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MEET ME BY DUCKS posted:it's not -that hard- to get an aclu job My roommate is doing his 1L summer at the ACLU in Los Angeles. He's at Columbia, FWIW.
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Mar 26, 2012 15:33
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Colorblind Pilot posted:My roommate is doing his 1L summer at the ACLU in Los Angeles. He's at Columbia, FWIW. They don't hire permanently off of those jobs.
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Mar 26, 2012 15:51
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What is generally perceived as the "go-to" bar review course in Texas? Pretty sure it's BarBri in PA and I'd probably default to that, I just want to make sure it's consistent in other states.
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Mar 26, 2012 16:12
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aarontxwl posted:What is generally perceived as the "go-to" bar review course in Texas? Pretty sure it's BarBri in PA and I'd probably default to that, I just want to make sure it's consistent in other states. BarBri. Having a wills lecture by Stanley Johansen is a right of passage. Don't buy his "Trusts, trusts, guardianship" poo poo though. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Mar 26, 2012 |
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Mar 26, 2012 16:21
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CaptainScraps posted:BarBri. thanks  edit: yes any advice as far as specific poo poo to look at is appreciated. i'm finishing school in PA and not practicing here because I actually found a job in TX and grew up there, so I'm going to try to crash course myself through a lot of Texas law. aarontxwl fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 26, 2012 |
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Mar 26, 2012 16:25
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aarontxwl posted:i'm finishing school in PA and not practicing here because I actually found a job in TX and grew up there, so I'm going to try to crash course myself through a lot of Texas law. It can be done (through BarBri). I passed the Louisiana bar after cramming with the BarBri books alone, out of a Georgia law school.
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Mar 26, 2012 17:08
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Thanks again to all the lawgoons who sent me Secured Transaction stuff, particularly the guy who recommended the Q&A. I'm getting about 65% of the questions right without looking at A9.
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Mar 26, 2012 19:10
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electricsugar posted:I live in Hong Kong right now, working as an english teacher. I have a BA in Literature. I thought law would be an excellent extention of my English Lit skills... Your language is a benefit, and gives you like a +5% chance of being employed. Bringing you to a total of 7% chance of being employed. My numbers might be slightly off, but the overwhelming doom of this thread is correct. Law school is not particularly engaging. It isn't a thoughtful process of reflection on society and laws, like philosophy or political science might be. Instead of an extension of english lit, it grinds down the language so you can parse contracts searching for a whiff of liability without noticing the humans involved. There may well be a market for you, and the actual day-to-day job can be very fulfilling. But law school itself is not. You may want to get in touch with attorneys you know, friends of friends. Take them out to lunch and get a more personal sense of things before you leap in.
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Mar 26, 2012 20:17
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Lawyer & Law School Megathread #13: remember when you helped a criminal get off, and then he went and raped your Uncle Ben (via c0pernic) Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Mar 26, 2012 |
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Mar 26, 2012 20:35
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woozle wuzzle posted:Instead of an extension of english lit, it grinds down the language so you can parse contracts searching for a whiff of liability without noticing the humans involved. This isn't completely accurate. I notice the humans involved in my cases, and I hate them.
