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Black Dragons are inherently evil. The Azure City paladins feels that inherently evil creatures may be slaughtered wholesale, up to and including their defenseless, innocent children.
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Feb 29, 2012 20:26
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Cuchulain posted:Black Dragons are inherently evil. The Azure City paladins feels that inherently evil creatures may be slaughtered wholesale, up to and including their defenseless, innocent children. Unless they only started doing that to protect the gates. I think that would have been after Soon did whatever he did to make Draketooth despise him. Though I could be wrong.
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Feb 29, 2012 20:32
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Cuchulain posted:Black Dragons are inherently evil. The Azure City paladins feels that inherently evil creatures may be slaughtered wholesale, up to and including their defenseless, innocent children. I gathered that it was more that Girard had a problem with Soon, not the other way around.
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Feb 29, 2012 20:39
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terminal mehmet posted:Unless they only started doing that to protect the gates. I think that would have been after Soon did whatever he did to make Draketooth despise him. Though I could be wrong.
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Feb 29, 2012 21:23
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Maybe it's just me but I saw it as Girard and Soon just inherently not getting along. With the death of Kraggor basically turning the friction into out right hatred.
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Feb 29, 2012 23:07
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Ashenai posted:Not really, they'll both have Contingent Spells up (essentially magic scripts: when a predetermined event happens, the contingent spell triggers by itself, without the wizard having to do anything.) Stuff like "If anyone attempts to cast a 6th level spell or higher targeting me that I didn't explicitly agree to, trigger Finger of Death targeting the caster, then trigger Greater Teleport teleporting me back to my fortress, then trigger Superb Dispelling on any magical effects on me I didn't cast myself. If I'm dead, trigger Wish, resurrecting me." It'll probably all come down to which wizard wrote the better "script." I think that PbP campaign lasted a few rounds (since abuse of Time Stops and similar abilities caused each round to take several pages).
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Feb 29, 2012 23:09
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Basically there's a reason the only high level casters are V, who uses mostly blasting spells, Durkon, who is a heal/support caster, and the antagonists.
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Feb 29, 2012 23:29
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Order of the Stick? NEVER HEARD OF IT.
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Feb 29, 2012 23:33
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sansuki posted:Order of the Stick? NEVER HEARD OF IT. Boy that fog sure is interesting to look at.
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Feb 29, 2012 23:39
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sansuki posted:Order of the Stick? NEVER HEARD OF IT. No, I'm not going to give it hell because it looks like OotS. I'm going to give it hell because the writing is stilted and forced.
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Feb 29, 2012 23:45
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sansuki posted:Order of the Stick? NEVER HEARD OF IT. Wasn't there also another pretty blatant copy called the Way of the Metagamer or something?
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Mar 1, 2012 00:03
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I think it's likely that Girard is the statue. Remember when the Order tried to direct a Sending spell to him in the desert? They said he was unwilling or unable to respond, which I thought at the time meant "not dead". At the very least, it would be a prudent contingency given what's happened. Also, writing as someone who doesn't normally follow threads like this, the reveal here was fantastic. That's why I'm visiting now- to see lead up and reaction to it.
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Mar 1, 2012 00:14
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Calaveron posted:Wasn't there also another pretty blatant copy called the Way of the Metagamer or something? There's something like four or five at least, they advertise in the forums.
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Mar 1, 2012 01:02
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Are we counting Keychain of Creation among these copies?
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Mar 1, 2012 03:26
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Cuchulain posted:Black Dragons are inherently evil. The Azure City paladins feels that inherently evil creatures may be slaughtered wholesale, up to and including their defenseless, innocent children. They're not inherently evil. They're "always chaotic evil" so they are born with that alignment, but they don't have the subtype or anything, so they're quite capable of becoming non-evil. Not that it's likely. But the paladins are still dicks.
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Mar 1, 2012 04:39
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Jefepato posted:They're not inherently evil. They're "always chaotic evil" so they are born with that alignment, but they don't have the subtype or anything, so they're quite capable of becoming non-evil. Note that 'always' in the context of the Monster Manual only means like 80%. Also, because they don't have an alignment subtype they aren't born with any particular alignment. So most Black Dragons are inclined towards Chaotic evil, with most of the rest some flavor of Chaotic Neutral or Neutral evil, but they choose that. They aren't born that way any more than Goblins or humans.
