Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

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RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

InternetJunky posted:

So what are the savings after you factor in any increase in crime that results from withholding aid from desperate people?

Depends, what's the cost of a bullet? :smug:

# ? Mar 1, 2012 02:14

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# ? May 25, 2024 12:18

Incorrect Username: Feb 21, 2011

Leon Einstein posted:

Give a man a meal and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Providing their basic needs doesn't teach them anything. They just have to suck it up and work hard. Everybody can be a millionaire in this country if they just put enough sweat and effort into it.

Yeah, that is exactly what those dumbfucks believe. Nevermind the fact that the whole premise of "on welfare for life" is completely wrong.

Pretty much, although they still want to try their hardest to make sure no one else gets a fishing rod because they've already got theirs.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 06:53

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

So let's say gas prices go to record levels over the next 6 months or so, which they definitely may. To be completely and totally fair, how many people of a particularly liberal bent will make vague statements about how "The oil companies are trying to do their best to make sure Obama isn't re-elected"?

I'm not making a South Park-esque statement about how all sides are equally bad because I don't at all believe such a thing but I do believe I'll hear that statement from at least one or two people if there's a ridiculous spike.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 08:05

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

90% of people are dumb. Can't be helped.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 08:32

Leon Einstein: Feb 6, 2012; I must win every thread in GBS. I don't care how much banal semantic quibbling and shitty posts it takes.

Incorrect Username posted:

Pretty much, although they still want to try their hardest to make sure no one else gets a fishing rod because they've already got theirs.

More like they want a poo poo ton of fishing rods, even though a reasonable person only needs one.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 15:31

babies havin rabies: Feb 24, 2006

Leon Einstein posted:

More like they want a poo poo ton of fishing rods, even though a reasonable person only needs one.

Actually, in the current system they own 99 out of every 100 fishing rods and pay everybody else to fish using their rods, then keep the fish and make the people use their wages to buy back the fish they caught. Also, in order to be qualified to fish using their rods, you have to go into debt and show a special piece of paper proving it.

babies havin rabies fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 1, 2012

# ? Mar 1, 2012 15:48

AlternateNu: May 5, 2005; ドーナツダメ！

Jesus H. Tapdancing-Christ. I just had my first run in with a rabid Ron Paul guy (I can only surmise he was a Ron Paul supporter because he kept mentioning gold) on Facebook. They sound so...so reasonable at first. I don't know what just happened. It was in response to that stupid Gas Pump Post-It, and we were talking about the source of the price hikes when...

Craziness Ensues posted:

Him
The price of gas hasn't changed. It's the same per gallon when indexed against the price of gold. But, nobody wants to talk about the man-made inflation of the Federal Reserve that is causing all of this. So, we can complain about the pr...ice at the pump but until people are willing to point their finger at the government for getting multiple times the money per gallon that a gas company gets or for de-valuing the money in the pockets of the citizens, we're just wasting our time.

Him http://personalliberty.com/2012/02/29/contrary-to-popular-belief-gas-prices-arent-rising/

AlternateNu
The gas was under $2 at the end of 2008 because that's when the market crashed. Six months prior, it was over $4. Oil prices are based on futures and the people who set the prices are OPEC and the large oil companies. To think that the Pres...ident has any non-negligible effect on the price of gas is ridiculous. Tapping strategic reserves would never have long-term solutions, anyway.

And really. We have the lowest gas prices of any industrialized nation. People need to stop complaining.

Him
Interestingly enough, the price of oil started to skyrocket just after we began our latest military offensives (on your own linked graph). Since there is no declared war (and hasn't been since WW II - nearly 70 years ago), who is in contro...l of that decision if not the President? Who controls the agencies preventing American oil production if not the President? There is no person on this planet that has more control over the price of oil than the President of the United States.

AlternateNu
I'm not denying the fact that military action in the oil-heavy regions of the world affect oil prices. But, that point in ancillary to the actual cause of bloated gas prices. Like I stated earlier, oil prices are based on futures, and the r...eal root of the problem originated in 1991 when the CFTC removed position limits on speculations on the market. Wall street speculators were no longer bound by federal limits on transactions. This was authorized neither by the President nor Congress at the time, but the chair of the CFTC. If you want to start pointing political fingers. the char was a Bush I appointee.

