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jesus Im reading the bioware ME3 spoiler forums, im not surprised by their reaction, but they are so overdramatic about it, honestly, I liked the ending, it wasnt perfect by any means, but seeing garrus and kaiden be killed right in front of me because of the reaper blast was IMO a great moment in which it had a lot of impact, Garrus who was basically my bro for years and kaiden who I thought deserved to see this war to the end by my side, just like old times, now dead. That had huge impact on me. Seeing basically everything I had come to love about the series basically die in front of me is something that I would rather see than have it be like ME1 and 2 which didnt feel as big or dire as 3 did. on a side note, banshees will forever scare the living poo poo out of me. I basically dont shoot and back off for like a good 5 seconds so that they attack my teammates first, the second they look at me? NOPE.AVI
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Mar 9, 2012 20:13
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I've had some more time to think about the ending The ultimate irony is that the Catalyst is an AI and is blabbering on about AIs revolting against their creators and destroying them. Why does Shepard even believe his nonsense? The Catalyst is blatantly a rogue AI. There should definitely be a giant "gently caress you" ending where Shepard gets the fleet to blow up the Citadel and therefore the Catalyst. I'm also disappointed that we didn't find out what was going on with the Keepers or what the deal with Haestrom was. How do I save Anderson? TIM makes me shoot him after I pick all Paragon options
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Mar 9, 2012 20:14
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I have the art book and have read lots of interviews. They aren't stupid and have given it a lot of thought. I believe they're smart, but this ending seems like it was a desperate patch-in. I don't think they ever quite figured out what to do. It's clear from earlier leaks that they've changed their minds regarding the Reapers' overall purpose and plan several times. animaCartographer posted:but seeing garrus and kaiden be killed right in front of me because of the reaper blast was IMO a great moment in which it had a lot of impact Ending spoiler I don't think this actually happened, don't they show up perfectly fine on the stranded Normandy? They did for me.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:15
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animaCartographer posted:jesus Im reading the bioware ME3 spoiler forums, im not surprised by their reaction, but they are so overdramatic about it, honestly, I liked the ending, it wasnt perfect by any means, but seeing garrus and kaiden be killed right in front of me because of the reaper blast was IMO a great moment in which it had a lot of impact, Garrus who was basically my bro for years and kaiden who I thought deserved to see this war to the end by my side, just like old times, now dead. That had huge impact on me. I don't think they died. If you have certain characters with you they will show up in the ending even if they were in your party for the run. I believe it's only mooks who die.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:15
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Just got to the Citadel and ran into a horribly voice acted reporter that looks like Snooki. I told her to take a hike but I except she'll be forced on me later based on how she's dressed.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:18
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Hezzy posted:I've had some more time to think about the ending I have to agree with the gently caress you, the reapers and catalyst told him the same thing, but because the AI child said it its ok? I think the closest thing to a gently caress you for that is blow up the thing, which I did, and I have no regrets about that choice.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:18
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I'm going to coin a new term right now. Effection. The gut-wrenching feeling, when witnessing the peak of perfection, you see an utter and complete fail cascade.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:18
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ImpAtom posted:Except you keep ignoring the fact that something else could happen that makes nuclear weapons a nonconcern. You're ignoring every possibility except "this bad thing will happen given infinite time,' even when that is demonstrably false. I don't know what you mean by "something else". The only "something else" that could happen is something that eliminates our capacity to ever have a nuclear war, and the only thing that could be is an end to the human race. Since this analogy is meant to illustrate why the Reapers are preventing organic races from creating synthetics, that's not very helpful. The Reapers must know the galaxy, hell the universe appears to exist on a finite time limit. Unless they had a plan for that too they're just trying to buy organic life as much time as they can by preventing what appears to them to be the earliest and most likely form of their extinguishment - the creation of synthetics. Similarly, in the real world it's true that we might get hit by an asteroid or all die of an ice age, and that'd prevent a nuclear war, but all that teaches us is "we'll destroy ourselves unless something else destroys us first." Try thinking of it like this - all things that begin must end. Organic life, then, must end, and if not from their own synthetics then from the heat death of the universe. The Reapers are just an answer to what they see as the earliest way organic life might end.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:19
