Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

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NatasDog: Feb 9, 2009

I think that's the most annoying thing about facebook as a social medium, people can just delete their terrible poo poo when they get called out on it; that or delete any posts debunking their shitposts depending on how reprehensible the person in question is. I very rarely have anyone concede a debate no matter how civil it remains, they either double down and delete my posts and their responses, or delete the entire post if they think they 'lost' the debate or change their mind in order to not look as terrible.

At the very least I'd like to have posts to other people's walls only removable by the OP. Otherwise you end up with people retracting their poo poo posts and one guy left with a bunch of responses to nonexistent posts. I guess it lends itself pretty well to people with short memories, like those who tend to use facebook in the first place; but it doesn't mean that Facebook should go out of its way to enable that sort of behavior.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 20:22

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:09

The Rokstar: Aug 19, 2002; by FactsAreUseless

NatasDog posted:

I think that's the most annoying thing about facebook as a social medium, people can just delete their terrible poo poo when they get called out on it; that or delete any posts debunking their shitposts depending on how reprehensible the person in question is. I very rarely have anyone concede a debate no matter how civil it remains, they either double down and delete my posts and their responses, or delete the entire post if they think they 'lost' the debate or change their mind in order to not look as terrible.

At the very least I'd like to have posts to other people's walls only removable by the OP. Otherwise you end up with people retracting their poo poo posts and one guy left with a bunch of responses to nonexistent posts. I guess it lends itself pretty well to people with short memories, like those who tend to use facebook in the first place; but it doesn't mean that Facebook should go out of its way to enable that sort of behavior.

What's your Facebook, I have some porn I'd like to share with you

Don't get me wrong, I get your frustration, but making it so that a person can't delete stuff on their own wall is a horrible idea.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 22:54

ants on my cum rag: Sep 2, 2011; "Oh God you got the spray gun, DO NOT LOSE IT, you seriously better not screw this up, I'm not kidding"
~~The Battle Hymn of the Contra Tiger Mother~~

The Rokstar posted:

What's your Facebook, I have some porn I'd like to share with you

Don't get me wrong, I get your frustration, but making it so that a person can't delete stuff on their own wall is a horrible idea.

To be honest, I always take a screenshot whenever I enter a debate that I know the person will delete. So as soon as someone posts something racist or ignorant, I screenshot it after every reply and share it on my wall afterwards. You might think this is weird but I take racism very seriously and I won't let people hide behind "oh it's not on my wall therefore it never happened".

# ? Mar 29, 2012 03:38

Amalek: Jan 3, 2012

The Worst Muslim posted:

To be honest, I always take a screenshot whenever I enter a debate that I know the person will delete. So as soon as someone posts something racist or ignorant, I screenshot it after every reply and share it on my wall afterwards. You might think this is weird but I take racism very seriously and I won't let people hide behind "oh it's not on my wall therefore it never happened".

Thats a very good thing. Justice must be served.
I had a guy I knew online go off about Obama and started using racial slurs like he lost his mind.
For some reason these people dont understand how the internet/facebook works
I copy pasted the chat to about 30 peoeple on his freinds list, hilarity ensued and justice was served.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 05:27

NatasDog: Feb 9, 2009

The Rokstar posted:

What's your Facebook, I have some porn I'd like to share with you

Don't get me wrong, I get your frustration, but making it so that a person can't delete stuff on their own wall is a horrible idea.

Yeah, I meant to say the OP or the owner of said wall, but I was in a hurry at work and didn't proofread quite as well as I should have.

That said, my buddy's equally terrible wife decided to post saying "Its more than that..." complete with ellipsis and all, so I stole Sarion's post wholesale (Thanks for that, man) and I'm waiting to see if she doubles down or just plain refuses to reply to me.

Edit: And the plot sickens. My buddy decided to reply in defense of Zimmerman's standing his ground, here's the exchange. He lives in FL too, so he apparently feels compelled to defend Zimmerman's story.

