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ANIME AKBAR posted:Running a 3.6V LED from a 5V source isn't horrible. Just get a 2W resistor and it should be fine. It's a matter of ~72% efficiency vs ~90%. So you wouldn't save much energy with a switcher, but you would cut dissipation in the driver by a bit. But you'll still need a decent heatsink for the LED itself... so it really doesn't make sense to use a switcher here unless, again, you have some very specific reason (need really good regulation, or efficiency). http://imgur.com/0M3Ff Heat sinks are already in play. I've got 16 of these bad boys ready to light up our garden, and an arduino uno to make them dance. Thanks for the help. This thread always has great answers. JesusDoesVegas fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 14, 2012 |
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Mar 14, 2012 18:35
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There is nothing horribly wrong with using one of your inner plane layers (4-layer board) as a split plane for a bunch of voltages, is there? I have 3.3, 5 and 12. (other plane layer is GND; 1mm separation between different polygons on the layer in question) I also don't have very many parts on the bottom layer, so I'll likely drop a huge GND and/or 12V polygon there.
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Mar 14, 2012 19:17
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It is fine as far as I know, it has worked out fine for me before. I've used star topology power distribution on an inner layer (plus some on the bottom layer) on my last couple boards, instead of split planes. Much easier to layout than a bunch of weirdly shaped polygons. The star can end at a small polygon under component groups that share the same power.
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Mar 14, 2012 19:54
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taqueso posted:It would really help if you told us what you are planning to do. I wish I could. I'm in the middle of working with a patent lawyer and putting these devices together is a big part of the whole deal. The chances of someone here bothering to repost anything about it or of any of this mattering at all is tiny, but I'm burning up a 401k in legal fees and I don't want the idea posted on someone's blog invalidating my patent. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, it's just that a lot of good people are putting in a lot of time on this thing for the teeny tiny chance we'll make a buck some day, and I don't want to say or do something dumb that ruins it(I understand patent law even less than I understand electronics).
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Mar 14, 2012 23:16
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Can you tell us how much current you need on each power rail? vvv Seems to work out for me quite a bit if taken with plenty of grains of salt and some independent reading. Not that I've got investors hounding me about patents or anything. taqueso fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Mar 15, 2012 |
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Mar 15, 2012 00:18
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bobua posted:I wish I could. I'm in the middle of working with a patent lawyer and putting these devices together is a big part of the whole deal. The chances of someone here bothering to repost anything about it or of any of this mattering at all is tiny, but I'm burning up a 401k in legal fees and I don't want the idea posted on someone's blog invalidating my patent. Just FYI "I heard it on the SA forums" is probably not the right way to gain professional knowledge.
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Mar 15, 2012 00:30
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bobua posted:I wish I could. I'm in the middle of working with a patent lawyer and putting these devices together is a big part of the whole deal. The chances of someone here bothering to repost anything about it or of any of this mattering at all is tiny, but I'm burning up a 401k in legal fees and I don't want the idea posted on someone's blog invalidating my patent. Don't want to be a dick, but sounds like you should have some other EEs on the project you can certainly ask if you're worried about the idea(s) being stolen? Personally, I am all for sharing what I know and have learned, NDA permitting. The more info that's out publicly vs. stored in corporate databanks (practically speaking of course), the better. e: if you're really worried and really need the assistance, you could PM a few posters and have them sign a NDA.
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Mar 15, 2012 01:28
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bobua posted:I wish I could. I'm in the middle of working with a patent lawyer and putting these devices together is a big part of the whole deal. The chances of someone here bothering to repost anything about it or of any of this mattering at all is tiny, but I'm burning up a 401k in legal fees and I don't want the idea posted on someone's blog invalidating my patent. I don't understand what the big loving deal is. This is the "I have the best idea for a {website/iphoneapp/video game} but I can't tell you what it is because it's a totally unique million dollar idea" effect all over again. Look, give us the power specs and we can help you design something. Don't give us the power specs, and we can't help you design something. Telling us about your fancy lawyers just makes it sound like you like to waste money (noone I know who has received a patent ever made a dime back, ymmv of course, but I'm not convinced). bobua posted:I was looking at connecting an rfid reader, camera(usb), wireless card, and arduino for a while. Stacking shields, using adapters, lots of terrible fun. It kind of dawned on me that it would be easier and cheaper to find a tiny pc that I could run linux on to pretty much take care of the whole thing...
