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I'm just gonna leave this shot of Renly and Loras in here. Carry on.
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Mar 15, 2012 12:11
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I can't tell from that pic, did they fix Loras's goddamn hair to make it look not poo poo?
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Mar 15, 2012 12:14
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whowhatwhere posted:I can't tell from that pic, did they fix Loras's goddamn hair to make it look not poo poo?
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Mar 15, 2012 12:18
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Fairly new user here. I finished DwD a few months ago but just finished reading this thread today. Unlike a number of you I haven't been reading the books for years, I only just started after the first season ended on HBO. I loved the first three books. Really loved them. CoK was probably my favorite with SoS very close behind. A number of people warned me about FfC not being very good, so I was somewhat prepared for a boring read but I have to say I really enjoyed FfC as well. Jamie ignoring Cersei's cry for help at the end was one of my favorite moments in the series.  I expected DwD to be awesome and never heard anything negative about it from peers. (I didn't read any reviews online) and even without having to wait 6 years to read it I thoroughly disliked it. I pretty much agree with everyone here that the book was a pile of poo poo with the exception of the reek chapters which I thought were awesome. Anyway just thought I'd throw in my opinion I guess I'll enjoy spending
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Mar 15, 2012 14:54
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speeds posted:I pretty much agree with everyone here that the book was a pile of poo poo with the exception of the reek chapters which I thought were awesome. You didn't like the part where Pretty Pig bit Tyrion's nut-sack?
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Mar 15, 2012 16:21
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I honestly don't remember that part. I found Tyrion's chapters to be for the most part under whelming and a real step down from the previous books. Also not having Tyrion chapters in FfC made it even more disappointing that they were so bad when we did get them. I can only imagine how the people who waited 12 years felt.
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Mar 15, 2012 16:57
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speeds posted:I honestly don't remember that part. I found Tyrion's chapters to be for the most part under whelming and a real step down from the previous books. Also not having Tyrion chapters in FfC made it even more disappointing that they were so bad when we did get them. I can only imagine how the people who waited 6 years felt. If we only had the last two books the most popular characters would be the Greyjoy's and Martell's.
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Mar 15, 2012 17:12
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speeds posted:I honestly don't remember that part. I found Tyrion's chapters to be for the most part under whelming and a real step down from the previous books. Also not having Tyrion chapters in FfC made it even more disappointing that they were so bad when we did get them. I can only imagine how the people who waited 6 years felt. Technically 12 years when you recall that there were no Tyrion chapters all throughout AFFC.
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Mar 15, 2012 17:39
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jazz babies posted:I'm just gonna leave this shot of Renly and Loras in here. This looks like Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan about to geddit awn.
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Mar 15, 2012 18:06
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mind the walrus posted:Technically 12 years when you recall that there were no Tyrion chapters all throughout AFFC.  I'm so sorry.
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Mar 15, 2012 18:07
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Lid posted:The more she shat the more he drank. I just finished catching up on the series via audiobook, and I have to say, Roy Dotrice's commitment to these books in reading lines like this aloud with such seriousness is nothing short of astounding. So like speeds, I only recently got into the series myself, although I did it because I wanted to read the books before I saw the show. I definitely think AFFC is the weakest edition of the series, although I didn't actively "hate" it. It probably helps that I didn't have to wait years for it, only to find a book sans Tyrion and Jon Snow, though. DwD is a weird one for me. I actually don't mind the Mereen chapters so much, but I think a lot of that is in spite of Daenerys, which is disappointing for me because I've really liked her character up to this point. I'm really hoping Daario gets killed off soon because Dany pining over him is really getting loving old. But I did enjoy some of the Mereen chapters because Ser Barriston is a loving mack, and he's a great proxy for the reader in sussing out the political intrigues of the city. The fact that he's rediscovering his love of battle makes him doubly fun. Also someone had spoiled for me what happens to Quentyn Martell at the end, so that made his chapters really darkly funny to me. Haha, stupid destined hero. The Tyrion chapters were disappointing to me, too. I don't mind Penny, but Tyrion's at his best when he's steeped in court politics. He's