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crime fighting hog posted:Seems most Khador heads look pretty similar to that, if not cooler This reminded me that I can actually just search the store for 'head' and get all my options! Currently I think the frontrunners are: Devastator  Centurion  Grenadier (Light jack but it has a big head - it looks different but it's kind of neat)  They're cheap, so I guess I could get a couple and mess around. Whatever doesn't get used goes on my wreck markers. Hmm.
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Mar 22, 2012 16:08
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crime fighting hog posted:Also giving ghostwalk to a full unit of Banes with UA and Tartersauce was just outright loving mean. Curse, charge, killed a feral in 2 hits. I need to play Scav more often. Wouldn't this not count on BLT because ghost walk is target model/unit and he's a solo? or are you talking about Curse of Shadows? Korwen fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 16:49
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Korwen posted:Wouldn't this not count on BLT because ghost walk is target model/unit and he's a solo? I assume he ghost walked the banes, cursed the feral with tartarus
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Mar 22, 2012 16:57
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A couple years ago I purchased a warmachines box caled "Gorten's battle box" because I thought the models looked cool, then shoved it in the closet and never built it. My friends have all recently gotten into warmacine / hordes, and I was wondering if this is a playable force should I choose to build it up. If not, what would I need to add? I was gonna play gatormen, but then I saw this in my closet and decided that being cheap was the way to go.
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Mar 22, 2012 17:29
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PaintVagrant posted:I assume he ghost walked the banes, cursed the feral with tartarus Right, that's range CMD. Goddamn Cryx.
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Mar 22, 2012 17:35
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Manifest posted:A couple years ago I purchased a warmachines box caled "Gorten's battle box" because I thought the models looked cool, then shoved it in the closet and never built it. Gorten is a mercenary, and you definitely can play him, but he would have the same issue you'd run in to with gatormen. They're both relatively small forces, and both of the mercenary factions have their beasts/jacks split in to two groups, which limits them even further. I'd recommend a traditional factions as a good first choice so you have lots of different models to learn with and to help figure out your personal play style.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:04
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Korwen posted:Wouldn't this not count on BLT because ghost walk is target model/unit and he's a solo? I gave ghostwalk to the Bane Thralls. BLT already has ghostly, and his ability, Curse, is ranged command, and I don't even think you roll anything to use it, they just have to be in range and all the banes get +2 speed and to attack rolls against any poor son of a bitch within 10.5 inches. E: Stupid question that I know the answers to but gotta be sure: Skarlocks can't use arcnodes, can they? crime fighting hog fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 18:07
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Reik posted:Gorten is a mercenary, and you definitely can play him, but he would have the same issue you'd run in to with gatormen. They're both relatively small forces, and both of the mercenary factions have their beasts/jacks split in to two groups, which limits them even further. I'd recommend a traditional factions as a good first choice so you have lots of different models to learn with and to help figure out your personal play style. While I agree in general, Mercs are not nearly as clearly spliy as Minions. Gorten, for instance, will work in 3 of the 4 contracts, so the only thing you can't readily pair him with is Pirates. I hesitate to tell people to start the game with Mercs (although its what I did and I do not regret it) but if you already own the box you might as well build it up and give it a try. What I would suggest is to think about what other 'main' factions you might be interested in, and bulk out Gorten's force with units that would be useful to them. So if you think you might want to play Cygnar, you can run Gorten with some Gun Mages, and if you think you want Khador run him with Kazy.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:18
