The Best (Worst) Of Conservapedia

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quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

Binowru posted:

Apparently Conservapedia is still barking up the birther tree:

Wait, even in the crazy alternate universe where Obama really is a secret Muslim Kenyan socialist terrorist, why wouldn't the presidency fall to Biden when the truth came out?

# ? Mar 5, 2012 21:03

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 17:02

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

quiggy posted:

Wait, even in the crazy alternate universe where Obama really is a secret Muslim Kenyan socialist terrorist, why wouldn't the presidency fall to Biden when the truth came out?

It depends if the rule is 'the dude is out' or 'the election is void', if it's the former yea, if it's the latter VP is out too.

# ? Mar 5, 2012 21:12

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Electors vote for the Veep in a different ballot to the President, so constitutionally Biden would probably become president.

# ? Mar 5, 2012 22:03

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

TinTower posted:

Electors vote for the Veep in a different ballot to the President, so constitutionally Biden would probably become president.

Does that mean it's possible for the VP to be different from the person who ran with the President?

# ? Mar 5, 2012 22:14

C.C.C.P.: Aug 26, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

jojoinnit posted:

Does that mean it's possible for the VP to be different from the person who ran with the President?

If there were faithless electors on a massive scale that for some weird reason had a bone to pick with the VP choice, yes. But realistically? No.

# ? Mar 5, 2012 22:24

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

In 1836, 147 electors voted Van Buren/Johnson and 23 (the entire Virginia delegation) voted Van Buren/Smith. Because Van Buren had a majority of the electors, he was elected straight away, but the Veep election had to be thrown to the Senate because Johnson was one vote short. :eng101:

TinTower fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Mar 5, 2012

# ? Mar 5, 2012 22:34

Bruce Leroy: Jun 10, 2010

Binowru posted:

Apparently Conservapedia is still barking up the birther tree:

Are these people completely retarded?

Even if Obama was actually born in Kenya and the birth certificate he offered is inaccurate, he's still a natural born citizen and therefore eligible to be president simply by virtue of his biological mother being Stanley Ann Dunham, as per Section 8 of the US Code.

What is so hard for these people to understand?

I know they are doing this because they hate Obama, but it sure is weird to see all the insane logical leaps in direct contradiction with facts and the law that they make in order to get him removed from office, e.g. that "dual loyalties" crap about Obama Sr.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 00:36

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Bruce Leroy posted:

Are these people completely retarded?

Even if Obama was actually born in Kenya and the birth certificate he offered is inaccurate, he's still a natural born citizen and therefore eligible to be president simply by virtue of his biological mother being Stanley Ann Dunham, as per Section 8 of the US Code.

What is so hard for these people to understand?

I know they are doing this because they hate Obama, but it sure is weird to see all the insane logical leaps in direct contradiction with facts and the law that they make in order to get him removed from office, e.g. that "dual loyalties" crap about Obama Sr.

Don't you still have to be born on US soil or military base though? I was born a citizen but I was born in England, I don't think I could be eligible to be president just because my grandma is a citizen.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 00:45

Binowru: Feb 15, 2007; I never set out to be weird. It was always other people who called me weird.

U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 1 posted:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

You have to be born here in order to be President, or else we would probably have President Schwarzenegger by now.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 00:47

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Binowru posted:

You have to be born here in order to be President, or else we would probably have President Schwarzenegger by now.

"natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States" though? That would seem to read that as long as you're either born on US soil, or born to citizens you can be President as long as you're also at least 35 and have lived in the States for the past 14 years.

I've never actually read the Constitution before, so this bit is new to me.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 00:49

myron cope: Apr 21, 2009

The Constitution, in its great clarity, doesn't really define "natural born citizen"

I think the line in article 2 section 1 is meant to be taken as one thought: "or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution"

A citizen at the time of the adoption of the constitution. Otherwise nobody could have been eligible to be president for...35 years after it was ratified.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 00:59

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Binowru posted:

You have to be born here in order to be President, or else we would probably have President Schwarzenegger by now.

Arnold Schwarzenegger was born to an Austrian police chief and an Austrian woman. Neither of his parents were American, that's why he can't be President. Although, if his Austrian mother had given birth to him on a visit to the US, he would be eligible.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 01:05

FoiledAgain: May 6, 2007

Bruce Leroy posted:

Even if Obama was actually born in Kenya and the birth certificate he offered is inaccurate, he's still a natural born citizen and therefore eligible to be president simply by virtue of his biological mother being Stanley Ann Dunham, as per Section 8 of the US Code.