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Mar 26, 2012 20:42
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HiddenReplaced posted:This isn't completely accurate. I notice the humans involved in my cases, and I hate them. Is it possible to be a lawyer without becoming a misanthropic rear end in a top hat who wants to kill all hu-man? I submit that it is not
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Mar 26, 2012 22:23
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Soothing Vapors posted:Is it possible to be a lawyer without becoming a misanthropic rear end in a top hat who wants to kill all hu-man? I submit that it is not [insert grumbles post about how working for the state for $10 an hour to put brown people in jail for a milligram of weed is a divine errand and does not corrupt thy noble soul]
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Mar 26, 2012 22:24
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Argued my first motion before a real live judge today. Lost. Annoying, because the other side filed an opposition motion so late that I couldn't respond unless I busted rear end to get in a response on Friday, never mind that I filed my motion on February 1st, and the judge wouldn't have had a chance to read anything I filed on Friday. In retrospect, I should have busted rear end and filed a response on Friday. The judge today was favorable towards me but said "Well, the cases cited by [opposing counsel] make it pretty clear that this he is right... of course, I haven't read the actual cases, I've just looked at his opposition." I explained the facts and holdings of the two cases at issue, specifically pointing out that they do not support the sentences that the opposing counsel used in his opposition motion. So the judge nods his head, says "Well, assuming there isn't any case law on this issue, as you say Mr. Entris, I think the statute governing this proceeding is pretty clear and it doesn't say anything about adding counterclaims." To which I point out that the statute doesn't say anything about barring counterclaims, and that the civil procedure rules permit adding counterclaims to all sorts of proceedings, but he just smiled and said "Well, I think you'll probably just have to file your complaint tomorrow and move to consolidate the proceedings. Motion denied." Aahhhhhhhhhhhhh so annoying. The other attorney wins because he filed a last-minute motion where he makes up law with his citations? And gets away with that poo poo?  Lesson learned: file a response if it all possible, do not let your opponent's filing be the only persuasive document in front of the judge. On the other hand, arguing in court was pretty good-times, I may have to do this more often.
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Mar 26, 2012 22:35
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^^ sorry bro  Elotana posted:Being a lawyer because "I love the law" is like being a rapist because "I love women"
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Mar 26, 2012 22:46
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derp. wrong thread.
joat mon fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 01:27
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Soothing Vapors posted:Is it possible to be a lawyer without becoming a misanthropic rear end in a top hat who wants to kill all hu-man? I submit that it is not I thought it was, really I was doing good even with the CSC cases and the felony murders and poo poo then I read a case where a guy forms an LLC to buy a commercial property from Bank A that includes some leases. He gets a loan from Bank B and he has to personally guarantee it because he's a start-up basically. Well it turns out Bank A lied about a bunch of stuff and he can't collect on the leases, so he sues Bank A but in the meantime he's getting sued by Bank B because he's in default on the financing. Bank B petitions the court to appoint a receiver over the LLC's assets. The second the receiver becomes party-plaintiff, he petitions the court to SELL THE CLAIM of the LLC against Bank A at auction. The court allows him to do it. Bank A (the defendant) buys the claim for a measly 10 grand because the guy can't scrape up more money. Bank A becomes both defendant and plaintiff and has the case against it dismissed with prejudice. The receiver sells off the property for amount less than the loan and the guy gets a deficiency judgment entered against him by Bank B for remainder of the loan (like 400,000). Then, I assume, the reps of the two banks, the receiver, and the judge go out and have cocktails and laugh about how awesome they all are and how great the law is for rich people. Civil law is the worst.
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Mar 27, 2012 09:18
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Sulecrist posted:I remember a story (NYT maybe?) about there being an order of magnitude more Chinese law schools than American ones. I mean, it's not impossible--you just need to do very well at a T-14 and get a job at a very prestigious firm. Success at an Asian firm is probably easier than working for the ACLU. It's just not very likely at all.
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Mar 27, 2012 10:26
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J Miracle posted:I thought it was, really I was doing good even with the CSC cases and the felony murders and poo poo I represent a 600-lb gorilla of a creditor so I hear all sorts of stories from opposing parties about how the system is unfair because my client wins in court. I find that people generally view the court system to be fair just up until the point that they lose.
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Mar 27, 2012 14:05
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The part that seems bad is the part about auctioning a guys cause of action. I'm sure BP would love to buy the claims of the Macondo spill plaintiffs at auction--I seriously doubt even heavy hitting plaintiff attorneys could outbid the $20 billion BP set aside--but we acknowledge that's unconscionable. I don't know much about collection laws, but it would seem unfair to let the bank buy the cause of action against it.