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Mar 1, 2012 04:42
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So Black Dragons' tendency towards evil is cultural? Bad parents raising nasty hatchlings and telling them it's okay to treat people like ants, "because they ARE ANTS!"
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Mar 1, 2012 07:43
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404GoonNotFound posted:Are we counting Keychain of Creation among these copies? The less said of that crap the better
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Mar 1, 2012 07:58
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Speedball posted:So Black Dragons' tendency towards evil is cultural? Bad parents raising nasty hatchlings and telling them it's okay to treat people like ants, "because they ARE ANTS!" Eh, biologically they may have like a lack of empathy too and some traits that tend to set them on the path to being chaotic evil. Culture probably also plays a pretty big role. A small proportion of them, probably 3-8% are explicitly on the 'good' end of the alignment scale. They're the exception, not the norm, which is why the alignment entry is written the way it is. You have such a small chance of running into a good Black Dragon that it isn't really reasonable to expect it. There are no creatures, besides mindless undead, that are literally always evil though. Even Demons with the 'Evil' subtype.
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Mar 1, 2012 08:05
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cool alignment debate guys
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Mar 1, 2012 08:08
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It's been a long while since I last played D&D and the epic level spell and dragon alignment spergin' are flying right over my head. I know the comic is plenty enjoyable without deep (or any) knowledge of D&D, but honest question - how much more enjoyable is it and the speculation when you have that knowledge to add to it? Predefined rules you know it'll mostly follow instead of Rich pulling things out of his rear end and whatnot.
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Mar 1, 2012 08:13
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Captain Oblivious posted:The less said of that crap the better I thought it was good 
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Mar 1, 2012 08:23
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Kimitsu posted:It's been a long while since I last played D&D and the epic level spell and dragon alignment spergin' are flying right over my head. I know the comic is plenty enjoyable without deep (or any) knowledge of D&D, but honest question - how much more enjoyable is it and the speculation when you have that knowledge to add to it? Predefined rules you know it'll mostly follow instead of Rich pulling things out of his rear end and whatnot. It does add to the enjoyment, but it's definitely not a huge deal. Knowing D&D was way more important for the early strips, when the comic was still largely about games mechanics gags.
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Mar 1, 2012 08:28
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Ordinarily I despise alignment discusssions, but not this time. Funny. Just how old was the dragon that V nuked? I know they get up there, but she's had a whole lot of generations of offspring beneath her to fry.
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Mar 1, 2012 08:53
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Speedball posted:Ordinarily I despise alignment discusssions, but not this time. Funny. Probably around a century or so, he was too small to be anything but a Juvenile and his mother implies he's roughly analogous to a human teenager. Plus I think he was her only son, or her dialogue implies that at least. I mean V's kids are both 26 and going to kindergarten. Zore fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Mar 1, 2012 |
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Mar 1, 2012 09:07
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Speedball posted:Ordinarily I despise alignment discusssions, but not this time. Funny. She could cast Anti-Magic Shell, which would make her a Wyrm or Great Wyrm: over a thousand years old. edit: I think Speedball meant the mother dragon V cast Familicide on.
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Mar 1, 2012 09:09
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The mother dragon's age is fairly irrelevant. We know there was a male black dragon of fertile age two generations earlier than Girard, however long that is (half-dragons have better life spans too, I presume), but he could have been either an older OR a younger relative of her, equally as easily. Based on what Ashenai pointed out the answer is probably 'younger', though.
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Mar 1, 2012 10:06
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Some Guy TT posted:Also, writing as someone who doesn't normally follow threads like this, the reveal here was fantastic. That's why I'm visiting now- to see lead up and reaction to it. I agree. I only just finished reading OotS start to finish and it seems it was pretty well timed, too.  I wasn't really sure what to think of the comic at first, but after having read the whole thing I'm surprised how well written it is, I really enjoyed it. It really seems to me though that the comic has definitely taken a turn for the darker since it started, what with the Familicide, the murder of Tsukiko, and now this. Also, I'm sort of vouching for Redcloak at this point.  His goal of getting a safe and peaceful place for his people seems pretty noble, as far as evilness goes. He's also had some fantastic character exposition in the last bunch of comics.
