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Commander Hen
Jan 7, 2012
I know that this isn't game related but it's in a similiar field.

http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-paying-to-work-for-free-vfx-business-model/

quote:

""New horizontal expansion includes government-funded Bachelors and Masters programs wherein students pay Digital Domain to work for Digital Domain""

Soon after my tweet I get an email from a new VFX blogger called OccupyVFX who was able to find audio of the presentation given by Digital Domain’s CEO John Textor. The whole 22 minute presentation is posted above but the surprising part starts around 15:40 when Mr. Textor talks about their new VFX school in Florida called Digital Domain Institute:

""Classes starting in the education space, what’s interesting is the relationship between the digital studio and the college. Not only is this a first in a number of ways that we’ve talked about, but 30% of the workforce at our digital studio down in Florida, is not only going to be free, with student labor, its going to be labor that’s actually paying us for the priviledge of working on our films.

Now this was the controversial element of this and the first discussions with the Department of Education, cuz it sounds like you’re taking advantage of the students. But we were able to persuade even the academic community, if we don’t do something to dramatically reduce costs in our industry, not only ours but many other industries in this country, then we’re going to lose these industries .. we’re going to lose these jobs. And our industry was going very quickly to India and China.

So, if 30% of our labor can be free, actually paying tuition, but by your Junior and Senior year at the college, you’re working on real firms (films), as part of the professional workflow, and you graduate with a resume that has five major films, your name in the credits, and more than just an intership level of experience, then that’s the perfect kind of trade off.""

It’s one thing to work for low pay, it’s another thing to work for free, but it’s unfathomable to be expected to pay to work for free. The company intends to make money by not only creating content through huge subsidies provided by the Florida government, but by having a workforce of laborers who not only are working for free, but paying a tuition totaling $105,000 for non-residents which does not include food, housing, or transportation costs.

All of a sudden the things I’ve been blogging about in the VFX industry have rapidly become a reality. One of my first articles was criticism of a similar program being offered by Gnomon. I also wrote about how some companies capitalize on the allure of prestige starry-eyed prospects get. I pointed out instances in Montreal, and Michigan where rich US studios took advantage of generous government subsidies and still managed to leave VFX professionals unpaid.

Imagine actually PAYING a company to work for them? Just absolutely pathetic. I know Digital Domain has kinda gone down the toilet in terms of quality but this is a race to the bottom. I'm somewhat glad the Games industry hasn't gotten as bad as the VFX one but every now and then I see similarities. It doesn't help that the Department of Justice found Pixar and ILM engaged in collusion.

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Monster w21 Faces
May 11, 2006

"What the fuck is that?"
"What the fuck is this?!"
Ok, serious question, how to I get a company in the states to look at my cv and seriously consider going through the legal work to get me over there?

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



Be a badass. Have a friend in the company. Have good luck.
Choose any of these.

Mega Shark
Oct 4, 2004

Chernabog posted:

Be a badass. Have a friend in the company. Have good luck.
Choose any of these.

Be a badass is a valid point. We hire people from anywhere on Earth if we want them on our team.

GeeCee
Dec 16, 2004

:scotland::glomp:

"You're going to be...amazing."

Commander Hen posted:

Imagine actually PAYING a company to work for them?

Happens in the fashion industry already I believe.

I worry this kind of practice is going to be inevitable for Games if nothing is done to encourage massive creation of games studios and take up on the talent training and graduating now.

Brit Chancellor and all round loving knobhead George Osbourne has announced some kind of Games industry Tax Cut will be implemented in the UK, but nothing announced on the details yet. I doubt it'll amount to much of anything though, too little too late. :( With Tax break incentives you either undercut Canada or it'll be a waste. :/

GeeCee fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Mar 27, 2012

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



Mega Shark posted:

Be a badass is a valid point. We hire people from anywhere on Earth if we want them on our team.

I got my first job mostly thanks to the later two actually. I mean, I was a decent artist at that point, just not a badass. But the art director was someone I went to college with and she knew I always got things done. On the other side, the company was lucky that they could get someone with my skills for the deal they were offering and I was lucky that I was able to get a job that would allow me to stay with my permit at that point. In fact, had I not gotten that offer, I would have had to leave the country two weeks after that.

