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I know I've posted this before in the thread, but Use of Weapons is possibly the best book for the Culture series, my favourite still belongs to Look to Windward though.
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Feb 27, 2012 02:46
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Good decision Hedrigall because Consider Phlebas is at best kind of uneven. (Also has a great ending, though!)
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Feb 27, 2012 03:15
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Flipswitch posted:my favourite still belongs to Look to Windward though. Agreed. It's a lovely story about a great and sympathetic set of characters and gives us the best insight into the actual life of Culture peoples in the series. Plus, Masaq' Hub is my favourite character in the whole series. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Feb 27, 2012 |
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Feb 27, 2012 07:34
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Use of Weapons really is the way to go. I think it shows the role of Special Circumstances better than any other book, and it's got the perfect balance between omnipotent Culture tech and vulnerable, isolated individuals up against powerful forces. The characters are great too, Zakalwe of course, but also Sma, the Xenophobe and even the bit-parts, like Mollen the mute bodyguard. Plus, it's probably the best introduction to Banks' love of non-chronological narrative, and as people have said, when the threads come together at the end it's absolutely amazing.
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Feb 27, 2012 13:36
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I argue that Use Of Weapons is the best Culture book, but not the one you should start with. That was the first Culture book I read and I didn't fully understand what the Culture was all about (despite it being a pretty good story). While the story isn't as good, I thought Player of Games would've been the perfect book to start the Culture series with. It gives you a pretty good insight into the people of the Culture and the tech around it. syphon fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Feb 27, 2012 |
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Feb 27, 2012 20:31
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Consider phlebas is fine, it's not an amazing book but it's quick and full of action and horza is a pretty cool character.
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Feb 27, 2012 21:35
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Yeah, Consider Phlebas is a fine starting point, its just not as representative of the other books as Player of Games. Though the story does drag a little in the middle.
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Feb 28, 2012 17:37
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Consider Phlebas is great, but I wouldn't really call it a Culture book as such. It's a sci-fi story which has the Culture in it. I sometimes wonder whether Banks meant for them to take centre stage. Pretty ballsy making them the enemy in the first book if he did intend it all along, though.
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Feb 28, 2012 20:58
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He wrote a bunch of science fiction novels before any of them were ever published, so I don't know if he intended that one to be the introduction of the Culture when he penned it. I think Use of Weapons is the oldest story, and it sat for a long time without the narrative structure we know and love. e: according to wiki, the old verwsion of use of weapons dates back to '74 The Dark One fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Feb 28, 2012 |
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Feb 28, 2012 21:01
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The loving Eaters. 
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Feb 29, 2012 01:13
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Daktar posted:Consider Phlebas is great, but I wouldn't really call it a Culture book as such. It's a sci-fi story which has the Culture in it. I sometimes wonder whether Banks meant for them to take centre stage. Pretty ballsy making them the enemy in the first book if he did intend it all along, though. Eh, I dunno. He makes the culture the antagonists, sorta, but it's also pretty clear that the idirans are loving crazy and that the culture is fairly reasonable in contrast.
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Feb 29, 2012 01:27
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andrew smash posted:Eh, I dunno. He makes the culture the antagonists, sorta, but it's also pretty clear that the idirans are loving crazy and that the culture is fairly reasonable in contrast. It's almost as if there are shades of grey and moral ambiguity. Joramun fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Feb 29, 2012 |
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Feb 29, 2012 01:47
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Daktar posted:Consider Phlebas is great, but I wouldn't really call it a Culture book as such. It's a sci-fi story which has the Culture in it. I sometimes wonder whether Banks meant for them to take centre stage. Pretty ballsy making them the enemy in the first book if he did intend it all along, though. He did. My citation of this consists of having met him a bunch of times - Give him whisk(e)y at your own risk - and conversations that flowed. That I remember, Consider Phlebas is predicate on the base idea of a "Good Guy fighting on the wrong side".
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Feb 29, 2012 02:14
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Joramun posted:It's almost as if there are shades of grey and moral ambiguity.  Thanks for contributing.
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Feb 29, 2012 02:17
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Banks has said that the Culture is his idea of the perfect society to live in. In Consider Phlebas, Horza "fights on the side of life," but is himself a member of a test-tube race of living weapons (not so unlike the Mind he seeks to capture, leading it to name itself after him). Horza may be portrayed as a good guy in some eyes, but from a Culture viewpoint, he murders the transport ship Mind on Vavatch and Uncle Tom's the drone he kidnaps for much of the book. One of the few good guys is the SC agent operating half a galaxy away, doing her best to minimize the loss of life in the epic war, and only exists to show how detached Horza is from the truth.
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Feb 29, 2012 09:33
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Fleetwood posted:Horza may be portrayed as a good guy in some eyes, but from a Culture viewpoint, he murders the transport ship Mind on Vavatch and Uncle Tom's the drone he kidnaps for much of the book.
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Mar 1, 2012 08:36
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I bought Feersum Endjinn earlier as that and the one with the green cover are the only Iain M Banks books I haven't read, is it any good? I've generally dodged the non-Culture ones for some reason and I never got around to finishing Against a Dark Background as I got interrupted reading it and never went back to it.
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Mar 2, 2012 02:12
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a kitten posted:Overall I agree, but a minor nitpick the transport was just a low level AI, not a Mind, not even on a Drone's level as far as I would guess. Doh, good point! I liked how trusting and helpful the machines are shown to be while Horza does his thing. I read Consider Phlebas first, and I'm glad I did because it gives a solid foundation for how the humans and machines relate to each other inside the Culture. The Player of Games puts a magnifying glass on that with a much wider range of personalities. Still new to the series, so Use of Weapons is next (sorta- I have a pile of books which never seems to get smaller).