Once major banking agencies (Goldman Sachs, etc) started getting these government exemptions, it exploded the amount of money invested in commodities, which artificially rises the price. Between 2003 and 2008, the amount of money in commodity indicies rose from $13 billion to $317 billion. Not coincidentally, ALL commodities on the S&P GSCI and Dow-AIG jumped dramatically during this time; not just oil. In April 2008 the secretary-general of OPEC, a Libyan named Abdalla El-Badri, said flatly that �oil supply to the market is enough and high oil prices are not due to a shortage of crude.� So, the conflicts in the Gulf did not cause any sort of "scarcity" that may have jump prices that high. It created a bubble that ended up bursting in late 2008, and not only did oil prices plummet but food prices as well. All commodities took a large hit.

It has nothing to do with inflation; nothing to do with (overt) politics; and nothing to do with carpet bombing Iraq or the Arab Spring. It was massive speculative investing by large corporations and price setting by OPEC, because at that point, the wealth oil-barons in the Mid East had most of their money in futures speculation.

Him
Buried in the numbers is the entire point, and you're making it without knowing it. "Futures" speculation is all about people betting money on what they believe the situation WILL be. It doesn't matter why they believe it, just that they'...re right. Every single time a political decision is made that restricts local production, it paints the "future" picture of limited supply and the possibility that control of that supply will be lost.

If the production of oil in this country were to increase, prices would go down. You can't argue that. It's simply a fact. You can play word games all day but, just like this belief that Iran is going to cut off oil supply, it's all insanity. A country that relies on the SALE of oil for its income cannot afford to not sell it. All the oil in the world is useless if it's sitting in the ground or in big tanks, unrefined and unused.

To say "it has nothing to do with inflation" is also incorrect. The price of EVERYTHING is based upon the supply of the item, the demand for the item, and the value of the exchange medium (in this case, a dollar). You can't claim the supply is constant, the demand is decreasing (and it is), but then ignore the increase in price at the pump. That increase, when indexed against the price of gold, is the same as it was in the early 70s.

AlternateNu
Dude. You need to learn what "inflation" means, because what you're describing is supply/demand economics which has little to do with the amount of currency within an economic system.

Besides the fact that I know what futures speculation ...is, you're missing the point that the system has been rigged. Prices are effectively controlled because no matter what public opinion is on scarcity of a commodity, the real investors (corporations and the wealthy elite) can artificially keep the price high by pumping money into the commodities market.

And, people need to stop thinking that increased American production will lower prices. We don't have our own little commodities market to regulate pricing. Our supply pricing is effected just as much by the global market as anyone else's, and once our supplies hit the market, they will just be averaged out along with the rest of the world's oil. (Use of our strategic reserves is a slightly different scenario.) There is so much oil flowing in the market right now that whatever we produce would mean absolutely nothing. Do you realize that JP Morgan is sitting on over 270 million barrels of oil. Literally...they have fleets of tankers and storage facilities just hoarding it. Why? To wait until prices go up, then unload it.

AlternateNu
Well. After re-reading your post, I'll straight say that we're talking about two different types of inflation. You're describing price inflation, while I'm talking about monetary inflation. So, in that sense, you're right that supply/demand... affects prices, but considering the numbers at work here, price inflation has nothing to do with the rise because it is so unstable. Price inflation does not describe such a massive drop in commodities such as seen in 2008.

Him
Okay, so in addition to your use of the word "dude" and telling me I need to "learn what inflation means", you've failed to provide what you believe a solution is. Your grand statement of "people need to stop complaining" has been the clos...est thing to a recommendation you've offered.
Additionally, not only was this discussion about the price of gas at an American gas pump (look at the photo that was posted to begin with), your understanding of what it takes to get a product to the consumer is apparently at a grade school level if you believe, as the rest of your liberal buddies do, that the term "global market" miraculously allows people to buy and sell things all over the world at the same price. Your entire argument either proves my point or is self-defeating and you're too busy being condescending to see it.

First of all, as long as people are paying the price that is being asked, supply and demand will have an affect on the market. That means that if we increased supply from local sources, not only would those jobs and revenues (and taxes) be used locally, in our economy, but the product wouldn't have to be shipped half-way around the world, incurring transportation and other costs along the way. A "global market" does not mean we're going to ship all of our oil to the middle east and combine it into some giant vat with the rest of the world's oil, it simply means that we'll be entering into that marketplace as a supplier instead of purely a consumer. The more of our own product we consume, the lower the overall cost to deliver it AND the more of that money we keep at home, in the pockets of Americans, and able to be spent to strengthen our own economy and create more jobs. It also means that if these other nations want to compete with us on that "global market" so that we don't take away their income through our own exports, they have to lower their prices too.

