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HiddenReplaced posted:Don't worry, I'm 10k below Atlanta market, which is no where near 160k. If ATL paid NY market it would be more competitive than DC. The only two firms that pay above ATL market (start at 150k) are Jones Day and Paul Hastings, both of which are not exactly known for their sane hours. During a CB I had with another biglaw firm, an associate expressed horror/amusement at how much his wife -- Jones Day associate -- worked. PH has a good L&E group in Atlanta, buuuut I think they recently fired a few attorneys and aren't doing so well because they're trying to charge NY rates here. Bondurant counts too but lol they're not hiring anyone ever. edit: On top of that, market isn't really a thing in Atlanta because every firm slashed starting salaries -- or at least compressed the poo poo out of them. A&B, K&S, Sutherland, Troutman, Rogers and Hardin, and Kilpatrick are the only firms that pay market. SGR, Baker Donelson, Chamberlain, MMM etc. are all 10-25k below market. Omerta fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Mar 9, 2012 |
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Mar 9, 2012 17:32
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Skadden pays 2nd year students in Toronto $3100/wk.
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Mar 9, 2012 17:39
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Zaleov posted:I'm trying to get a handle of how work is broken down in the legal industry, and how much time you all spend working in different jobs. About how many hours a week do you spend working in the office? How much time working outside of the office? How much of your working hours is billable? Friday, 10 in office, none out of office Saturday/Sunday - maybe 5-6 billed hours total, about half in office, half at home. 80% of that works out to about 50 billed a week, so that sounds right. That's when I'm home. If I'm traveling, I am typically working all waking hours (that I'm not in the hotel bar).
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Mar 9, 2012 18:41
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Omerta posted:If ATL paid NY market it would be more competitive than DC. The only two firms that pay above ATL market (start at 150k) are Jones Day and Paul Hastings, both of which are not exactly known for their sane hours. During a CB I had with another biglaw firm, an associate expressed horror/amusement at how much his wife -- Jones Day associate -- worked. Yeah, the Atlanta Jones Day office destroys their associates. I've got a friend who was around 500 billables between Jan+Feb. I find it pretty funny that SGR/Baker/Chamberlain/MMM pay so poorly, because their hours are still lovely compared to mine. I kinda wonder if maybe my firm is unaware that all those firms slashed their pay...
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Mar 9, 2012 19:22
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oh, also. how much do you think a drug trafficking conviction from 2 yrs ago (marijuana) will effect my application.
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Mar 9, 2012 19:39
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nern posted:oh, also. how much do you think a drug trafficking conviction from 2 yrs ago (marijuana) will effect my application. In what state did you get the conviction?
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Mar 9, 2012 19:48
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nern posted:oh, also. how much do you think a drug trafficking conviction from 2 yrs ago (marijuana) will effect my application. you wrote a diversity statement about the conviction, I hope. what's with all these law schools trying to be elitist and remain felon free?
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Mar 9, 2012 20:02
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MEET ME BY DUCKS posted:you wrote a diversity statement about the conviction, I hope. what's with all these law schools trying to be elitist and remain felon free? Sometimes you need a criminal defense attorney, and sometimes you need a CRIMINAL defense attorney.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:43
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Apply to Tulane, they're giving scholarships to murderers from what I hear.
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Mar 9, 2012 20:43
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Harry posted:Sometimes you need a criminal defense attorney, and sometimes you need a CRIMINAL defense attorney. I quote this line all the time to my friends who are aiming for Public Defense jobs.
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Mar 9, 2012 21:18
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I'm 10 months out of law school and I have an OC (20+ years practice) so bad I'm embarrassed for him. What's the appropriate response? Fiesta Cat?
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Mar 9, 2012 21:50
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it was in kentucky, and it was a misdemeanor.
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Mar 9, 2012 22:31
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Don't rob nuns. Don't beat nuns. Don't rape nuns. Don't set nuns on fire. Don't do all of the above. 
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Mar 9, 2012 22:33
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Especially not if you're 110.
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Mar 9, 2012 22:40
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joat mon posted:Don't rob nuns. 22 years down, 1636 to go
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Mar 9, 2012 22:42
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Roger_Mudd posted:I'm 10 months out of law school and I have an OC (20+ years practice) so bad I'm embarrassed for him. Outside counsel? Opposing counsel? Offensive coordinator?
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Mar 9, 2012 22:48
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joat mon posted:Don't rob nuns. What is this?
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Mar 9, 2012 22:53
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Lilosh posted:I quote this line all the time to my friends who are aiming for Public Defense jobs.
