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Grandpa Pap posted:Also, to tie the two in together, there's also Col. DeBeers, the evil "South African" wrestler who hated America and was strongly in favor of apartheid. I just looked this gimmick up, holy poo poo. Wikipedia posted:DeBeers feud with Snuka was notorious in that, even in an industry known for characters based on racial stereotypes, DeBeers overt racism was still shocking. DeBeers essentially refused to wrestle Snuka because he was not white.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:04
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Not really an America vs X angle, but there's no way you can't mention Kerwin White.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:09
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Why does Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker, a match which has been done to death, seem to have some people thinking it would be some sort of WrestleMania Dream Match?
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Mar 29, 2012 17:10
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That Debeers thing sounds like an awesome heel gimmick and the fact that he's called Debeers is just the icing on the cake.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:10
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TL posted:Why does Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker, a match which has been done to death, seem to have some people thinking it would be some sort of WrestleMania Dream Match? i think, because it was really good in 2002 and that was when undertaker was poo poo he was just poo poo.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:13
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Sionistic posted:I just looked this gimmick up, holy poo poo. Gonzo McFee posted:That Debeers thing sounds like an awesome heel gimmick and the fact that he's called Debeers is just the icing on the cake. And of course we have Verne Gagne's AWA to thank for that.  I can just imagine Verne in the 1980s (increasingly out of touch with popular trends and desperate to find some cultural touchstone that would make the AWA relevant) reading the paper or watching some report about apartheid on the news, and walking into the booking meeting the next day, confident that he'd found the gimmick that would put the AWA back on the map. 
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Mar 29, 2012 17:15
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TL posted:Why does Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker, a match which has been done to death, seem to have some people thinking it would be some sort of WrestleMania Dream Match? It's been ten years, Brock is a huge crossover star, and when they shot the angle in late-2010 it was one of the hottest things WWE had done in years even though it wasn't on television.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:36
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Would Brock Lesnar's value as a monster heel be diminished by the fact that we know now that he reacts like a bitch to getting punched (also we've seen him get beaten up multiple times IRL)? If not from the perspective of the fans, how about Vince/the locker room?
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Mar 29, 2012 17:47
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Yuriy posted:Would Brock Lesnar's value as a monster heel be diminished by the fact that we know now that he reacts like a bitch to getting punched (also we've seen him get beaten up multiple times IRL)? Stuff like that hasn't majorly hurt anyone's drawing power in MMA, including Brock's, and the only people who know that are the super-hardcore MMA fans anyway, so I don't see why.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:51
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Sionistic posted:I'm writing a short paper about Racism and Xenophobia in American Professional Wrestling. I wanted to bring up examples of wrestling using US vs X to get a reaction out of American fans. I'm also looking for examples of the racist gimmicks used in the past. So far I have: There was a roundtable discussion on this subject. Although they said "Patriotism" instead of Xenaphobia can't find it at the moment. It went over the old German Heels to Mohamed Hassan
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Mar 29, 2012 17:51
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Yuriy posted:If not from the perspective of the fans, how about Vince/the locker room? I would love to see Vince or anyone in the locker room call Brock a bitch or try to fight him in any way.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:52
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jeffersonlives posted:Stuff like that hasn't majorly hurt anyone's drawing power in MMA, including Brock's, and the only people who know that are the super-hardcore MMA fans anyway, so I don't see why.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:54
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Yeah for some reason I think getting punched in the face by Punk wouldn't hurt quite as much as getting punched in the face by Overeem.
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Mar 29, 2012 17:56
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I'm disappointed by the lack of Rey Mysterio questions on this page.
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Mar 29, 2012 18:16
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Hunico is currently riding to the ring on a low rider bicycle.
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Mar 29, 2012 18:22
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THE GAYEST POSTER posted:Hunico is currently riding to the ring on a low rider bicycle. A bike that he shares with Camacho because they can only afford one bike
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Mar 29, 2012 18:30
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In honor of the page number, what you guys consider the quintessential Rey Mysterio match?
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Mar 29, 2012 18:43
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NienNunb posted:In honor of the page number, what you guys consider the quintessential Rey Mysterio match? Mysterio vs trailer in a dart match
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Mar 29, 2012 18:46
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oldpainless posted:Hacksaw's eyes go in two different directions so he's always watching America. 