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I have the art book and have read lots of interviews. They aren't stupid and have given it a lot of thought. My feeling was that the writer(s) were trying to reach beyond their collective ability, and in attempting to do something more "significant" than "Good guys win, bad guys lose, humanity prevails" wound up disconnecting the ending from the entire rest of the game. It's like they forgot that what connects the players to the story is the characters and relationships, which is frankly astounding given the bits like Garrus and Shepard going up to the top of the citadel, Tali getting shitfaced, Mordin's sacrifice, Thane's death, the entire scene before the last battle, etc.. I just don't understand how the team that wrote those scenes could have thought not showing us the fates of any of those relationships would be well received. And Jesus Christ if you're going to kill shepard and have the good guys win, the game should close on Chakwas enjoying the celebratory brandy by herself at a monument honoring the late commander, HOW DO YOU MAKE THESE SETUPS AND NOT USE THEM.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:20
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I have the art book and have read lots of interviews. They aren't stupid and have given it a lot of thought. For what it's worth, the ending almost worked for me. The visuals and the music were amazing. I had one of those conversations that is so haunting that I'll remember its tone and what happened around it longer than the words spoken. Yet, the ending seemed broken somehow. Or incomplete. A few more details, a few more clarifications, and I would have loved it. I think the ending was a disaster because BioWare failed to think through and address all the problems we see people in this thread having with it. Watching people tease out the implications here makes me realize that the only thing missing was a little more explanation. Don't let naysayers in this thread ruin the game for you! The ending took nothing away from me. Ryan-RB fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Mar 9, 2012 |
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Mar 9, 2012 20:22
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All you people arguing philosophy and probability are missing the giant-gently caress off problem that everyone else has with the ending: It does not make sense within the context of the narrative framework established through the other two games. Whether or not the endings are theoretically possible or not is totally irrelevant. THe huge, glaring issue is that through ME1 and ME2 the writers established a general, over-arching "theme" or "moral" for the series, and then in the third they completely changed it up and, in many ways, did a full 180 on what they had concentrated on earlier. The endings, regardless of whether or not the arguments made for them in-game make logical or sci-fi technobable sense, are complete non-sequeteurs when taken in context with the tone established by the other two games. For a franchise which went out of its way to give so many sloppy handjobs to fans who had stuck with it through the first two, this is a huge blunder. It would be like if at the end of Return of the Jedi, rather than using Vader's eventual fate as the ultimate edge-case to explore the themes of good/bad and redemption that formed the story telling core of the previous two movies, they shot off into left field and made it a cautionary tale about the military-industrial complex or pollution.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:24
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Romance Spoilers: I just told Ashley that "we'll see" when I saw them in Huerta Memorial after they first woke up. ("gently caress off, you dumb trust issue having motherfucker" wasn't a dialogue option) Do I get to shoot them now during the Udina coup? Do I HAVE to shoot them? Seriously, the poo poo they pulled on Horizon in ME2, and Mars in ME3, doesn't fly with Renegade Shep.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:27
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Cyrano4747 posted:All you people arguing philosophy and probability are missing the giant-gently caress off problem that everyone else has with the ending: Didn't miss that at all. Not here to talk about whether the endings were good, a bunch of people post that the Reapers' motivations don't make any internal logical sense and that their "organics wouldn't understand" thing is a brush-off, when the ironic truth is that they were exactly right that a lot of people don't seem to grasp what they're trying to accomplish when presented with it. At the very least, if they do grasp it, they don't believe it, which from the perspective of the Reapers (who do believe it) is the same as not really understanding it.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:27
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Cyrano4747 posted:All you people arguing philosophy and probability are missing the giant-gently caress off problem that everyone else has with the ending: Yeah, I think this is something I got off track with. Even if it made any sense at all, the endings are a thematic mess.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:27
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Dolash posted:I don't know what you mean by "something else". The only "something else" that could happen is something that eliminates our capacity to ever have a nuclear war, and the only thing that could be is an end to the human race. And none of that changes the fact that the ending of this game is incredibly unsatisfying by pretty much any standard.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:32
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Could anyone tell me if there's any War Assets on Thessia, and if so what's it called exactly? Or are the Quarian/Geth Fleets the last bit?