My Facebook Friend posted:

my whole issue with all of this is the fact that if he was seriously only protecting himself, and he is charged, then we will feel that we cannot protect ourselves and anyone can just do whatever they please to whoever they want to and there will be no repercussions for their actions! there is so many different sides to the story, yes it sucks that a kid died, i can only imagine how that would feel, my oldest being 14 now.
about an hour ago

Natas Dog posted:

Dude, did you even listen to the 911 recordings? The guy literally stalked the kid, even after the 911 operator told him to stop following him. At that point he stopped 'standing his ground' and started committing a criminal act in my eyes and the eyes of pretty much any sane person. Anyone who views it differently is either woefully misinformed or a goddamn sociopath.
about an hour ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

yes, i heard them, but, i think male testoterone got the best of both of them, but some witnesses reported that he did go back to his suv during the 911 call, and he walked up to him and asked him what his fu##ing prob was and punched him in the nose, dropped him to the ground and started bashing his head into the ground. also, they were said to be fighting over the gun and it went off. so many conflicting reports, but a lot of the media down here is trying to portay this as he hunted him down and shot him executionary style, but is that the case. and now we have all these drat politicians trying to turn this into something that it's not, and exploiting this poor kids killing!!!
about an hour ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

do i think it's fair that this kid was shot dead, no, but he didnt have the right to attack another man, and pound his head into the ground, it was zimmerman that was on the ground screaming out for help, not the kid, according to quite a few witnesses.
about an hour ago

Natas Dog posted:

Having a gun does not give you license to kill an unarmed man, and people are rightfully pissed that a kid was killed for having the audacity to walk through Zimmerman's neighborhood. None of this would have gone down if Zimmerman hadn't initiated it in the first place. To blame the victim in this case is tantamount to blaming a rape victim because she shouldn't have gone out dressed like that if she didn't want to be raped.
about an hour ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

yes, that's true, and if that was all the argument was, this wouldn't be the media event that it is, all the news and papers down here are making it a racial thing, which i don't believe it was.
57 minutes ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

both were in the wrong, both of them were trying to act like badasses, one payed the ultimate price, one has to live with his choice for the rest of his life, but, black panther party putting money out for this mans head, come on!!!
54 minutes ago

Natas Dog posted:

Yeah, I'm sure zimmerman made it a point to follow every "rear end in a top hat" wearing a hoodie in his neighborhood. He just never had the chance to shoot them.
54 minutes ago

Natas Dog posted:

On the Black Panthers thing, if you allow zimmerman to walk after playing vigilante and killing a kid; why should no one else be allowed to take the law into their own hands and deliver vigilante revenge? It's a vicious circle, and it's being perpetuated by allowing Zimmerman to walk.
51 minutes ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

yes this guy had no business carrying a gun, due to the fact that he is neighborhood watch, but he did have the right to ask him what he was doing, even in the 911 calls he said he was acting weird, only one who knows what was really going on with that would be dead, but that doesn't give him the right to attack him and pound his head into the ground like that, where would it have stopped if not for the gun being fired, zimmerman dead??? then would this even be a news story, prob would never heard of the crime outside of north florida!!!
38 minutes ago

Natas Dog posted:

I propose the opposite would have happened. Trayvon would probably be in jail right now for murder, even if he'd claimed self defense.
28 minutes ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

true, but zimmerman would be dead, and thats why he pulled his gun in self defense, he had that fear of dying, and he prob thought the gun would scare him off but then they fought over it and it went off.... so some witnesses say, who knows the 100% truth, only god... charged for murder one, no, but brought in and at least questioned, definately... and let him be judged...
22 minutes ago

Natas Dog posted:

Let's get this straight, there are 0 witnesses to the actual shooting. Not a single person was present when the incident was initiated, and no one was present when the gun went off. There is some sketchy audio from 911 calls that were made during the scuffle, but the closest thing they have is a person who heard it all from inside their house through an open window. On top of that, pretty much every witness aside from Zimmerman claims it was Trayvon calling for help, not Zimmerman. I'm basing my observations off of this Miami Herald Article; if you have any sources that dispute the claims made in this article, please share them: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446/trayvon-martin-case.html
12 minutes ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

and like i said the media is making this a racial thing... if anything it should be a how law enforcement handles things horribly, poo poo, right here in port saint lucie, where I live, two younger black guys were fighting at the basketball courts, next to a park where there was 100 little league players and spectators right next to them, ran into a church parking lot, shot the one guy a couple time, ran off to his freinds car, kid died, still have yet to charge, or even bring the guy in for questioning and they know who it was!!!
10 minutes ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

there saying on the news here that there were about three people close to the incedent that saw it from a distance, i think on tc palm in west palm reported that... who knows, but an older man who heard the noise behind his house called 911 and said he saw a hooded figure bashing a guys head on the ground and then he heard a shot fired but didnt see the gun... but like i said, noone will ever know 100% what really went down! I doubt even the shooter can remember everything... poo poo happens so fast..
8 minutes ago

My Facebook Friend posted:

oh now there all saying it was zimmerman who was screaming out for help...who knows
5 minutes ago

Natas Dog posted:

I'm going to need more than that if I'm going to be able to form any sort of opinion. Going back and forth with hearsay isn't getting us anywhere, and we're far off the mark from where I originally commented. The picture you shared as "intresting" is still race baiting, and is still nowhere near equivalent to the Trayvon Martin case. In fact, the one you linked is far more heinous and far easier to pass judgement on since the perpetrators are all in prison right this moment, just like Zimmerman should be.

My Facebook Friend posted:

that was a shared link from a friend, i just hit share without reading into the story, my bad...lol... shoulda read into his link first, but that is how the media down here has been going with the whole trayvon martin case, back and forth, and heresay, some syuff they say was made up, you know how people are!!! Now they were sayingon the news yesterday, spike lee gave out this guys address in sanford, fl, but it was wrong and this 70 year old cople had to flee there home... it is going into a media frenzy!! the ex naacp leader even shunned jesse jackson saying he is going about this in the wrong way, and a lot of leaders are exploiting this kids death...
39 minutes ago

Natas Dog posted:

Here's the best source I have for actual facts on the matter. Mother Jones does an excellent job providing sources for everything they report, so you can actually get the info behind the story instead of just taking their word for it. http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained

The Spike Lee thing is messed up and should never have happened. But we're once again veering off topic. That said, if this had been treated like a manslaughter or second degree murder case as it should have been, we wouldn't be dealing with any of this crap. Sanford's got a pretty sketchy record when it comes to handling high profile cases, so it's understandable if people feel like vigilante retribution is the only recourse they have left. Until they change the way they conduct themselves it can only get worse.

In case you're wondering what I'm talking about; Anthony Raimondo, the first supervisor on the scene, was also the supervisor who dropped the ball a couple years back when a police officer's son got caught on tape beating a homeless guy. Here's the relevant text from the MoJo article:

Why is the history of the Sanford Police Department in question?

Sanford PD's officers have suffered a series of public missteps in recent years, according to local reporters. In 2006 two private security guards�the son of a Sanford police officer, and a volunteer for the department�killed a black teen with a single gunshot in his back. Even though they admitted to never identifying themselves, the guards were released without charges. In 2009, after an assailant allegedly attempted to rape a child in her home, the department was called to task for sitting on the suspect's fingerprints, delaying identification and pursuit of the attacker.

Perhaps the most significant incident occurred in late 2010: Justin Collison, the son of a Sanford PD lieutenant, sucker-punched a homeless black man outside a bar, and officers on the scene released Collison without charges. He eventually surrendered after video of the incident materialized online. The police chief at the time was ultimately forced into retirement. "Bottom line, we didn't do our job that night," a Police Department representative told WFTV of the incident. The TV station later learned that the Sanford patrol sergeant in charge on the night of Collison's assault, Anthony Raimondo, was also the first supervisor on the scene of Trayvon Martin's shooting death.

