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pipes! posted:Yes, this. More and more, print design is becoming a specialized service delivered only as an offshoot of web work. You should definitely take the time to learn InDesign and the like, but learning the languages cheese eats mouse mentioned is imperative. I say this because I just recently started at a Web online store and my job hunt has mostly involved applications for Web design. There's also a bunch of older print designers who never bothered to learn Web that are out of work and will also be competing for those spots. We don't use any paper at work except for steno pads for doodling out ideas. Everything is done over e-mail and chat. There isn't even a printer since well why bother since everything is on a screen.
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Feb 28, 2012 18:03
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pipes! posted:Yes, this. More and more, print design is becoming a specialized service delivered only as an offshoot of web work. You should definitely take the time to learn InDesign and the like, but learning the languages cheese eats mouse mentioned is imperative. It depends, once you get above the "tiny jobs on craigslist" phase all you really need to know language-wise is HTML and CSS [which aren't even real languages, just markup syntax] because the people you'll be working with are going to inherit different platforms and requirements from their clients and there's going to be front-end developers to work with to do that stuff. I don't see any harm in dabbling in programming and at least learning how to work with a JS library like jquery but you should focus on being a good web designer which has very little to do with the actual technologies involved.
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Feb 28, 2012 20:10
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Can anyone recommend any decent art schools in the So Cal area? Once I assemble enough pieces together to make a halfway decent portfolio I plan to start applying and see where it gets me. The only problem is that I'm not entirely sure where to start. What are some of the more affordable options for a guy living on his own without parental backup cash-wise? Are there any schools I should actively avoid? I dont need a ton of info really. Just enough to start doing proper research. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! Oh! And are there any decent scholarships out there? I ask because loans may be an issue (I already have a BA in an unrelated field and for some reason getting a second is a colossal pain in the rear end when it comes to financing) Fake edit: It would probably be usefull to know that I plan to specialize in 2D illustration and/or character design. I'd also like to learn a bit of web development while I'm at it because illustration doesn't exactly pay well.
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Feb 28, 2012 20:44
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qirex posted:I don't see any harm in dabbling in programming and at least learning how to work with a JS library like jquery but you should focus on being a good web designer which has very little to do with the actual technologies involved. I agree. Being able to speak developer definitely helps, though. Especially in knowing what's possible, what isn't, and what is going to be a gigantic hassle to implement. Structural thinking is also a huge help for stuff like organizing your layers in Photoshop comps and the like. Plus, and this is personally speaking here, I think everyone should have at least a basic understanding of programming (especially if you're spending 8 hours a day on the computer). It'll help so much in your day-to-day interactions, and concepts like DRY also definitely transfer.
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Feb 28, 2012 21:25
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readingatwork posted:Can anyone recommend any decent art schools in the So Cal area? Once I assemble enough pieces together to make a halfway decent portfolio I plan to start applying and see where it gets me. The only problem is that I'm not entirely sure where to start. What are some of the more affordable options for a guy living on his own without parental backup cash-wise? Are there any schools I should actively avoid? You have student loan debt from a BA and you're getting a BFA in illustration? I'm hoping you've already really thought this out.
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Feb 28, 2012 22:25
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cheese eats mouse posted:You have student loan debt from a BA and you're getting a BFA in illustration? I'm currently gathering information on how this might work. So basically I'm mid "thinking things out" as we speak. That said this thing Im trying to do may not be totally impossible. For one thing my old debt is pretty much paid off. So I'm not doubling an old debt so much as I'm starting a new one. Another way I'm looking into doing this is, strangely enough, just skipping ahead to a masters program. Apparently the only thing you need to apply to many masters programs is just a BA in any given field. So it's theoretically possible that with the right portfolio I can just skip to grad work and in doing so reopen my acces to student loans and financial aid. Which is kind of screwy if you ask me but hey, in this hosed up system I'll take what I can get. In any case, Right now I'm just researching schools, looking at tuition rates, and seeing what kind of students they tend to want. I'll focus on money after I've assembled a portfolio that's worth a drat.