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Mar 27, 2012 14:28
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Phil Moscowitz posted:The part that seems bad is the part about auctioning a guys cause of action. I'm sure BP would love to buy the claims of the Macondo spill plaintiffs at auction--I seriously doubt even heavy hitting plaintiff attorneys could outbid the $20 billion BP set aside--but we acknowledge that's unconscionable. I don't know much about collection laws, but it would seem unfair to let the bank buy the cause of action against it. Let's say the Macondo plaintiffs had a debt to a neutral third party ("X") for $10 million. X goes to court and gets a $10 million judgment against the Macondo plaintiffs. The Macondo plaintiffs don't pay, but X knows that the Macondo plaintiffs have a very valuable asset -- the claim against BP. So X goes to court and gets a turnover order, and the Macondo plaintiffs are forced to assign to X the claim against BP. At that point, the claim against BP is X's property, so X should be able to sell that claim to whoever it wants. And this makes sense, because X doesn't care about whether BP spilled oil all over the Gulf; X only wants its $10 million back. And if BP is willing to give X its $10 million, X doesn't give a poo poo whether or not BP also gets to walk away from its spill liabilities. Now, I grant you that the Macondo/BP example is perhaps not perfect because there is an unconscionable element to selling a claim worth $20 billion for $10 million. But that's a matter of facts and circumstances. In theory, there is nothing unconscionable about auctioning a claim of action to satisfy a judgment debt of a third-party creditor.
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Mar 27, 2012 14:53
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Yeah I don't see any practical difference between being a defendant and buying the claimant's cause of action and just directly giving them the money to settle the case. If the claimant is willing to accept the money then either way it has the same effect. I don't think doing it in a more convoluted fashion makes it morally unacceptable. If the receiver has done it then it's not different to selling off any other asset - if the guy had a car, this would be auctioned off for as much as they could get for it. If it was theoretically worth 20 grand but they could only get 10 grand for it, they would sell it. Sounds like the same happened here, just that the property is a chose in action rather than something tangible. It's hard to make value judgments when we don't know much about the real merits of the claim, other than that 'Bank A lied about a bunch of stuff'. If it was really that open and shut, I have a suspicion that a third party would have bought it out for more than 10 grand. I don't know about the US but in the UK there's a concept of 'loss of a chance' and if you say had to sue your own lawyer for negligence because he missed the limitation period and hosed up your claim, the court will look at what sort of chance of success your claim had in the first place and chances are if it's less than 100% you're looking at getting less money. Same logic would apply to someone buying a claim - they're taking on a risk in buying it and if it's not guaranteed then you would expect the price to fall to reflect that.
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Mar 27, 2012 16:55
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Off to another interview (7-attorney boutique). Wish me luck!
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Mar 27, 2012 17:05
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Perhaps the difference comes down to how one sees the law. Is the law is a set of rules that aspire to achieve some approximation of solomonic "Justice" between two parties? or Is the law a set of rules to achieve the orderly disposition of money, property and capital to those who are best able to utilize them? And then on top of that, whether you become a misanthropic rear end in a top hat depends on whether you're able to resolve the contradictions with trying to get the law 'do justice' on the one hand, and/or whether you can reconcile yourself to the idea of 'law is the continuation of capitalism by other means' on the other. If I had to do 10-8's job and not be able to quit, I'd become either a misanthrope or an alcoholic. If 10-8 had to represent elder-incest forcing cannibal arsonist robbers, he/she might well feel the same. Even in the Pollyanna-Land of 'law is for the approximately just resolution of disputes' there's still room for misanthropy. I'm sure Bighead feels only a misanthrope could make use of the rules in the ways defense counsel do, as I feel that only a misanthrope could remain a prosecutor for long. And then there are always those nomikoi who will be misanthropes no matter what they do... Though it may mean you have to eat ramen and drive a car with more miles on it than the lunar module, you don't have to become a misanthrope if don't want to.