Sigma-X
Jun 17, 2005

Commander Hen posted:

I know that this isn't game related but it's in a similiar field.

http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-paying-to-work-for-free-vfx-business-model/


Imagine actually PAYING a company to work for them? Just absolutely pathetic. I know Digital Domain has kinda gone down the toilet in terms of quality but this is a race to the bottom. I'm somewhat glad the Games industry hasn't gotten as bad as the VFX one but every now and then I see similarities. It doesn't help that the Department of Justice found Pixar and ILM engaged in collusion.

Games Assembly in the UK does something like this, I believe - they're a school and an outsourcing company and your later quarters are doing outsourcing work for real studios!

It seems 'logical' in that you're getting work experience and everyone needs work experience in order to get in :downs:

By that measure, though, Cutco knives aren't a scam, they're giving you the opportunity to get work experience for the low low price of $200 worth of knives :D

DancingMachine
Aug 12, 2004

He's a dancing machine!

NextTime000 posted:

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone knows how I could get a leg-up on finding an Entry/Mid-level UI Programming gig. right now I got a checklist of stuff I should know:
Flash/Scaleform (via the Unreal Development Kit)
Perl/Lua/Python
some Web Development skills ala CSS/PHP
and C/C++ for good measure

I keep applying to stuff all over, but so far in my almost 2 year search I have had one phone interview very early on that I fell flat on my face in, one phone screen that lead to a programming test but no-dice, and one eternal e-mail conversation / multiple programming tests / write-up on object-oriented programming that nobody has responded to me in months so I guess I will give up on him despite him telling me not to.

at least I got a guy who is letting me do a little freelance work for him right now.

If you're strong in C++ you would have been perfect for a junior UI dev role I just filled. But as others have said, you need to get comfortable billing yourself as a C++ programmer first, with the other stuff as icing, rather than the other way around. And getting comfortable with that might just mean getting deeper into C++ as a skill.

Jan posted:

Yeah, sadly Scaleform isn't quite like that. It's some half-assed mix of UI design, UI art and UI programming with very blurred lines between each field. Odds are if you're a UI programmer working with Scaleform, you'll inevitably have to open a flash file to make some changes to the ActionScript there.

If you're lucky, depending on how Scaleform was integrated to your engine, you might have one big common ActionScript file containing all the relevant UI logic for that movie clip. But, more likely, odds are the goddamn logic will be all over the place, in animation frames, in includes, in script, in C++.

It's a loving oversized nightmare and requires specialists in their own rights.

Yeah, on our team at least, if you are UI programmer you will be spending about 60% of your time in C++ and the other 40% in Flash+Actionscript.
If you put important code in animation frames on the timeline I will chop your hands off, though. :)

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?
This is pretty fantastic. Now I kind of wish they'd let Mega64 do an entire movie's worth of action movie recut. Make it a bonus feature or something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cefRXuXX4A

Superrodan
Nov 27, 2007
It's kind of surreal to see a game I was one of the main designers on (Dude Perfect) reach number 6 in the Android market but to know I basically did no work on the port. It feels like it's not really my game somehow, since it had to be ported, but the iOS version that I did work on didn't do nearly as well.

Anyone have any kind of experience with ports? I mean I wonder if someone who worked on GTA3 still feels like the iOS version is the game they made.

It's just a weird disconnect, is all.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

I got an email just now. $395 is slightly expensive for a hobbyist, but is probably worth it (and an educational write off) if you're a student looking to enter the industry

GDC posted:

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anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool
x

anime was right fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Apr 18, 2017

Shindragon
Jun 6, 2011

by Athanatos
This is actually probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyways. I know in the QA field that there are various amount of titles. One I've seen thrown around is QA lead. Now I what they are, they are basically the boss of a smaller QA team and are in charge of writing/managing tests etc etc.

My question is, how many years does it take for a QA tester to become a QA lead? I only ask because I recollect that my QA leads were QA testers themselves, and some of my friends end up QA leads.

Note Block
May 14, 2007

nothing could fit so perfectly inside




Fun Shoe

Shindragon posted:

This is actually probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyways. I know in the QA field that there are various amount of titles. One I've seen thrown around is QA lead. Now I what they are, they are basically the boss of a smaller QA team and are in charge of writing/managing tests etc etc.