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Mar 15, 2012 02:31
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Hey guys, I'm doing some self-study on electronics and came across a problem I spent way too long on without solving (although the mental gymnastics i've done in my head really gave me a better grasp of fundamentals) There are two questions, the first which I figured out goes like this: What resistance must be connected in series with a 100 ohm resistor for the 100 ohm resistor to produce heat at the rate of 30W when the combination is connected to a 120V source? I found V2 through the square root of R2 X P2 (100ohm x 30w), from which I used VT/V2 = PT/P2 to get total power (30w x (120V/54.77V)). From there I got current by I = P/V = 0.548A, and then Req by V/I which is 219.1 ohms. Minus the 100ohm R2 resistor and we have R1 which is 119.1ohms. The second one I can't solve, although it's nearly identical to the first. it feels like I don't have enough information. It goes: What resistance must be connected in series with a 100ohm resistor for the unknown resistance to dissipate heat at the rate of 30w when the combination is connected to a 120V source? I think it's important that I know how adding a resistor to a series circuit will change the components, but I always end up with too many variables to obtain more concrete information about the circuit.
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Mar 15, 2012 17:24
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You have enough info to solve the 2nd one. However, I've grown sluggish and dumb since I last did math, so I can't remember how to factor the last part (although I know it's factorable). So, we have two resistors. R1 = 100ohm, R2 = ?, with power dissipations P1 and P2, respectively, where P2 = 30W. There is a voltage across each resistor, V1 and V2, where V1 + V2 = Vtotal = 120V P2 = I*V2 V2 = I * R2 P2 = I^2 * R2 I = Vtotal / (R1 + R2) P2 = R2 * (Vtotal)^2 / (R1 + R2)^2 some rearrangement: ((R1 + R2)^2) / R2 = Vtotal^2 / P2 Since R1, Vtotal, and P2 are constants, you can solve for R2....but since I've forgotten everything that 4 years of Physics tried to drive into my brain, I'm at a loss for how to factor it. However, if you do know how (I cheated and used my calculator), the two possible solutions are: R2 = 42.02 Ohms and R2 = 237.98 Ohms (or more precisely, R2 = 20(7-2*sqrt(6)) Ohms )
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Mar 15, 2012 18:10
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You don't need to factor anything. You multiply by the denominator and move everything to one side. I found it easiest to start with the voltage across the unknown resistor -- 120*Rx/(Rx + 100). I don't really consider that an electronics exercise, though. It's electrically trivial, but at least requires you to know how to solve a quadratic. More of 9th grade algebra problem.
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Mar 15, 2012 18:20
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sixide posted:You don't need to factor anything. You multiply by the denominator and move everything to one side. I found it easiest to start with the voltage across the unknown resistor -- 120*Rx/(Rx + 100). I think your way takes just as much work as mine. And it's the same messy polynomial to solve.
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Mar 15, 2012 18:27
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Slanderer posted:I think your way takes just as much work as mine. And it's the same messy polynomial to solve. Not to sound like an insufferable prick (I know I will anyway... sorry.), but how is a quadratic a messy polynomial? You can only get simpler by one order! Rx^2 - 280*Rx + 100000 = 0 edit: I meant 10000 
sixide fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Mar 15, 2012 |
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Mar 15, 2012 18:32
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sixide posted:Not to sound like an insufferable prick (I know I will anyway... sorry.), but how is a quadratic a messy polynomial? You can only get simpler by one order! I admit I'm probably wrong, but the only solutions to that particular equation are complex 
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Mar 15, 2012 18:41
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Delta-Wye posted:I don't understand what the big loving deal is. This is the "I have the best idea for a {website/iphoneapp/video game} but I can't tell you what it is because it's a totally unique million dollar idea" effect all over again. Woah, easy. The big deal is that as I understand it, from our patent attorney, someone could post the idea publicly(like to a blog) before we filed the patent, then later use that post as a prior art sort of deal. I don't know if that's true, partially true, or wrong. I don't believe it's likely to happen anyway, but it's not mine and nice people are wasting a lot of time and money on it, nice people that don't have money to waste. I'm ignorant of how the law on all this works. I already got lawyer-wrist-slapped for talking to friends about it:( Not trying to be 'secretive' to be a jerk, no one would want to replicate it anyway, it's REALLY industry specific. Just following the rules.
