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Gally posted:Well, Ian was in the prison where no magic would work right? Maybe the spell couldn't reach him there, and thus could not work on Haley either. They're also missing the facial tattoos/birthmarks which everyone after the half-Dragon generation seem to have. It also sort of depends on the mechanics of Familicide, I will admit though based on how it is worded that Ian being in the anti-magic zone might have protected Haley. Anti-magic has some issues with Epic level magic though, a standard Anti-magic field isn't going to stop one and its a stretch to assume that Ian was better protected in a prison than the Epic Illusionist in his seat of power. Still though, you're right, the possibility is technically open.
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Feb 29, 2012 06:31
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Gally posted:Well, Ian was in the prison where no magic would work right? Maybe the spell couldn't reach him there, and thus could not work on Haley either. Except that Familicide was a hand-made Epic spell from an Epic necromancer. Silly things like anti-magic shielding wouldn't stand up unless they were MORE epic. As high as V's effective level was when V had Haerta spliced I doubt there was a single being on the entire plane capable of defending against it. And if Tarquin had Epic-level magic on his side his plan would run so smooth we probably would've never even seen him, the clever bastard. tl;dr I don't think the Starshines and Draketeeth are related. Edit: Beaten like V vs. Xykon
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Feb 29, 2012 06:32
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Tinyn posted:And without the Draketooths, where the gently caress did Ian run off to? I think Ian might still be heading towards the Draketooth's temple, if only for one reason: he's going to show up soon and immediately come to the conclusion that Elan caused their deaths, since he still believes he's working for Tarquin.
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Feb 29, 2012 06:52
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So those people with dragon blood had a mark, you say.  Edit: There's a chance Draketooth survived via petrification, but goddamn that would be one hell of a paranoid final option.
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Feb 29, 2012 07:05
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Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
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Feb 29, 2012 07:36
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Now hold up a second. We're going to simply assume there is no incestuous relations going on here or anything. That in mind... Where are all the other halves of all of these relationships? You know, the ones that aren't part of the family bloodline. The ones that wouldn't be hit by the Familicide, unless it goes after unrelated couples, too.
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Feb 29, 2012 07:59
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Gamerofthegame posted:Now hold up a second. No, the description of Familicide said that it would also grab direct relations of those in the bloodline, so it killed wives and husbands too.
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Feb 29, 2012 08:01
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Gamerofthegame posted:Now hold up a second. Two things: 1) If Penelope's story is to be believed, that she's the otherwise-unrelated mother of Draketooth child, apparently the Draketooths steal their children away in the night, keeping those not of the bloodline from knowing about the Gate they guard. 2) The fact that Penelope died around the same time means that probably just having a child with a Draketooth was also enough to get hit by the Familicide spell. Which is...drat nasty. The alternative is that Penelope was lying and was a secret Draketooth there to spy on Elan's father, but this doesn't track, because if that was the case, she'd have no reason to help Nale track down the Gate.
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Feb 29, 2012 08:04
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Gamerofthegame posted:Now hold up a second. The Draketooth clan's standard procedure seems to be seducing someone and then running off with the kid back to the desert if Penelope's case is anything to go by. Plus the lack of any non-redheads in the family tree and how everyone after the first generation appears to have a single parent. Plus Penelope's mysterious death points to the other parents also being killed off even if some of them do make it back. Edit: Beaten
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Feb 29, 2012 08:05
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Bobulus posted:The alternative is that Penelope was lying and was a secret Draketooth there to spy on Elan's father, but this doesn't track, because if that was the case, she'd have no reason to help Nale track down the Gate. In either case I wonder how Tarquin would react if he were to find this out. (I hope he finds out.)
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Feb 29, 2012 08:46
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I can't help but feel that when Roy goes to check up on Belkar he is going to find him dominated by Tarquin and the linear guild waiting just outside the door.
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Feb 29, 2012 10:42
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Nenonen posted:In either case I wonder how Tarquin would react if he were to find this out.
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Feb 29, 2012 10:48
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Bobulus posted:The alternative is that Penelope was lying and was a secret Draketooth there to spy on Elan's father, but this doesn't track, because if that was the case, she'd have no reason to help Nale track down the Gate. If she was a secret Draketooth and had a facial tattoo, giving Tarquin a ring or true seeing is a pretty good way to blow her own cover.
