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Phillip Kollar, the writer and associate editor for Game Informer, tweeted:Phillip Kollar posted:A tip to BioWare fans: Hating the Mass Effect 3 ending is fine. Explaining why you hate it is fine. Demanding a new ending? You're awful. So there you go, entitled nerds! Turns out you are all terrible.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Phillip Kollar, the writer and associate editor for Game Informer, tweeted:
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Mar 12, 2012 20:19
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If anyone wants to play some multiplayer send Xbox360 GT: Thunderfunk a message.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:21
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Here's the thing...we KNOW Bioware can do better with regards to the ending. And there IS precedent, "Fallout 3."
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Mar 12, 2012 20:21
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It's not so much that I feel I am entitled to the ending I want, just any ending that isn't 100% bs.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:21
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CobiWann posted:Here's the thing...we KNOW Bioware can do better with regards to the ending. And there IS precedent, "Fallout 3." I said it earlier in the thread, but the endings wouldn't be as bad if Mass Effect were only one game, but it's not. I don't think that people demanding the ending that they specifically want is being very realistic, but real endings with closure that take important choices into account aren't such a strange concept. After three games, five years, and well over $100, people deserve endings that don't salt the loving earth. That's bad form.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:27
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I don't think we should be going into this series believing certain things should be canon or not canon. After carrying my save file through the entire series and comparing some of the things I've seen to the things other people have seen I can safely say that what's canon is what you make of it. I view the standard saves as just polite suggestions that would have the highest appeal to players who aren't as invested as we are. They put at least a token effort into ensuring our personalized outcomes were taken into account. I think that might be why the endings are so terrible. They probably wanted to create a clean slate and not bother with all the potential outcomes we created through our actions. So, what better way to do that then turn the events of the last 3 games into a Schrodinger's cat scenario for the following games.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:28
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:While it may get me crucified here, I thought the Tali romance was handled pretty well. How is the Liara one a great deal better than any others (well any others that might be in your crew, I can see non-crewmates not working well)? At the very end, when Tali finished with "I wish we had more time" I got super sniffly. 
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Mar 12, 2012 20:28
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overdesigned posted:At the very end, when Tali finished with "I wish we had more time" I got super sniffly. Yeah, that part probably got to me more than most of the other conversations.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Phillip Kollar, the writer and associate editor for Game Informer, tweeted: It's true, though. A new/updated ending DLC is never in a million years going to happen. Making that demand of a writer or project lead or whatever is about as respectful as unzipping and pissing in his face. You're saying "That thing you spent five years designing and nurturing for five years by yourself, that nobody comprehends more intimately than you? I know better how it should be built than you do." For better or for worse, it's what we've got. In other news, can someone suggest an alternative shore party to taking EDI fembot and Liara? Having Singularity on a long-term party member is just incredibly OP and that other character complements her abilities perfectly. Neither of them can attack for poo poo, but they defense-strip and paralyze enemies so effectively that it just doesn't matter, nothing survives an Overload, Charge, and Nova, especially after a Singularity picks up whoever hasn't quite been put out of their misery. The DLC character has some nice dialogue but in battle he's all bark and no bite, his DoT attack takes way too long to be useful.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:41
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Mr Dog posted:It's true, though. A new/updated ending DLC is never in a million years going to happen. Making that demand of a writer or project lead or whatever is about as respectful as unzipping and pissing in his face. You're saying "That thing you spent five years designing and nurturing for five years by yourself, that nobody comprehends more intimately than you? I know better how it should be built than you do." For better or for worse, it's what we've got. What they gave us is about as respectful as unzipping and pissing in our faces, so...
