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bobkatt013 posted:A bat to the skull and/or a beating. However he did have robocop save him that one time It's true, I'll take hanging with Robocop over sex like 6 times out of ten.
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Mar 27, 2012 20:27
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CombineThresher posted:You heard wrong. Hey! Jeff Jarrett "The Alpha Male" and "World's Greatest Dad" and "MMA Enthusiast" is an entertainer the caliber of which we have never seen before, and will never see again.
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Mar 27, 2012 21:00
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Jeff Jarrett is, to me, the wrestling equivalent of elevator music. He's neither good nor bad, just drab and inoffensive and I generally tend to zone out whenever he's on. Anderson is also rapidly approaching that status for me. The guy just seems like a walking  whenever I see him. The fact that he gets any crowd response for that beyond-tired microphone gimmick astounds me. Even his botches (which are legion) don't inspire the  + reactions in me that other people's botches do.
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Mar 27, 2012 21:13
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Grandpa Pap posted:The fact that he gets any crowd response for that beyond-tired microphone gimmick astounds me. Hacksaw Jim Duggan's character was a walking retard with a two by four. People still chant, "USA! USA! USA!" whenever he shows up. People reacting to simple things in wrestling should never, ever astound you.
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Mar 27, 2012 21:17
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Lone Rogue posted:Hacksaw Jim Duggan's character was a walking retard with a two by four. Something about going to a live event makes you do weird things...
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Mar 27, 2012 21:20
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flashy_mcflash posted:At least Flair, presumably, gets sex out of his endless parade of betrayal. What does Sting ever get? The opportunity to pull off a fake Sting mask to reveal he is, alas, the Real Sting.
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Mar 27, 2012 21:39
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Lone Rogue posted:Hacksaw Jim Duggan's character was a walking retard with a two by four. I'll have you know Hacksaw Jim Duggan is in fact a college-educated man. 
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Mar 27, 2012 22:55
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bobkatt013 posted:A bat to the skull and/or a beating. However he did have robocop save him that one time Did Robocop ever betray Sting?
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Mar 27, 2012 23:18
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Bocc Kob posted:I'll have you know Hacksaw Jim Duggan is in fact a college-educated man. College! 
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Mar 27, 2012 23:19
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Z-Magic posted:Did Robocop ever betray Sting? He told him he should watch Robocop 3.
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Mar 27, 2012 23:27
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Grandpa Pap posted:Anderson is also rapidly approaching that status for me. The guy just seems like a walking See, with Anderson, I don't find him inoffensive. I actively dislike him. I really liked him at the beginning of his WWE run, then he reached status with me towards the end. I was excited when he came to TNA and feuded with angle, but as soon as the "rear end in a top hat" gimmick started, he crashed and burned in my eyes.
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Mar 28, 2012 06:38
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I am an unapologetic Jeff Jarrett mark. He's such an old school, southern-style heel. I like that.
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Mar 28, 2012 13:36
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Jeff Jarrett was always a solid, mid-card heel. The problem was only when he was put anywhere in the general vicinity of the main event.
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Mar 28, 2012 14:18
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One of the greatest heel moments I've ever seen is Double J being told by Larry Zbyszko that he couldn't use his guitar or he'd lose the world title, so he nailed Kevin Nash (I think) with a viola instead, that he'd hidden under the ring.
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Mar 28, 2012 15:25
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Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:I am an unapologetic Jeff Jarrett mark. He's such an old school, southern-style heel. I like that. So's Mitch Ryder.
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Mar 28, 2012 17:46
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Astro7x posted:WWE.com put up a bunch of videos from the final WCW Nitro, as it was 11 years today that the final broadcast aired "YOU ARE GOING TO HOLD JACK BRISCO, DORY FUNK, HARLEY RACE, THE ROAD WARRIORS, STING, LUGER, THE STEINERS, BAGWELL..." What.