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Mar 9, 2012 20:34
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Wingless posted:Here is a link with a MASSIVE SPOILER AS WELL: Is that a serious thing in the game or just a joke easter egg? It really looks like something I'd fine on deviant art.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:34
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^^It's a real thing, only thing the image has wrong is it's related to the romance with her, not whether she kills herself.Symphoric posted:Or human life could evolve into something that is unaffected by physical trauma. Or the human population could move on from earth and become so splintered that it would become virtually impossible for a nuclear event to wipe them out, or... well, there is an infinite number of things that could happen, you just childishly cling to what favors your argument and are too narrow minded to consider any alternative. Nuclear war is really only meant as an allegory to what the Reapers were thinking. If you want to get into the nitty gritty details of whether there is some alternative where we don't wipe ourselves out, it's a pointless derail - if we move to other planets, maybe we come up with planet-buster bombs. If we evolve into some race of immortals, well... that's the scenario the Reapers didn't think was possible, and convincing them of it is what gives you the Synthesis ending choice, so don't put it on me, I'm just trying to make a point here about the Reapers' internal logic. Symphoric posted:And none of that changes the fact that the ending of this game is incredibly unsatisfying by pretty much any standard. No arguments here.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:35
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Internet Kraken posted:Is that a serious thing in the game or just a joke easter egg? It really looks like something I'd fine on deviant art. e: nm i'm an idiot, but yes, it's serious
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Mar 9, 2012 20:36
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Dolash posted:Didn't miss that at all. Not here to talk about whether the endings were good, a bunch of people post that the Reapers' motivations don't make any internal logical sense and that their "organics wouldn't understand" thing is a brush-off, when the ironic truth is that they were exactly right that a lot of people don't seem to grasp what they're trying to accomplish when presented with it. At the very least, if they do grasp it, they don't believe it, which from the perspective of the Reapers (who do believe it) is the same as not really understanding it. Except if the reapers had an understanding of modelling a stochastic process they would realize that the concept of inevitability is inappropriate and that their response is monstrous  You seem to be pointedly ignoring this fact in favor of a nihilistic approach that assumes no conflicting events will render the likelihood of synthetic genocide impossible or impossible given finite time.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:36
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Internet Kraken posted:Is that a serious thing in the game or just a joke easter egg? It really looks like something I'd fine on deviant art. A TON of art assets in video games are Photoshops/traces. It just happens that someone in the art team used something too easily Internet-traceable for the "importance" of the character they were doing.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:40
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The reapers would make sense as a solution to an Accelerando style universe where creating artificial life and then being essentially wiped out by it is an evolutionary dead-end that every organic society eventually falls into, leading to a universe that's essentially a stagnant ghost town, but even then they're an "We had to bomb the village to save it" solution.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:42
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tehllama posted:Except if the reapers had an understanding of modelling a stochastic process they would realize that the concept of inevitability is inappropriate and that their response is monstrous What fact? The Reapers assess the risk of synthetic life wiping out organic life as being real, and that although the amount of time available to the universe is technically limited by the heat death it functions as "to infinity" for their purposes. Since they cannot forsee any instance that would make this impossible except for their culling or the destruction of all organic life, they choose to cull advanced civilizations. Shepard's war convinces them that the culling will fail sooner or later for the same reason that the synthetics will eventually rise - that is, you'll get a cycle where they're just too strong and beat the Reapers, somewhere between now and infinity. They give you the chance to articulate their new solution to the problem, and if you do a good enough job you even open up the possibility of Synthesis as a permanent solution that removes the possibility of the synthetic rebellion from the future. How could the above not hold? How is it not logical for the Reapers to think as such? Shepard even wins along similar lines, since your victory is entirely founded on the idea that since the organic races have a real chance of defeating the Reapers, the Catalyst is forced to acknowledge that by the same logic it applied to synthetic rebellion, there will come a cycle when organic races avoid being culled. Meaning culling isn't going to work as a way to eliminate the possibility of synthetic rebellion. If you don't believe the above logic, how did you think you even won? Because Shepard captured the Reaper's flag or something? Darko posted:A TON of art assets in video games are Photoshops/traces. It just happens that someone in the art team used something too easily Internet-traceable for the "importance" of the character they were doing. I'd say it's more important that it's a terrible look for one of the main alien races of the galaxy. It was always pushing belief that the Asari are basically blue human women, sort of an in-joke and reference to 80's pulp sci-fi and 60's space adventure - it went with the film grain filter. The Quarians all basically being humans with two fingers instead of four (horribly done, by the way) is just embarrassingly lazy for an entire race, photoshop or not. Dolash fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Mar 9, 2012 |
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Mar 9, 2012 20:42
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So I just spent like 4 hours wondering why the save I downloaded from Annakie's site wouldn't be recognised in ME3. I just realised I've been putting the save file in the Mass Effect 3 save directory this whole time 
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Mar 9, 2012 20:44
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Instead of saying the reapers had a nihilistic view I like to think the reapers has observered the universe for so long every cycle has ended in organic genocide by synthetics that they had to step in. In the end reapers believed the only or curren t liable solution was to wipe out current intelligent race and allow the younger organics have a chance instead all die from sins of the others.