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Mar 12, 2012 20:43
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Mr Dog posted:It's true, though. A new/updated ending DLC is never in a million years going to happen. Making that demand of a writer or project lead or whatever is about as respectful as unzipping and pissing in his face. You're saying "That thing you spent five years designing and nurturing for five years by yourself, that nobody comprehends more intimately than you? I know better how it should be built than you do." For better or for worse, it's what we've got. It's pretty clear that the endings weren't given a lot of thought. And the thing Bioware spent 7 years building and nurturing, the Mass Effect Universe, is essentially destroyed and, as another poster put it, the Earth salted.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:44
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Charlie Mopps posted:Game journalists arent worth poo poo and defend companies no matter what they do or produce? Shocking! Actually I just pointed out (I think it's a fair statement) that the flipside of Bioware's "If you care about the story and characters, buy this piece of DLC to enrich your experience" is "I care about the story and characters, please release DLC to make them matter again". Predictably, I got no response. Mr Dog posted:It's true, though. A new/updated ending DLC is never in a million years going to happen. Making that demand of a writer or project lead or whatever is about as respectful as unzipping and pissing in his face. When was the last time anyone talked about Matrix sequels? When was the last time George Lucas did anything worth a drat? The reality is that artists make mistakes, just like anyone else. The exciting thing about games is that you have the opportunity to patch them due to feedback. We've dealt with all the downsides of patching for a long time (buggy games "to be patched later", DLC), why not get something good out of the process for once? Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 12, 2012 |
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Mar 12, 2012 20:46
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Mr Dog posted:In other news, can someone suggest an alternative shore party to taking EDI fembot and Liara? Having Singularity on a long-term party member is just incredibly OP and that other character complements her abilities perfectly. Neither of them can attack for poo poo, but they defense-strip and paralyze enemies so effectively that it just doesn't matter, nothing survives an Overload, Charge, and Nova, especially after a Singularity picks up whoever hasn't quite been put out of their misery. The DLC character has some nice dialogue but in battle he's all bark and no bite, his DoT attack takes way too long to be useful. If you're just relying on your second for Overload, you could go with Garrus. He's got overload in addition to having useful combat abilities. But, yeah, that ended up being my team eventually, especially since I was playing soldier and could take down enemies with relative ease once their shields/barriers were down.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:48
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They produced a creative work in the form that they envisioned. You can appreciate for its merits or dislike it because it doesn't suit your taste, but you are owed no respect by its creator, nor do I see how a story that doesn't address you directly is disrespectful I understand how the ending might leave you with a sour taste in your mouth in light of the emotional attachment you've developed to the story's characters, but they're not YOUR characters, they are the writers' characters. I suppose a less vulgar analogy would be like lecturing a parent on how he/she should be raising his or her children. I hope you don't take offence to this post, by the way, I do not mean it as a personal attack. Just trying to present an alternative viewpoint.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:48
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The ending is a lot closer to five months old than five years old.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:49
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Mr Dog posted:They produced a creative work in the form that they envisioned. By the way, Mr Dog, this is horseshit. As a huge Mass Effect fan I'm familiar with the development process and I know how little they planned poo poo out. It's repeatedly admitted by their producer numerous times in art books, interviews, etc. that they had to make certain choices because they "didn't know what they would be doing" in the next game. The reality is, 4 months ago the game ending was completely different. This is not a single-author creative work, it is a video game where tons of compromises and iterations are made. Stop treating it like it's a Phillip K Dick novel. There's no artist to respect because this is the work of a team of people, many of whom I am sure hate the ending as much as we do. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 12, 2012 |
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Mar 12, 2012 20:52
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Mr Dog posted:They produced a creative work in the form that they envisioned. You can appreciate for its merits or dislike it because it doesn't suit your taste, but you are owed no respect by its creator, nor do I see how a story that doesn't address you directly is disrespectful The thing is that the ending was actually written by the team's new head, who didn't do any work on the previous two games. So from another viewpoint, this is more like someone stomping all over someone else's sandcastle and saying the mess of sand and footprints is way more appealing.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:53
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Mr Dog posted:It's true, though. A new/updated ending DLC is never in a million years going to happen. Making that demand of a writer or project lead or whatever is about as respectful as unzipping and pissing in his face. You're saying "That thing you spent five years designing and nurturing for five years by yourself, that nobody comprehends more intimately than you? I know better how it should be built than you do." For better or for worse, it's what we've got.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:53
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:
Yeah, we have actual proof of this. They didn't "envision" poo poo about the ending. They clearly changed it because of the leak, and made it worse. They were intimidated into a rushed hack-job. It is indefensible.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:55
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Mr Dog posted:They produced a creative work in the form that they envisioned. You can appreciate for its merits or dislike it because it doesn't suit your taste, but you are owed no respect by its creator, nor do I see how a story that doesn't address you directly is disrespectful There would be merit to that statement if Bioware hasn't outright lied to the consumer. With regards to the ending, they've made statements several times that the decisions you make in the previous games will impact the ending in ME3, and yet they don't. The only impact your decisions have is making it easier to get war material, which you don't even need to get any ending thanks to the Galatic Readiness. Even then, your effective military strength only determines which of a few endings you get and changes the actual ending in no way, shape, or form regardless of which you choose.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:55
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Mr Dog posted:They produced a creative work in the form that they envisioned. You can appreciate for its merits or dislike it because it doesn't suit your taste, but you are owed no respect by its creator, nor do I see how a story that doesn't address you directly is disrespectful I understand what you're getting at, but I don't think that people are upset with the literal content of the endings as much as they are about there only being pretty much one (lovely) ending for any combination of choices made. The ending would have been fine as one among several very different conclusions, but it's not. Also, I don't think this is the result of one person's vision. It stinks of committee decision.