As a result of these incidents and their initial handling of Martin's death, the Sanford Police Department has been under increased scrutiny. Martin's parents have suggested they might call for Police Chief Bill Lee to resign.

NatasDog fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 29, 2012

# ? Mar 29, 2012 13:57

Orkiec: Dec 28, 2008; My gut, huh?

How do I even argue against this? I'm bad with arguments.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 21:21

archangelwar: Oct 28, 2004; Teaching Moments

Orkiec posted:

How do I even argue against this? I'm bad with arguments.

Oh man, Google is in on the conspiracy, hiding their gigabytes of 'current' pictures of Zimmerman.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 21:23

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

That black teenager was found not to be Travyon Martin and the original conservative blogger who posted it in fact made an apology about it, you can start there.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 21:25

zeroprime: Mar 25, 2006; Words go here.; Fun Shoe

Just ask them if they think the second picture of Treyvon really looks like him, because you don't think it does. They either have to acknowledge that it's not him or you can link them to any of the many news articles that point out that the bottom half of that image comes from the neo-nazi website stormfront, and is of a different person, but you're sorry that they're spreading racist neo-nazi propaganda because "those people" all look alike to them.

Don't just outright say it's not him, because then they can hide some of their racism behind plausible deniability. Force them to show it proudly before calling them on their bullshit.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 21:31

Orkiec: Dec 28, 2008; My gut, huh?

After he responds I was going to post this link [this]. Does anybody have any more credible-looking websites? Not saying that it's wrong but the more famous and reputable the site the better.

EDIT: He said this.

guy posted:

Fairly sure. Those were both supposedly pulled from their respective Facebook pages. The thing is I'm trying to find more pictures but all you can find are the pictures of the innocent little kid and the mugshot.

Orkiec fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Mar 29, 2012

# ? Mar 29, 2012 21:38

zeroprime: Mar 25, 2006; Words go here.; Fun Shoe

Here is a good breakdown of the neo-nazi propaganda being spread http://www.streetwisepundit.com/wrong-trayvon-martin-photo-on-facebook.html

Point out that people aren't upset because a white/hispanic man shot a black kid, they're mad because a kid is dead, the police know exactly who killed the kid, and there have been no arrests. It took almost a month of the police doing nothing before protests finally got the Federal and State government to take a look at the case. The police didn't even bother to figure out who the dead kid was, he was just another dead (and black) John Doe that didn't warrant their time.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 21:57

Sarion: Dec 24, 2003

Even if that picture was him, it shouldn't matter. What matters is that he was a loving human being who was killed for no reason, and they're siding with the murderer, and saying "look at this picture, just got what was coming to him!" That makes them terrible terrible people.

Basically, they sided with the shooter from the start and are now just grasping for straws to find something, anything to justify their view. The fact that they're having to turn to Stormfront should be a big clue of just how far they've fallen.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 23:44

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Conservatives Losing Trust in Science, Study Finds

http://news.yahoo.com/conservatives-losing-trust-science-study-finds-114401347.html

:dawkins101:

# ? Mar 30, 2012 04:09

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Orkiec posted:

After he responds I was going to post this link [this]. Does anybody have any more credible-looking websites? Not saying that it's wrong but the more famous and reputable the site the better.

EDIT: He said this.

I was going to post another picture of him I haven't seen in this thread but honestly it feels super ghoulish. His stuff's all over the internet now because of racist fucks but suffice it to say in none of them does he look like anything other than a loving child. Not one picture shows him to be an unthinking killing machine that can only be stopped with righteous lead. Gawker has an article about the new lot of stuff being published if you care.

Sarion posted:

Even if that picture was him, it shouldn't matter. What matters is that he was a loving human being who was killed for no reason, and they're siding with the murderer, and saying "look at this picture, just got what was coming to him!" That makes them terrible terrible people.

Basically, they sided with the shooter from the start and are now just grasping for straws to find something, anything to justify their view. The fact that they're having to turn to Stormfront should be a big clue of just how far they've fallen.