Your Rain fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Mar 9, 2012 |
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Mar 9, 2012 20:46
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Darko posted:A TON of art assets in video games are Photoshops/traces. It just happens that someone in the art team used something too easily Internet-traceable for the "importance" of the character they were doing. I know, I just think the character design is terrible. I guess it is what I expected but that's only becuase I was expecting the worst. Since I refuse to use Origin I've been reading all the spoilers in this thread. Glad to hear that most of the game is good, but I'm amazed they managed to screw up the ending so much.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:48
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This is only a spoiler of you haven't gone to the Citadel yet...just being on the safe side... The first time you go to the Citadel, there's an Asari who's freaking out and wants to be transferred someplace with no humans and is obsessing over getting a gun. Is this a reference to something else somewhere in the ME universe or just a random encounter?
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Mar 9, 2012 20:49
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Darko posted:A TON of art assets in video games are Photoshops/traces. It just happens that someone in the art team used something too easily Internet-traceable for the "importance" of the character they were doing. Now the thing that always confuses me about this is the fact that this is a major video game franchise, you can't tell me a friend or family member of the character designers wouldn't gladly model? Hell, I would have done it just for a free copy of the game. It's kind of like a discussion regarding Skyrim voice actors a friend and I had, I guarantee tons of people would have recorded dialogue to get a free copy just to be able to say they did it. She basically looks like Miranda minus some fingers
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Mar 9, 2012 20:49
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tadashi posted:The first time you go to the Citadel, there's an Asari who's freaking out and wants to be transferred someplace with no humans and is obsessing over getting a gun. Is this a reference to something else somewhere in the ME universe or just a random encounter? You'll get more of her story as you proceed through the game, come back a few times and you'll overhear more.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:50
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Dolash posted:I'm just trying to make a point here about the Reapers' internal logic. Why didn't they just wipe out organics entirely? Why does the cycle repeat on a strict timeframe? What would the reapers do if organics DID wipe themselves out in the years that they were dormant? Why do I have the feeling nobody at Bioware ever bothered to consider any of these questions? I think the game would have been infinitely more interesting if we had never gotten any insight into the mind of the Reapers at all. They should have remained completely and terrifyingly incomprehensible.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:52
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I restarted my guy last night, and figured out that I had been playing for hours and hours without taking equipment weight into account. So I had one of every gun type equipped and my power recharge time was like 250%. Ooops! I have to say, now that I can charge every 1.5 seconds the vanguard is way more fun. And seemingly invincible. It's all Charge -> Shotgun or nova -> charge again for shield regen and profit. Overall after 5-6 hours so far the game is fun, but even more streamlined than ME2. It really has almost no RPG elements at all now since they took away the non-combat skills. I think it's significantly closer to Gears of War than it is to ME1. Or, it would be if I ever had to use the cover mechanic.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:54
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So I'm about 10 hours in, taking back the citadel from cerberus and I crash every time the game tries to play a cutscene. I'm at the part where you enter the executor's office. And I only have the single save file. I looked through the thread and there don't seem to be any consistent fixes for stuff like this, do I really just have to start over at this point? edit: I did an origin "repair install" and it seems to have fixed it 
astr0man fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Mar 9, 2012 |
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Mar 9, 2012 20:54
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Symphoric posted:I think the game would have been infinitely more interesting if we had never gotten any insight into the mind of the Reapers at all. They should have remained completely and terrifyingly incomprehensible. The ending is moronic but this assumption is and always has been completely incorrect, and more of a symptom of the internet's gut instinct to instantly associate any Very Big Menace with Lovecraft. You can't build up a trilogy's antagonists on completely unknowable intentions and expect to maintain interest.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:54