But, all of that aside, monetary inflation and the policies of the United States Federal Reserve are the reasons for not only the inflation we're seeing now, but the reason for the economic collapse in 2008 and the reason why we're unable to recover now. So, preach all you want as if you're talking to someone that buys it, but your understanding of the process is either not as good as you'd like to believe or you just don't like blaming the actual people that could fix it because they have the same beliefs in other areas as you.See More

Him
The price of a barrel of oil in 1971 - 0.0602 ounces of gold per barrel
The price of a barrel of oil in 2012 - 0.0603 ounces of gold per barrel

The American dollar is the world's reserve currency. That means that its value affects commodi...ties all over the globe. As we continue to de-value that dollar, fiat prices will continue to rise. Up until the point that the world gets tired of us thinking we can save ourselves by destroying them and stops accepting our worthless paper. When that day comes, there will be no point in saying "I told you so" because we won't be having this conversation.See More

AlternateNu
I don't know what me being "liberal" has anything to do with the argument, but okay. (Let me guess, you're a Ron Paul supporter?)

In either case, this was a discussion about causes, not one about solutions, but if you want one from me, the... clear path would be to reinstate the previous limits on hedge funds and speculation. I thought that was pretty obvious.

As for the supply/demand argument, the whole issue is fruitless because we're talking about a finite resource; and not in the way that food can be finite. We've already hit peak oil, and things will only get worse from here. Tapping our own resources is a short-term solution at best, and despite how much people want to hate on green energy, we're going to have to think of something, because we're going to be boned within our lifetime.

(Oh, and if you want to go all ad hominem on me because I used the word "dude" on facebook, you need to realize that this is facebook and...well...this is facebook. Don't take it so seriously.)

Him
Well, to answer your question, you are a liberal and your "increasing our supply won't do anything" argument is getting old and is completely wrong - just like the rest of the liberals. That's why I said it - it's a grouping of people that are wrong.

Him
Also, oil is NOT a finite resource - that's another one of the largest lies perpetrated on us. Just like Green House Gas theory and Global Warming - it's used to hijack the world into believing that type of crap you're serving. They've all been disproven.

Him ‎
"peak oil" is a lie - do some research instead of repeating what you're fed

AlternateNu
Wow. I'm speechless. I was having a good time debating with you until you pulled out the crazy. So, I guess this is where I stop.

Have a good life, and well...I pity you, man.

Him
I don't need the pity of someone that's only argument against truth and fact is hysteria, sarcasm, and insult. Good day and good luck.

Him http://www.321energy.com/editorials/bainerman/bainerman083105.html

Him http://www.biocab.org/Density-of-Energy-in-Atmosphere.html

Him http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php

I know I fudged some of the main points and made a few mistakes on the way, but holy gently caress, that end. I'm still in shock.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 19:55

Pead: May 31, 2001; Nap Ghost

When someone says "oil is NOT a finite resource" you should just back away slowly.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 20:01

Kro-Bar: Jul 24, 2004; USPOL May

So oil is literally infinite? :wtc:

# ? Mar 1, 2012 20:02

24-7 Urkel Cosplay: Feb 12, 2003

I am absolutely confounded with his argument that gas prices aren't rising because they can be indexed against the price of gold. The price of gold has also skyrocketed, so his point doesn't work at all.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 20:08

archangelwar: Oct 28, 2004; Teaching Moments

Chunk posted:

I am absolutely confounded with his argument that gas prices aren't rising because they can be indexed against the price of gold. The price of gold has also skyrocketed, so his point doesn't work at all.

The best part is that even if he is correct, it is only by mere coincidence that he was able to correlate the two time periods because the price of oil does not track the trending price of gold at all.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 20:12

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

Kro-Bar posted:

So oil is literally infinite?

Don't you know that oil is really the product of bacteria and that there is an inexhaustible supply of it?

# ? Mar 1, 2012 20:13

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Armyman25 posted:

Don't you know that oil is really the product of bacteria and that there is an inexhaustible supply of it?