a great cipher for all the backroom dealing that's going on in this series, largely because everyone overlooks him (no pun intended). I fully grasp that he can't go back to King's Landing after killing his father and being accused of killing Joffrey (which is easily the most welcome surprise I've come upon in this series, holy poo poo). But throwing him into such a different role after completely ignoring him in AFFC just doesn't work all that well. I couldn't possibly give less of a poo poo about his adventures riding Pretty Pig. Replace this poo poo with a bunch of chapters of Tyrion and Varys teaming up to create a massive crime syndicate/shadow government in King's Landing or something like that. That would be awesome. Speaking of Varys, triumphant loving return! I think he's the most underrated character in the series. There needs to be way more of him. I love the concept of him being one of the most feared men in Westeros, using lots of questionable methods, having an incredibly blithe attitude towards life and death...and yet somehow being the character who may be the most committed to the well-being of the Seven Kingdoms. True, a lot of that is because he seems to be motivated solely by political power, but it makes for a really weird, interesting character. Ironically, he may be one of the most trustworthy figures in King's Landing. Also there should be more Roose Bolton. I don't think I have to explain that too much. Anyway, looks like I'm going to get to join the lot of you in the tedious experience of waiting for GURM to come out with his next book. I hope we see some good payoff, in terms of battles and Tyrion being awesome again and Varys taking over the government and Jon Snow not dying (seriously, GURM, don't you loving dare). e: Oh yeah, and I'm enjoying Arya's transition into becoming a Faceless One, but I'm also a little disturbed at how dark this little girl's world is becoming. I know she's just a fictional character, but there's something about child soldier/assassin stories that strike a chord with me, especially when there's extensive reprogramming going on. I hope she manages to keep a piece of who she really is, eventually reclaim at least some of her innocence, and be reunited with some of her family. God help me, I'm invested in that lil' butcher. Majorian fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 15, 2012 |
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Mar 15, 2012 19:07
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Nilbop posted:This looks like Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan about to geddit awn. Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.
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Mar 15, 2012 19:29
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Yeah, the Tyrion chapters were incredibly disappointing. I was pretty pumped to finally find out what happened to the master schemer from the last books. He starts out by riding around in a carriage with a fat guy for far too long and longing to eat dirty rear end mushrooms out of his shoes. I wouldn't say it really went downhill from there, but it didn't get significantly better. Then we've got Danerys, where the series takes a turn toward teen romance but with suitors who are all dirty old men. And I'm pretty sure Arya won't be completely reprogrammed. I take this from her hiding Needle in the last book instead of throwing it away with the rest of her things. But then again, this book does show that Gurm has a talent for taking previously awesome characters and making them dull.
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Mar 15, 2012 19:37
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Scuzzywuffit posted:And I'm pretty sure Arya won't be completely reprogrammed. I take this from her hiding Needle in the last book instead of throwing it away with the rest of her things. But then again, this book does show that Gurm has a talent for taking previously awesome characters and making them dull.
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Mar 15, 2012 20:18
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Getting Varys' back story was pretty cool beans
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Mar 15, 2012 20:25
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Scuzzywuffit posted:Yeah, the Tyrion chapters were incredibly disappointing. I was pretty pumped to finally find out what happened to the master schemer from the last books. What? Tyrion? Master schemer? Sure, he enabled the victory at King's Landing, but the only people he outwitted pre-Dance were Lysa, Maester Pycelle, Cersei and Janos Slynt. Everyone else he managed a draw with at best.
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Mar 15, 2012 21:28
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whowhatwhere posted:What? Tyrion? Master schemer? Sure, he enabled the victory at King's Landing, but the only people he outwitted pre-Dance were Lysa, Maester Pycelle, Cersei and Janos Slynt. Everyone else he managed a draw with at best. How do you scheme to a draw?
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Mar 15, 2012 21:51
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whowhatwhere posted:What? Tyrion? Master schemer? Sure, he enabled the victory at King's Landing, but the only people he outwitted pre-Dance were Lysa, Maester Pycelle, Cersei and Janos Slynt. Everyone else he managed a draw with at best. He demonstrated some excellent scheming/planning throughout ACOK.
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Mar 15, 2012 22:13
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He outwitted Varys and Littlefinger when he was sending off Myrcella.