Could you clarify what this means (for a non-American reader)? I looked up the US code in wikipedia, and it says there is variable organization, but that Title is always the highest level and Section always the lowest. I want to look up "Section 8", but that's apparently meaningless information without also knowing (at least) which Title you're talking about.

edit: Wait, I see that Title 8 is about Nationality. Searching now...

FoiledAgain fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 6, 2012

# ? Mar 6, 2012 01:15

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

FoiledAgain posted:

Could you clarify what this means (for a non-American reader)? I looked up the US code in wikipedia, and it says there is variable organization, but that Title is always the highest level and Section always the lowest. I want to look up "Section 8", but that's apparently meaningless information without also knowing (at least) which Title you're talking about.

If you're:
1) Born on American territory, you're a natural born American citizen
2) Born on foreign soil, but at least one of your parents is American, you're a natural born American citizen.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 01:17

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Install Gentoo posted:

Arnold Schwarzenegger was born to an Austrian police chief and an Austrian woman. Neither of his parents were American, that's why he can't be President. Although, if his Austrian mother had given birth to him on a visit to the US, he would be eligible.

This is weird, to consider that a family can be proud Americans forever and yet if your mother goes into labour while on a day trip to Canada you're ineligible to be President.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 01:19

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

jojoinnit posted:

This is weird, to consider that a family can be proud Americans forever and yet if your mother goes into labour while on a day trip to Canada you're ineligible to be President.

Uh, that's not how it works. If you have one American citizen parent, you can be born anywhere and still be a natural born citizen. If your parents are from anywhere but you're born on US soil, you're a natural born American citizen.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 01:20

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Install Gentoo posted:

Uh, that's not how it works. If you have one American citizen parent, you can be born anywhere and still be a natural born citizen. If your parents are from anywhere but you're born on US soil, you're a natural born American citizen.

Oh, I'd always been told you had to be born on US soil. It does seem to be conventional wisdom, I remember 30 Rock did an episode recently where they were trying to rush back over the border from Canada so the baby would be born in America so she could be President.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 01:27

FoiledAgain: May 6, 2007

Install Gentoo posted:

If you're:
1) Born on American territory, you're a natural born American citizen
2) Born on foreign soil, but at least one of your parents is American, you're a natural born American citizen.

Found the relevant bit finally. You can apparently be born in Kenya and be President under some circumstances. If you fit the following you can count as born American (but I should also scream out IANAL so maybe I'm interpreting it wrong):

8 USC � 1401 posted:

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date

FoiledAgain fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Mar 6, 2012

# ? Mar 6, 2012 01:29

Bruce Leroy: Jun 10, 2010

FoiledAgain posted:

Could you clarify what this means (for a non-American reader)? I looked up the US code in wikipedia, and it says there is variable organization, but that Title is always the highest level and Section always the lowest. I want to look up "Section 8", but that's apparently meaningless information without also knowing (at least) which Title you're talking about.

edit: Wait, I see that Title 8 is about Nationality. Searching now...

Basically:

quote:

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

1==>Anyone born inside the United States *
2==>Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
3==>Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
4==>Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
5==>Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
6==>Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
7==>Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
8==>A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Obama is automatically a natural born citizen because he was born in Hawaii, a US state (provision 1), but even if he were actually born in Kenya, he'd also be a natural born citizen under provision 7, as his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham was also a natural born citizen, who was 18 years old and had lived nearly her entire life in the US up to that point.

Most birthers just ignore the US Code and just use the ambiguity of the Constitution to promote a definition of "natural born citizen" that allows them to exclude Barack Obama from being eligible as president, e.g. "Obama can't be president because his dad wasn't a US citizen when he was born and you need two American citizen parents to be a natural born citizen," "Obama can't be president because his dad was a British subject (Kenya being a British protectorate at the time of Obama's birth), which would give Obama dual citizenship and a president isn't allowed to have dual citizenship because it creates 'divided loyalties,'" etc.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 02:30

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Sweet, I can be president. I was born outside the US to a father who emigrated to the US at the age of 12 and lived there until he was 18 or so. Now I just need to live here for another 13 years by which time I'll be over 35 anyway.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 02:35

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Bruce Leroy posted:

Basically:

Obama is automatically a natural born citizen because he was born in Hawaii, a US state (provision 1), but even if he were actually born in Kenya, he'd also be a natural born citizen under provision 7, as his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham was also a natural born citizen, who was 18 years old and had lived nearly her entire life in the US up to that point.

