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Okay, do we have a raw version of the Sawtooth/Squarewave background? Because drat if that Squarewave isn't adorable. 
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Mar 2, 2012 16:12
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I just hope Dirk decides to plug in that window (because why not do it just to piss off uu) before heading to the roof 
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Mar 2, 2012 16:14
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Here you go.
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Mar 2, 2012 16:16
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If Dirk did plug in the window, would Mystery Pisces be able to exit with Roxy?
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Mar 2, 2012 16:31
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YggiDee posted:If Dirk did plug in the window, would Mystery Pisces be able to exit with Roxy? That's the sixty-four million dollar question, now isn't it?
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Mar 2, 2012 16:39
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I'm actually, based on this conversation, starting to lean more towards A1-Sufferer/Disciple with uu & UU respectively. He may be hostile, but uu seems more like someone who wants to rebel for rebellion's sake then someone who just wants to kill everyone. It would also explain some of the Sufferer symbols we've been seeing.
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Mar 2, 2012 17:17
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UU's horns (unless they're fake) don't match the Disciple's however.
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Mar 2, 2012 17:18
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I really don't think the UU and uu trolls have any connection with the ancestors and don't see any reason why I should believe that.
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Mar 2, 2012 17:26
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Midnight Raider posted:The worm thing is actually a minion of Typheus, John's Denizen. Basically all of the browser icons except for Haphaestus look like cartoon worm things, so maybe those are what they or at least their mooks look like in general. Oops, forgot about that. I guess I was distracted by the depiction of Yaldabaoth on Wikipedia, which basically looks like "king of the cartoon worm things."
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Mar 2, 2012 17:37
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Lady of the Beech posted:I really don't think the UU and uu trolls have any connection with the ancestors and don't see any reason why I should believe that. It's hardly a firm theory, sure, but consider: 1. We have seen a Kid Mindfang and Kid Condesce 2. This implies there are other kid ancestors including Kid Sufferer lurking around somewhere in the story 3. Kid Sufferer will presumably be very Karkat-like 4. We have already seen two (?) Karkat-like trolls so far This leaves us with A. Either UU or uu or both is Kid Sufferer B. The story will wind up juggling three trolls who all occupy a Karkat-esque role, in addition to the original Karkat C. Shenanigans Obviously, smart money is on shenanigans but I think A is a viable dark horse candidate.
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Mar 2, 2012 17:42
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Gabriel Pope posted:B. The story will wind up juggling three trolls who all occupy a Karkat-esque role, in addition to the original Karkat I think this is the best case scenario.
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Mar 2, 2012 17:58
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The A1 Sufferer probably wouldn't have been an angry hateful guy so much. A1 Alternia was a really nice place, remember. He wouldn't even have been the Sufferer - he had nothing to Suffer for. It sounds like they're on some post-game pre-exiles instance of Alternia, either A1 or A2. That might be too obvious though!
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Mar 2, 2012 18:09
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Walliard posted:The music. Yeah. I didn't really get into the comic until Descend. I'm actually kind of bummed that the album releases have slowed down.
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Mar 2, 2012 18:26
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YggiDee posted:If Dirk did plug in the window, would Mystery Pisces be able to exit with Roxy? She'd probably just melt.
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Mar 2, 2012 18:40
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I figured UU & uu were in universe C or later. The kids and trolls are the gods that created their universe (or the universe before their universe, or before that, or before that...) and they're distant, possibly ectobiological, descendants of the surviving trolls. Or Kanaya managed to recreate the Matriorb. UU referred to the kids as historical figures, so they're somewhere further down the timeline from their point of view. It seems like they're probably at least one universe removed though, it sounds like the God Tiers aren't actually around anymore in their universe.
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Mar 2, 2012 18:44
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TVs Ian posted:I figured UU & uu were in universe C or later. The kids and trolls are the gods that created their universe (or the universe before their universe, or before that, or before that...) and they're distant, possibly ectobiological, descendants of the surviving trolls. Or Kanaya managed to recreate the Matriorb. If the universes are arranged in a loop, then the kids could be legendary heroes to UU AND still have UU appear before than them in the timeline. Because in that scenario everything lies before everything else in the timeline. And oh god, I just now make the connection between UU/uu and "you you" as the names for the audience stand-in characters. 