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Mar 15, 2012 20:36
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If you don't know enough about electrical engineering to ask the right questions, presumably there is someone else you are working with who does, right? Maybe consult with them for the answer, or at least to figure out what questions you need to ask. For some reason, I doubt the integrity of the "device" and any related patents if you don't even know what a voltage regulator is. Hell, if you don't even know that you need to know what a voltage regulator is, there's an issue. If I am completely wrong, and you're the member of a genius team of scientist-poets, roaming the land in search of destiny, then I will accept that I'm being harsh. If not, perhaps you need to contract with a professional engineer who actually knows what the gently caress they are talking about. And if it turns out you're using a goddamn arduino, I'll have a bit of a chuckle.
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Mar 15, 2012 20:46
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Slanderer posted:If you don't know enough about electrical engineering to ask the right questions, presumably there is someone else you are working with who does, right? Maybe consult with them for the answer, or at least to figure out what questions you need to ask. No, no one on the team is an EE, we have to hire one when it actually comes to that, but that's after lawyers handle NDA's and such, as it is I'M fiddling with it as a curiosity. But even if the small part of it that had to do with this was prototyped using an arduino, that wouldn't really have any bearing on the product as a whole, much less the patent. This all feels derailish and bad. My apologies, there will be no more speak of it!
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Mar 15, 2012 23:35
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If anyone remembers, there was talk of making a wake-up light some time ago. I think there were three persons or so making one. Welp, today I debugged a PCB to find out why oh why it wasn't working. I'm much calmer now that I found out why.  THERE WAS A GODDAMN FRIGGIN' CUT SMALLER THAN THE SIZE OF A GODDAMN HAIR ON ONE OF THE GODDAMN TRACES !!! Once solved, there were the usual easy to find errors, nothing too bad.Anyway, I made a video. It's going under a clock, that's why it's round. Also going on a wall, and not on the floor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NVY2vCfBZY So that's all the LEDs working, there's also the clock circuit, which sends pulses to the clock's coil every second, using the square wave output from a ds1307. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TySNn0VqE One of the things I might do is have the time displayed as light, with the color changing depending on the time of day, say, with a yellowish tint in the mornings and reddish in the evenings. This is just to see how it would look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YodVn6l39bM Depending on my free time, I hope to finish it before I die. This thing checks all the boxes for pages like hackaday. It has an Arduino (well, a Teensy), and 555 timers  . It really is true that Arduinos are good at lighting LEDs. I hope to use proper programming when I have the time, and if the library I'm using in order to use the 595s as PWM works in other environments. We'll see.
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Mar 16, 2012 01:41
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Wow BlackTie, that's pretty cool. Are wake-up lights sometime wall mounted things like this, or was this your idea? Because it's pretty clutch--especially the clock idea. Are you using discrete LEDs w/ driver chips (I'm partial to some of the TI ones that can drive several LEDs, with internally timed PWM @ a ton of bits, with separate bits just for calibration, and so on...), or like serially controlled LED strings/modules? Also, I feel ya on the etching problems. Last time I etched something, I had to go over all the long, 5mil traces near the etch of the board looking for the occasional tiiiny gap. I've come to appreciate automated PCB testing, as well. What exactly do you need 555s for?