Didn't a US senator once say something ridiculous like this?

# ? Mar 1, 2012 20:16

zeroprime: Mar 25, 2006; Words go here.; Fun Shoe

Kro-Bar posted:

So oil is literally infinite?

Some people actually think that, yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin#Siljan_Ring.2C_Sweden

# ? Mar 1, 2012 20:39

myron cope: Apr 21, 2009

"globalwarminghoax.com" sounds like a pretty legitimate site to me!

# ? Mar 1, 2012 21:06

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

zeroprime posted:

Some people actually think that, yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin#Siljan_Ring.2C_Sweden

to be fair, there are some legitimate hypothesis on bacteria in the crust creating hydrocarbons. No serious scientist is claiming that all, most, or even a large quantity of it was made via these processes.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 21:50

DarkHorse: Dec 13, 2006; Nap Ghost

This seems to be a great, comprehensive, and mostly unbiased primer on the history of oil and what we can expect. I haven't read through it all, but it has a lot of the information I've picked up from other places.

http://oildepletion.blogspot.com/

It doesn't address that one crazy dude's adherence to supply and demand curves and gold, but those should be pretty easy to refute. Is there a convenient way to find data on gold price and oil prices? It should be easy to import them into excel and divide one by the other.

EDIT - Might as well add my own crazy political rant:

The US consumes around 19 million barrels of oil a day. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

The Alaska National Wildlife Refuge, the most likely untapped source for a productive source for oil in the US, may have as much as 9.2 barrels of extractable oil or as little as 600 million barrels, with a probable average of 3.5 billion. That works out to 484 days of oil, 31 days of oil, but probably around 184 days of oil at current consumption rates. That's predicting absolutely no growth in demand for energy in the US for a country just barely pulling out of a massive recession. http://www.anwr.org/Background/How-much-oil-is-in-ANWR.php

As of 2006, Chevron (yes that Chevron) was saying that the world consumed two barrels of oil for each new barrel that was discovered. The source I have quoted it from Financial Times, Feb 2006, but I can't access it directly. The May 15, 2006 edition of Business Week repeats that statistic, 2:1. Exxon Mobil has made similar statements, and Goldman Sachs has this to say about the future of oil companies:

quote:

The great merger mania is nothing more
than a scaling down of a dying industry in
recognition that 90% of global conventional
oil has already been found.

Goldman Sachs in Energy Weekly

We've already hit peak oil, we are just currently eating into the massive surplus we accumulated in the years when discovery outpaced consumption. We've been eating into that reserve for the past 40 years - new oil discoveries are in smaller amounts of of lower quality than previous discoveries, and they're fewer in number too. Consider that we as a species have burned through 4 billion years worth of crude in the course of two centuries... it will take hundreds of millions of years for new oil deposits to form, sink into the earth, get liquified by heat and pressure, and percolate up into oil traps that we can get at easily. Whatever the source of oil may be, it is not "renewable" in any reasonable sense of the word.

:rant:

DarkHorse fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Mar 1, 2012

# ? Mar 1, 2012 23:03

KillerBean: May 5, 2004; by Y Kant Ozma Post

NatasDog posted:

Someone reposted Petey's D&D thread on gas prices from March of last year on their blog at http://webewizards.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/repost-why-is-gas-so-loving-expensive-the-answer-may-surprise-you/, but it does a pretty good job explaining what and who is responsible for the ridiculous prices of gas. I linked it to a buddy of mine who posted the post-it note on the gas pump to his facebook earlier.

Thanks for this. It goes back over some articles I've already read but facts like the following are mindblowing

Matt Tiabbi posted:

from 2003 to July 2008, the amount of money invested in commodity indices rose from $13 billion to $317 billion

# ? Mar 1, 2012 23:25

zeroprime: Mar 25, 2006; Words go here.; Fun Shoe

The price of oil was much more closely pegged to the price of gold before the US went off the gold standard, and varied much more after moving away from the gold standard.

# ? Mar 1, 2012 23:27

Loving Life Partner: Apr 17, 2003

God I hope I'm long, long dead before the Oil Wars start.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 00:28

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

The oil wars started a long time ago.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 00:29

Loving Life Partner: Apr 17, 2003

euphronius posted:

The oil wars started a long time ago.