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crime fighting hog posted:E: Stupid question that I know the answers to but gotta be sure: Skarlocks can't use arcnodes, can they? I can field this one despite my newness cause it just came up for me. Nope they can't. Arc Nodes have to be in the caster's battlegroup to be channeled through and Skarlocks don't have a battlegroup. Actually gonna throw in a couple questions about Special Attacks: 1. Say I do a Grand Slam with a Gladiator and follow up, can I then perform my initial attacks with my fists? If not, can I buy additional attacks? 2. What about buying Special Attacks? Can I do my initials then buy a two-handed throw? I can't right? 3. Unless the Special Attack is a weapon property, I can't do it on a charge right? So I couldn't charge and then do a Warwitch's spray, but I could charge and do a Slayers' Combo Strike? My basic understanding is that Special Attacks replace initial attacks and can't be bought, but I don't have a 100% firm grasp on them. AttackBacon fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 18:20
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Grumpiest battle engine
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Mar 22, 2012 18:24
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Ashcans posted:While I agree in general, Mercs are not nearly as clearly spliy as Minions. Gorten, for instance, will work in 3 of the 4 contracts, so the only thing you can't readily pair him with is Pirates. I started off as mercs, specifically Rhulic, and one of the most annoying things was when I wanted to try some of the non-Rhulic warcasters, I had to buy an entirely new battlegroup for them, where as with a regular faction any of the jacks work with any of the casters. That's really what I was getting at. Honestly I think with regards to infantry mercenaries have tons of options, it's just the battlegroup that irks me.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:25
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Gotta say, it looks a lot better than the art from the book. Too bad it's probably never gonna hit the table, ever.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:25
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Yeah Im glad I stopped playing skorne, because I would have bought that thing despite its rules. Super sweet.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:27
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Reik posted:I started off as mercs, specifically Rhulic, and one of the most annoying things was when I wanted to try some of the non-Rhulic warcasters, I had to buy an entirely new battlegroup for them, where as with a regular faction any of the jacks work with any of the casters. That's really what I was getting at. Honestly I think with regards to infantry mercenaries have tons of options, it's just the battlegroup that irks me. Okay that makes sense. Why are the two coolest sets of models not full-fledged factions?
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Mar 22, 2012 18:27
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I really like that sculpt because the biggest thing that bugged me about the Animantarax is that it had no Claw/Bite attacks. In the art he's going nuts with those claws but the sculpt makes it clear that he needs all 4 feet on the ground to support that bigass battle tower.
AttackBacon fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 18:29
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I can't wait to have an aneurysm thanks to all the nerds who completely butcher the pronunciation of that thing.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:34
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Reik posted:I started off as mercs, specifically Rhulic, and one of the most annoying things was when I wanted to try some of the non-Rhulic warcasters, I had to buy an entirely new battlegroup for them, where as with a regular faction any of the jacks work with any of the casters. That's really what I was getting at. Honestly I think with regards to infantry mercenaries have tons of options, it's just the battlegroup that irks me. Ok, that is actually a good point. You'd basically be stuck with Gorten, Durgan (and soon Ossrum) unless you want to buy a shitload of new jacks. I started with Ashlynn, so that hasn't been as big a problem.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:37
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Fyrbrand posted:I can't wait to have an aneurysm thanks to all the nerds who completely butcher the pronunciation of that thing. I know what you mean. The other Skorne player at my FLGS insists on pronouncing Tiberion as 'Teburon'. Drives me mad, I tell you. 
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Mar 22, 2012 18:39
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Manifest posted:Okay that makes sense. I don't know my friend, I just don't know.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:50
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Reik posted:I don't know my friend, I just don't know. low5 On that note, is there a good place to view a gallery of minis? The privateer website kind of sucks.
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Mar 22, 2012 19:05
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Fyrbrand posted:I can't wait to have an aneurysm thanks to all the nerds who completely butcher the pronunciation of that thing.  Well, I don't care how YOU pronounce it, I call it an Anime T-rex.