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Mar 15, 2012 22:43
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whowhatwhere posted:What? Tyrion? Master schemer? Sure, he enabled the victory at King's Landing, but the only people he outwitted pre-Dance were Lysa, Maester Pycelle, Cersei and Janos Slynt. Everyone else he managed a draw with at best. Pretty sure Tyrion is the main mastermind in the series (as we don't see much of Varys/Littlefinger/Ser Pounce)
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Mar 15, 2012 22:56
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Factor_VIII posted:I don't think she'll forget herself simply because she'd become irrelevant to the main plot. Since Faceless Men aren't allowed to kill people they know (at least when on the job), her story wouldn't be able to be reintgrated with that of her relatives unless she goes AWOL. If she doesn't go AWOL I'll be shocked. I mean, I'm just guessing that's the whole point of Arya's plot to become a badass faceless ninja assassin. She becomes a ninja, then comes back to King's Landing to slit the throats of everyone on her list. Otherwise what the gently caress is the point. Of course her story will never be resolved because GURM is a fat gently caress who doesn't know where the hell his series is going, even if he did start writing. Which he won't. Fucker. I keep waiting and waiting to see Arya kill everyone on her list and then make a new list. Possibly while riding her direwolf and screaming obscenities. 
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Mar 15, 2012 23:14
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I've already called it, GRRM is ultimately going to have half of the characters finding "resolution" halfway across the world in totally unrelated poo poo and Arya's story will be something like "I guess I don't need revenge after all" after she goes AWOL but is unable to really get back to Westeros and/or most of her list is dead and/or she discovers House Stark really doesn't exist anymore. Then when people complain about it there will be cries from GRRM and the Toadies about how it's about the journey and not the destination, and that we enjoyed the previous books and we weren't owed an ending, and that it's all about deconstructing the epic and other post-trauma rationale. I look forward to it.
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Mar 15, 2012 23:25
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I hope Arya kills Dany. One of the few characters she doesn't know.
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Mar 15, 2012 23:27
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empty sea posted:I keep waiting and waiting to see Arya kill everyone on her list and then make a new list. Possibly while riding her direwolf and screaming obscenities.  (I don't know why Sarah Jessica Parker is flying to the moon in this picture. Though I don't really see any reason why she shouldn't, either.)
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Mar 15, 2012 23:27
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That is a Smiler memorial.
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Mar 15, 2012 23:51
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Joramun posted:
the gently caress is that from? I wanna read the "girl on a wolf jumping through fire also HORSE" book
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Mar 15, 2012 23:58
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Nilbop posted:How do you scheme to a draw? At best his scheming didn't hurt their schemes. At best. At worst his attempts to outmaneuver them led to their elevation (Littlefinger/Harrenhal, for example) at his expense (letting Littlefinger get all the credit). VaultAggie posted:He outwitted Varys and Littlefinger when he was sending off Myrcella. No, he outwitted Pycelle. Varys and Littlefinger either already knew that he was playing them or figured that it wasn't worth trying to side with Cersei against Tyrion. Seriously, Tyrion had one real effect: the chain. That's pretty good, and it saved the Lannisters, but it was not an example of him as a masterful schemer. We're suffering from an inflated perception of his skills. The person he was consistently scheming against was Cersei. In ACoK, when we thought she was competent, that was pretty impressive. But, well, we've all read AFFC now, so we know how useless that is as a metric.
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Mar 16, 2012 00:30
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whowhatwhere posted:
There really isn't a metric when it comes to how much butter one scheme is than another. The series doesn't have a character whose schemes win every time as far as what has been written. The motives change the gold moves around but when it comes to how the poo poo falls... There is no winner until the series is finished (or GRRM dies).
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Mar 16, 2012 01:04
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There are no winners when GRRM dies. We all lose. Even if, for all intents and purposes, we have already lost.
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Mar 16, 2012 01:09
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Seanightjar posted:There really isn't a metric when it comes to how much butter one scheme is than another. The series doesn't have a character whose schemes win every time as far as what has been written. The motives change the gold moves around but when it comes to how the poo poo falls... There is no winner until the series is finished (or GRRM dies). Sure, but we can tell pretty clearly who's actually good, and who's just lucky. Littlefinger, Oleanna Tyrell and Varys are all acknowledged to be good. We want Tyrion to be good, but to be honest he's only danced circles around Cersei (who defines lucky rather than good), while not really getting in the way of anybody else. As soon as Littlefinger decided to screw with Tyrion, Joffrey's dead and Tyrion's taking the fall, without any idea what happened. Varys decides to gently caress with Tyrion, and suddenly Tyrion's whore is revealed and telling everyone just how horrible a human being Tyrion is. Tyrion decides to gently caress with Littlefinger, and Littlefinger becomes Lord of Harrenhal and is soon parlaying that into Protectorship of the Vale. There's no real power level or something, but Tyrion's pretty clearly not especially good at scheming. He's a good administrator, instead.