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Feb 28, 2012 23:40
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On the flip-side, I think even web designers should have a basic understanding of print design as well. As I have told my clients, it is always better to do your print work first then downsample the graphics for the web, then trying to make web graphics work for print. At my last full-time gig I was working at a place that would receive files from a client that a web designer created. Things as resolution, graphics and the like are a basic element which I have seen time and time again people do incorrectly. Trying to explain to certain web designers that although their logo that was designed in Photoshop appears two-color on screen, does not make it actually two-color for printing. I am kicking myself for not learning web and getting into that much much sooner. My first website I designed was back in 1996 w/ FrontPage, just because I was the Art Director at a newspaper and no one had a clue how to get things on the web. After that I did not touch anything remotely with the web until a few years after, mainly converting stuff I did for print for web. Only recently I learned HTML, CSS and just being knowledgeable of what are the current best practices, the trends and overall capabilities that are offered. There will be always a place for print designers, since you have packaging and other informational material that will always need to be done (until they develop replicators from Star Trek).
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Feb 29, 2012 04:56
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Saveron_01 posted:On the flip-side, I think even web designers should have a basic understanding of print design as well. As I have told my clients, it is always better to do your print work first then downsample the graphics for the web, then trying to make web graphics work for print. Weirdly, a lot of print stuff seems to be creeping its way back into web design. With retina Displays rumored to be rolling out for the iPad3 and new Apple laptops, knowledge of appropriate DPI is going to be huge. I've also met my fair share of designers who've started to do their web design in InDesign (using Photoshop for art asset creation), as it's far better suited to stuff like templating, managing styles, etc. Interesting times we live in.
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Feb 29, 2012 05:29
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I never thought about it that way, but it does make sense. As the tablet market ages, more people will want crisper, cleaner visuals also to take advantage of the increase of bandwidth available as well as the evolution of the raw processing power. Actually, I do all of my web design using InDesign/Illustrator/Photoshop currently (not a lot, but some), since back in the day, I was an avid QuarkXpress user, but the way those three work together so nicely, I find the only point I use Quark is when I freelance for some older designers who never want to learn the new apps available.
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Feb 29, 2012 06:18
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pipes! posted:Weirdly, a lot of print stuff seems to be creeping its way back into web design. With retina Displays rumored to be rolling out for the iPad3 and new Apple laptops, knowledge of appropriate DPI is going to be huge. I've also met my fair share of designers who've started to do their web design in InDesign (using Photoshop for art asset creation), as it's far better suited to stuff like templating, managing styles, etc. Interesting times we live in. I hope this trend continues. I pray for the day when I could design a whole web site in InDesign...
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Feb 29, 2012 18:28
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My money is on Adobe releasing a program that's specifically tailored to interactive design in the next couple of years. Not that it'd really be necessary, but the last couple of completely new applications they've released have been becoming more and more niched. And no, Fireworks doesn't count. :P
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Feb 29, 2012 21:24
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kedo posted:My money is on Adobe releasing a program that's specifically tailored to interactive design in the next couple of years. You mean like Adobe Muse? 
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Feb 29, 2012 21:46
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pipes! posted:You mean like Adobe Muse? Uh, I think he means Flash, the end-all/be-all of interactive design programs 
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Feb 29, 2012 22:28
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Good visual design is not web-specific, it's just rare online. TO me grids, typography, layouts, etc. are not "print," they're just "design." The problem is that it's taken design schools basically until now to start talking seriously about the web which is ridiculous. I blame Flash [for pretty much everything]. I'm just glad I now have more than 3 typeface choices now. kedo posted:My money is on Adobe releasing a program that's specifically tailored to interactive design in the next couple of years. qirex fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Feb 29, 2012 |
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Feb 29, 2012 22:30
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qirex posted:Good visual design is not web-specific, it's just rare online. TO me grids, typography, layouts, etc. are not "print," they're just "design." The problem is that it's taken design schools basically until now to start talking seriously about the web which is ridiculous. I blame Flash [for pretty much everything]. I actually can't understand why people are making such a big deal about the Mobile/Content First movement, as it is fundamentally preaching what makes for good design. I give no fucks about your exquisitely crafted gradient buttons if it's married to a site that's a pain to use. Design education is a whole other problem, since most of the people who are best suited to be teaching it are, you know, working full-time instead. The web also moves much, much faster than a traditional curriculum, so that's also definitely a hard target to hit. quote:I'm just glad I now have more than 3 typeface choices now. quote:This is what Flash Catalyst was supposed to be but that program is the punchline to a joke in the UI/UX industry
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Mar 1, 2012 02:22
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Question: I love teaching art things. I like making videos and tutorials and have had a lot of fun helping some people out with their art questions over the Internet. Is there a good way to do some kind of online art class for money? Like through Skype or something? Is this the kind of thing I could do without being Big Name Artist at Video Game Studio? I'd like to do it through SA-Mart and just teach goons.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:46
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neonnoodle posted:Question: I love teaching art things. I like making videos and tutorials and have had a lot of fun helping some people out with their art questions over the Internet. I'm hardly an expert but I don't think many people are willing to shell out money for this sort of thing without a big name attached to make it work. Artists are generally poor and there are way too many free alternatives that don't require the hastle of signing up. In fact I'm pretty sure the Art and Story podcast people tried this already and they actually had a decent following going in. Instead you may want to consider an ad revenue based approach where you provide lessons and critiques on a regular basis via ustream (and also hosted on your site after the fact) for free and make money off of donations and ad clicks. Sort of an educational TGWTG.