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Mar 22, 2012 19:24
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Manifest posted:Okay that makes sense. I'll throw in an opposing opinion just to be contrary. While you won't have the huge variety that you would with a regular faction, of all the mercs, Gorton is one of the few that is tournament capable. All you need to do when building your force is don't go nuts with Rhulic warjacks. I say go for it, most newbies just pick one caster to start with and use him until they get the hang of the game, and I don't really see a problem with Gorton. The only real issue is that you should do what was said earlier and build your units out with an eye on what you plan on expanding into. Kayazy if you want to do Four Star/Khador, and Gun Mages if you want to do Highborn/Cygnar. You can even extend into pirates with sea dogs and the pirate solos. The big advantage that you will have, is that nearly everyone extends into a second faction anyway. But with mercs a ton of your units will overlap into that second faction. (tons of solos, nyss hunters, boomhowlers those in combination with gun mages or kayazy and all you need is a warjack and a warcaster) Washout fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 20:27
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Washout posted:I'll throw in an opposing opinion just to be contrary. I'm gonna take this advice and run with it. I'll use my cool little dwarf guy until I get the hang of the game. Plus he's metal so if I get pissed I can hurl my warjack at my opponent.
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Mar 22, 2012 20:50
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Sometimes I want to throw gunbunnies at dwarf players, not sure if this applies gently caress those things. My last game against them was a 15pt "show a noob the rules" game in which he just moved 4 gunbunnies on a hill and waited til I moved my poo poo into their range. Boosted pow 12's gently caress up cryx jacks, news at 11!
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Mar 22, 2012 21:02
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Manifest posted:I'm gonna take this advice and run with it. One last thing, gortons whole deal is he rules in objectives games, don't only play caster kill even though you are new. He's a decent assassin but not great. PaintVagrant posted:Sometimes I want to throw gunbunnies at dwarf players, not sure if this applies The first one is always free kid. Washout fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 22, 2012 21:19
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That is true, although Gorten is a tough cookie and can hit like a ton of bricks. Really, everyone should try to play a coupel scenarios in there, even if they are great at assassination, because it makes the game a lot more interesting. There is stuff that gets a bum wrap because it is better suited to board control than raw damage, and not enough people use the scenarios.
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Mar 22, 2012 21:48
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Paper Kaiju posted:I know what you mean. The other Skorne player at my FLGS insists on pronouncing Tiberion as 'Teburon'. Drives me mad, I tell you. The correct pronunciation is "Tibbers." drat, the BE looks great. I really want to figure out what kind of play setup the Privateer guys were using when playtesting him. There's gotta be a way to make something that gorgeous viable on the table...
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Mar 22, 2012 22:22
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Gay Polymers posted:The correct pronunciation is "Tibbers." I really have no faith in the pp play testers and rules people especially when they can't ever even fairly point multi role units. (idrans, revenants, shocktroopers) I think the rules guys, whoever they are, have run into the common problem of most game designers. The people that play the game know it better then the designer(s) at this point. But there is so much white noise and bitching and moaning when even balanced units come out. That it's impossible for him to take advice from the community. I mean to most of us it's blatantly obvious that stuff like cephlax, sea dogs, vengers etc are basically useless. But the rules guys are doing pretty much nothing to make them playable.
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Mar 22, 2012 22:39
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You see they published like hundreds of thousands of army books that they cant retcon, soooo
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Mar 22, 2012 23:02
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If you start retconning everything chasing perfect balance you unbalance everything else. It happens when I code software, it works fine until I got back to fix something minor, then that poo poo breaks.
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Mar 22, 2012 23:58
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Sea Dogs are useless? I think you mean Revenants.