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tehllama posted:Except if the reapers had an understanding of modelling a stochastic process they would realize that the concept of inevitability is inappropriate and that their response is monstrous No one here said the Reapers had the right solution. We're debating the logic that leads the Reapers to understand there's a problem that requires a solution.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:55
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Toriori posted:Now the thing that always confuses me about this is the fact that this is a major video game franchise, you can't tell me a friend or family member of the character designers wouldn't gladly model? This is the exact thing that I thought when I saw that side-by-side comparison. I mean really, somebody's cousin or girlfriend would probably love to model for it. Or hell, just get the VA to model if you're really short on ideas.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:55
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Mackers posted:So I just spent like 4 hours wondering why the save I downloaded from Annakie's site wouldn't be recognised in ME3. I really should make a "List of obvious reasons people might be having issues with their imports" somewhere. Message board, I guess. It still sounds like there might be reasons saves aren't importing for unexplained reasons but I bet at least 3/4ths of them are this, or they didn't do the folder structure right. And "WHAT? You mean I had to finish ME2 to import the save to ME3?"
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Mar 9, 2012 20:56
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nthalp posted:I'm going to coin a new term right now. Ain't it the drat truth?
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Mar 9, 2012 20:57
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Symphoric posted:But then you just end right back at the argument that the reapers are killing organics to keep them from killing themselves. Even if this logic was utterly compelling to the unknowable mind of a reaper, it's pretty nonsensical to the human mind, which is 100% of the people who play this game. Reaper logic (spoilers I guess?): http://imgur.com/o6jwP On another note, I am loving new Jack. she really cares about the Grissom kids. And she admits you had a good influence on her.  For all of the lovely, lovely overarching plot holes, retcons, and storylines (endings!!!  ), the individual characters and interactions in this game are mostly really well done.edit: VVV also yes the gameplay feels great, and the audio is maybe the best video game soundtrack I've heard? melon farmer fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 9, 2012 |
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Mar 9, 2012 20:58
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DMBFan23 posted:http://imgur.com/o6jwP 90% of the game is really well done from the combat, the war assets, the storyline until the end. It does a lot of things so good, but it makes me wonder if they had a few more months to work on a proper ending if it would have changed.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:59
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Symphoric posted:But then you just end right back at the argument that the reapers are killing organics to keep them from killing themselves. Even if this logic was utterly compelling to the unknowable mind of a reaper, it's pretty nonsensical to the human mind, which is 100% of the people who play this game. How do you not follow that killing SOME organics to save the rest (that is, the advanced ones from building synthetics that will destroy all organic life) is not nonsensical? It makes perfect sense, it's not even the failure point in logic the Reapers expect organics to fail at (that's at the part where they're asked to understand that given the lifespan of the universe it's almost certain that some organic race will make a synthetic race too powerful to stop that wants to scour organic life from the galaxy entirely). This is easily the worst misunderstanding to come out of ME3. They don't wipe out all organics because that's not what they were made to do by whomever made the first one. They're safeguarding organic life, as a whole, from itself. The cycle time-table is to ensure there are advanced races to cull but that they haven't grown so powerful as to defeat the Reapers. The idea is that considering how long it takes them to purge just the advanced races, no primitive race will be able to advance fast enough to create this galactic scourge stronger than the reapers that can purge life from every single planet in this time. Even if this were to happen, they left Sovereign behind to keep an eye on things. I agree it would've been better if it hadn't been examined, but that's because people just go ahead and misunderstand the Reapers, just like they knew people would, only now people misunderstand them in a way that makes them think they're badly written. Which they kind of are for other reasons, but their internal logic is sound.
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Mar 9, 2012 21:01
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