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Mar 1, 2012 18:12
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readingatwork posted:I'm hardly an expert but I don't think many people are willing to shell out money for this sort of thing without a big name attached to make it work. Artists are generally poor and there are way too many free alternatives that don't require the hastle of signing up. In fact I'm pretty sure the Art and Story podcast people tried this already and they actually had a decent following going in. Hmm, yeah, I know you're right about this. I have no idea how ad-revenue-supported business models work (or even that they do at all). Right now on my web site I have had success selling an automated version of my Photoshop watercolor brush kit for $20. Even though I explain in detail how to do it yourself for free, people who watch the tutorial videos still buy the kit.  I don't understand anything on the Internet.
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Mar 1, 2012 18:24
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pipes! posted:I actually can't understand why people are making such a big deal about the Mobile/Content First movement, as it is fundamentally preaching what makes for good design. I give no fucks about your exquisitely crafted gradient buttons if it's married to a site that's a pain to use. My latest annoyance is people here [big, giant, conservative finance company] heard the term "lean UX" and think it means "get more stuff for less money" and it's literally impossible for us to actually work in any kind of way like that. Kind of like when they heard about "agile" and thought it meant "I can deliver my requirements late."
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Mar 1, 2012 21:49
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Really interesting discussion the last several pages. It sort of leads into my post. I'd appreciate some advice - My situation: I graduated school in November 2009. I went to school for web design, but wound up only have extremely basic classes on dreamweaver (they mainly focused on photoshop). Regardless of that, I taught myself quite a bit and busted my rear end in school and landed a nice gig for a starting web guy. It was with a NASCAR/Motorsports team. I worked with a database engineer to build a brand new website for the company (i.e. this company sells about 1,700 pieces of manufacturing equipment), and also did all the other print design that they needed (i.e. catalogs, exc). I was hired away from them by another popular motorsports team, and have been there full time web guy (as well as other various managerial duties). I've been there since September 2010, and that's where I need some advice. I'm getting paid 16.00 an hour still, and being that this is a small company, raises are few and far between. I've hit the spot where I can't grow financially, and not much more creatively. I've been a one man band this whole time (save for some of the database work at my first company), and I'm at the point where I want to transition to an actual web firm to work with a team. Based on the sites I've built, I feel that I have a strong portfolio (and great networking) but at the same time....I'm not a very good coder. I know HTML/CSS of course, but much of it has been self taught by getting thrown into the fire on actual jobs. Am I better off at this stage of my career to try and go back to school to get necessary programming skills? Or....should I try and land a gig at a design firm, with the goal to further my skill set working with seasoned developers? I believe option 2 would be better for me, as I pickup stuff very fast, but I see that most firms in the area I live in all require detailed programming knowledge. Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks! ColonelJohnMatrix fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 1, 2012 |
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Mar 1, 2012 23:07
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Have you checked out lynda.com and just the internet for HTML/CSS stuff? I learned all my coding online from Google's Youtube videos. My Web class was a joke and horribly outdated.