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Mar 28, 2012 18:02
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Q_res posted:Jeff Jarrett was always a solid, mid-card heel. The problem was only when he was put anywhere in the general vicinity of the main event. In my heart, where everyone is good and honest, Jeff Jarrett was presented with the mid-2000's TNA stuff, where he was JJ: Super Champion, and initially thought, 'no, this is ridiculous, no one will buy this,' and then thought, "NO. I am gonna do this. I am going to fight off every heel and take multiple finishers from multiple run-ins and win anyway, but I'm not gonna do it for me. I'm gonna do it for every midcard guy who couldn't politick, or who wasn't big enough, or who fell to his own demons." So basically I've deluded myself into it being a heartwarming tribute to guys like Jake "The Snake" and the Ted Dibiase instead of completely ludicrous.
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Mar 28, 2012 20:03
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Q_res posted:Jeff Jarrett was always a solid, mid-card heel. The problem was only when he was put anywhere in the general vicinity of the main event. Except his god awful mid card runs in WWE and WCW. He's had some boring matches, boring feuds and lame, lame gimmicks. That isn't the definition of always solid.
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Mar 28, 2012 20:09
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Slapnuts is more than enough reason to hate J-E-Double-F.
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Mar 28, 2012 20:12
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I will always defend Jarrett's run on top as WCW was dying. I loved his feud with Booker T
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Mar 28, 2012 20:32
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MassRayPer posted:Except his god awful mid card runs in WWE and WCW. He's had some boring matches, boring feuds and lame, lame gimmicks. That isn't the definition of always solid. I think though at this point in his career, his work as an upper midcard guy in TNA has been very good, entertaining, solid heel work. The only real issue with it is that it's in TNA. He never was and never will be "the guy" to carry a company. He is however, great in a support role, and I think he would've done well as a perrenial IC champion if, well... http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/final-monday-nitro-playlist hadn't happened.
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Mar 29, 2012 02:22
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Sikki Nixx posted:I think though at this point in his career, his work as an upper midcard guy in TNA has been very good, entertaining, solid heel work. The only real issue with it is that it's in TNA. He never was and never will be "the guy" to carry a company. He is however, great in a support role, and I think he would've done well as a perrenial IC champion if, well... http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/final-monday-nitro-playlist hadn't happened. He CAN be good. Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. His TNA midcarder role has realistically lasted a few months because it is so on and off. This is contracted to his dull as dirt mid carder runs in WCW, and WWF runs that were mostly bad with some good matches here and there. He also got a number of different gimmicks, so it wasn't like it was just one bad gimmick. He got to be a country singer, a generic Southern bad guy, a misogynist, an NWA invader and the best of all of those was the misogynist. Speaks volumes.
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Mar 29, 2012 02:31
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Lone Rogue posted:Hacksaw Jim Duggan's character was a walking retard with a two by four. Wrestling should be simple, and I think that's part of the reason why it's not so popular anymore. They should of listend to the Rock when he said that it doesn't matter what your name is. Daniel Bryan? Randy Orton? John Cena? What kind of boring loving names are those? Throwing Hacksaw infront of Jim Duggan makes all the difference. Randy Savage was a good name, but throwing Macho Man in front is a game changer. Wrestling these days just seems to be a bunch of generic dudes in tights. There's very little iconography anymore. To most kids that's more important than the in ring performance.
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Mar 29, 2012 07:20
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Die Laughing posted:Wrestling these days just seems to be a bunch of generic dudes in tights. Bruno Sammartino should be loving it then.
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Mar 29, 2012 07:39
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MassRayPer posted:He CAN be good. Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. His TNA midcarder role has realistically lasted a few months because it is so on and off. This is contracted to his dull as dirt mid carder runs in WCW, and WWF runs that were mostly bad with some good matches here and there. He also got a number of different gimmicks, so it wasn't like it was just one bad gimmick. He got to be a country singer, a generic Southern bad guy, a misogynist, an NWA invader and the best of all of those was the misogynist. Speaks volumes. Fair enough, but wouldn't you concede that the bad gimmicks have more to do with the writing, and the booking than the wrestlers themselves? Even The Rock couldn't get Rocky Maiava over. Even stone cold couldn't get The Ringmaster over. Sure, they were green at the time, but when Double J came on to the scene in the WWF, he was pushed earlier than he rightfully should've been Despite being a 6 year veteran, he was green within WWF's confines. And in all fairness, didn't Country singer Jarrett give us some memorable moments? Spelling his name, the ridiculous outfits, and the coup de grace: With My Baby Tonight? It wasn't all bad. I'm not saying he is great. I'm not saying he was always a solid midcarder. All I'm saying is he has developed into a solid, upper midcard guy over the course of his career. That is his logical ceiling, but how many guys made a career out of being THE midcard heel?