Most birthers just ignore the US Code and just use the ambiguity of the Constitution to promote a definition of "natural born citizen" that allows them to exclude Barack Obama from being eligible as president, e.g. "Obama can't be president because his dad wasn't a US citizen when he was born and you need two American citizen parents to be a natural born citizen," "Obama can't be president because his dad was a British subject (Kenya being a British protectorate at the time of Obama's birth), which would give Obama dual citizenship and a president isn't allowed to have dual citizenship because it creates 'divided loyalties,'" etc.

Obama's mother was not in the US long enough before she left and gave birth to Obama in Kenya for him to be a citizen is another one.

e: None of this matters because the real reason Obama can't be president is because he's actually a bunch of cats in a coat.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 02:40

FoiledAgain: May 6, 2007

jojoinnit posted:

Sweet, I can be president. I was born outside the US to a father who emigrated to the US at the age of 12 and lived there until he was 18 or so. Now I just need to live here for another 13 years by which time I'll be over 35 anyway.

Expect Orly knocking at your door the day after you file, demanding to see your 100% American Birth Certificate (c).

vvv This is an important question

FoiledAgain fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 6, 2012

# ? Mar 6, 2012 02:49

myron cope: Apr 21, 2009

FoiledAgain posted:

Expect Orly knocking at your door the day after you file, demanding to see your 100% American Birth Certificate (c).

Well, hold on a second. jojoinnit are you white?

(let's not pretend this is anything else)

# ? Mar 6, 2012 02:54

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

myron cope posted:

Well, hold on a second. jojoinnit are you white?

(let's not pretend this is anything else)

White enough. And I know I have an American birth certificate, I was registered as an "American Born Abroad".

Bam. Vote for me in 2030 or so I guess.

Wait, I'm not Christian. Will that come up at any point?

# ? Mar 6, 2012 03:06

Lassitude: Oct 21, 2003

Before you can run you have to either check the Christian or Terrorist box on your Presidential application papers.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 03:18

OneEightHundred: Feb 28, 2008; Soon, we will be unstoppable!

Bruce Leroy posted:

Obama is automatically a natural born citizen because he was born in Hawaii, a US state (provision 1), but even if he were actually born in Kenya, he'd also be a natural born citizen under provision 7, as his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham was also a natural born citizen, who was 18 years old and had lived nearly her entire life in the US up to that point.

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. The US Code is subordinate to the constitution and Congress has the power to grant citizenship but does not have the power to redefine what "natural born citizen" means. I don't think the Supreme Court has ever bothered to define it either, though a minority in Dred Scott cited a pre-constitutional treatise defining it as a child born of two citizens.

The 14th Amendment overruled that, but only so far as granting "citizenship," not "natural born" status, and the Supreme Court has never explicitly overturned Dred Scott because the 14th Amendment made it a non-issue EXCEPT for the presidency.

And yes I do like the irony that they're trying to use Dred Scott to get Obama out of office.

OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Mar 6, 2012

# ? Mar 6, 2012 20:22

Grand Theft Autobot: Feb 28, 2008; I'm something of a fucking idiot myself

Bruce Leroy posted:

What is so hard for these people to understand?

They believe that all black people are born in Africa.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 20:37

Davethulhu: Aug 12, 2003; Morbid Hound

To reiterate somewhat, there are two "categories" of citizenship
1. Natural born - Citizen at birth
2. Naturalized - Citizen after some sort of naturalization procedure

A lot of birther shenanigans involve creating other categories - born in a foreign country, both parents not citizens, parents not married (seriously, I've seen an argument that Obama is ineligible because he's a bastard) - where someone is a citizen at birth, but not a "natural born citizen"

# ? Mar 6, 2012 20:48

SixPabst: Oct 24, 2006

I really, really like this:

quote:

PepsiCo ignores shareholders' concerns by using aborted baby kidneys for flavor enhancement, claiming �ordinary business operations.� Obama's SEC ruled in favor of Pepsico's use of Senomyx to test and produce artificial flavor enhancers. [9]

In case you're wondering what in the hell they're talking about, here's a clarification:

quote:

[HEK298 is] a cell line that started in the 1970s from human embryonic kidney cells. The line was cultured by scientist Alex Van der Eb in the early 1970s at his lab at the University of Leiden, Holland. Since then, the cell line has been cultured and grown in laboratories. It's primary use is as a protein or a protein vessel -- sort of a natural test tube. It's also pretty common and seems to be available at most laboratory supply companies and used by many R&D facilities.

