Arglebargle III posted:

This is kind of sad because he's clearly operating from a very warped understanding of the issue. He keeps mentioning "free birth control" when in fact birth control is covered under many prescription drug benefits that employers buy for their employees all the time. The prescription drug insurance is part of her compensation package. It's not free at all, she worked for it. This was entirely uncontroversial until the Catholic Church threw a shitfit about one of the drugs covered under the package they are legally required to buy, and suddenly there was a debate, lines were drawn, and lots of people discovered they hate women and sex after all.

Just tell him your view of the situation clearly without any wishy-washy language, like


I have a hard time condemning the average people who've just been lied to so consistently for so long that they don't even know where the ideas coming out of their mouths originated.

Quabzor posted:

I don't know if this is the one you were looking for but these may be acceptable, I know the one you're thinking of though and will probably keep looking for a while


or

f#a# posted:

His response:

team overhead smash posted:

Oh god, googling for a Snopes link or something similar lead me to one of the worst sites I've ever seen.

http://www.fathersmanifesto.net
http://www.fathersmanifesto.net/pollblacks.htm

I hope this isn't old news because it has a ridiculous number of page views, but it is a whole mess of all different kinds of awful

team overhead smash posted:

jojoinnit posted:

Thanks to this thread I've gotten better at keeping up with political issues and I just finished a Facebook conversation with somebody who was defending Rush Limbaugh for calling Fluke a slut and saying liberal are hypocrites because Bill Maher was mean to Sarah Palin. If it copy and paste it here can I get feedback on how well I did and how correct I was? I have a lot of Republican friends who operate in an echo chamber and I'd love to challenge their beliefs. I assume it's over because he hasn't responded since the last time I shot him down (when he couldn't respond he redirected).

DarkHorse posted:

People in the thread were gracious enough to do it for me; while I can't speak for everyone, I'm willing to look over others' arguments.

Just got a friend urging people to vote for and defending the gay-bashing, God-gifted rape-baby, and possibly literal 6000 year old earth Santorum. Thankfully a bunch of other people jumped on him, both conservative and liberal, so he ducked out while he writes up a longer response. This should be entertaining

Loving Life Partner posted:

is this a 5-dimensional graph?

jojoinnit posted:

Will do when I get home from work. I thought we were done as he ignored me since my last post an hour ago, but he just came back to say "she didn't pay for it if she paid for a plan that does not offer birth control that's like going into a shop and buying item and demanding two".

Loving Life Partner posted:

is this a 5-dimensional graph?

jojoinnit posted:

So this conversation went really long and is actually still going on, but I screencapped and censored the first bit so if any kind goons want to do a lot of reading I'd appreciate knowing if my style is wrong or if my facts are wrong.

http://imgur.com/XeLDa

I just linked the image, because it'd be a whole page if I posted it.

DarkHorse posted:

A quick scan shows that you've done a pretty good job, in my opinion. You address his points, redirect the discussion when it starts wandering, are assertive without being combative, and provide sources for many of your points. While there are things that I, personally, would have done differently, you know the people involved better and probably targeted things properly.

It may be a good time for a summary of arguments thus far and a repetition of the salient facts.

jojoinnit posted:

Thanks! I don't actually know the guy at all, he's a friend of a friend and unfortunately when I refused to accept blogs as a source for birth control costing $9 a month things broke down and he started to rant about the biased liberal media.

Oh funny thing that I realised halfway through. I'm a Brit living in America. He's an American living where I grew up in England.

Basically we ended up here:



For anyone who didn't read the earlier bit. He started off with good spelling and grammar and he ended up like this. Hence my "broken" comment.

Dirty Job posted:

However, you should have backed up your final point about the cost Fluke spoke of. At the very least, you could argue that there are too many sources stating opposite points of view, and that since they're both biased the argument is moot. Because, really, the argument is moot. The price she stated, whether it's accurate or not, is completely irrelevant in regards to the rest of the issue. It doesn't matter if it's $3000 or $300, the fact is a religious institution is denying access to an otherwise legally-attained and paid for medication.

jojoinnit posted:

I did this, from the beginning and every time he brought it up. I was patient and polite. I learned people already know what they want to think and apparently work backwards from there.