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Mar 12, 2012 20:59
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Blue Raider posted:I understand what you're getting at, but I don't think that people are upset with the literal content of the endings as much as they are about there only being pretty much one (lovely) ending for any combination of choices made. The ending would have been fine as one among several very different conclusions, but it's not. Also, I don't think this is the result of one person's vision. It stinks of committee decision. It really felt underwhelming and disjointed from the rest of the story.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:00
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Some people on the Bioware forums have been digging through the files and are finding that large chunks of the ending are missing such as There being 4 different ways the charge up to the Crucible can turn out. One of which involves Anderson dragging you to the citadel, another where Anderson and Shepard charge together only for Anderson to be carried away by a Husk leaving you to charge in alone, and another where everyone dies and your squad is nowhere to be seen. There's also a bit involving Joker coming to save the day Dialogue for the last one is in the files and is recorded, so the rumored DLC about a rescue might be true.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:01
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Oxxidation posted:The thing is that the ending was actually written by the team's new head, who didn't do any work on the previous two games. So from another viewpoint, this is more like someone stomping all over someone else's sandcastle and saying the mess of sand and footprints is way more appealing. Uh, the lead writer on Mass Effect 3 is Mac Walters, who was a writer on ME1 and co-lead writer on Mass Effect 2. So, no, the lead writer was decidedly not someone who didn't work on the previous two games, unless you've got information that the ending was done by someone other than the game's lead writer.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:01
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DerDestroyer posted:It really felt underwhelming and disjointed from the rest of the story. That's true, but that's another argument. I think it would've made a fine Renegade ending.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:02
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Charlie Mopps posted:Its obvious Liara was meant to be the canon romance by Bioware. So much more attention went into it. I could see that for a 100% paragon Shepard--my philosophy was cooperation, altruism, the greater good, anti-racism, noble sacrifice. If Bioware views that Shepard as canon, they'd probably want him hooked up with an alien to make him an example. Liara was just the best of middling options for me at first, but she really paid off in ME3. I'm going to miss her character.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:By the way, Mr Dog, this is horseshit. As a huge Mass Effect fan I'm intimately familiar with the development process and I know how little they planned poo poo out. If you say so. I personally think the demand is disrespectful, but I wouldn't be surprised if the actual development team disagrees, in which case I've certainly got no right to speak for them. Given the constraints of big-budget development schedules, it could well be that they're not happy with how it turned out either, and they can present this petition as a mandate to their management to update the story so that it more closely matches their vision. thefncrow posted:If you're just relying on your second for Overload, you could go with Garrus. He's got overload in addition to having useful combat abilities. But, yeah, that ended up being my team eventually, especially since I was playing soldier and could take down enemies with relative ease once their shields/barriers were down. aack, this thread moves so fast. Yeah I think it just so happens that those two are the perfect match for a highly aggressive class like Vanguard. I mean, Garrus can shield-strip, but he can't incinerate. Tali can steal shields to stay alive, and she has a shotgun to put out more as well. It's just that the ability to strip both shields AND armor complements the ability to AoE stun undefended enemies really well. A different shore party probably works better for less aggressive classes like Adepts or Inflitrators, though in ME2 I had a go-to party for dealing with Collectors and Blood Pack, and a completely different shore party for dealing with Eclipse and Blue Suns. I guess the combination of Nova and Charge makes the Vanguard so powerful that the other classes feel gimped in comparison, though. Still, it's fun enough that I'm not going to complain, and I can probably still get some mileage out of a sniper-centric build in future plays. At least I'd get to actually pilot an Atlas for once instead of going all  on it.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:03
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is there a way to make scanning for artifacts less awful?