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Mar 9, 2012 23:11
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nm posted:My office won't even hire people convicted of dui. Well yeah, if they couldn't even defend themselves successfully ... (pre-emptive edit: I know nobody represents themselves pro se. This was a joke)
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Mar 9, 2012 23:45
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HiddenReplaced posted:What is this? http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/pls/offlu zzyzx posted:Especially not if you're 110.  nern posted:it was in kentucky, and it was a misdemeanor. That's better. Trafficking means different things in different places. Around here, it's not trafficking unless you have more than 25 pounds of MJ. Buying a bag of MJ from a cop (I'm guessing it was something like that) will be easier to deal with on the character and fitness portion of a bar application. You should try to get it expunged when five years are up. (but you'll still need to explain it to your prospective bar) joat mon fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 10, 2012 |
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Mar 9, 2012 23:50
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joat mon posted:Good advice? Are they really giving out 2000 year sentences?
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Mar 10, 2012 00:08
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Are they really giving out 2000 year sentences? We have no sentencing guidelines other than the statutory range of punishment. (For the 20,750* years guy we're talking about, 'not less than 10 years' on each count) We have jury sentencing. If you go to trial, all counts run consecutive to each other. (It's only unconstitutional if the Judge admits on the record that the sentences are consecutive because you exercised your right to trial) How the sentence range is stated in statutes and jury instructions has changed, though. Where in the past, a range might be, 'not less than 10 years,' now it will say '10 years to life' instead. Now we have lots of consecutive life sentences. *not a typo.
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Mar 10, 2012 00:42
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gret posted:Outside counsel? Opposing counsel? Offensive coordinator? I thought OC is standard lawyer lingo for opposing counsel.
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Mar 10, 2012 03:06
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Satisfied lawyer checking in to repeat the OP's advice: If you aren't 100% certain about law school, do not go to law school. There are no jobs. It is a dead zone. You either need to be making all A's or all C's... meaning you either need to be a mutant freak genius who doesn't need to ask, or a mental patient/businessperson/heir to a firm who also doesn't need to ask. That means the middle 80% of law students are hosed. The job farming system is broken, and nothing is provided for you. I graduated and passed the bar in 2008, and fall into the C's category (mixed mental patient and businessperson). I started a solo bankruptcy practice, and I'm very happy with my career choice. But all of my friends except the straight A mutants have had severe employment issues, and many are not practicing law. I'd be happy to answer any questions about starting a solo practice, or bankruptcy work. I only exist because some one else held my hand, so I'm happy to pass along whatever practical advice I can. Many law firms are just a scam, so why not start your own?
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Mar 10, 2012 03:41
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woozle wuzzle posted:I'd be happy to answer any questions about starting a solo practice, or bankruptcy work. I only exist because some one else held my hand, so I'm happy to pass along whatever practical advice I can. Many law firms are just a scam, so why not start your own? Hey fellow solo bankruptcy practitioner! I've got a case where the guy is filing a personal and a corp 7. He is likely to owe the IRS on his 940 and 941 accounts. If I get him set up on a payment plan with the IRS, will the trustee void those transfers or does tax payment fall under the "normal course of business" exception? Thank you and I'll take my answer off air.
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Mar 10, 2012 03:44
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joat mon posted:We have jury sentencing. God, I can only imagine the incredibly chaotic effect this has on sentencing, or how this could be seen as a positive thing for any party involved in the criminal justice process. What state is this? prussian advisor fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Mar 10, 2012 |
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Mar 10, 2012 03:49
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Roger_Mudd posted:Hey fellow solo bankruptcy practitioner! We're the chosen people. And it's very strange to hear bad economic news with a grin... like "come on Greece, papa has a mortgage, come to papa!" (I'm new here, so I just discovered I don't have the private message thingy. I guess I should cough up $10... My non-legal-advice hypothetical answer is: here it'd work just fine no exception needed, it's a necessary monthly expense) woozle wuzzle fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Mar 10, 2012 |
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Mar 10, 2012 04:03
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woozle wuzzle posted:WooooOO! Awesome, that's what I thought too.
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Mar 10, 2012 04:18
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prussian advisor posted:God, I can only imagine the incredibly chaotic effect this has on sentencing, or how this could be seen as a positive thing for any party involved in the criminal justice process. What state is this? I know Texas does this. I wish Arizona did.
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Mar 10, 2012 04:38
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Anybody ever have to give a writing sample at an interview? I'm interviewing for a Legislative Analyst position at my state's General Assembly (basically just research/bill drafting for congresspeople) in a little over a week, and I have to show up an hour before the interview to write... something. They didn't really say what.