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Mar 29, 2012 08:04
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Sikki Nixx posted:Fair enough, but wouldn't you concede that the bad gimmicks have more to do with the writing, and the booking than the wrestlers themselves? Even The Rock couldn't get Rocky Maiava over. Even stone cold couldn't get The Ringmaster over. Sure, they were green at the time, but when Double J came on to the scene in the WWF, he was pushed earlier than he rightfully should've been Despite being a 6 year veteran, he was green within WWF's confines. And in all fairness, didn't Country singer Jarrett give us some memorable moments? Spelling his name, the ridiculous outfits, and the coup de grace: With My Baby Tonight? It wasn't all bad. I'm not saying he is great. I'm not saying he was always a solid midcarder. All I'm saying is he has developed into a solid, upper midcard guy over the course of his career. That is his logical ceiling, but how many guys made a career out of being THE midcard heel? The gimmicks aren't his fault, but with a lot of guys they get one bad gimmick they can't overcome, maybe two. Look at JJ, he has had a lot of gimmicks he couldn't get over and finally only got over in a limited role as a comedy heel and anti-Mexican foreigner (and two months with misogyny). I don't think JJ is bad, and I honestly think the guy does have talent to be a good upper mid carder. I also think he's blown a lot of chances that someone who was as talented as I used to think he was wouldn't have blown.
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Mar 29, 2012 08:32
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Sikki Nixx posted:That is his logical ceiling, but how many guys made a career out of being THE midcard heel? In the 1970s and 1980s, quite a few guys did, actually. There were guys that were solid, dependable heels that would be put out there in programs designed to elevate the hot prospect babyfaces to the next level (of course, that didn't always work). The closest they were ever going to get to main event status was the occasional jobber match with the World or secondary champ. And that was fine; they were never going to have to worry about carrying the company on their shoulders, and they had steady work bringing the company's next stars along and aiding in their development. That really was a viable career option until the mid-late 1990s and the Monday Night Wars, where (most likely due to the increased focus on ratings that hadn't been as big of a deal previously) over time the concept of "good solid midcarder" got kind of eroded away in favor of booking more and more stuff featuring the people who brought in the viewers; and also getting us to the current trend of bringing in more and more inexperienced workers who are (apparently) expected to learn all they need to know at the developmental facility. And who are considered failures if they don't get over immediately; or if they get over and are pushed to the moon, then just as quickly get de-pushed, and then fail to get back over a second time (aka current WWE booking strategy). There are still midcarders out there in WWE, of course. It's just that nowadays they're expected to get as popular with the crowd as the main eventers (especially in regards to moving merchandise). Which I think is really rather silly and unrealistic, but then I'm not in charge of the only major wrestling company in the world these days. 
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Mar 29, 2012 09:01
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Die Laughing posted:Wrestling should be simple, and I think that's part of the reason why it's not so popular anymore. They should of listend to the Rock when he said that it doesn't matter what your name is. Daniel Bryan? Randy Orton? John Cena? What kind of boring loving names are those? Throwing Hacksaw infront of Jim Duggan makes all the difference. Randy Savage was a good name, but throwing Macho Man in front is a game changer. I believe like anything in entertainment or media, it should be easy to get into but you should be able to find a deeper, psychological meaning if you look for it. If all you care about is seeing two entertaining guys do a pose off and then fight each other to a finish, you should be given that. However, what takes it from good to great is being able to see a great storyline out of it or redeemable psychology in the match itself. That's what makes wrestling great. I don't disagree with you on the names either. Also, sometimes the best thing to do is just drop their first name.