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Mar 2, 2012 20:08
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Thundarr posted:If the universes are arranged in a loop, then the kids could be legendary heroes to UU AND still have UU appear before than them in the timeline. Because in that scenario everything lies before everything else in the timeline. Cross-universe timelines are iffy anyhow. The A2 trolls created the B1 kids universe but to get to that point they had been directly influenced by the B1 universe that they hadn't created yet. And, case in point, before Kanaya found out who Rose was she viewed tentacleTherapist as a legendary historical hero.
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Mar 2, 2012 20:18
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The Furthest Ring being outside the timeline of any universe and yet connected to them through the Incipispheres of the various games of Sburb is what throws everything off. Basically everything that has happened so far in the Furthest Ring with the Horrorterrors and the Green Sun and all that could and probably already has happened before any actual game of Sburb has been played from any of the universe's points of view.
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Mar 2, 2012 20:28
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Yes, and because so far we're only seeing dead A1 trolls in the Furthest Ring, they may not actually be dead "yet" and still have a part to play in life that we may witness later in this story.
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Mar 2, 2012 21:26
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Except they are lacking pupils, which has been a telltale sign for people who are dead.
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Mar 2, 2012 21:53
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Lord of Laughton posted:Except they are lacking pupils, which has been a telltale sign for people who are dead. She's not contesting that they're dead, simply that due to the fact that the Furthest Ring is removed from all time they may die later in the plot despite appearing dead there now. See also: Feferi showing up dead in Jade's dream before we actually saw her die.
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Mar 2, 2012 22:01
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SARSfest posted:The choice of Yaldabaoth is an interesting one. After a couple minutes of dumpster diving through the internet I found this little gem: So pretty much, the AR is Dirk's Denizen.
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Mar 2, 2012 22:47
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So I just realised UU's theme has Typheus' cry at ~0:40. Granted the theme was conceived much earlier than now, but then again the inclusion of in the song seems like a conscious choice.
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Mar 2, 2012 23:32
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Gabriel Pope posted:It's hardly a firm theory, sure, but consider: Consider also: 1. Nothing even approaching confirmation of who mystery scorpio and pisces are, since 7 out of 8 of them are dead 2. "Two-player session"
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Mar 2, 2012 23:38
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YF-23 posted:So I just realised UU's theme has Typheus' cry at ~0:40. Granted the theme was conceived much earlier than now, but then again the inclusion of in the song seems like a conscious choice. Radiation wasn't working with a full knowledge of even just the 12 troll characters when we was writing Alternia. Just listen to Keepers, which he pointed out as evidence of that. It is a conscious choice just through the fact that Hussie and Radiation are both big SNES nerds.
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Mar 3, 2012 00:34
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From uu we hear suggestions that the majority of the troll race is dead, possibly leaving just UU and uu (and we have no confirmation they're alive). From Doc Scratch, we know that A1 Alternia's twenty-four heroes of legend (twelve heroes who failed and their twelve ancestors) were spawned in a different session/universe than A1. (That summary, incidentally, is full of tendentiously vague foreshadowing.) Identifying what happened to them will surely involve a lot of communing with the dead; it's possible that the trolls on the meteor will encounter them before entering B2 (or, more probably, its session, come to think of it). In A1 Alternia, blood color wasn't something society was obsessed with, so there's not necessarily any significance to their use of gray text. It might be fruitful to see which of the troll blood colors we've seen have chroma matching that of UU (#929292) and uu (#323232). There are a few outstanding elements I've noticed in my reread.
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Mar 3, 2012 00:38
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Bongo Bill posted:There are a few outstanding elements I've noticed in my reread. Actually, the Bunnykind Specibus is what allowed John to wield Liv Tyler, and the Needlekind Specibus let him wield the needle that was used to Scratch the Beat Mesa.
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Mar 3, 2012 00:42
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Actually, the Bunnykind Specibus is what allowed John to wield Liv Tyler, and the Needlekind Specibus let him wield the needle that was used to Scratch the Beat Mesa. They have come up in the past, but the fact that they're still in his portfolio suggests that these Chekov's guns are still loaded. Rose having no specibus especially.