This also.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 04:44

wormil: Sep 12, 2002; Hulk will smoke you!

quote:

I can�t believe what has happened to our Country, have all of our so called leader lost their minds???

MAJOR HASSAN vs SSGT ROBERT BALES

This from a (perhaps politically incorrect but sentimentally correct) USMC (ret.) friend of one of my favorite Navy squadron mates.

�After reading the headlines about the US soldier who shot up Afghanistan civilians, I couldn�t help noticing an irony. There is all this clamor (SecDef) to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind his having suffered a traumatic brain injury. Yet this Major Hassan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming �Allahu Akbar�, still hasn�t stood trial, and they are still debating whether he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive: to slay as many infidels as possible. So, we have a guy in a war zone who cracks, and he must be executed immediately. But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome from listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience. Two and a half years later, they still haven�t tried the murderous bastard. WE ARE SO LOST~~!!!�

PS: Let alone the fact that the burning of a BOOK caused the death of several US Soldiers, but, I guess that�s ok!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I'm overreacting but this kind of stuff just pisses me off. This guy Bales was a broker who joined the Army to escape charges of fraud then murdered 17 people, 9 of them kids, while they slept. I don't think he deserves being made a hero by anyone.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 09:00

Dr Christmas: Apr 24, 2010; Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻

The whole furor over not-Trayvon Martin's Facebook photo makes me think that there's a bad joke about criminalizing the kissy duckface thing somewhere in all this.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 09:31

Gourd of Taste: Sep 11, 2006; by Ralp

wormil posted:

Maybe I'm overreacting but this kind of stuff just pisses me off. This guy Bales was a broker who joined the Army to escape charges of fraud then murdered 17 people, 9 of them kids, while they slept. I don't think he deserves being made a hero by anyone.

Is there clamour to try him quickly and execute him? Maybe I'm insulated from it or something but I haven't really heard that.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 14:07

Sarion: Dec 24, 2003

They moved him to a base in Kuwait to be held until there's a trial. That's it. Nothing has really started as far as actually trying him.

Major Hassad's trial is this June. They're pursuing the death penalty.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 14:52

archangelwar: Oct 28, 2004; Teaching Moments

Sarion posted:

They moved him to a base in Kuwait to be held until there's a trial. That's it. Nothing has really started as far as actually trying him.

Major Hassad's trial is this June. They're pursuing the death penalty.

And of course there is a loving difference anyway, that has nothing to do with the color of their skin or their religious beliefs. Hassad killed US soldiers. Bales killed Afghani civilians. Which one of these is more likely to be in the world news headlines?

# ? Mar 30, 2012 15:01

Nth Doctor: Sep 7, 2010; Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!

One of the little old ladies in my choir sent this to me today: (Format recreated as faithfully as possible)

quote:

Arizona Governor Jan Brewer vs the Phoenix Suns owner

The owner of the Phoenix Suns basketball team,
Robert Sarver, came out strongly opposing AZ's new immigration laws.

Arizona 's Governor, Jan Brewer,
released the following statement in response to Sarver's criticism of the new law:

"What if the owners of the Suns discovered that hordes of people were sneaking into games without paying? What if they had a good idea who the gate-crashers are but the ushers and security personnel were not allowed to ask these folks to produce their ticket stubs , thus non-paying attendees couldn't be ejected.
Furthermore, what if Suns' ownership was expected to provide those who sneaked in with complimentary eats and drink? And what if, on those days when a gate-crasher became ill or injured, the Suns had to provide free medical care and shelter?"

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer

Our relationship has never been close. I'd chalk up her sending this to me as another aspect of her being stuck in the Eternal September. Outside of pure error, I'm very :wtc:

about how she thought I would want this xenophobic claptrap. In fact, the only thing I've ever shared with her politically was a completely sourced spreadsheet pointing out a meme she shared on Facebook about congressional salary and retirement benefits was completely false.

Does anyone have good ammunition to take apart this argument?