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Mar 10, 2012 04:48
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Mons Hubris posted:Anybody ever have to give a writing sample at an interview? I'm interviewing for a Legislative Analyst position at my state's General Assembly (basically just research/bill drafting for congresspeople) in a little over a week, and I have to show up an hour before the interview to write... something. They didn't really say what. That's pretty typical for legislative offices, actually. I've been asked to write something the day before, an hour before, and to make something up during the interview. Part of it is because your legal writing samples aren't useful for political writing (the skills transfer, the writing... doesn't). Part of it is because being able to write fast matters, a lot. Anyway, I'd bet you'll get asked to draft a one-pager (read a bill, draft a single page summary/selling points).
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Mar 10, 2012 05:43
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prussian advisor posted:God, I can only imagine the incredibly chaotic effect this has on sentencing, or how this could be seen as a positive thing for any party involved in the criminal justice process. What state is this? Oklahoma. There are about a half dozen jury sentencing states. Unlike Texas, we don't put on any aggravation/extenuation evidence in jury sentencing, unless it's a death case. I don't think TX has jury sentencing in death cases.
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Mar 10, 2012 05:45
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Kalman posted:That's pretty typical for legislative offices, actually. I've been asked to write something the day before, an hour before, and to make something up during the interview. Part of it is because your legal writing samples aren't useful for political writing (the skills transfer, the writing... doesn't). Part of it is because being able to write fast matters, a lot. Oh okay, cool. Thanks for the heads up on that. I've got pretty decent experience writing up summaries of our Food and Drug regs, but I've never had to do one in an hour. Any general tips on preparation? I usually outline first, but I feel like there may not be time with this, depending on the bill.
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Mar 10, 2012 06:39
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Roger_Mudd posted:I thought OC is standard lawyer lingo for opposing counsel. I'm but a lowly patent nerd. We don't like confrontation, like having to deal with opposing counsel.
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Mar 10, 2012 06:57
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Mons Hubris posted:Oh okay, cool. Thanks for the heads up on that. I've got pretty decent experience writing up summaries of our Food and Drug regs, but I've never had to do one in an hour. Any general tips on preparation? I usually outline first, but I feel like there may not be time with this, depending on the bill. PMed you some tips/links. I wouldn't worry too much - they're not going to give you anything super-complicated if they're only giving you an hour.
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Mar 10, 2012 07:46
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joat mon posted:Oklahoma. There are about a half dozen jury sentencing states. Unlike Texas, we don't put on any aggravation/extenuation evidence in jury sentencing, unless it's a death case. I don't think TX has jury sentencing in death cases. Does jury sentencing seem to result in lower sentences than judicial sentencing, or are the sentences just wildly different from one another (I'm tentatively assuming the latter?) Is it jury sentencing in all cases, or do the defendants opt for it like in Texas?
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Mar 10, 2012 14:30
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Mons Hubris posted:Anybody ever have to give a writing sample at an interview? I'm interviewing for a Legislative Analyst position at my state's General Assembly (basically just research/bill drafting for congresspeople) in a little over a week, and I have to show up an hour before the interview to write... something. They didn't really say what. I worked at a patent boutique where the interview process for more experienced hires included having them spend the whole day writing a response to an office action and then critiquing it at the end of the day.
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Mar 10, 2012 18:14
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Ani posted:I don't post that much in this thread anymore, but I'm a first-year associate at a biglaw firm in New York, practicing transactional law. A first year in my class billed 320+ hours _before_ the end of _February_, but he by far exceeded the norm. I really just wanted to post that number because it's astonishing to me. But I have extremely good hours due to the nature of the cases I'm on and the partners running those cases. At my firm, at least, the % of total worked time that's actually billed time is thankfully pretty high.
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Mar 10, 2012 19:56
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Meatbag Esq. posted:I worked at a patent boutique where the interview process for more experienced hires included having them spend the whole day writing a response to an office action and then critiquing it at the end of the day. I think that's relatively common with patent prosecution positions. At my previous firm, we had to write a specification for a simple mechanical device (a mechanical mousetrap) during the interview process. At my current firm, one of the partners likes to give candidates a set of features for an invention and ask them to write a sample independent claim.
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Mar 10, 2012 23:06
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A solo practitioner's hours could vary from zero to 80, but I probably average 30 hours a week. That's not billable, that's hours working. It changes depending on the season and workload, but I honestly average about 30 hours in the office/courthouse per week. I know dozens of solo practitioners around me, and they would probably be in the same 30-40 hours worked per week range. The reason is the $ per hour. Being solo allows for a much higher profit margin, so you can make a decent salary for less hours worked. Or you could work 60 hours and make a ton, I prefer a home life. The trade-off is sheer terror. You are literally paid a premium for terror, but I highly recommend it.
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Mar 11, 2012 00:39
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