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Mar 16, 2012 02:03
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I don't really know about the wake-up lights, but I think they are usually replacements for regular bedside lamps. This thing will go behind a clock, so that's why it has to be wall mounted.  For the LEDs, I'm just using 3W RGB LEDs with three AMC7135s on a separate board for each LED. These ICs are just simple 350mA regulators, and are used mainly (I think) on torches. Each one of these is driven by 595s shift registers using the ShiftPWM library. I'm sort of cheating by using it, but I don't mind .I have used TI's TLC5940s, but they are really expensive compared to 595s. They do have a lot of nice stuff, like you said. Wow, 5 mils. Seems like a fun afternoon! The 555 timers are there to send ~50ms pulses to the coil in the clock, similar to what this guy did. The RTC sends a square wave at 1Hz, and this goes into a flip flop, which then has each of its two outputs connected to a 555 in monostable multivibrator mode. They create the pulses needed to move the clock mechanism. Edit: Oh, there was talk before on how to regulate LEDs, right? Well, the AMC7135s could work, you can also put them im parallel to get 700, 1050 or more mA. BlackTie fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Mar 16, 2012 |
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Mar 16, 2012 02:34
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Pictures will follow. I built a 4x4x4 led cube tonight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtRzyJpFEdk Nerobro fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Mar 16, 2012 |
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Mar 16, 2012 07:18
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Hey y'all. I need help wiring up a fan motor. The model number is "R2E190-AE77-05" and it's made by EBM Papst. I'm planning on using it for some kind of fume extraction when welding but I want to test it's working first before I go and build a housing for it. The thing is that the wiring has me confused, at first I thought it'd just be a case of plugging it in but then there's a fourth black wire. It's probably apparent at this point that I don't know a whole lot about wiring. Anyways I've looked the motor up on it's webiste and I think (going by the model numbers) this diagram corresponds to the motor.  On the motor is printed 2μF. Does this mean I need to out and buy a 2μF motor run capacitor and just stick it between the brown and black cables? Also it's funny how I always do this. I was alot more clueless before writing this post but in trying to word it I ended up kinda answering my own question. I'm still not entirely confident though and i'd rather not destroy the motor.
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Mar 20, 2012 17:22
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Do you guys have your own oscilloscopes and function generators at home? I'm guessing ebay is probably the best place to go to snatch up a deal on these kinda things?
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Mar 20, 2012 17:41
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I picked up a DS-203 AKA DSO-QUAD pocket o-scope recently. I haven't gotten a ton of use out of it so far, but seems like a reasonably capable unit for <$200. The button interface takes a bit of getting used to. Here's a review with video of the thing. It has a builtin function generator too.
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Mar 20, 2012 17:55
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Lets Play Arson posted:Also it's funny how I always do this. I was alot more clueless before writing this post but in trying to word it I ended up kinda answering my own question. I'm still not entirely confident though and i'd rather not destroy the motor. I know literally nothing about AC motors, so feel free to be skeptical, but if that is the correct diagram, then I think the AC motor is using the phase shift from the capacitor to generate a second phase to drive the motor. The 2.0uF I guess indicates the required capacitor...or the internal capacitor? I dunno, hopefully the former. But as far as capacitor choice, I noticed that this product page contains links to 2 different capacitors as accessories. However, for whatever reason, they are (a) pretty big (but I suppose that makes sense if the motor runs at 230VAC or something), and (b) really expensive. As far as wiring it, U1 presumably goes to to AC line voltage (live/hot/whatever electricians call it), U2 connects to the neutral, Z connects to U2 via the big capacitor, and PE is the earth ground. Other links that may be helpful: Possibly different motor Motor wiring diagrams near the bottom Some stuff on different types of single-phase motor
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Mar 20, 2012 18:22
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IratelyBlank posted:Do you guys have your own oscilloscopes and function generators at home? I'm guessing ebay is probably the best place to go to snatch up a deal on these kinda things? The best source for scopes, I think, might be craigslist, swap-meets, or colleges. But if you want to buy a new one, the DS1052E still seems to be the standard choice for hobbyists, and seems to maximize the performance for the price. The handheld scopes, IMO, aren't really that useful for serious debugging, due to a lot of limitations. But I guess it depends on what you want to do with it.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:30
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Slanderer posted:I know literally nothing about AC motors, so feel free to be skeptical, but if that is the correct diagram, then I think the AC motor is using the phase shift from the capacitor to generate a second phase to drive the motor. The 2.0uF I guess indicates the required capacitor...or the internal capacitor? I dunno, hopefully the former. Thanks for the help. I'm going through town tomorrow anyways so I'll pick up a 2uF motor capacitor and see if it works.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:41
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IratelyBlank posted:Do you guys have your own oscilloscopes and function generators at home? I'm guessing ebay is probably the best place to go to snatch up a deal on these kinda things? I am the luckiest motherfucker alive and got a LeCroy LT344L dropped into my hands a few years back. (It retailed for like $17k I think?) It's very big though, and not at all portable. If I had a ton of $$$ and wanted a scope, I would get one of the new mixed-domain Tektronix scopes in the portable formfactor, like a MSO7xxxx series. We have a giant DSA at work for high-speed signal stuff, but I love the TDS305x we have for the regular stuff. Good workhorses, very easy to move around.