Ninja edit: formatting.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 15:58

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Nth Doctor posted:

One of the little old ladies in my choir sent this to me today: (Format recreated as faithfully as possible)

Our relationship has never been close. I'd chalk up her sending this to me as another aspect of her being stuck in the Eternal September. Outside of pure error, I'm very about how she thought I would want this xenophobic claptrap. In fact, the only thing I've ever shared with her politically was a completely sourced spreadsheet pointing out a meme she shared on Facebook about congressional salary and retirement benefits was completely false.

Does anyone have good ammunition to take apart this argument?

Ninja edit: formatting.

Sure. All of those examples are voluntary things that people with disposable income do. Unless there's a law passed requiring all Americans to own and carry ID (which ring far too close to "show me your papers") there's no legal way to prove who's legal and who's not, and assuming people with a certain look are illegal is profiling which is profoundly un-American.

Also you don't need an ID to use a debit card, thats why they have PINs, and thats why poor people don't have credit cards, besides the credit rating and minimum income it requires an ID to use (technically) and if you're amongst the poorest Americans you probably don't have a drivers license because you can't afford a car and you certainly don't have a passport. Is she then assuming that all people too poor to need an ID must be illegal and should be discriminated against?

Also, ask for a source on the 68% figure, because those are always hilarious.

43% of Goons will just skim this post. Should be 100% BET YOU'LL READ IT!!!

Edit: In summation, all of her examples don't work if you're too poor to own a car, fly or have health insurance. Which describes a lot of very poor people. People should not be assumed to be illegal immigrants because you're poor.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:05

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I have never in my life shown ID at a doctor's office. What the christ.

I also love how the same people who were against motor/voter laws are now demanding driver's licenses be shown to vote.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:07

DarkHorse: Dec 13, 2006; Nap Ghost

Doesn't that image even argue against the premise? That is, an illegal immigrant without identification can't do any of the things listed, and thus more likely to be living a lovely borderline existence anyway?

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:10

KillerBean: May 5, 2004; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Why should people in this county illegally, be exempt!!!!!

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:13

Nth Doctor: Sep 7, 2010; Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!

jojoinnit posted:

Awesomeness.

Thanks for being a lot more eloquent than my initial reaction. I'll craft a reply later this afternoon and will update as necessary.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:17

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Nth Doctor posted:

Thanks for being a lot more eloquent than my initial reaction. I'll craft a reply later this afternoon and will update as necessary.

Thanks! You thought that was eloquent? I can be eloquent but that wasn't it, I was just trying to give you easy refutations.

Forgot to point out the college one, which is laughable because if you're not rich enough to need an ID you're probably not filling out many college applications. I've never been to college in America but at what point do they ask for an ID? Do you mail it it with the application? Do you have to show proof of citizenship on the first day of class?

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:22

Asnorban: Jun 13, 2003; Professor Gavelsmoke

This has been making the Facebook rounds for me. Enjoy the high quality, the spooky image, and all of the actual things Obama has done to warrant this.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:35

modig: Aug 20, 2002

Only 68% will send this on? Dear god, it will take nearly 10 minutes to show up on every facebook wall in the world 8 times with that forward rate. Why can't we spread this message more effectively!!!!

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:41

24-7 Urkel Cosplay: Feb 12, 2003

Asnorban posted:

This has been making the Facebook rounds for me. Enjoy the high quality, the spooky image, and all of the actual things Obama has done to warrant this.

Well that girl didn't actually make those legos, they probably belong to the daycare center so they can do what they want with them, including making sure the child shares them.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:42

Nth Doctor: Sep 7, 2010; Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!

jojoinnit posted:

Thanks! You thought that was eloquent? I can be eloquent but that wasn't it, I was just trying to give you easy refutations.

Forgot to point out the college one, which is laughable because if you're not rich enough to need an ID you're probably not filling out many college applications. I've never been to college in America but at what point do they ask for an ID? Do you mail it it with the application? Do you have to show proof of citizenship on the first day of class?