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Mar 23, 2012 00:00
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Manifest posted:I'm gonna take this advice and run with it. Since Gorten can make a bubble of no blast damage, he's really good with high def low arm units such as Nyss hunters, Kayazy, and Gun Mages. Oddly enough, dwarf warcasters do not run dwarf units good at all, unless the new dwarf caster ends up being an infantry boss. I'd look at Cygnar and Khador and see which of the two factions you think looks cooler and pick Highborn or Four Star respectively. Here's an example of a Gorten 35 point Highborn list that you could run, and if you decide you can use most of these models in a Cygnar list. Faction: Highborn Covenant Casters: 1/1 Points: 35/35 Gorten Grundback (*7pts) * Grundback Blaster (3pts) * Grundback Blaster (3pts) * Ghordson Driller (6pts) * Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) * * Mule (8pts) Precursor Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Precursor Knight Officer & Standard (2pts) Thor Steinhammer (2pts) Reik fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Mar 23, 2012 |
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Mar 23, 2012 00:04
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Chicken Slayer posted:Sea Dogs are useless? I think you mean Revenants. I've always heard that people only use sea dogs because press gangers can only add dudes to the sea dogs unit, otherwise you would just use more press gangers. PaintVagrant posted:You see they published like hundreds of thousands of army books that they cant retcon, soooo They retconned several things in the past (schorcha, bile thralls, maybe more?), and released new unit cards. But they seem to have a policy of not doing that any more. Fast_Food_Knight posted:If you start retconning everything chasing perfect balance you unbalance everything else. It happens when I code software, it works fine until I got back to fix something minor, then that poo poo breaks. I agree, don't go chasing perfection. But there are some blatantly broken units that nobody uses and suck. I'd like to see them do something like hold a voting competition for the worst unit and solo from every faction and then give them a boost. Of course the pessimistic side of me says they would just gently caress it up and they would end up equally bad. Washout fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Mar 23, 2012 |
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Mar 23, 2012 00:14
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Washout posted:I've always heard that people only use sea dogs because press gangers can only add dudes to the sea dogs unit, otherwise you would just use more press gangers. I can see the logic behind this, but at the end of the day Sea Dogs have two attacks apiece and more threat that Press Gangers, which function more as a tar pit since Rockbottom doesn't need to coin them up to give them tough. Since Privateers are basically on a death clock (the longer the game goes, the more they lose access to their buffs either through losing models or through Rockbottom running out of moneys), getting even more threat out of your units to guarrentee an Alpha Strike is pretty important. The fact that they also combo better with Rockbottom than Press Gangers (Payday gives them boosted attack rolls and Overtake, which is nice because they can then move up and use their guns after chopping someone up. Also, you can make the unit bigger so more models benefit from Payday) is a nice bonus. Not that Press Gangers are useless, but they do different things. Together they combo well, since you can either tarpit with the press gangers and counter with the Sea Dogs, or you can have the Sea Dogs do a bottom of first or top of second turn blitz and then follow up next turn with the Press Gangers. Hell, you can use the Shanghai ability to pull off assassinations by placing newly recruited Sea Dogs in crazy positions with charge lanes to the enemy caster. Also, they have guns, high speed, advanced deployment and pathfinder when they need it. This might seem like much but can use these abilities to splash them into other factions, especially Cryx. Try splashing in the Crew with P Denny and see what happens. Anyway, Sea Dogs aside, I'm going to pull a little bit of a turd polisher argument here, but there are few units in Warmahordes that are truly useless due to the way the synergy in the game works. Hell, Vengers are pretty amazing with Testament of Menoth, since it's like a rolling circus of cavalry models with incorporial charging through all of your poo poo, getting resurrected every turn by Testament as he collects their souls and being used to power up that Dragoon guy so that he can lay the smack down the next turn. I think that PP does a fairly good job in general of balancing out their models over time, since all it usually takes is a change or two to make a unit competitive and they're fairly good at avoiding hard Errata. After all, remember when Winter Guard were bad? Time will tell though, since currently they seem to be focusing on making giant robots instead of releasing UA's or support pieces. That or we're all wrong and PP deliberately made the Dino Riders bad as a method of kharmic balance against all the amazing stuff that Skorne got in Domination.
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Mar 23, 2012 00:55
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So can the battle engines be assigned focus? Looking at the rules for them it appears not.
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Mar 23, 2012 01:21
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Excelsiortothemax posted:So can the battle engines be assigned focus? Looking at the rules for them it appears not. Nope, they aren't jacks.