I suppose, I just mean the domestic aspect of a very bad shortage, the riots and pillaging and all that fun stuff.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 00:31

DarkHorse: Dec 13, 2006; Nap Ghost

Ugh. This is the link they're discussing, which is gross for other reasons.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 01:58

Xarthor: Nov 11, 2003; Need Ink or Toner for
Your Printer?
Check out my
Thread in SA-Mart!; Lipstick Apathy

My buddy James and me (green) are having a discussion that started with Breitbart but somehow found it's way to voter ID laws and welfare.

Anyhow, I think I've held my own pretty well but if someone could point me to a few resources on why voter ID laws are effectively poll taxes and why people aren't living the high life on welfare (along with any other points I've missed) I'd appreciate it.

By the way, James grew up in a wealthy suburb of a major U.S. city. If he sounds privileged and whiny about poor people, it's because I suspect he is. I'm trying to get him to see the other side.

Xarthor fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Mar 2, 2012

# ? Mar 2, 2012 01:59

Push El Burrito: May 9, 2006; Soiled Meat

ACORN had to, by law, register EVERYONE that came along. Even if a person wrote down that their name was "A Fry Guy" from "6969 Your Mother's Butt Way". By Law they would have to take that registration form and file it.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 02:17

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

just a reminder, don't get into twitter fights with people, everyone comes out as a loser, including myself. Debating health care was not worth it for 140 characters.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 02:32

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

DarkHorse posted:

That works out to 484 days of oil, 31 days of oil, but probably around 184 days of oil

Er, what?

# ? Mar 2, 2012 02:34

myron cope: Apr 21, 2009

PerniciousKnid posted:

Er, what?

I looked at that for a long time and finally decided that was max/min/probable amounts of oil. Maybe I'm wrong though.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 02:36

Buggalo: Mar 31, 2010

myron cope posted:

I looked at that for a long time and finally decided that was max/min/probable amounts of oil. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Pretty sure that's what he's going for.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 04:40

chesh: Apr 19, 2004; That was terrible.

In case you wanna go the image rebuttal route:

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 2, 2012 04:42

8bitAsplode: Sep 12, 2011

Xarthor posted:

My buddy James and me (green) are having a discussion that started with Breitbart but somehow found it's way to voter ID laws and welfare.

Anyhow, I think I've held my own pretty well but if someone could point me to a few resources on why voter ID laws are effectively poll taxes and why people aren't living the high life on welfare (along with any other points I've missed) I'd appreciate it.

By the way, James grew up in a wealthy suburb of a major U.S. city. If he sounds privileged and whiny about poor people, it's because I suspect he is. I'm trying to get him to see the other side.

It doesn't matter what the cost is, anything that forces you to pay for something you otherwise wouldn't in order to vote is a vote tax.

For reference, when vote taxes got banned, they were as low as 2 cents.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 05:11

chesh: Apr 19, 2004; That was terrible.

The larger issue with voter ID's is actually a simple record keeping error. NPR has been doing stories across the country on this for two years, and it's loving ridiculous the number of Americanss that simply do not have a birth certificate or a social security number. You're talking about primarily elderly or extremely rural people. Something as simple as a misspelling of a common name on "official" paperwork can literally gently caress you over for life.

It's late and my google-fu is weak, nut here's one report:

quote:

In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents.

If a state does have a person's birth certificate, they often must present a photo ID to obtain a copy. That can put an individual back at square one.

"People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID," says Elisabeth MacNamara, who heads the League of Women Voters.

MacNamara also notes that a birth certificate may not be sufficient documentation for women who changed their names after marrying. States require them to present their marriage licenses or divorce decrees.

....

When Thelma Mitchell, a retired state employee, learned that her old employee ID (which was issued by the state and included her photo) wouldn't meet Tennessee's new voter ID law, she went to a motor vehicle office to obtain a valid photo ID. The agency asked her for a birth certificate, but she didn't have one and was denied her request for a new ID.

Mitchell, 93, has never had a birth certificate. She wasn't born in a hospital and was delivered by a midwife, in Alabama in 1918. Birth certificates, particularly for African-Americans in the South, weren't regularly generated at the time. As a result, Mitchell may not be able to vote this year for the first time in decades.

...

Another obstacle for Tennessee seniors: The state doesn't put photos on the licenses of drivers over age 65. This practice affects some 30,000 people, according to voting rights advocates in the state.