Someone even called this out on the talk page:

quote:

So all of this seems to be a little extreme a reaction. Granted, human kidney cells from an aborted fetus were used to generate the cells used by Senomyx to conduct an experiment. But there are no kidney cells present in your soft drinks. No one is ingesting any kidney cells, and nobody is encouraging people to have abortions in order to harvest more kidney cells. I can understand why someone who is pro-life has an ethical problem indirectly endorsing abortion, but the portrayal of the issue is all wrong.--CamilleT

*crickets*

# ? Mar 6, 2012 21:05

Bruce Leroy: Jun 10, 2010

OneEightHundred posted:

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. The US Code is subordinate to the constitution and Congress has the power to grant citizenship but does not have the power to redefine what "natural born citizen" means. I don't think the Supreme Court has ever bothered to define it either, though a minority in Dred Scott cited a pre-constitutional treatise defining it as a child born of two citizens.

The 14th Amendment overruled that, but only so far as granting "citizenship," not "natural born" status, and the Supreme Court has never explicitly overturned Dred Scott because the 14th Amendment made it a non-issue EXCEPT for the presidency.

And yes I do like the irony that they're trying to use Dred Scott to get Obama out of office.

Congress absolutely does have the power to determine what a "natural born citizen" is by the power of determining how and where citizenship is conferred, and natural born citizenship is thereby determined by simply those who meet these conditions written into law by Congress and the president. This is why John McCain was not born an American citizen, by virtue of being born in the Panama Canal Zone, but was given retroactive natural born citizenship through an act of Congress.

Natural-born-citizen clause of the U.S. Constitution posted:

John McCain

John McCain (born 1936), who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and was the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station[49][67][68][69][70][71][72] in the Panama Canal Zone. McCain never released his birth certificate to the press or independent fact-checking organizations, but did show it to Washington Post reporter Michael Dobbs, who wrote "a senior official of the McCain campaign showed me a copy of [McCain's] birth certificate issued by the 'family hospital' in the Coco Solo submarine base".[69] A lawsuit filed by Fred Hollander in 2008 alleged that McCain was actually born in a civilian hospital in Colon City, Panama.[73][74] Dobbs wrote that in his autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, McCain wrote that he was born "in the Canal Zone" at the U.S. Naval Air Station in Coco Solo, which was under the command of his grandfather, John S. McCain Sr. "The senator's father, John S. McCain Jr., was an executive officer on a submarine, also based in Coco Solo. His mother, Roberta McCain, now 96, has vivid memories of lying in bed listening to raucous celebrations of her son's birth from the nearby officers' club. The birth was announced days later in the English-language Panamanian American newspaper."[75][76][77][78]

The former unincorporated territory of the Panama Canal Zone and its related military facilities were not regarded as United States territory at the time,[79] but 8 U.S.C. � 1403, which became law in 1937, retroactively conferred citizenship on individuals born within the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and on individuals born in the Republic of Panama on or after that date who had at least one U.S. citizen parent employed by the U.S. government or the Panama Railway Company; 8 U.S.C. � 1403 was cited in Judge Alsup's 2008 ruling, described below. A March 2008 paper by former Solicitor General Ted Olson and Harvard Law Professor Laurence H. Tribe opined that McCain was eligible for the Presidency.[80] In April 2008, the U.S. Senate approved a non-binding resolution recognizing McCain's status as a natural-born citizen.[81] In September 2008, U.S. District Judge William Alsup stated obiter in his ruling that it is "highly probable" that McCain is a natural-born citizen from birth by virtue of 8 U.S.C. � 1401, although he acknowledged the alternative possibility that McCain became a natural-born citizen retroactively, by way of 8 U.S.C. � 1403.[82]

These views have been criticized by Professor Chin, who argues that McCain was at birth a citizen of Panama and was only retroactively declared a born citizen under 8 U.S.C. � 1403, because at the time of his birth and with regard to the Canal Zone the Supreme Court's Insular Cases overruled the Naturalization Act of 1795, which would otherwise have declared McCain a U.S. citizen immediately at birth.[83] The U.S. State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual states that children born in the Panama Canal Zone at certain times became U.S. nationals without citizenship.[84] It also states in general that "it has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural-born citizen [�]".[85] In Rogers v. Bellei the Supreme Court only ruled that "children born abroad of Americans are not citizens within the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment", and didn't elaborate on the natural-born status.[86][87] Similarly, legal scholar Lawrence Solum concluded in an article on the natural born citizen clause that the question of McCain's eligibility could not be answered with certainty, and that it would depend on the particular approach of "constitutional construction".[88] The urban legend fact checking website Snopes.com has examined the matter and cites numerous experts. It considers the matter "undetermined".[89]

# ? Mar 7, 2012 03:53

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

mintskoal posted:

I really, really like this:

In case you're wondering what in the hell they're talking about, here's a clarification:

Someone even called this out on the talk page:

*crickets*

That's hilarious. I read the top quote and thought "Wow that troll is hilarious" and then realize it was serious.