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Mar 29, 2012 18:53
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NienNunb posted:In honor of the page number, what you guys consider the quintessential Rey Mysterio match? I think generally Rey vs Eddie at Halloween Havoc is considered the classic Rey match, right? As for his WWE era, again, his work with Eddie was great (storyline not withstanding). Edit: Rey in WWE is an interesting case. People, myself included, got really down on him for following a "formula" in his matches. But him doing the same finishing sequence and moves helped get him really over, and the crowd really bought into his offense. In WCW he was more innovative, but I don't think he ever had a move get over like the 619 in WWE. Not to mention that his "repetitive" offense early in his WWE career let him be more innovative at the end. Before he had time off for injury, I was really getting into him. He was finding new ways to set up the 619, opponents were countering his moves in new ways, I consistently thought Rey was having the best matches on whatever show he was on. triplexpac fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 29, 2012 |
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Mar 29, 2012 18:58
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Mysterio-Edge vs. Angle-Benoit E: the Smackdown one
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Mar 29, 2012 19:01
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I always loved Rey-Malenko from Halloween Havoc '96, although I think Meltzer only gave it ****1/4.
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Mar 29, 2012 19:06
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NienNunb posted:In honor of the page number, what you guys consider the quintessential Rey Mysterio match? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kvel_rey-mysterio-jr-vs-psychosis_sport
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Mar 29, 2012 19:13
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Rey vs Eddie, Halloween Havoc, Mask vs Title. The final ***** match in WCW history, and the best match of both guys' career.
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Mar 29, 2012 20:18
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Sionistic posted:I'm writing a short paper about Racism and Xenophobia in American Professional Wrestling. I wanted to bring up examples of wrestling using US vs X to get a reaction out of American fans. I'm also looking for examples of the racist gimmicks used in the past. So far I have: If you go into whether it's the bookers or the audience being racist, it might be worth recalling that Muhammad Hassan was originally a Middle-Eastern American with a grievance, wanting to fight the terrorist stereotype, but the audience wouldn't acknowledge it and it devolved into "USA! USA!". Similarly, there have been a few matches where "USA!" chants broke out where neither competitor was American (I think Jericho/Edge and Gabriel/Zeke Jackson)
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Mar 29, 2012 21:14
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Szmitten posted:If you go into whether it's the bookers or the audience being racist, it might be worth recalling that Muhammad Hassan was originally a Middle-Eastern American with a grievance, wanting to fight the terrorist stereotype, but the audience wouldn't acknowledge it and it devolved into "USA! USA!". Thinking back, I always though Hassan was supposed to be doing it tongue in cheek, not really being a legit, "I AM AN AMERICAN DAMNIT!" but more, "Oh no, I'm an American, really!" like the Rougueaus. He was supposed to be a clever, deceiving heel. The problem is that it was done really well at first and then they bombed it later and you couldn't understand at all what their angle was with Hassan. Canada vs. USA has been done several times and it's funny to me how it ever got over. I always thought America was pretty apaethic towards Canada but I guess when we got all of the best wrestlers, it does make America jealous. 
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Mar 29, 2012 21:19
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Canada vs USA is my favourite wrestling thing. I love any wrestlers that are over the top Canadian, I miss La Resistance. Edit: I forgot all about this: The La Resistance angle had an unsuccessful start in February 2003. During a pay-per-view show in Montreal, the WWE mocked the Montreal Screwjob in the main event. Sylvain Grenier had been working as a referee for two months prior to the re-match between Hulk Hogan and The Rock. During the aforementioned match, Grenier served as the referee, who contributed to Hogan's loss. It was later announced that Grenier was French-Canadian, so essentially it was a Canadian who cheated the fans this time (overlooking that neither Hogan nor The Rock were from Canada, so neither was the hometown representative). Grenier would continue to serve as a biased official who decided matches to Mr. McMahon's wishes. The original planned result of this was for Grenier to continue playing in favor of villains long enough so that numerous fan favorites to be cheated and confront him. Claiming racial discrimination, he would call in friend René Duprée to help him enforce "cultural sensitivity". However, after Hogan defeated McMahon at WrestleMania XIX, the angle was changed completely, removing Grenier's role entirely before it could begin to go far enough to call in Duprée.
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Mar 29, 2012 21:21
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Szmitten posted:If you go into whether it's the bookers or the audience being racist, it might be worth recalling that Muhammad Hassan was originally a Middle-Eastern American with a grievance, wanting to fight the terrorist stereotype, but the audience wouldn't acknowledge it and it devolved into "USA! USA!". Hassan is the best argument that pro wrestling at the WWE's level just isn't built to handle nuanced, subtle storytelling. You can kind of get away with it in a smaller fed with a rabidly loyal hardcore following. But the WWE is always aiming for the largest audience possible, and more often than not the LCD audience doesn't want anything more in their rasslin' besides clear-cut good guys and bad guys. And the occasional pair of tits.