...

Florence Hessing, Bayfield, Wis.

At age 96, Florence Hessing is disabled, rarely leaves her home and votes by absentee ballot. She has a driver's license that expired a few years ago. She wrote to the state asking the requirements for obtaining a new photo ID under the state's recently enacted voter ID law. The response she received outlined the requirements and included a $28 fee � which angered Hessing because she expected the ID to be free.

Hessing first had to come up with a birth certificate. She wrote to Iowa, where she was born, but the state had no official record.

"I think that's a shift if I can't vote," Hessing said in an interview. "It'd feel like I was thrown out."

Ruthelle Frank, Brokaw, Wis.

Like Hessing and Mitchell, Frank, 84, was denied in her application for a new voter ID because she lacked a birth certificate. She was born in Wisconsin, has lived in the same home for 83 years and never had need of the document.

"After I was married, we made several trips into Canada. I used my baptismal certificate to cross all the time," Frank said. "That's all I ever needed."

She called her county's registrar of deeds, to no avail. The state's vital records office managed to find her birth certificate, but there were other problems � both her parents' names were misspelled, rendering the document invalid.

"In order to get it corrected, I'd have to amend it. And it would cost $200," Frank said. "I decided I didn't want to spend $200 for the right to vote because I've always thought the right to vote was free. I don't think it's fair."

$200 to fix some bumfuck records is tantamount to a poll tax.

The figures I have seen range from 300,000 to 3.1 million Americans falling in to this gap.

chesh fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Mar 2, 2012

# ? Mar 2, 2012 06:36

ThePeteEffect: Jun 12, 2007; I'm just crackers about cheese!; Fun Shoe

chesh posted:

The larger issue with voter ID's is actually a simple record keeping error. NPR has been doing stories across the country on this for two years, and it's loving ridiculous the number of Americanss that simply do not have a birth certificate or a social security number. You're talking about primarily elderly or extremely rural people. Something as simple as a misspelling of a common name on "official" paperwork can literally gently caress you over for life.

It's late and my google-fu is weak, nut here's one report:

$200 to fix some bumfuck records is tantamount to a poll tax.

The figures I have seen range from 300,000 to 3.1 million Americans falling in to this gap.

Holy poo poo.

Do you have sources for the 300k or 3.1m figures?

# ? Mar 2, 2012 07:36

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

THE GAYEST POSTER posted:

ACORN had to, by law, register EVERYONE that came along. Even if a person wrote down that their name was "A Fry Guy" from "6969 Your Mother's Butt Way". By Law they would have to take that registration form and file it.

I also like to explain why that law exists. A republican group had been going around poor neighborhoods, helping likely voters with their registration paperwork and even offered to submit it for them. They then took all those registration forms and trashed them. Guess who got a big surprise on election day when they showed up to vote!

# ? Mar 2, 2012 08:35

Dr Christmas: Apr 24, 2010; Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

I also like to explain why that law exists. A republican group had been going around poor neighborhoods, helping likely voters with their registration paperwork and even offered to submit it for them. They then took all those registration forms and trashed them. Guess who got a big surprise on election day when they showed up to vote!

That organization still exists under a different name.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 08:52

Play: Apr 25, 2006; Strong stroll for a mangy stray

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

I also like to explain why that law exists. A republican group had been going around poor neighborhoods, helping likely voters with their registration paperwork and even offered to submit it for them. They then took all those registration forms and trashed them. Guess who got a big surprise on election day when they showed up to vote!

Wow I can't believe I've never heard of this! Could I get a link?

# ? Mar 2, 2012 12:48

Z-Magic: Feb 19, 2011; They talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs - it's the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.

Play posted:

Wow I can't believe I've never heard of this! Could I get a link?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/14/politics/main649380.shtml

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/nevada.registration/index.html

But then ACORN did the same (according to this article that is in no way completely made up)

http://biggovernment.com/pgeller/2009/10/07/acorn-throws-out-republican-voter-registrations/

Z-Magic fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Mar 2, 2012

# ? Mar 2, 2012 12:59

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

chesh posted:

The larger issue with voter ID's is actually a simple record keeping error. NPR has been doing stories across the country on this for two years, and it's loving ridiculous the number of Americanss that simply do not have a birth certificate or a social security number. You're talking about primarily elderly or extremely rural people. Something as simple as a misspelling of a common name on "official" paperwork can literally gently caress you over for life.