My question is, how many years does it take for a QA tester to become a QA lead? I only ask because I recollect that my QA leads were QA testers themselves, and some of my friends end up QA leads.

The QA Lead title can be a bit confusing because the definition changes depending on the company. Some companies use the QA Lead title to show the tester has experience and is a more senior level. Some companies use the QA Lead title as a way of indicating that the QA has responsibility over a group of testers. Some companies use the QA Lead title when the QA actually leads testing on an entire project.

Personally speaking, I first became a QA Lead after a couple years of experience and when I was hired into a company that needed a tester with previous experience. The definition of my title has differed depending on the company I was working for (see above) but I have maintained a senior title since that point.

OldMold
Jul 29, 2003
old cold gold mold
Welp, just went through our first round of user testing. Go find whoever designs new user experience/tutorials for your game and give them a great big hug.

Also, while you're hugging them, subtly scan their work area for any sharp objects that the person can use to stab themselves in the ear - you probably want to remove these...

Fizzle
Dec 14, 2006
ZOMG, Where'd my old account go?!?

OldMold posted:

Welp, just went through our first round of user testing. Go find whoever designs new user experience/tutorials for your game and give them a great big hug.

Also, while you're hugging them, subtly scan their work area for any sharp objects that the person can use to stab themselves in the ear - you probably want to remove these...

Is it bad that THIS is what I want to do? I have a strong background in technical writing and training and figure that if I could break into the game industry, this would be my dream job. Am I a masochist?

concerned mom
Apr 22, 2003

by Lowtax
Grimey Drawer
Soo, have you guys met Kwalee yet?

http://www.kwalee.com/

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/topic/258000-trolls-wreck-another-potentially-interesting-thread/

etc, etc.

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

Can't wait to buy those macs off them for a fraction of the price

But otherwise :suspense:

GeeCee
Dec 16, 2004

:scotland::glomp:

"You're going to be...amazing."
Well they're based in the same town as our studio. What's the deal? Can someone give me the skinny of it?

concerned mom
Apr 22, 2003

by Lowtax
Grimey Drawer

Aliginge posted:

Well they're based in the same town as our studio. What's the deal? Can someone give me the skinny of it?

They're like a BBC 2 comedy does games. It's glorious.

floofyscorp
Feb 12, 2007

All I know about Kwalee is their CMO, who comments on basically every single article on GI.biz, has Controversial Opinions and pisses people off a lot.

Looking at their website, they sure do seem to do a whole lot of not actually making games.

Foiltha
Jun 12, 2008

concerned mom posted:

They're like a BBC 2 comedy does games. It's glorious.

And their CEO is David Darling. Dude co-founded Codemasters :stare:

Wait, the entire older staff seems to be from Codemasters. Maybe Kwalee will become the new Codemasters!

Foiltha fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Mar 29, 2012

GeeCee
Dec 16, 2004

:scotland::glomp:

"You're going to be...amazing."
All I will say is that I am mad jealous of the junior artist in the video in the linked thread who gets to work with a fuckhuge graphics tablet, possibly even a cintiq (want) :v:

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

It's a big rear end Intuous 4 tablet, cintiq are discontinues afaik.

The problem is that their kit is almost proportionally to good for them. I feel like they might turn in to whiny entitled kids if they ever have to move on to other companies.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Fishbus posted:

It's a big rear end Intuous 4 tablet, cintiq are discontinues afaik.

The problem is that their kit is almost proportionally to good for them. I feel like they might turn in to whiny entitled kids if they ever have to move on to other companies.

What? They just barely came out with a new cintiq, it isn't discontinued.

Sigma-X
Jun 17, 2005

Fishbus posted:

It's a big rear end Intuous 4 tablet, cintiq are discontinues afaik.

The problem is that their kit is almost proportionally to good for them. I feel like they might turn in to whiny entitled kids if they ever have to move on to other companies.