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Mar 27, 2012 17:05
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Off to another interview (7-attorney boutique). Wish me luck! hope you fall into an open manhole on the way there and have to subsist for the next forty years on rats and feces (i.e. good luck, because that sounds better than being a patent atty)
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Mar 27, 2012 17:34
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I guess to me it seems like the neutral court officer assigned to preserve assets instead sold the llcs biggest asset for a pittance and prevented claims against bank A from ever being litigated. On my phone right now but it basically seemed like a real back room deal type situation to me. I get that the sale of the claim is sort of like a settlement but it requires p to have their own source of cash or else get hosed which is weird to me. EDIT: At least the sale by a receiver, because that means the people with the beneficial interest in the case have to come up with money or else the defendant gets to walk away with it pretty cheap, assuming the general public isn't too interested in picking it up. I guess I should have said "Bank A allegedly lied" but the point is we'll never know now, maybe there was a viable action for recission, the receiver never did ONE thing to pursue the case once he was substituted as plaintiff. J Miracle fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 17:44
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Off to another interview (7-attorney boutique). Wish me luck! F&W?
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Mar 27, 2012 17:49
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Soothing Vapors posted:hope you fall into an open manhole on the way there and have to subsist for the next forty years on rats and feces and rat feces!
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Mar 27, 2012 18:00
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If the claim is voluntarily sold by one party to another for a bargained settlement, great. If the claim is forcibly sold at auction, against the claimant's will and where the claimant has no reasonable financial ability to bid on it, that's loving bullshit. See the difference? Edit: we obviously don't have enough facts about the true value of the claim do this discussion is sort of dumb Phil Moscowitz fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 18:33
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joat mon posted:...as I feel that only a misanthrope could remain a prosecutor for long. What? You don't need to be a misanthrope to be a long term prosecutor. I would gladly remain one forever if it were feasible. Triple word score for nomikoi though. Edit: a big problem with being a prosecutor in the us is that in some places the people do not deserve your efforts, and the general working conditions and legal system are an offence to one's honour. I am disgusted by the american economy and political system. Agesilaus fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 18:43
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I'm dealing with an opposing council who is negotiating with me on a settlement. The problem is, every offer I make, she counters with a higher number. (I want a lower number) My conclusion is she's just playing with me and I should gear up for trial. Sure does piss me off.
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Mar 27, 2012 18:48
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HiddenReplaced posted:and rat feces!
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Mar 27, 2012 18:57
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Soothing Vapors posted:feces hi do you have michigan bartips??? i am frightened
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Mar 27, 2012 18:57
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considering that you got a job where you did, you will loving destroy the bar assuming you study a reasonable amount. MI isn't that hard; the only smart folk who fail the MI bar are the ones who coolbro it up and don't study. i am Actually A Dumb Person and passed quite comfortably 1.) use anki - flashcards own 2.) don't blow off essays 3.) I know you are a CUT BRO and all instead of a flabby piece of poo poo like myself but I found hand exercises with one of those dumb squeezy things + a very nice wide-grip pen = PATHWAY TO SUCCESS on churning out 3 hours of handwritten nonsense (srsly why can't we use laptops gently caress this state forever) 4.) watch dem videos on 1.5x and use the time you saved to study more 5.) the barbri guided schedule is absolutely retarded. study hard but ignore it 6.) always remember that you are competing with 40,000 Cooley graduates from the 19 Cooley campuses conveniently located in every city in state, and somehow we still have an 80% pass rate Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 19:22
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Soothing Vapors posted:3.) I know you are a CUT BRO and all instead of a flabby piece of poo poo like myself but I found hand exercises with one of those dumb squeezy things + a very nice wide-grip pen = PATHWAY TO SUCCESS on churning out 3 hours of handwritten nonsense (srsly why can't we use laptops gently caress this state forever) Welp scratch Michigan off the list of bars I'd ever take. Holy god. Handwritten? What is this the Dark Ages? Even Arizona has caught up to laptop use. You're behind Arizona, Michigan. Jesus.
