18:27
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Many mma gyms offer sub wrestling classes separate from bjj or striking. Sub wrestling generally meaning learning takedowns where submissions are legal. Usually the serious guys are in both grappling classes plus whatever striking they do. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Feb 28, 2012 |
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Feb 28, 2012 21:39
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oh god, My judo is progressing so fast these days. All my foward throws are getting 10x better because I learned how to lead with the shoulder better and my uchi mata went from "poo poo that I only use to set up a Kouchi Gari" into a legitimate throw I can use to slam people hard in the mat. When you plateau you hate the "step" style progression of judo, but when some things click you gotta love it. I feel like I gained a level and put all my points in foward throws. 
KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Feb 29, 2012 |
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Feb 29, 2012 03:38
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today we move into our new gym!! huge space, needs a lot of work but it has heaps of potential and we can finally have a proper timetable of classes again instead of just 1-2 hours in the evening
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Mar 1, 2012 01:46
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So today i did my first boxing sparring session in mma. Do you get used to getting hit? Everytime i got hit hard i paniced, and thought "i dont want to do this anymore". Not that i stopped because most of it is fun. I did however learn the value of keeping my hands up, and that the best way to get someone to stop hitting you is to hit them back.
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Mar 1, 2012 03:57
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He expended too much energy and got tired
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Dangersim posted:So today i did my first boxing sparring session in mma. Do you get used to getting hit? Everytime i got hit hard i paniced, and thought "i dont want to do this anymore". Not that i stopped because most of it is fun. I did however learn the value of keeping my hands up, and that the best way to get someone to stop hitting you is to hit them back. Yeah, you do get used to it. Maybe too used to it, where you just leave your head out there to get tagged.
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Mar 1, 2012 04:00
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gimpsuitjones posted:today we move into our new gym!! huge space, needs a lot of work but it has heaps of potential and we can finally have a proper timetable of classes again instead of just 1-2 hours in the evening Are you the guy who posted the pictures of the ultra ghetto gym with roof that was about to colapse? Looked very spartan and awesome
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