It's a loving Cintiq 24HD so no, you are ULTRAWRONG ON THE INTERNET!!!! :v: The 21UX might be discontinued, because it runs $2k and is 21" at 4:3 (or 16:10 I can't remember) so it's very similar to the specs of the 24HD (I want to say they run at 1600x1200 which would imply 4:3 but I can't recall since I've never owned one myself). The 24HD is 1920x1200 at that awkward PC HD resolution. It also weighs about 300lbs and has the new Intuos 3/4-era programmable slider/button things.

the 24HD is loving ~$3k because everyone is selling them over MSRP because Wacom makes about 3 a month it seems (MSRP is $2500). That's a lot of money if we're talking about twinkies, but you're going to see quality and speed jump with one of those compared to a regular tablet, and an Intuos 4 is still going to run a good couple hundred dollars. More importantly, that's a sunk cost on a workstation, that you can amortize over multiple years (as opposed to salary) and you can keep even when you layoff your artist because the money ran out because you aren't making any games.

I don't really agree that their kit is "proportionally too good for them" because they're almost exclusively 2d artists. Anyone who is doing a lot of sculpting would also benefit from a Cintiq. Also the 12" ones are loving terrible-small to the point of useless. So the 24HD is both a tremendous boon and also literally the only option on the market.

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

ok,I never knew Cintiq's were still on the market these days. Maybe it's just how much that get made that makes them seem pseudo-discontinued :v:

But still, from a slightly business minded side it seems odd to put that much money down on such expensive equipment on a start up... Maybe it is a good idea, I'm not 100% on it. But I guess we'll learn sooner or later the result, right?

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

Fishbus posted:

But still, from a slightly business minded side it seems odd to put that much money down on such expensive equipment on a start up... Maybe it is a good idea, I'm not 100% on it. But I guess we'll learn sooner or later the result, right?
If you have the money, investing in solid staff and tools early on will get you producing products faster. Since it looks like the founders are all ex-Codemaster big wigs, it's likely that they did indeed have the money.

A lot of us like to tout lean startup principles, but that's mostly because we don't have the money to be anything else :v:

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Sigma-X posted:

The 24HD is 1920x1200 at that awkward PC HD resolution.

NO! I hate you! This is a good resolution, dammit!

Frown Town
Sep 10, 2009

does not even lift
SWAG SWAG SWAG YOLO

Aliginge posted:

All I will say is that I am mad jealous of the junior artist in the video in the linked thread who gets to work with a fuckhuge graphics tablet, possibly even a cintiq (want) :v:

All artists at my studio get to use 21" Cintiqs, including the interns. We're totally spoiled, but I'm happy that my employer is of the mindset that "if this tech will help you be more productive, we will get it for you."

It's super weird going from having to scrape by on a super old Intuos and a terrible monitor from previous employers to working at a place that pays attention to our equipment requests (and has the means to honor them).

But I don't know how I feel about requesting a 24" Cintiq - wondering if it's substantially more awesome than my current set up. I can't ask for these things without feeling a bit guilty if I don't think they'll improve my workflow that significantly. I'm a senior artist. The bigger issue is that if I ask for one, everyone around me is going to whine about the unfairness, and we'll all have to upgrade.. And I don't think I want to step on that landmine. $$$$$.

Frown Town fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Mar 29, 2012

Sigma-X
Jun 17, 2005
The major difference between the two is that the 24HD is mounted to a stand that has a big swivel arm that allows you to position the Cintiq in a variety of poses (although it doesn't hold it up in the air, or at least mine doesn't) but it doesn't rotate off the horizontal at all, so if you've ever turned your Cintiq sideways you can't do it with this.

I've done that with my 12" (used it like a sketchbook in my lap) but never really felt the need to do that with the 24HD.

It lets you bring it forward and below the plane of your desk, which is pretty useful. It feels more like a drafting table and less like a sketchbook.

Realistically, I don't do a lot of sculpting, so I don't need a Cintiq at work. I bought one for home earlier in the year, though, after selling my 12" and figuring that I'll use it forever. It's been fun although in general I do more hard surface modeling and less painting/sculpting so it's still not being fully utilized :(

It's also a pretty decent monitor.

Shindragon
Jun 6, 2011

by Athanatos
Seriously, I would only want a cintiq when I get serious with 3D modeling but other than that the good old 6x8 tablet I have works. Yeah I do have a wacom intous 4, but man replacing the pen aint cheap. 70 bucks to get a new one. Well it's expensive for an unemployed artist.