Which makes me wonder if I'm broken that I don't seem to work like that.

Also, since when was the BBC considered "the liberal media"? I thought pretty much everyone respected the BBC.

jojoinnit posted:

NBC, et al., liberal media. Jeffery Immelt on Obama's Council for Economic Recovery. I discovered Mr Immelt is a registered Republican.

goku chewbacca posted:

What's an American conservative so far down the rabbit hole he thinks the AP and the BBC are leftist media, doing in the UK? Researching the class system and Victorian deference, hoping to resurrect it here? Cheerio, guv'nah.

You ever watch 30 Rock? Alec Baldwin's character is fantastic satire.

jojoinnit posted:

I did all that. Every single point. We're up to 138 comments between us now. I even tried to use his own sources to illustrate where he's reading into it wrong:

jojoinnit posted:

quote:

One thing I've noticed is that liberals don't feel the need to defend other liberals when they're being assholes,

goku chewbacca posted:

Real Time with Bill Maher is on a premium cable channel once per week at 10 or 11pm. Google "tv viewership" number show me it get a million viewers, or less than a Seinfeld rerun on a basic cable channel that same night.

Shasta Orange Soda posted:

It can be both things, you know. Maher and Rush can both be sexist assholes. There's some distinction between one picking on a public figure and the other picking on a private figure who made a very public appearance, but not nearly so much as to make the comparison invalid.


But that's exactly what you just did.


And look, so did you!

I don't think "Maher was only sexist in front of a million people" is a very compelling argument, either.

Shasta Orange Soda posted:

Maybe, but the differences are unimportant enough that you pointing them out comes off as an attempt to mimimize the problem and deflect criticism from Maher - i.e. defend him.

jojoinnit posted:

Are you really this bad at reading comprehension? I said what they said was terrible, both of them. I used the word terrible. Even the people I was talking didn't take it as me defending Maher, and if they could have read that into it they certainly would have called me out on it.

quote:

As an aside, what happened to your old avatar? I really liked it.

jojoinnit posted:

Also, since when was the BBC considered "the liberal media"? I thought pretty much everyone respected the BBC.

jojoinnit posted:

Although I still don't understand how people can hold positions that they didn't reason themselves into?

Mooseontheloose posted:

Maher did have his show pulled on ABC because people didn't like his comments about 9/11. So it's a completely false statement.

quote:

For those that don't know about

history... Here is a condensed version:


Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountainsduringthe summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.

The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:

1 . Liberals
2. Conservatives.

Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture.

Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sittingaround waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery.

That's how villages were formed.

Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to BBQ at night while they were drinking beer.

This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative movement...

Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly BBQ's and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing.

This was the beginning of the Liberal movement.

Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. They became known as girlie-men. Some note worthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided

Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass for obvious reasons.

Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi,
tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamersin Hollywood and group therapists are liberals.

Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat.

Liberals also make ice cream

Conservatives drink domestic beer, mostly Bud or Miller. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big game hunters, rodeo cowboys,lumberjacks,construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, engineers, corporate executives, athletes,members of the military, airline pilots and generally anyone who works productively.

Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living.

Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America .. They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing.

Here ends today's lesson in world history:

It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above before forwarding it.

A Conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be forwarded immediately to other true believers and to more liberals just to piss them off.

And there you have it. Let your

next action reveal your true self....

I'm going to have some red meat.

GraveyTrain posted:

This thread has gotten so long, I can't keep track. I think I *might* have seen this one in here or something similar, but because it was so obnoxious I had to bring it here. I wish you could see all the .gifs that were in the original -- it just adds to the smug. I can just imagine how clever conservatives feel when reading this.

This was from my brother who keeps sending me this junk even though I've asked him not to and who I always respond explaining how his forward is usually wrong, misleading, or both. So, I'm sure the last bit just makes his dumb grin get even wider.