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Mar 1, 2012 23:37
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neonnoodle posted:Hmm, yeah, I know you're right about this. I have no idea how ad-revenue-supported business models work (or even that they do at all). Ad based models are simple as hell in concept at least, though I don't have a whole lot of experience with the technology half of the equation. Basically your standard business model is that you develop a product and use the scarcity (they can only get it from you) and intrinsic value of said product to drive sales. In other words you put a wall between your audience and what they want and they have to pay you to get to the other side. On the web though, particularly when it comes to content like yours, this method seems to be very hit or miss. The big reason being that there is just SO MUCH available for free on the web that putting a wall between your product and your audience just causes them to say "gently caress it!" and go elsewhere (or just pirate your poo poo). The ad-based model (though I should really call it "free content" based) basically switches this around. You put the product out there for free and then once you generate an audience you can turn around and turn that good will into profit by selling ad space, books, special content, etc. Something Awful is actually a pretty good example of this since anyone can read and enjoy the forums in their near entirety for free, you only need to pay if you want to post or look at REALLY old stuff (or dick around with other people and such). I can't say how well it would work for what you're doing but I know it works pretty well for several webcomics I read as well as review sites like That Guy With the Glasses. I say give it a shot. Put the lessons and critique videos up for free and then offer to put someone at the front of the line for critiques for a small fee. At worst you'll gain some exposure and generate some pocket money. Plus I think a site like that would be fun to visit.
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Mar 2, 2012 03:07
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cheese eats mouse posted:Have you checked out lynda.com and just the internet for HTML/CSS stuff? I learned all my coding online from Google's Youtube videos. My Web class was a joke and horribly outdated. That is one thing I found out after taking courses at a couple different schools, that things can change so quickly, by the time they are incorporated into the classroom discussion that they are a few months old and there are better ways out there to accomplish a given task. Lynda.com has been pretty good on keeping up with the fast-paced evolution of the web, but also other sites like css-tricks.com and anything by James Williamson (he has done a bunch of lynda.com lessons), that at least you can be aware of what is current and what is coming down the road.
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Mar 2, 2012 04:45
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ColonelJohnMatrix posted:Really interesting discussion the last several pages. It sort of leads into my post. I'd appreciate some advice - Use the time you have while you still have this job to learn some new coding. Try opening up your own domain and build some practice sites in PHP/MySQL, ASP, Wordpress and HTML5. After that, slap those skills on your resume along with your sample sites and your degree should be enough to get you going. And if you don't feel you can learn all of that, just tell the company you're interviewing that you learn quickly on the job (as you mentioned previously). That was how I landed my full-time job as a web designer at a firm. I too only knew basic HTML/CSS and they wanted someone who could handle CMS sites. I told them I could learn quickly and thought they blew me off, but they liked my professional attitude and work ethic so they hired me. Now I'm familiar with PHP/MySQL, Wordpress, Sharepoint Designer, some VB and currently working on ASP. And this is coming from a guy who graduated with a degree in Media Arts and Animation (barely learned anything about HTML/CSS until I graduated).
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Mar 2, 2012 04:57
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FrostedButts posted:Use the time you have while you still have this job to learn some new coding. Try opening up your own domain and build some practice sites in PHP/MySQL, ASP, Wordpress and HTML5. After that, slap those skills on your resume along with your sample sites and your degree should be enough to get you going. Thank you for the input. It sounds like I'm in sort of a similar situation that you were. I forgot to add in my post that I've actually done several decent wordpress sites, but I really need to just dive into PHP/ASP.
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Mar 2, 2012 05:58
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Saveron_01 posted:That is one thing I found out after taking courses at a couple different schools, that things can change so quickly, by the time they are incorporated into the classroom discussion that they are a few months old and there are better ways out there to accomplish a given task. The awesome thing about Web coding is that developers want everyone to code correctly so they provide great information for free/next to nothing to those wanting to learn. It keeps people from using tables and <b> and <i> tags in their mark-up, which is a super old way of doing things, but I still come across it outside of an e-mail context. I'm working on a tabled site now and it's just driving me crazy, but I'm not getting paid to re-code everything so welp.
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Mar 2, 2012 16:50
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Want to work on something fairly high profile?
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Mar 2, 2012 17:00
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qirex posted:Want to work on something fairly high profile? Oh wow! That's the exact position I'm in now. I'm done with temping though.
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Mar 2, 2012 17:26
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JOB POSTING I'm looking to hire a part-time graphic designer, which could eventually turn full-time. The company I work for is growing and I need some help in the marketing department. Primary tasks will include image cleanup, client logo work (placing and positioning logos on items as mockups), and general other graphic design projects (ad formatting, POP material design, etc). We design and manufacture a product, so we constantly need new marketing materials to support our products. It's a great position, great working environment, and flexible hours. Position is in Watkinsville, Georgia, which is 10 minutes from Athens, GA and about 75 minutes East of Atlanta. Please PM me or email me (finchfan@gmail.com) if interested. Pay is $15.00 per hour, up to 20 hours per week (if you'll work, you can have 20 hours each and every week). Must work at least 10 hours per week. Can schedule work around school or other work.