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Mar 1, 2012 10:22
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Yeah Man posted:I thought it was good The first mention of keyblades should have sent up a red flag in your head, even if the tiny overly-cutesy goth girl didn't.
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Mar 1, 2012 10:25
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Does anyone have a definition of "directly related"? I tried Google with no luck. I mean it covers mothers and sons and brothers and sisters but what about cousins? or second and third cousins? after all the black dragon mother that V killed must have been related in some way to EVERY black dragon on the planet. It seems strange to me that the spell included the Draketooth clan who are mostly human but still left some black dragons alive as V says 25% of them are dead not all of them.
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Mar 1, 2012 10:37
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sansuki posted:Order of the Stick? NEVER HEARD OF IT. And to think that, if that updater is correct, there is over 200 pages of that and it still looks horrible.
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Mar 1, 2012 11:08
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Choc posted:It seems strange to me that the spell included the Draketooth clan who are mostly human but still left some black dragons alive as V says 25% of them are dead not all of them. It probably only goes back as far as the oldest currently living relative. So if the Dragon-Mother V cast the spell on has a living parent (It's possible, dragons live a loving long time), but no living grandparents, it would hit her parents, aunts, uncles, 1st cousins, etc, but not 2nd cousins. Depending on the age of the world vs the time since the Gods last re-created the planet, I could believe 25% of the living black dragons all had a great-great-etc-grand-drake that was living up 'til now.
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Mar 1, 2012 11:15
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Cliff Racer posted:And to think that, if that updater is correct, there is over 200 pages of that and it still looks horrible. My favourite thing about that piece of poo poo is that not only is it ripping off the OotS content, but also the website design. Way to be original, duder.
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Mar 1, 2012 11:52
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Der Shovel posted:My favourite thing about that piece of poo poo is that not only is it ripping off the OotS content, but also the website design. Way to be original, duder. Oh, holy gently caress, the second strip even SAYS so. Man.
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Mar 1, 2012 14:16
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Zore posted:Note that 'always' in the context of the Monster Manual only means like 80%. I looked at the Monster Manual when I wrote that post. It literally says "always" means the creature is born with the alignment. You're essentially right that no critter with a mind is literally always evil, though. (Except maybe beholders, but their weird dual-mind thing probably stopped being the case after 2e.)
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Mar 1, 2012 16:01
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404GoonNotFound posted:The first mention of keyblades should have sent up a red flag in your head, even if the tiny overly-cutesy goth girl didn't. The protagonist is the "Nice Guy" archetype to a tee, and then there's the Lunar who's characterization is 100% "whoreswhoreswhoreswhoreswhores". It is a Bad Webcomic.
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Mar 1, 2012 16:46
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Zore posted:Eh, biologically they may have like a lack of empathy too and some traits that tend to set them on the path to being chaotic evil. Culture probably also plays a pretty big role. A small proportion of them, probably 3-8% are explicitly on the 'good' end of the alignment scale. They're the exception, not the norm, which is why the alignment entry is written the way it is. You have such a small chance of running into a good Black Dragon that it isn't really reasonable to expect it. I'm sorry, their scales aren't shiny, ergo: Evil.
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Mar 1, 2012 16:54
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Effingham posted:Oh, holy gently caress, the second strip even SAYS so. Man. The first one, actually.   So, if you would be so kind, proceed to make fun of it for all the ways it suck (I haven't read it, so I'd be happy to learn why I needn't bother), and avoid being precisely the kind of fanboys this guy correctly calls out and making fun of it because it adopts a simple, effective, proven visual style.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:02
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NihilCredo posted:The first one, actually. I don't think acknowledging the source of the theft counts as some sort of "get out of criticism free" card.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:33
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Could we not do this? I remember when the thread was full of complaining about Erfworld. If it isn't OOTS, go to the wrbcomics thread general or start a new thread.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:35
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