Considering my first reaction was along the lines of "Nuh-UH! You're wrong and horrible", yeah. More eloquent :thumbsup:

As for college applications, I don't recall ever having needed to do that, though I started undergrad back in '04. Mrs. Doctor is just finishing her first year of Grad School, maybe she remembers having to flash her ID at some point.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 17:26

Kosmonaut: Mar 9, 2009

Realistic version: girl takes all the legos, tells the other kids if they want to play with them they have to build what she tells them to. Girl establishes a lego hegemony where the other kids internalize her excuses for why she should hold dominion over all of legodom. Obama shows up and very gently suggests that maybe she should share just a few of them, she becomes livid, photoshops the above picture, and has a "grassroots" movement in her payroll spread it around.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 17:28

Grem: Mar 29, 2004; It's how her species communicates

Nth Doctor posted:

One of the little old ladies in my choir sent this to me today: (Format recreated as faithfully as possible)

Our relationship has never been close. I'd chalk up her sending this to me as another aspect of her being stuck in the Eternal September. Outside of pure error, I'm very about how she thought I would want this xenophobic claptrap. In fact, the only thing I've ever shared with her politically was a completely sourced spreadsheet pointing out a meme she shared on Facebook about congressional salary and retirement benefits was completely false.

Does anyone have good ammunition to take apart this argument?

Ninja edit: formatting.

Just say "If being an illegal immigrant means you don't have to do any of those things maybe you should try saying you're an illegal immigrant to the next cop that pulls you over and see if you get out of the ticket"

In fact, in any of those instances, illegal immigrants don't get to be exempt because they say "I'm illegal"

# ? Mar 30, 2012 19:03

Pedestrian Xing: Jul 19, 2007

My former roommate who has turned into a super objectivist since then recently posted this on his wall:

"Easiest illustration of National Health Care.
Also, Paul is a dick."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/objectivist/2011/03/10/the-road-to-socialized-medicine-is-paved-with-preexisting-conditions-part-2/

I don't really want to get into a debate with him since previous ones have ended with him just ignoring everything and walking away, but how do you respond to this? All I could think of was "well, doesn't that pretty much make the case for UHC?". I have a feeling he would just push the "healthcare isn't a right" talking point though.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 19:17

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

quote:

�I can�t force you to purchase my insurance,� you say calmly. �I would like to help you�part of the reason I started this business was to help people meet one of their most vital needs. But the fact is, I�m running a business, not a charity.�

I'd like to help you but you've got to make me profit from helping you or I won't.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 19:24

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Forbes posted:

�But it�s not my fault I have preexisting conditions.�
�It�s also not mine.�
Paul sits down slowly without looking at you. �So what am I supposed to do? Just go without insurance?�
�I wish you�d come to see me earlier�almost all my clients plan ahead for just this sort of possibility,

So when should I have planned ahead for a condition I was born with? When I was a fetus? A sperm and egg?

# ? Mar 30, 2012 19:26

JoshTheStampede: Sep 8, 2004; come at me bro

Doctor Spaceman posted:

So when should I have planned ahead for a condition I was born with? When I was a fetus? A sperm and egg?

Personal Responsibility begins at conception.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 19:33

ShiftyEyedRaccoon: Jun 4, 2011

Has anyone received the "80% of millionaires are first generation" line before?

One of my friends posted the tired old "Economic professor tries Obama's socialism" chain e-mail on Facebook and I pointed out that it was a stupid analogy, focusing mostly on the fact that the amount of work you put in tends to correlate well with the grade you receive but does not correlate at all with how you do economically. Ultimately, it led to me receiving the above line, which I hadn't heard before.

When I pressed him for a source, he directed me to Google, which just gives me The Millionaire Next Door and a bunch of webpages citing The Millionaire Next Door. Assuming it's even true, there are a lot of problems I can see with this that ultimately have to do with it being a less useful way of tracking wealth mobility (for instance, it treats someone going from a net worth of 0 to a net worth of 1M the same as someone starting at a net worth of 900K) but I wanted to see if anyone else had more information on this statistic before I replied.