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Mar 12, 2012 21:04
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Trying to avoid spoilers but is losing all your 'readiness' rating a confirmed bug? I had basically 100% and now it's down to 0% despite having all the assets listed
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Mar 12, 2012 21:04
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If Liara was meant to be the canon romance, then someone on the writing team must really, really like Garrus. The scenes and conversations that make up that romance path, particularly the final one, are so well written that one almost forgets that one of the participants is an enormous silver space cricket.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:04
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Ryan-RB posted:I could see that for a 100% paragon Shepard--my philosophy was cooperation, altruism, the greater good, anti-racism, noble sacrifice. If Bioware views that Shepard as canon, they'd probably want him hooked up with an alien to make him an example. You make a good point. Liara definitely fits more for a Paragon Shepard, and I was playing Paragon as basically what you said. I think, in the end, it definitely comes out that Liara fits the most for a paragon, and perhaps the vermire survivor fits the most for a renegade or neutral character. I'm definitely going to miss Liara as a character too. I've never seen a romance in a game handled as well as hers was. That's not to say there isn't one out there, just that I haven't personally played it. And she was more than just there as a romance option too, she had a whole entire character that was not based around being a romance option, unlike in other games where a character clearly exists just to be a romance to the main character.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:07
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Mr Dog posted:aack, this thread moves so fast. Yeah I think it just so happens that those two are the perfect match for a highly aggressive class like Vanguard. I mean, Garrus can shield-strip, but he can't incinerate. Tali can steal shields to stay alive, and she has a shotgun to put out more as well. It's just that the ability to strip both shields AND armor complements the ability to AoE stun undefended enemies really well. Yeah, those two complement my class well, especially since I took Tali's shield steal ability as my extra slot. So, guy with shields or barriers? Overload and Energy Drain, plus Disruptor Ammo. Guy with armor? Incinerate and Warp, plus Incinerate Ammo. Guy without any protection? Incinerate ammo takes them down fast. Packs of guys get held up with Singularity, and strong individual guys get stopped with Stasis. thefncrow fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Mar 12, 2012 |
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Mar 12, 2012 21:08
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deletebeepbeepbeep posted:Trying to avoid spoilers but is losing all your 'readiness' rating a confirmed bug? I had basically 100% and now it's down to 0% despite having all the assets listed
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Mar 12, 2012 21:12
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deletebeepbeepbeep posted:Trying to avoid spoilers but is losing all your 'readiness' rating a confirmed bug? I had basically 100% and now it's down to 0% despite having all the assets listed Given that it's linked into an aggressively-pushed Multiplayer, it's probably some overzealous DRM backfiring.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:14
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Lotish posted:Yeah, we have actual proof of this. They didn't "envision" poo poo about the ending. They clearly changed it because of the leak, and made it worse. They were intimidated into a rushed hack-job. It is indefensible. Could you tell me (in spoiler tags if necessary) what the ending was in the leaked script?
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Mar 12, 2012 21:16
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Scorchy posted:Haha what a cool game and suddenly wow that last 5 minutes is loving poisonous to behold. I tried to prepare myself for it, I really did. I absolutely loved the entire game, kept telling myself "I don't care how bad the ending this, this owns!" But man, now that I've seen them all, I just don't know. It doesn't even make ANY loving SENSE AT ALL as to why Joker is running in the first place, everyone else just watches the reapers flee/be defeated, but for some reason Joker and the Normandy are the only ship in the universe who try to outrun the deus ex machina beam? Why??
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Mar 12, 2012 21:17
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richardfun posted:Could you tell me (in spoiler tags if necessary) what the ending was in the leaked script? Dark energy. Basically, the use of mass effect fields produces it, and it's slowly degrading the galaxy or something like that; Reapers harvest civilizations that have used the mass relays in the hopes of finding some perspective that will be able to figure out how to solve the problem. It's been done, but nowhere near as much as Frankenstein, which is what we got.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:21
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Aristobulus posted:Haha, I certainly understand that. And I mean, I'm not really qualified to talk on if Liara comes across as more or less canon than other romances, because I've only romanced Liara. I know a bit about the other romances, but it's just in what I've picked up from pieces told to me by people who did other romances. I finished my first playthrough with my original save from ME1 where I romanced Ashley, and I'm working on my second where I saved Kaiden and romanced Liara. Right from the loving get-go the relationship with Liara is handled so much better. For most of the beginning of the game, Ashley is flip-flopping between wanting to be all gooey with you and calling you out for working with Cerberus. After the midpoint of the game she basically becomes ME2 Zaeed/Kasumi with barely any interaction moments. Couple that with Ashley's VA sounding like she mailed one in and the complete lack of growth in Ash as a character and it just winds up boring as hell. The friendzone interactions with Liara made me wish I had romanced her instead.
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Mar 12, 2012 21:22
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Meeting Liara on Mars made me really happy with how they handled it. 
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Mar 12, 2012 21:23
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