# ? Mar 7, 2012 05:02

Parahexavoctal: Oct 10, 2004; I AM NOT BEING PAID TO CORRECT OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS! DONKEY!!

RagnarokAngel posted:

That's hilarious. I read the top quote and thought "Wow that troll is hilarious" and then realize it was serious.

Any bets on how long CamilleT's account lasts?

# ? Mar 7, 2012 05:22

Tills: Feb 9, 2010

Welp, had a look at the user page. She's atheist, GLBT friendly, and wants to make a page providing evidence for general relativity. Put me down for 5 Seconds after Andy or Conservative notice her.

Edit : Wow, she must have dirt on Andy. She's lasted almost a year, despite apparently linking to RationalWiki at some point and a few other infractions.

Tills fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Mar 7, 2012

# ? Mar 7, 2012 07:03

OneEightHundred: Feb 28, 2008; Soon, we will be unstoppable!

Bruce Leroy posted:

Congress absolutely does have the power to determine what a "natural born citizen" is by the power of determining how and where citizenship is conferred, and natural born citizenship is thereby determined by simply those who meet these conditions written into law by Congress and the president.

Why would it even mention a "natural-born citizen" requirement if the definition of that would be deferred to Congress? The power granted to Congress is "to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization," which is pretty plainly granting citizenship to people who are not already. Incidentally, the current statutes don't define "naturally born" and include a fluke scenario where you can be granted the same citizenship status even if you eventually find out that you were born to foreign parents on foreign soil.

It's not really a totally unjustified legal interpretation, it's REALLY untested because it only matters for the presidency and it's not even clear who would have standing to challenge it.

e: Actually if the birther suits are any indication, it CAN'T be challenged in court and his actions are still effective unless Congress impeaches him.

OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 7, 2012

# ? Mar 7, 2012 08:43

Feinne: Oct 9, 2007; When you fall, get right back up again.

"Natural Born Citizen" is never defined in the constitution but since English common law at the time was clear it meant that you were a citizen from birth and that's the basis of our laws except where specifically stated that it isn't there's no actual controversy among actual experts about this topic. You know, like all the other bullshit fake beliefs conservatives hold about complicated topics.

# ? Mar 7, 2012 17:50

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Bruce Leroy posted:

Congress absolutely does have the power to determine what a "natural born citizen" is by the power of determining how and where citizenship is conferred,

This is incorrect. Congress can expand who is a natural born citizen beyond the constitutional definition, but cannot restrict it. Congress would have no power to declare that people born in Texas were not natural-born citizens for example.

# ? Mar 8, 2012 23:18

Shbobdb: Dec 16, 2010; by Reene

Unless Texas seceded.

# ? Mar 9, 2012 00:06

peak debt: Mar 11, 2001; b& :(; Nap Ghost

Shbobdb posted:

Unless Texas seceded.

Texas cannot secede ( http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp ) without a change in the constitution either. Congress alone cannot approve that, you need to go through the whole amendment shenanigans.

# ? Mar 9, 2012 00:35

OneEightHundred: Feb 28, 2008; Soon, we will be unstoppable!

evilweasel posted:

Congress can expand who is a natural born citizen beyond the constitutional definition, but cannot restrict it.

Well, that's what I'm having a hard time finding evidence of. Congress has the power to "naturalize" citizens, but that might only grant them status as "naturalized," not "natural-born," so it seems like a definition that wouldn't be within their power to set.

# ? Mar 9, 2012 00:54

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 17:02

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

peak debt posted:

Texas cannot secede ( http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp ) without a change in the constitution either. Congress alone cannot approve that, you need to go through the whole amendment shenanigans.

There is no reason to expect you'd need to make an amendment to let any state leave. It is however generally considered that you'd need to get the majority of the congress and states to agree to any state leaving.

# ? Mar 9, 2012 01:00

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