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Mar 3, 2012 00:50
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Bongo Bill posted:(given the comparatively small effect she had on B1, I consider it unlikely) Well, she did send Dave the Miracles video, which he sent to Gamzee, causing him to flip out and put a harlequin doll into John's dreams, which is why he scribbled clowns all over his walls, leading Dad to buy him the Harlequin doll that got prototyped, at which point the Black Queen started making Jack wear ridiculous outfits, but he resented it so much that he killed her and took the ring, rising to power and wrecking poo poo to such a degree that the kids were forced to Scratch their session and all the other stuff in Cascade. Moral of the story: ICP ruins universes.
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Mar 3, 2012 00:55
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Walliard posted:Well, she did send Dave the Miracles video, which he sent to Gamzee, causing him to flip out and put a harlequin doll into John's dreams, which is why he scribbled clowns all over his walls, leading Dad to buy him the Harlequin doll that got prototyped, at which point the Black Queen started making Jack wear ridiculous outfits, but he resented it so much that he killed her and took the ring, rising to power and wrecking poo poo to such a degree that the kids were forced to Scratch their session and all the other stuff in Cascade. That's quite subtle compared to what she's done to B2, but true, I had already forgotten about that incident. There's a lot of small details to keep track of.
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Mar 3, 2012 00:58
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Bongo Bill posted:Lil Cal is on the trolls' meteor station, about to enter his third universe, where Dirk will presumably encounter him for the first time. Not sure what you mean. Dirk already has an instance of Cal in his room - presumably one that landed with him like the inbound Cal landed with B1 Dirk. quote:It is unknown how the Alternian empress made it into B1 and B2, or whether those are the same empress (given the comparatively small effect she had on B1, I consider it unlikely). Yeah, that's a big one - Nannasprite did mention the Batterwitch's sudden disappearance, which is tempting to take as her just hopping over to the post-scratch timeline using a transmaterializer like the one Roxy was looking at earlier, or the one on Jake's island. It's hard to be sure exactly what her deal was in B1; maybe Nannasprite will fill in the details a little at some point since she's still around. Given enough uranium, there's room for her to jump back occasionally or send instructions for use of her not-Twitter account, I guess. quote:During the kids' session, Feferi interceded with the gods of the Furthest Ring to create the many dreambubbles that allowed dreamers to conveniently commune with the dead; it is unknown whether this is what's allowing all these spooky ghosts to appear in B2, or whether it signifies that Alternian royalty has some special empathy with horrorterrors. No idea about the spooky ghosts or the true horrorterrors, but Doc Scratch pretty much explicitly told us that a lot of the Condesce's grasp on power was built on Gl'bgolyb.
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Mar 3, 2012 01:03
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Bongo Bill posted:They have come up in the past, but the fact that they're still in his portfolio suggests that these Chekov's guns are still loaded. Rose having no specibus especially. "A Seer would support her allies in battle not with her weapons, but her vision. [...] A Seer would not charge into the fray headlong but direct it as a conductor with a baton."
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Mar 3, 2012 01:05
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:Not sure what you mean. Dirk already has an instance of Cal in his room - presumably one that landed with him like the inbound Cal landed with B1 Dirk. Ah, another one I had forgotten. Didn't start on Act 6 yet. Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:Yeah, that's a big one - Nannasprite did mention the Batterwitch's sudden disappearance, which is tempting to take as her just hopping over to the post-scratch timeline using a transmaterializer like the one Roxy was looking at earlier, or the one on Jake's island. It's hard to be sure exactly what her deal was in B1; maybe Nannasprite will fill in the details a little at some point since she's still around. Given enough uranium, there's room for her to jump back occasionally or send instructions for use of her not-Twitter account, I guess. She left her company to B1 Jake at some point in time, but we don't know exactly when that happened. Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:No idea about the spooky ghosts or the true horrorterrors, but Doc Scratch pretty much explicitly told us that a lot of the Condesce's grasp on power was built on Gl'bgolyb. The thing we don't know is whether that influence is limited to Gl'bgolyb or can be generalized to all horrorterrors, a la Vriska's mind control of trolls, Tavros' of monsters, Gamzee's chucklevoodoos, etc. Best to assume she can, which bodes ill for Roxy and Dirk. MrBims posted:"A Seer would support her allies in battle not with her weapons, but her vision. [...] A Seer would not charge into the fray headlong but direct it as a conductor with a baton." Needles are like conductor's batons, right? But yeah, that's probably it.