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Mar 29, 2012 21:23
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triplexpac posted:Canada vs USA is my favourite wrestling thing. I love any wrestlers that are over the top Canadian, I miss La Resistance. I thought it was an awesome moment when La Resistance turned from Parisian French to French Canadian and got a huge pop for winning the tag titles. Honestly, French Canadians make the best heels because everyone except Quebec hates them.
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Mar 29, 2012 21:23
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Sionistic posted:I just looked this gimmick up, holy poo poo. He once poured white paint on a black wrestler. Of course, as is usually the case, reports have it that the guy playing DeBeers was kind, gentle man, and nothing like his character.
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Mar 29, 2012 21:47
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Davros1 posted:He once poured white paint on a black wrestler. Prior to the DeBeers thing, one of his other gimmicks was literally the wrestling version of this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagwan_Shree_Rajneesh which is kinda funny.
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Mar 29, 2012 21:57
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Szmitten posted:If you go into whether it's the bookers or the audience being racist, it might be worth recalling that Muhammad Hassan was originally a Middle-Eastern American with a grievance, wanting to fight the terrorist stereotype, but the audience wouldn't acknowledge it and it devolved into "USA! USA!". Thats pretty much what I wanted to say about him. He didnt fit stereotypes. He didnt call for death to americans, yet. He had clear points and was generally 100% correct about American Hypocrisy at the time. So of course he was promptly hated because "some a-rab was tellin us we dumb! hurr"
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Mar 29, 2012 21:59
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Their is also the Harvard Chris vs Scott Steiner debate
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Mar 29, 2012 22:00
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bobkatt013 posted:Their is also the Harvard Chris vs Scott Steiner debate This better fits into, "Smart people are heels because of the IQ of the average wrestling fan".
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Mar 29, 2012 22:02
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Sionistic posted:I am sure there are many other examples, can anyone think of any? It would be pretty awesome if every American-born white wrestler had a forced stereotype choice of being either the comical clueless fat/frat guy or the Corporate Cubicle Commando! while minorities and foreigners got to develop interesting characters. I believe I shall call this federation EWW.
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Mar 29, 2012 22:23
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Sionistic posted:Thats pretty much what I wanted to say about him. He didnt fit stereotypes. He didnt call for death to americans, yet. He had clear points and was generally 100% correct about American Hypocrisy at the time. So of course he was promptly hated because "some a-rab was tellin us we dumb! hurr" To be fair they really ruined any subtlety with that gimmick by having him summon a group of ski mask-wearing insurgents who choked the Undertaker with piano wire.
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Mar 29, 2012 22:33
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Quarex posted:It would be pretty awesome if every American-born white wrestler had a forced stereotype choice of being either the comical clueless fat/frat guy or the Corporate Cubicle Commando! while minorities and foreigners got to develop interesting characters. I believe I shall call this federation EWW. Why limit yourself to only those stereotypes? Italian-American wrestlers = mobsters/running a pizza joint/video game plumbers Irish-American wrestlers = drunken Catholics who love to fight and see leprechauns/are leprechauns New Yorkers = Rude, often one of the above two stereotypes. Bonus points for putting them in Yankees gear Southerners = Three teeth or less, Dixie flag, incest, moonshine. For a slightly more upscale gimmick, just make them a country music fan/performer Midwesterners = Think "Fargo: The Wrestling Movie" Texans = all cowboys, for a more "modern" take make plenty of "Brokeback Mountain" jokes Californians = stoners and hippies. Maybe give them a surfboard to attract the younger demographic What I'm saying is I want a job on the EWW creative team when it gets off the ground. 
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Mar 29, 2012 22:38
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Grandpa Pap posted:Why limit yourself to only those stereotypes? You could have a Canadian tag team where one member is a Conservative Cowboy from Calgary who throws oil in his opponents faces while his partner is a hippy from Toronto who rides to the ring on a bicycle and acts as though nobody exists outside of his city: including his tag partner.
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Mar 29, 2012 22:48
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Grandpa Pap posted:Why limit yourself to only those stereotypes? probably because that would make you look like a weird racist and undermine the satire present in the original idea?
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Mar 29, 2012 22:50
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NOTHIN BUT CHUNK posted:probably because that would make you look like a weird racist and undermine the satire present in the original idea? at least he exhausted a significant amount of white noise in only one post, as opposed to people doing it for two pages
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Mar 29, 2012 22:55
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