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Mar 2, 2012 03:42
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Feersum Endjinn has a bunch of phonetic narration, but it stops being work after a while. It's also the Banks book with my favourite character.
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Mar 2, 2012 04:58
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The sections of phonetic dialogue are a little jarring at first and turn a lot of people off but stick with it, it's a great book overall. I don't blame you for not finishing Against a Dark Background though.
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Mar 2, 2012 13:51
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Sweet, I'm wrapping up Children of Dune at the moment so once I've done that I'll get cracking on these, be nice to pick up a paperback as opposed to using my Kindle.
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Mar 2, 2012 14:47
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Finished Matter. It's true it's not one of the best Culture books, but it was fine, it had some interesting points about the morality of the different sides in an high tech race-low tech race involvement and it expanded more the Culture galaxy.
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Mar 2, 2012 15:34
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I just re-read Surface Detail and, well, with all the other level 8 civilisations out there, how come none of them ever prevail against the Culture? I mean, Banks has been hinting increasingly that the Culture is something of a smug bastard that a lot of people would like to embarrass.
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Mar 2, 2012 15:40
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rejutka posted:I just re-read Surface Detail and, well, with all the other level 8 civilisations out there, how come none of them ever prevail against the Culture? I mean, Banks has been hinting increasingly that the Culture is something of a smug bastard that a lot of people would like to embarrass. I think as level 8's go, the Culture is on the high end of the level, because they haven't had the good manners to sublime when they should have. They're also a lot larger than most other 8's (although the Water civilisation from Matter is one exception), especially any single-race ones, and they've fully embraced Minds, which gives them a major strategic and planning advantage. That said, I think it's mostly size. The Homomda, for example, were technologically ahead of the Culture a little during the Idiran war, and supported the Idirans, but they just didn't have the scale to beat them. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Mar 2, 2012 |
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Mar 2, 2012 16:30
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Also, the rest of 'em are a bunch of boring stuffy arseholes. I imagine you might be able to embarrass parts of the Culture, but the rest are under no compulsion to give a drat. Short of all out war, you can't really strike a political body blow to an almost completely anarchist collective.
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Mar 2, 2012 16:36
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Plus conflict is pretty rare amongst level 8s, most of them are mature enough to realize just how pointless and wasteful war is. You're more likely to see trouble from lower level civs looking to flex their muscles in some kind of galactic dick waving contest. Also you're forgetting the traditional saying; DON'T gently caress WITH THE CULTURE.
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Mar 2, 2012 16:49
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GSV What If I Just Want To Twiddle The Nipples?
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Mar 2, 2012 17:11
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rejutka posted:GSV What If I Just Want To Twiddle The Nipples? That would be a totally valid ship name. Along with the ROU Just the tip
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Mar 2, 2012 17:53
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We gonna do this again? GSV Space for Rent GOU Now Look What You Made Me Do
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Mar 2, 2012 17:57
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GSV Are we there yet?
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Mar 2, 2012 18:06
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Joramun posted:Just finished Use of Weapons. Without a doubt one of the most powerful endings of anything ever. I've just finished Use of Weapons, regarding your spoiler I'll quote page 388 of the kindle version: "And he told them about Livueta, who had never forgiven, and had followed him - on another cold ship," Unless this is a lie, I don't think your theory is right. Something I'd never considered before though, it was an interesting idea!
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Mar 2, 2012 18:09
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(d)ROU Melon Farmer
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Mar 2, 2012 18:32
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ROU All the cool kids are doing it
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Mar 2, 2012 19:09
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Fast Picket Now That'll Be A Pain To Clean
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Mar 2, 2012 20:23
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Barry Foster posted:GOU Now Look What You Made Me Do That's already one! It's mentioned in Look to Windward. ROU Irreconcilable Similarities GOU All Uphill From Here
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Mar 3, 2012 02:00
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It's really hard to beat Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The for ship names. A few years back my roommate had a copy of Consider, Phlebas that I read on a whim, I hadn't heard anything about Banks or the Culture beforehand. The ending pissed me off so much that I literally tossed the book aside in anger, something that I've never done in all the years I've been reading. Despite that rather immature reaction I was intrigued enough by the world he set up that a month or two later I decided to buy Player of Games just to see if maybe this one wouldn't end up making me angry. I've been a huge fan of the books ever since. Even if Matter and Surface details aren't quite as great as some of the others, I'm still pretty excited to hear that a new one will be out reasonably soon.
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Mar 3, 2012 02:16
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GOU The BIG Stick ROU Not Your Friend Natty Ninefingers fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Mar 3, 2012 |
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Mar 3, 2012 07:51
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Natty Ninefingers posted:GOU The Big Stick OU I Said, I Have a Big Stick e: holy crap, the wiki entries for the Culture have gotten way, way more expansive since the last time I looked.
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Mar 3, 2012 08:03
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GOU This Hurts Me More Than It Hurts You seems appropriate.
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Mar 3, 2012 12:05
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Prolonged Priapism posted:That's already one! It's mentioned in Look to Windward. Ah bollocks, you're right. Think I'm gonna have to cheat a bit on the next one. ROU Mostly Harmless a kitten posted:It's really hard to beat Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The for ship names. Frank Exchange of Views is my favourite euphemism for horrible, bloody combat ever. Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Mar 3, 2012 |
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Mar 3, 2012 13:21
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