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Mar 5, 2012 17:33
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For interviewing and working with new clients, I have been using my old trust portfolio with print samples to showcase my work. Recently, however, I was thinking that perhaps just getting a laptop and forgo physical print to just show them my portfolio digitally. Either from the hiring or searching people, what have you found has worked better for you?
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Mar 6, 2012 22:22
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If I was looking for work now I'd probably use my iPad for portfolio presentations with my website and print stuff as a backup. I'd always have a paper/offline backup even though I work exclusively on interactive stuff. There's nothing worse than wasting 30 minutes while some guy sets up all his stuff that doesn't work right and needs to borrow a VGA adaptor and oh whoops his battery is dying, etc. The burden is on you to have your stuff right and ready the instant you get there, otherwise you're pissing away the time of the people who you want to hire you.
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Mar 7, 2012 00:13
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Hrm, wonder if I can use an iPad purchase as a business expense to write it off on next year's taxes?
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Mar 7, 2012 01:09
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I have my portfolio on my iPad, I also bring it on a flash drive in case they want to put it up on a projector or something. I love using the iPad because if I decide to make any changes, I can do it on the computer and not pay a zillion dollars to get it printed for each revision (and avoid the dreaded post-print typo discovery). Question: I'm relatively new at freelancing, and so far most clients have come to me first for work done. However there's a local business that has horrific graphic design and I'm fairly certain it's hurting their business (personal experience: my boyfriend and I were going to go there for Valentine's Day and after looking at their website decided it looked way too unprofessional so we decided to go elsewhere). How do I word an email to them that basically says "your design sucks if you pay me I will fix it"?
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Mar 15, 2012 16:59
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:How do I word an email to them that basically says "your design sucks if you pay me I will fix it"?
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Mar 15, 2012 23:37
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qirex posted:I bet you wouldn't be the first person to say that to them, places with really terrible design usually have them for really good reasons, e.g. design by self/nepotism, the company is a horrible client or they just have really bad taste. Can't hurt to try, I guess. The worst that can happen is they say no. I'm 95% sure all their design work was done in Microsoft Word/Powerpoint and it's really, really awful.
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Mar 16, 2012 00:05
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Something that used to work was whomping up a design in advance and sending a note saying that you thought their website misrepresented the caliber of the food, professionalism of the salt shakers etc. and that it inspired you to have a go making a newer site. Send the link and request a meeting to see if they'd be interested in making it a reality. There's a chance that they'll rip you off but there's also a chance they'll appreciate the footwork. I always would compliment the layout saying it provided information (in case the owner was the designer) but noting that it didn't adequately reflect the professionalism/quality of the experience you had eating there, etc. NC Wyeth Death Cult fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Mar 16, 2012 |
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Mar 16, 2012 03:03
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:Can't hurt to try, I guess. The worst that can happen is they say no. I'm 95% sure all their design work was done in Microsoft Word/Powerpoint and it's really, really awful. Or, Frontpage...
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Mar 16, 2012 04:38
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NC Wyeth Death Cult posted:Something that used to work was whomping up a design in advance and sending a note saying that you thought their website misrepresented the caliber of the food, professionalism of the salt shakers etc. and that it inspired you to have a go making a newer site. Send the link and request a meeting to see if they'd be interested in making it a reality. There's a chance that they'll rip you off but there's also a chance they'll appreciate the footwork. It's a winery and their worst designs are their wine labels (Papyrus font slapped on top of an image likely stolen off google images), so I'm thinking of putting together one or two labels and going from there since just making one label won't be too much of a time sink if they decide they don't want to re-design them.
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Mar 16, 2012 06:06
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:It's a winery and their worst designs are their wine labels (Papyrus font slapped on top of an image likely stolen off google images), so I'm thinking of putting together one or two labels and going from there since just making one label won't be too much of a time sink if they decide they don't want to re-design them. That's a decent enough approach. Worst that happens is you then have a nice miscellaneous piece for your portfolio.
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Mar 16, 2012 14:42
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"Hope you do not mind, but I am building my portfolio of design pieces and one of my assignments is to reconstruct the look of a business in the area and would like to get your impression of this "reimagining" of your look." Worst situation, they hate it or don't respond at all. Best, they like it so much that they want to buy it from you.
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Mar 16, 2012 18:06
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