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Feb 29, 2012 11:59
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I was rereading this strip and realized that Tarquin's "come back and fight me in ten years" is almost exactly what Xykon told Roy just before he killed him. Elan was smart enough to take the deal.
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Feb 29, 2012 14:22
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poo poo just got REAL.
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Feb 29, 2012 15:45
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Welp, Familicide it was. Victory dance!  While on one hand I can see the point of those who said they might have enjoyed the surprise more if they hadn't heard the theory first, for myself, I really like analyzing the things Rich puts into the strip and correctly interpreting his clues. You can only get that kind of satisfaction from a work where the author plots ahead and leaves you clues that are hidden enough that not everyone sees it immediately, but still gives you a chance to figure things out in advance if you work for it. The Order of the Stick is one of those rare works where both are true, and getting a payoff where I was right always makes me smile. And since there seems to be a little confusion about how Familicide works, I should remind everyone that "Every living creature that directly shares your blood line is dead." That would be all the dead Draketooths we see here, who were descended from a black dragon. Possibly that black dragon was the brother of the one that V battled, since she said she was away visiting her child's uncle when the Order came by and stormed their lair. If that's so, I guess they were a pretty open-minded family indeed! We should also note that the "every living creature" clause is what allows for the possibility of Girard-as-the-statue to still work, since he's not currently alive, and thus would not have been killed by the spell. The second half of Famlicide is: "Every living creature that is related to any of those creatures is also dead. Anyone who could possibly make a claim to be part of your family is gone now." That's the part that takes out Penelope. Since she's related to Orrin's daughter, Familicide killed her too. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Feb 29, 2012 |
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Feb 29, 2012 15:49
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Zore posted:The Draketooth clan's standard procedure seems to be seducing someone and then running off with the kid back to the desert if Penelope's case is anything to go by. Oh my god I just realised, it was this practice that made them so vulnerable to V's spell. If there was anyone who had simply married into the family and not yet had a child, they would've survived the spell because they weren't directly related to a descendant yet. Depending on how much they knew, they could've maybe got a message to the other gate guardians or something. But nope, everyone at the gate is blood-related so everyone dies. Their paranoia was their undoing. Goddamn Burlew, that's some nice planning there.
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Feb 29, 2012 16:01
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That is one broken spell, did none of them get a saving throw?
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Feb 29, 2012 16:14
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greatn posted:That is one broken spell, did none of them get a saving throw? It's epic level magic, of course it's broken.
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Feb 29, 2012 16:21
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greatn posted:That is one broken spell, did none of them get a saving throw? A. It took down dragons handily, so no. B. It was the most powerful spell of an epic necromancer who was stayed to be substantially more powerful than 2 other epic casters. "no save" seems like a plausible modifier.
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Feb 29, 2012 16:24
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ikanreed posted:A. It took down dragons handily, so no. If its a spell there should be a saving throw, and if there is a savingthrow (no matter how high) then Girard himself should have had a existing shot at saving (since he was epic levelled just like the rest of the Order of the Scribble)
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Feb 29, 2012 16:26
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Affi posted:If its a spell there should be a saving throw, and if there is a savingthrow (no matter how high) then Girard himself should have had a existing shot at saving (since he was epic levelled just like the rest of the Order of the Scribble) No, not really. Plenty of spells don't have saving throws, epic magic especially.
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Feb 29, 2012 16:29
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Heck, Magic Missile doesn't give a saving throw.
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Feb 29, 2012 16:33
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What if Girard had a magic item to store a Flesh to Stone spell that could be triggered by something? Epic magic, necromancy/instant death spells, that sort of thing. I don't know how that would go rules-wise, but it might fit with his whole "paranoid epic caster" thing. (Assuming we're still going on the 'Statue is Girard' line of thought.)
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Feb 29, 2012 17:10
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Affi posted:If its a spell there should be a saving throw, and if there is a savingthrow (no matter how high) then Girard himself should have had a existing shot at saving (since he was epic levelled just like the rest of the Order of the Scribble) Welcome to high-level D&D, where they drop the pretense that anyone can do anything against a wizard 
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Feb 29, 2012 17:12
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I had a pair of goggles once that protected the user from petrification effects by blinding him just before he could see.
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Feb 29, 2012 17:13
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Judging by other spells, it seems entirely reasonable that Familicide could simply deny saves to anyone with a CR 10 or more lower than Haetara (pretty much everyone).