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Mar 20, 2012 21:21
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Seconding the DS1052E. I bought one and its basically a steal on a new scope for the price you pay. You can gently caress with it and overclock it to 100Mhz, but I wouldn't bother. Can anyone suggest a decent LCR meter for ~$100? Does such a thing exist? I'd rather not get some poo poo DMM/LCR combo.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:18
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NotHet posted:Seconding the DS1052E. I bought one and its basically a steal on a new scope for the price you pay. You can gently caress with it and overclock it to 100Mhz, but I wouldn't bother.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:49
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Yeah, let's talk surplus gear, please. I'm about to get a bonus from work and can finally drop a couple hundo on test gear. I want a scope, signal gen and bench DMM in that order. I think I was narrowing it down to Tek 2213's or 2215's. Any opinions on good/bad models? I can't spend more than $100 per piece of gear, really. I will be wanting to work with <30 MHz RF stuff eventually, to start out I'll just be playing with audio amps.
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Mar 21, 2012 11:53
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Well, for one, a bench DMM is big and probably a waste of space. Get a Fluke or maybe just a BK Precision (they're not that bad, I swear!)
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Mar 21, 2012 12:43
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Slanderer posted:Well, for one, a bench DMM is big and probably a waste of space. Get a Fluke or maybe just a BK Precision (they're not that bad, I swear!) Yeah, this. A good Fluke is one of the best tools you can have. You can get a few different types of leads for it too, if you wanted. I have an old 87-III I got off eBay years ago.
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Mar 21, 2012 18:17
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If you're doing audio stuff, yeah you don't need a benchtop DMM. Handhelds are cheaper and easier for the most part. If you need microvolt resolution, high test currents, etc. then you need a benchtop like a Keithley 2400 or the almighty HP 3458. I'm not going to second the Fluke recommendations, though. Even used, you pay through the nose. A mid-range DMM like a BK or Amprobe will serve you just fine unless you need traceable calibration or something. Hell, even a decent Uni-Trend is more than adequate. I wouldn't recommend any Radio Shack/Harbor Freight/ebay budget specials, though.
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Mar 21, 2012 22:29
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I agree that a fluke is not a good investment if you are on a budget. You pay a bunch for the name. We have a couple higher-end BK handheld meters at work and they stay in cal fine and are accurate according to our Keithley. They even sent us some jacks for free after we broke one being stupid. As a recommendation, I got an Extech EX330 based on the EEVBlog "Meters for under $50" episode. I like it. It isn't 5-1/2 digits or anything, but it is accurate, has a capacitance mode, and comes with a temperature probe. It also has a non-contact AC current detector that I haven't really used. taqueso fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Mar 21, 2012 |
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Mar 21, 2012 22:52
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Jonny 290 posted:Yeah, let's talk surplus gear, please. I'm about to get a bonus from work and can finally drop a couple hundo on test gear. I want a scope, signal gen and bench DMM in that order. I think I was narrowing it down to Tek 2213's or 2215's. Any opinions on good/bad models? I can't spend more than $100 per piece of gear, really. I will be wanting to work with <30 MHz RF stuff eventually, to start out I'll just be playing with audio amps. I have a BK precision 2125B scope and a BK 2005B RF signal generator I could sell. I got them from an older audio engineer that was cleaning out his basement, and I don't really have a use for them. If either of those are interesting to you let me know.