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Mar 29, 2012 22:15
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Wrestling is a lot like comic books. A solid story, and some well executed action will make a great product, but it all hinges on whether it's built around an interesting character. Do you want to see Bruce Wayne slap around a mobster when you can have Batman fighting the Joker? Also like comic books, I think that WWF banked on anti-heroes for so long, they screwed themselves over when that well went dry, and it stopped being cool. Seems WWE is trying to rectify that by making a big hero out of John Cena.
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Mar 30, 2012 02:37
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Grandpa Pap posted:In the 1970s and 1980s, quite a few guys did, actually. There were guys that were solid, dependable heels that would be put out there in programs designed to elevate the hot prospect babyfaces to the next level (of course, that didn't always work). The closest they were ever going to get to main event status was the occasional jobber match with the World or secondary champ. And that was fine; they were never going to have to worry about carrying the company on their shoulders, and they had steady work bringing the company's next stars along and aiding in their development. I guess that my intent didn't come through with the way I worded that, because the point I was trying to make was in conjunction with what you said. I was saying being the solid midcarder was, and still should be a viable role in wrestling. As you said, the "Crash TV" booking, has made it less prominent today, but a few guys, like Cody Rhodes, and (hopefully) Jack Swagger seem to be reprising it as of late.
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Mar 30, 2012 02:44
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Die Laughing posted:Wrestling is a lot like comic books. A solid story, and some well executed action will make a great product, but it all hinges on whether it's built around an interesting character. Do you want to see Bruce Wayne slap around a mobster when you can have Batman fighting the Joker? I apologize in advance for the double post, but I wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'm not a huge comic book fan, bt when I was talking with my buddy who is a big fan, but doesn't know jack about wrestling, he was telling me about the dark age of comics that was hot in the 90s. It had the same shades of grey charcters, over the top violence, and dark atmosphere of the attitude era. The problem is that people became desensitized to the violence, and the genre was spread too thin in all the wrong directions. Rather than focusing on the top notch character development, the companies focused of the violence, and sexually explicit content. The resulting backlash caused comics to revert back to where they were post dark age, with those types of comics being the exception to the rule. Still they have their deciated fanbase. Sound familiar?
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Mar 30, 2012 02:49
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Sikki Nixx posted:I guess that my intent didn't come through with the way I worded that, because the point I was trying to make was in conjunction with what you said. I was saying being the solid midcarder was, and still should be a viable role in wrestling. As you said, the "Crash TV" booking, has made it less prominent today, but a few guys, like Cody Rhodes, and (hopefully) Jack Swagger seem to be reprising it as of late. I will agree with you 100% on Cody, that "handcuffs and boxing gloves" beatdown he laid on Big Show could have come straight out of the 1980s. Plus he seems perfectly happy to play a heel that everyone hates, instead of trying to be a "cool" heel that everyone ends up cheering for. Which are all qualities a solid midcard heel should have.  Sikki Nixx posted:I apologize in advance for the double post, but I wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'm not a huge comic book fan, bt when I was talking with my buddy who is a big fan, but doesn't know jack about wrestling, he was telling me about the dark age of comics that was hot in the 90s. It had the same shades of grey charcters, over the top violence, and dark atmosphere of the attitude era. The problem is that people became desensitized to the violence, and the genre was spread too thin in all the wrong directions. Rather than focusing on the top notch character development, the companies focused of the violence, and sexually explicit content. The resulting backlash caused comics to revert back to where they were post dark age, with those types of comics being the exception to the rule. Still they have their deciated fanbase. Sound familiar? Jim Cornette (and I am not a person who thinks Cornette is 100% right on everything) made a very good point about ECW in that while Heyman knew who and what to book, the constant reliance on increasingly dangerous gimmick matches created the "how do we top that?" dilemma. If you've put guys through tables, then you have to put guys through tables on fire, and once you've done that then you have to put thumbtacks down as well, wrap things in barbed wire, etc., etc. He also lamented the fact that it took a heavy toll on guys' bodies; as he once said, "We used to pretend to get hurt in matches, and people thought it was real. Now we actually do go out and get hurt, and people think it's fake." Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 30, 2012 |
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Mar 30, 2012 03:00
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Grandpa Pap posted:As he once said, "We used to pretend to get hurt in matches, and people thought it was real. Now we actually do go out and get hurt, and people think it's fake." That is my absolute favorite Cornette quote, and sums up my feelings about a lot of "hyperviolent" stuff. While I wasn't a fan during ECW's heyday, I've gone back, and watched a lot of it, and the only stuff that I really liked with no context is the technical stuff, with guys like Malenko and Guerrero. The Dreamer/Raven matches do nothing for me because without seeing the story play out, it's violence for shock value, which is pointless. And that's coming from a big Raven mark. There's a reason stuff like Flair/Steamboat still holds up today when stuff like Dreamer/Raven doesn't. Good wrestling is always good, regardless of context.