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Mar 16, 2012 01:13
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Joramun posted:
Cool, but not as cool as the ballbarian water skiing on two tigers with a skullcodpiece.
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Mar 16, 2012 05:24
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If the Gurm ever wrote a book (he won't) containing only Varys, Littlefinger, Tyrion and Jaime, I could die a happy man (I won't). I would really like to see more into these characters' minds more. Petyr started this whole drat thing, and I want to know why  .That said I liked most of the Tyrion chapters in ADwD, the ones on the boat. I especially liked the scene with the dudes jumping off the bridge, and I think it had some of the best imagery in the series. Oh well, I've got enough reading material on my Amazon wishlist to keep me busy for the next 32 years.
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Mar 16, 2012 06:04
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pakman posted:If the Gurm ever wrote a book (he won't) containing only Varys, Littlefinger, Tyrion and Jaime, I could die a happy man (I won't). I would really like to see more into these characters' minds more. Petyr started this whole drat thing, and I want to know why It seems like we're getting a look into Littlefinger's mind in the show, which is good considering Gurm said we're never getting a Varys/Littlefinger POV.
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Mar 16, 2012 06:06
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pakman posted:If the Gurm ever wrote a book (he won't) containing only Varys, Littlefinger, Tyrion and Jaime, I could die a happy man (I won't). I would really like to see more into these characters' minds more. Petyr started this whole drat thing, and I want to know why Do you really want to find out that all of Petyr's schemes to plunge Westeros into civil war were created to give him an opportunity to bone Sansa?
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Mar 16, 2012 06:10
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Factor_VIII posted:I don't know about that. I mean Mellisandre used to be mysterious and interesting because you could only guess what her agenda behind proclaiming Stannis to be the messiah when he obviously didn't fulfill any of the requirements. Only for her chapters to reveal that welp, she honestly thinks he is despite all the contrary evidence and is just playing things out by ear with no real underlying plan. Instead of a cunning manipulator with a hidden agenda she now seem to be a buffoon. touche... put like this there really aren't any super clever characters who are given POV's... Tyrion pretty much falls apart in Dance, Cersei falls apart in Feast, everyone is just sort of not that smart once you see what's going on in their head.
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Mar 16, 2012 06:12
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MMD3 posted:touche... put like this there really aren't any super clever characters who are given POV's... Tyrion pretty much falls apart in Dance, Cersei falls apart in Feast, everyone is just sort of not that smart once you see what's going on in their head. Except Tyrion always finds a way to make his situation better after setbacks or adversity. He figured out who Young Griff was and convinced him to invade Westeros, he did okay for himself on the slave ship and eventually joined up with the sellswords after being a slave.
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Mar 16, 2012 06:24
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TheManWithNoName posted:Except Tyrion always finds a way to make his situation better after setbacks or adversity. He figured out who Young Griff was and convinced him to invade Westeros, he did okay for himself on the slave ship and eventually joined up with the sellswords after being a slave. That's because Tyrion is Gurm's escapist POV who does everything Gurm wishes he could do like ask where whores go and ride pigs.
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Mar 16, 2012 06:26
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TheManWithNoName posted:Except Tyrion always finds a way to make his situation better after setbacks or adversity. He figured out who Young Griff was and convinced him to invade Westeros, he did okay for himself on the slave ship and eventually joined up with the sellswords after being a slave. Hired sellswords, not joined up with them. As for Littlefinger: his goals have never really been mysterious; it's always been about what's best for Littlefinger. What's more interesting is how rational an actor he is. Does he really want to rule everything, as the TV show has him say? Also him saying that to a whore he just hired was just jaw-droppingly stupid on the show's part. Why would he confide his deepest being in a potential spy?
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Mar 16, 2012 06:32
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Joramun posted:
Is this the Winds of Winter cover?
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Mar 16, 2012 09:25
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whowhatwhere posted:Hired sellswords, not joined up with them. Especially one that has ties to Winterfell.
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Mar 16, 2012 09:27
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