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Mar 27, 2012 19:28
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SlothBear posted:Welp scratch Michigan off the list of bars I'd ever take. Holy god. Handwritten? What is this the Dark Ages? Even Arizona has caught up to laptop use. You're behind Arizona, Michigan. Jesus. you CAN use a typewriter to take the bar if you want, but a friend who went that way said the noise in the typewriter room was horrible. plus it's a loving typewriter
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Mar 27, 2012 19:34
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Soothing Vapors posted:considering that you got a job where you did, you will loving destroy the bar assuming you study a reasonable amount. MI isn't that hard; the only smart folk who fail the MI bar are the ones who coolbro it up and don't study. i am Actually A Dumb Person and passed quite comfortably i know that your internet persona archetype is "mysterious misanthrope king" but youve been the most helpful human in regards to this stuff so thank you here's my remaining question - what is my life going to be like this summer? ill do whatever i need to do to make sure i pass but is taking the bar like an 8 hour a day thing or is it like two months of 1L exam period all over again where i stop sleeping and having sex entirely
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Mar 27, 2012 19:35
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SlothBear posted:Welp scratch Michigan off the list of bars I'd ever take. Holy god. Handwritten? What is this the Dark Ages? Even Arizona has caught up to laptop use. You're behind Arizona, Michigan. Jesus. When I took the bar in Wisconsin in 2002, there was no online fillable application form. We literally had to find typewriters to fill in the forms. I had a combination typewriter/word processor I used in college (it was very oool in the early 90s; you plugged the screen into the typewriter and it would print stuff one page at a time) and it was stored at my parents' house so I used that. But others were searching flea markets and places like that to buy one. I would assume that they've updated that by now. Feces Starship posted:here's my remaining question - what is my life going to be like this summer? ill do whatever i need to do to make sure i pass but is taking the bar like an 8 hour a day thing or is it like two months of 1L exam period all over again where i stop sleeping and having sex entirely I studied pretty much all summer, maybe 4-5 hours a day. Then the last maybe week was serious exam period-like cramming. Honestly, it was a great summer. I didn't work at all, studied a few hours a day, and generally did nothing the rest of the time. I took a BarBri class, and we could go to the live session in the morning or the recorded section at night. I really needed that structure or I would have procrastinated all summer. The structure was good for me and allowed me to pace myself. quepasa18 fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 19:38
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Soothing Vapors posted:you CAN use a typewriter to take the bar if you want This is amazing.
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Mar 27, 2012 19:42
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Feces Starship posted:i know that your internet persona archetype is "mysterious misanthrope king"  Feces Starship posted:here's my remaining question - what is my life going to be like this summer? ill do whatever i need to do to make sure i pass but is taking the bar like an 8 hour a day thing or is it like two months of 1L exam period all over again where i stop sleeping and having sex entirely May: I took it pretty easy; basically watched the videos, did a little reading, etc. maybe averaged 3-4 hours a day. personally speaking I wouldn't try to memorize too much before late May; it's not gonna stick. June: started to ramp it up; 6-8 hours a day (weekends less), depending on energy levels. life wasn't too bad in June; Anki has a mobile app, so I did flashcards wherever, slept late, got drunk a lot, life was pretty decent. July: not gonna lie, July will suck. was literally insane by the last two weeks before the bar;had flash cards taped to my walls and ceiling;studied like 16 hours a day;forsook personal hygiene entirely. none of that was necessary. no need to give up your life entirely until late June/early July, and probably not even then. you'll study way more than you need to, but that's just how it is. Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 19:43
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quepasa18 posted:Honestly, it was a great summer. I didn't work at all, studied a few hours a day, and generally did nothing the rest of the time. enjoy it, it's probably the last time you will ever feel joy  . or anything at all
Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 19:45
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