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Feb 29, 2012 17:18
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Ashenai posted:Welcome to high-level D&D, where they drop the pretense that anyone can do anything against a wizard This is pretty much what it boils down to. It's epic level magic, epic level mages are better than you, period. You are their play thing unless the plot demands otherwise.
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Feb 29, 2012 17:43
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Captain Oblivious posted:This is pretty much what it boils down to. It's epic level magic, epic level mages are better than you, period. You are their play thing unless the plot demands otherwise. For further reading, see the spell "Nailed to the Sky".
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Feb 29, 2012 17:57
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I really didn't realize they were that completely bonkers. So what you are saying that in a duel between two highlevel mages it pays dividends to have a great initiative?
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Feb 29, 2012 18:00
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Affi posted:I really didn't realize they were that completely bonkers. So what you are saying that in a duel between two highlevel mages it pays dividends to have a great initiative? Really I'd say it matters more what they did before they even got in range for initiative to matter.
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Feb 29, 2012 18:07
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Affi posted:I really didn't realize they were that completely bonkers. So what you are saying that in a duel between two highlevel mages it pays dividends to have a great initiative? They stopped using initiative at least 10 levels ago. Either they're unreachable, nearly permanently shapeshifted into one of the 'gently caress you I always go first' monsters or they use celerity and timestop to get away. V's fight against the dragon? Like that but better prepared every single day. And that's before you get into the brokenness that is epic magic.
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Feb 29, 2012 18:08
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Zore posted:They stopped using initiative at least 10 levels ago. Either they're unreachable, nearly permanently shapeshifted into one of the 'gently caress you I always go first' monsters or they use celerity and timestop to get away. V's fight against the dragon? Like that but better prepared every single day. In a duel between two high level mages he said. Which again, really boils down to who prepared better.
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Feb 29, 2012 18:10
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Captain Oblivious posted:In a duel between two high level mages he said. Or who cares about something beyond survival. Their rear end is dead as evidenced by Dorukon, Lirian, those guys in SoD... Otherwise I don't think even another mage could actually force a confroarontation. Zore fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Feb 29, 2012 |
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Feb 29, 2012 18:16
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wdarkk posted:Judging by other spells, it seems entirely reasonable that Familicide could simply deny saves to anyone with a CR 10 or more lower than Haetara (pretty much everyone).
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Feb 29, 2012 18:44
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Well, this certainly sheds new light on why there was so much friction between Draketooth and Soon.
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Feb 29, 2012 18:48
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Affi posted:I really didn't realize they were that completely bonkers. So what you are saying that in a duel between two highlevel mages it pays dividends to have a great initiative? It always pays to have great initiative, because it's loving drop dead simple and surprisingly affordable to have great initiative.
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Feb 29, 2012 19:07
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Affi posted:I really didn't realize they were that completely bonkers. So what you are saying that in a duel between two highlevel mages it pays dividends to have a great initiative? Not really, they'll both have Contingent Spells up (essentially magic scripts: when a predetermined event happens, the contingent spell triggers by itself, without the wizard having to do anything.) Stuff like "If anyone attempts to cast a 6th level spell or higher targeting me that I didn't explicitly agree to, trigger Finger of Death targeting the caster, then trigger Greater Teleport teleporting me back to my fortress, then trigger Superb Dispelling on any magical effects on me I didn't cast myself. If I'm dead, trigger Wish, resurrecting me." It'll probably all come down to which wizard wrote the better "script." Ashenai fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 29, 2012 |
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Feb 29, 2012 19:30
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Ashenai posted:Not really, they'll both have Contingent Spells up (essentially magic scripts: when a predetermined event happens, the contingent spell triggers by itself, without the wizard having to do anything.) Stuff like "If anyone attempts to cast a 6th level spell or higher targeting me that I didn't explicitly agree to, trigger Finger of Death targeting the caster, then trigger Greater Teleport teleporting me back to my fortress, then trigger Superb Dispelling on any magical effects on me I didn't cast myself. If I'm dead, trigger Wish, resurrecting me." It'll probably all come down to which wizard wrote the better "script." brb planning DnD cyberpunk campaign, tentative title 'Hex Coders.'
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Feb 29, 2012 20:05
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W.T. Fits posted:Well, this certainly sheds new light on why there was so much friction between Draketooth and Soon. It does? How?
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