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Mar 23, 2012 01:22
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Chicken Slayer posted:I can see the logic behind this, but at the end of the day Sea Dogs have two attacks apiece and more threat that Press Gangers, which function more as a tar pit since Rockbottom doesn't need to coin them up to give them tough. Since Privateers are basically on a death clock (the longer the game goes, the more they lose access to their buffs either through losing models or through Rockbottom running out of moneys), getting even more threat out of your units to guarrentee an Alpha Strike is pretty important. The fact that they also combo better with Rockbottom than Press Gangers (Payday gives them boosted attack rolls and Overtake, which is nice because they can then move up and use their guns after chopping someone up. Also, you can make the unit bigger so more models benefit from Payday) is a nice bonus. Agreed. A full unit of sea dogs + Hawk and Mr Walls is a very solid unit capable doing quite a bit of damage and makes an excellent tarpit. They work well with a number of different casters -- basically any caster that doesn't really their troops, because they function just fine on their own. There are few units in the game that aren't good in some situation, though there are plenty, like Trenchers, Reeves of Orboros and Arcuarii that are just never worth their points. Ashcans posted:This reminded me that I can actually just search the store for 'head' and get all my options! Currently I think the frontrunners are: I think you should use this one. A word of warning: the Centurion head is quite small, as small as the plastic heads that come with that kit. Acceptableloss fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 23, 2012 |
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Mar 23, 2012 01:47
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Chicken Slayer posted:Anyway, Sea Dogs aside, I'm going to pull a little bit of a turd polisher argument here, but there are few units in Warmahordes that are truly useless due to the way the synergy in the game works. Hell, Vengers are pretty amazing with Testament of Menoth, since it's like a rolling circus of cavalry models with incorporial charging through all of your poo poo, getting resurrected every turn by Testament as he collects their souls and being used to power up that Dragoon guy so that he can lay the smack down the next turn. I think that PP does a fairly good job in general of balancing out their models over time, since all it usually takes is a change or two to make a unit competitive and they're fairly good at avoiding hard Errata. After all, remember when Winter Guard were bad? Winter guard are the only unit I can think of that got this treatment, hmm I suppose banes became good as well. In cryx I'd argue that they made things worse for the lovely units when they buffed the necrosurgeon, they took maybe the most commonly selected cryx unit and made it amazing. That sure does not help diversity, and makes the bad units even worse. I used to play Testament a fair bit. And he has lost pretty much all his luster. I think for him in particular the MkII nerfs hit him much harder then nearly any other warcaster. He went from a premier warcaster to bottom tier, because his two favorite units (idrans and vengers) also went from top to bottom tier. And personally even when I do field Vengers once in a while I don't take Garrus anymore. He is now very overpriced for what he is capable of. I think your "no useless units" argument is true, but I think it's true for a different reason. I think it's true because the base game system is so good you can overcome the shortcomings of particular units and win anyway. This does nothing to help the real balance situation though, or make more people start playing with the lower tier models. There is zero reason for me to ever buy Black Ogryn, Cephlax Slaver, or Revenants over Mechanithralls, they are just better in every respect. I don't really think mechs are unbalanced, I just think the rest of them are not good enough to justify purchase. I would LOVE to play Revenants instead of Mechs with Terminus in a tournament and be able to be competitive. But that's just not the case. I'd also enjoy being able to play some kind of competitive pSkarre force with a ton of black ogryn and bloodgorgers but that would also just be a joke force.
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Mar 23, 2012 02:00
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Washout posted:
Whoa there, Vengers are expensive as gently caress but they don't suck by any means. They're really good for The Testament and Harby likes'em too. Cast Crusader's Call and Guided Hand on them after they've taken some damage and they're charging 13 inches with reach magical blessed weapons that have boosted attack rolls at mat 9 p+s 16. I three shot Karchev. 
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Mar 23, 2012 07:38
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Washout posted:I agree, don't go chasing perfection. But there are some blatantly broken units that nobody uses and suck. I'd like to see them do something like hold a voting competition for the worst unit and solo from every faction and then give them a boost. Of course the pessimistic side of me says they would just gently caress it up and they would end up equally bad. I like this idea, because I believe that my fellow Cryx players would be happy to grassroots a write-in to ignore the weaker solos and just all vote to make Tartarus even more ridiculous.
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Mar 23, 2012 07:55
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