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Mar 3, 2012 01:12
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Bongo Bill posted:From Doc Scratch, we know that A1 Alternia's twenty-four heroes of legend (twelve heroes who failed and their twelve ancestors) were spawned in a different session/universe than A1. (That summary, incidentally, is full of tendentiously vague foreshadowing.) Identifying what happened to them will surely involve a lot of communing with the dead; it's possible that the trolls on the meteor will encounter them before entering B2 (or, more probably, its session, come to think of it). We kind of already know what happened in this instance, Karkat created the trolls and ancestors in their session in A2. It's one of the reasons A1 was screwed and had to Scratch their session. Because they needed to create the universe that would create the session that would create them and finish the stable time loops.
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Mar 3, 2012 01:13
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Weird thought: So we know that what players expect from a session is often not what they get. For example, most of the trolls assumed they'd be competing Red/Blue teams, and were a bit upset when it turned into one 12-player session. What do we know about the U's? UU/uu apparently think they're getting a 2-player session. uu seems to think this mostly because they're the last two people alive on the planet? UU was seen to have highblood-like horns. If the 'Dirk and Roxy are in the future' theory is true, it's possible to team up with people across the apocalypse divide. People are guessing UU/uu are one person, sorta like Gamzee's split personalities when he's sober. So what if...UU/uu are one person, and they're A1 Gamzee-Ancestor? They assume it's going to be a 2-player session, since they're the only ones alive, but they'll actually team up with a bunch of pre-meteor trolls to form the A1 12-troll session. The U's are our window into what happened in the A1 session session without having to introduce twelve more dead trolls. The flaw in this theory is that UU knows that there's four sessions (A1,A2,B1,B2) and that only B2 had any chance at success. You'd think she'd be a bit disheartened about being A1. But perhaps she doesn't know she's part of A1.
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Mar 3, 2012 01:15
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Bongo Bill posted:She left her company to B1 Jake at some point in time, but we don't know exactly when that happened. Yes - Nannasprite claims this happened as she was starting a family, which would definitely put it well before the ICP video incident even though the Egbert family situation is still very dubious. Which is another thing: we have basically no idea who Dad is except that he was at least functionally her son, whereas B2 Dad is John's son. Nannasprite said she'd become "betrothed to a fine, upstanding gentleman" but there's basically no evidence of this except her word and the existence of a son, which in a story so full of paradox clones is pretty much no evidence at all.
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Mar 3, 2012 01:19
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Robo Pope posted:We kind of already know what happened in this instance, Karkat created the trolls and ancestors in their session in A2. It's one of the reasons A1 was screwed and had to Scratch their session. Because they needed to create the universe that would create the session that would create them and finish the stable time loops. Karkat only created the A2 trolls. Even if they were genetically identical to the A1 trolls, the exact mechanics of the effect the Scratch has on preventing universes from being viable is not yet known. And at any rate, we don't know for sure in which universe the A1 trolls were created, other than that it's not B1. Conversations like this are the fun part of Homestuck. One of them, anyway.
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Mar 3, 2012 01:19
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Doesn't John also have Umbrellakind?
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Mar 3, 2012 01:20
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Slime posted:Doesn't John also have Umbrellakind? Good eye. I don't think that one's ever come up at all. It seems reasonable to assume that specibus was Dad's. So what's he allocated?
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Mar 3, 2012 01:23
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Bongo Bill posted:Karkat only created the A2 trolls. Even if they were genetically identical to the A1 trolls, the exact mechanics of the effect the Scratch has on preventing universes from being viable is not yet known. And at any rate, we don't know for sure in which universe the A1 trolls were created, other than that it's not B1. It was A2. Just like the current 4 kids were created not in their universe, but in B1. The trolls likely bifurcated during the meteor/reckoning bit to create the B2 trolls we know and the A1 trolls we havent met.
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Mar 3, 2012 01:24
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