On a related note, I remember someone posting an article that concluded that the single best predictor of a person's economic success was that person's parents' economic success. Does anyone have a link to that article?

# ? Mar 30, 2012 19:34

Nth Doctor: Sep 7, 2010; Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!

Nth Doctor posted:

Considering my first reaction was along the lines of "Nuh-UH! You're wrong and horrible", yeah. More eloquent

As for college applications, I don't recall ever having needed to do that, though I started undergrad back in '04. Mrs. Doctor is just finishing her first year of Grad School, maybe she remembers having to flash her ID at some point.

Nth Doctor posted:

Lady in my choir,
All of those examples are voluntary things that people with disposable income do. Unless there's a law passed requiring all Americans to own and carry ID (which rings far too close to "show me your papers") there's no legal way to prove who is legal and who is not, and assuming people with a certain look are illegal is profiling which is profoundly un-American and in violation of the Fourth Amendment.

You don't need an ID to use a debit card, that's why they have PINs, and that's why poor people don't have credit cards, besides the credit rating and minimum income it requires an ID to use (technically) and if you're amongst the poorest Americans you probably don't have a drivers license because you don't need one: you can't afford a car and you certainly don't have a passport. Are you then assuming that all people too poor to need an ID must be illegal and should be discriminated against?

In fact, all of your examples don't work if you're too poor to own a car, fly or have health insurance. Which describes a lot of very poor people. People should not be assumed to be illegal immigrants because you're poor.

Specifically:
Yesterday I was at the Doctor's office and was not asked for ID.
When I applied for college (admittedly nearly a decade ago) I don't remember being required to show my drivers license as a condition for application. As Mrs. Doctor applied for grad school just over a year ago, whether or not she had to show ID will be much fresher in her mind. I'll be sure to ask her.

If being an illegal immigrant means one doesn't have to do any of those things maybe we all should try saying we're an illegal immigrant when we get pulled over and see if that gets us out of a ticket.

In fact, in any of those instances, illegal immigrants don't get to be exempt because they say "I'm illegal".

While it seems convenient, I actually did have a Doctor's appointment yesterday.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 19:57

jojoinnit: Dec 13, 2010; Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

I think that should work. Will you post her response? _{_{(There won't be one because she doesn't want a debate she wants you to agree with her)}}

# ? Mar 30, 2012 20:09

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:09

Mo_Steel: Mar 7, 2008; Let's Clock Into The Sunset Together; Fun Shoe

ShiftyEyedRaccoon posted:

Has anyone received the "80% of millionaires are first generation" line before?

One of my friends posted the tired old "Economic professor tries Obama's socialism" chain e-mail on Facebook and I pointed out that it was a stupid analogy, focusing mostly on the fact that the amount of work you put in tends to correlate well with the grade you receive but does not correlate at all with how you do economically. Ultimately, it led to me receiving the above line, which I hadn't heard before.

When I pressed him for a source, he directed me to Google, which just gives me The Millionaire Next Door and a bunch of webpages citing The Millionaire Next Door. Assuming it's even true, there are a lot of problems I can see with this that ultimately have to do with it being a less useful way of tracking wealth mobility (for instance, it treats someone going from a net worth of 0 to a net worth of 1M the same as someone starting at a net worth of 900K) but I wanted to see if anyone else had more information on this statistic before I replied.

On a related note, I remember someone posting an article that concluded that the single best predictor of a person's economic success was that person's parents' economic success. Does anyone have a link to that article?

The article you're thinking of is probably this one which compares intergenerational occupation, income and wealth changes in the United States and those rates against a few international comparisons near the end.

If your friend thinks hard work is the primary correlating indicator of economic success would he care to explain why there are only 4 black billionaires among the 1,210 billionaires in existence, a significantly smaller proportion by race than the general population of black people (0.3% vs. 8% worldwide)?

Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 30, 2012

# ? Mar 30, 2012 20:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

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