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Mar 21, 2012 23:19
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How come there isn't a cheap, decent bandwidth (>200 MHz, 500+ MSPS) USB scope? The individual parts aren't that expensive, and you're not paying for extra stuff like a screen and a front panel. Like the PicoScope 2208, it has 200 MHz BW and 500 MSPS, but it's $1k. It also only has a 40 kS buffer length, and the next model up with the same specs but with 64 MS of bugger length is an extra $400. RAM is super cheap. How is an extra 64 MB of RAM an extra $400? I don't understand why it's not closer to $500-600. I can find a used o-scope on ebay with better specs and a screen for $1k, but I really don't want to pay that much.
Krenzo fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 06:55
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TacoHavoc posted:I have a BK precision 2125B scope and a BK 2005B RF signal generator I could sell. I got them from an older audio engineer that was cleaning out his basement, and I don't really have a use for them. If either of those are interesting to you let me know. Hey cool, jonny290 at gmail dot com, if you don't mind. The bench meter is just an aesthetic thing and for ease of use, really. Bench space is absolutely not a concern; I have many square feet of shelves to fill up and want to get a nice looking test bench to go next to the radio desk. I have an Amprobe handheld DMM that works very well, for sure, I would like a second DMM though for flexibility. Maybe just get another handheld?
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Mar 22, 2012 08:38
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Lets Play Arson posted:Thanks for the help. I'm going through town tomorrow anyways so I'll pick up a 2uF motor capacitor and see if it works. Thought i'd say thanks again. Got it wired up and its working beautifully now. I just need to make a shroud for it so I can duct it outside. I've got another question though, and probably a stupid one that gets asked all the time. But are there any good textbooks for learning electronics from the perspective of microcontrollers? I've had a look at the online guides that get linked in stickies everywhere and I felt they were all lacking. Alot of things treat microcontrollers as a hobby in and of itself but i'm just planning on using them as a means to an ends. So perhaps they're out of my scope and I should stick to stuff I can understand like cam timers...
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Mar 22, 2012 13:00
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NotHet posted:Can anyone suggest a decent LCR meter for ~$100? Does such a thing exist? I'd rather not get some poo poo DMM/LCR combo. I also got a pair of those smart LCR tweezers (the $300 ones, not the lovely chinese clones), and it's turned out to be a good purchase. It looses accuracy when you go below ~25pF/100nH, but it's still enough that I can easily identify unmarked SMD capacitors and inductors, which is the reason I got it. Keep in mind that's when I know that the components can only be a certain number of values (so if it says 980pF then I know it's a 1nF cap). I don't use it for actual quantitative measurements. For that I think you really do need a decent benchtop LCR. Krenzo posted:How come there isn't a cheap, decent bandwidth (>200 MHz, 500+ MSPS) USB scope? The individual parts aren't that expensive, and you're not paying for extra stuff like a screen and a front panel. Like the PicoScope 2208, it has 200 MHz BW and 500 MSPS, but it's $1k. It also only has a 40 kS buffer length, and the next model up with the same specs but with 64 MS of bugger length is an extra $400. RAM is super cheap. How is an extra 64 MB of RAM an extra $400? I don't understand why it's not closer to $500-600. I can find a used o-scope on ebay with better specs and a screen for $1k, but I really don't want to pay that much. Because sophisticated instruments like oscilloscopes cost a great deal of money to develop, and demand is low, so they don't enjoy economies of scale. The cost of the actual components don't make up most of the cost, not by a longshot. Things are probably going to get cheaper from here on out due to the emergence of relatively low cost high performance off-the-shelf ADCs and FPGAs, allowing smaller companies to feasibly create high performance hardware (up until a few years ago most of the high speed stuff in a digital oscilloscope was ASIC technology). But the lack of overall demand still makes it hard for new competitors to actually gain a foothold. ANIME AKBAR fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 13:18
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