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Mar 31, 2012 07:46
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Quarex posted:Hahahah, thank you for this. Vince McMahon firing Jeff Jarrett felt so amazingly beautiful and perfect. I think the people I was watching with were all laughing and high-fiving the fact that he finally got the recognition he deserved as "the worst possible person." Jeff Jarrett can go to hell.
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Mar 31, 2012 08:18
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Sikki Nixx posted:That is my absolute favorite Cornette quote, and sums up my feelings about a lot of "hyperviolent" stuff. While I wasn't a fan during ECW's heyday, I've gone back, and watched a lot of it, and the only stuff that I really liked with no context is the technical stuff, with guys like Malenko and Guerrero. The Dreamer/Raven matches do nothing for me because without seeing the story play out, it's violence for shock value, which is pointless. And that's coming from a big Raven mark. There's a reason stuff like Flair/Steamboat still holds up today when stuff like Dreamer/Raven doesn't. Good wrestling is always good, regardless of context. Yeah, ECW is very much a 'had to be there' kind of deal. Whenever I go back and watch my tapes, outside of some great technical stuff from guys like Malenko, Storm, Candido, Lynn and a couple others, it's almost purely for nostalgia. Most of the hardcore stuff doesn't really hold up on its own. Unless it's Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, then it's always awesome.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:27
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That's odd. I watched the entire ECW PPV back-catalogue in 2010 and thoroughly enjoyed it, maybe it's because I don't really keep in touch with the indies but the cards were a hell of a lot more entertaining/solid than WWE at the time. Edit: I'm Australian too, so I never had the chance to watch ECW television, so it was mostly without context.
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Mar 31, 2012 10:03
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Well it's not to say it can't be enjoyed otherwise, but it certainly appeals to a niche, and following the stories does help quite a bit in feuds where the matches really weren't all that great, like the aforementioned Dreamer/Raven feud.
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Mar 31, 2012 10:06
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Although I'm sure a lot of it had to do with seeing something that wasn't worked in the WWE style for the first time in years, it's amazing watching something like old ECW the moves and spots that I used to remember seeing on a weekly basis that WWE has removed/forbidden.
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Mar 31, 2012 10:58
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Cardboard Box posted:Well it's not to say it can't be enjoyed otherwise, but it certainly appeals to a niche, and following the stories does help quite a bit in feuds where the matches really weren't all that great, like the aforementioned Dreamer/Raven feud. At the same time, the stuff I like most is tight mat work, with lots of counters, and jockeying for leverage ala Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Dena Malenko and Chris Benoit, so a good portion of ECW didn't really fly with that mindset. That's not to say a hardcore match can't be good, it just needs proper setup for me to invest in it. Granted, if I was watching the old Dreamer/Raven stuff when I was 14, I'd be in Heaven. That said, I'd take a good technical, or Cruiserweight match over that now any day.
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Apr 1, 2012 20:16
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Each to their own. I just love ECW because of how tight the storytelling is and how well put togther the TV show is. And the fact they taped once a month at a Bingo hall and made it work somehow.
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Apr 2, 2012 07:23
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