It's late and my google-fu is weak, nut here's one report:

$200 to fix some bumfuck records is tantamount to a poll tax.

The figures I have seen range from 300,000 to 3.1 million Americans falling in to this gap.

It would be sort of hilarious if the voter ID laws in certain states noticeably hit Republican voters harder than Democrats.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 13:22

Ortsacras: Feb 11, 2008; 12/17/00 Never Forget

I assume by this point you've all heard about this guy who got a crazy forwarded political email from his family!
(Though he thought it was deliciously funny and forwarded it along!)

quote:

(CNN) -- Montana's chief federal judge has offered his apologies for forwarding a racist e-mail aimed at President Barack Obama. The judge also initiated a judicial misconduct investigation against himself.
Liberal advocacy groups demanded that U.S. District Judge Richard Cebull resign.
Cebull, in an interview Wednesday with the Billings Gazette newspaper, offered his regrets for forwarding the e-mail, saying it was "a hard lesson to learn."
"To say it's inappropriate and stupid is an extreme understatement," Cebull said in courthouse chambers on Wednesday, according to the newspaper. "There is no doubt it's racist. It wasn't forwarded for that purpose. If anything, it was political."
The Billings-based judge was named to the bench by President George W. Bush in 2001. He has been chief judge since 2008, overseeing two other full-time district judges, three senior or part-time judges and five magistrates. His chambers did not return a call from CNN for comment.
Cebull did not write the offensive material, but admitted forwarding the February 20 message to a few friends after it was sent to him by his brother. The Great Falls Tribune newspaper was given a copy and reported the message went:
"Normally I don't send or forward a lot of these, but even by my standards, it was a bit touching. I want all of my friends to feel what I felt when I read this. Hope it touches your heart like it did mine.
"A little boy said to his mother, 'Mommy, how come I'm black and you're white?' His mother replied, 'Don't even go there Barack! From what I can remember about that party, you're lucky you don't bark!'"
Obama is of mixed race.
Cebull said in the interview his conduct in court over many years has shown he is not a racist, but he admitted the public got that impression from the e-mail. "And I don't blame them," he added.
The judge also separately told the Great Falls Tribune, "The only reason I can explain it to you is I am not a fan of our president, but this goes beyond not being a fan. I didn't send it as racist, although that's what it is. I sent it out because it's anti-Obama."
Cebull has initiated a process under which a judicial misconduct complaint will be filed and an investigation will start, court officials said.
"Cebull has publicly acknowledged that he has acted inappropriately," Appellate Court executive Cathy Catterson said in a statement. "Judge Cebull has initiated the process by which a complaint of judicial misconduct will be brought against him. The Judicial Council is expected to act expeditiously in investigating and resolving this matter."
Some legal organizations said the apology was not enough.
"If he has any respect for his office and for ideals of equality and human dignity on which our country was founded, Judge Cebull will step down today," said Bob Edgar, president and CEO of the left-leaning nonprofit Common Cause. "The message he has acknowledged circulating demonstrates a lack of judicial temperament that ought to disqualify him from further service."
It's rare and generally very difficult to force federal judges from office. They receive tenure, and the Constitution guarantees they can remain on the bench "during good behavior."
Standards warranting removal are not clear, beyond a violation of civil or criminal law. Congress would have to initiate impeachment proceedings, but the few judges to face that have usually resigned before those proceedings went far.
There is no indication the judge in Montana would be subjected to that.
Before being nominated by Bush, Cebull worked as a federal magistrate judge in Montana from 1998 to 2001.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 13:43

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# ? May 25, 2024 12:18

chesh: Apr 19, 2004; That was terrible.

ThePeteEffect posted:

Holy poo poo.

Do you have sources for the 300k or 3.1m figures?

Sorry, I may have conflated or confused numbers. It was late! In the linked NPR article is states that 3.2 million Americans have no form of photo ID, based on this study:

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012

Other articles discussing that study say that it's 5 million people who will be affected by the new voting laws. 5 million people who voted in 2008 will either have to jump through crazy hoops or be unable to vote in 2012.

The 300,000 figure was gleamed from this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x843658

But I can't find the original NPR link they are referring to.

# ? Mar 2, 2012 14:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

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