Jan
Feb 27, 2008

The disruptive powers of excessive national fecundity may have played a greater part in bursting the bonds of convention than either the power of ideas or the errors of autocracy.
Am I weird in that I prefer my trusty old Intuos to the fancy Cintiqs? I've gotten so used to the disconnection of drawing surface and viewing surface, that going back to having my hand in the way is kind of weird.

floofyscorp
Feb 12, 2007

Jan posted:

Am I weird in that I prefer my trusty old Intuos to the fancy Cintiqs? I've gotten so used to the disconnection of drawing surface and viewing surface, that going back to having my hand in the way is kind of weird.

I preferred my big A4 Intuos to my teeny little 12" Cintiq, but I've never had enough hands-on time with any of the bigger ones to really compare. Think I'm okay with not wanting a Cintiq anymore though... A new Intuos is expensive enough!

I am a bit jealous of you lot with the Cintiqs at work though(I don't need one but they ARE cool...) Everyone here with a copy of Photoshop(so, not all the artists, because modellers on Runescape don't do much actual texture work) has an Intuos of one kind or another but not even our concept artists have Cintiqs.

OldMold
Jul 29, 2003
old cold gold mold

Fizzle posted:

Is it bad that THIS is what I want to do? I have a strong background in technical writing and training and figure that if I could break into the game industry, this would be my dream job. Am I a masochist?

Depends on how you react to users' experiences - you pretty much must have a "find the silver lining" mentality and be able to take criticism well. If you become good at making new user experiences (NUX) that retain a majority of users, you will become a god. Especially to any studio that is making free to play games.

Are you in the san francisco bay area by chance?

Sigma-X
Jun 17, 2005

Jan posted:

Am I weird in that I prefer my trusty old Intuos to the fancy Cintiqs? I've gotten so used to the disconnection of drawing surface and viewing surface, that going back to having my hand in the way is kind of weird.

We have one character artist who prefers his Intuos to a Cintiq but in general the cintiq is usually more useful, in our experience.

So yes, you are weird.

All of our concept artists have a really strong traditional art backgrounds, so the Cintiq is a lot easier for them. What's really fascinating is watching Steve, who is an old-school industrial-designer who worked on a bunch of Don Bluth films, use his Cintiq - he has a bunch of circle templates and straight edges and all of that, and the neatest thing he does is he'll use Photoshop Paths to make a movable perspective guide - make a 3 point path with the first and third points on either side of your horizon line, and then you can move the middle vertex around and the resulting path is perfect guides for 2 point perspective.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

I prefer a cintiq-esque setup (I use a tabletPC at home) for drawing and inking, but I vastly prefer a regular tablet for painting and photo retouching (ie texture work). I'M SO HIGH MAINTENANCE!

Frown Town
Sep 10, 2009

does not even lift
SWAG SWAG SWAG YOLO

Sigma-X posted:

The major difference between the two is that the 24HD is mounted to a stand that has a big swivel arm that allows you to position the Cintiq in a variety of poses (although it doesn't hold it up in the air, or at least mine doesn't) but it doesn't rotate off the horizontal at all, so if you've ever turned your Cintiq sideways you can't do it with this.

Interesting, my monitor is actually on a monitor arm so I can raise it and stand up to work.

I do a lot of 3D/Texturing/concept/vector/illustration work, and used to prefer the Intuos since I got so used to using it, but have found the Cintiq exceptionally useful for any vector work I need to do (especially when it comes to tracing a sketch and bringing it to vector).

Superrodan
Nov 27, 2007
Wow, sad to hear about all the layoffs at THQ.

I recently applied to Vigil through a recruiter and nobody got back to either of us at all, and I guess now I know why. If anyone worked there or Relic, I'm sorry to hear it.

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GeeCee
Dec 16, 2004

:scotland::glomp:

"You're going to be...amazing."
I'm still stuck on my personal £30 Wacom Bamboo One because we're still a tiny dev,


I trust the higher ups that this will change soon now that we've one title out and another shortly. :)

Though I'm surprised by the visceral reactions I get when artist friends discover I do my work with a low-end wacom. Sure it lacks Tilt and rotational sensitivity (both of which i doubt I'll ever use anyway) and it only has 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity rather than 2048, but if you ask me, good artists make do and don't blame their tools for bad art. :colbert:

That's not to say I wouldn't leap at an Intuos, but it does mean I refuse to whine about not getting one. :I

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