Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Dominion posted:

Personal Responsibility begins at conception.

I've seen people say that while it isn't your fault, it is your parents fault for not considering the possibility of a child being born with a physical or mental issue. Basically that it's immoral (or at the very least, irresponsible) to have kids if you can't afford to pay any birth-related medical bills for life.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Anubis
Oct 9, 2003

It's hard to keep sand out of ears this big.
Fun Shoe

Countblanc posted:

I've seen people say that while it isn't your fault, it is your parents fault for not considering the possibility of a child being born with a physical or mental issue. Basically that it's immoral (or at the very least, irresponsible) to have kids if you can't afford to pay any birth-related medical bills for life.

Poor people shouldn't have kids because they can't afford to take care of them properly. Abortions should be illegal, those unborn babies deserve a fair chance at life. Birth control shouldn't be covered under health insurance, that goes against my beliefs.

It's like the circle of horribleness or something.

ShiftyEyedRaccoon
Jun 4, 2011

Mo_Steel posted:

The article you're thinking of is probably this one which compares intergenerational occupation, income and wealth changes in the United States and those rates against a few international comparisons near the end.

If your friend thinks hard work is the primary correlating indicator of economic success would he care to explain why there are only 4 black billionaires among the 1,210 billionaires in existence, a significantly smaller proportion by race than the general population of black people (0.3% vs. 8% worldwide)?

He's now claiming that "hard work = success" is not what he's arguing, which doesn't really make sense. I mean, he never explicitly stated as such, but I've been arguing "hard work != success" and he's been saying that I'm wrong, so what else was I suppose to conclude? I'm wondering if he doesn't actually understand what his position is.

That article isn't what I saw before, but it is fantastic. Thanks for the link.

synthetik
Feb 28, 2007

I forgive you, Will. Will you forgive me?
I would in the medical field, and yes, we ask you for ID when you come in. It's so we can bill you or your insurance, not to make sure you are a citizen.

jojoinnit
Dec 13, 2010

Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

synthetik posted:

I would in the medical field, and yes, we ask you for ID when you come in. It's so we can bill you or your insurance, not to make sure you are a citizen.

So what happens if you can't produce any ID, either because you don't have one or because you were injured when you weren't carrying it and were rushed straight to the hospital?

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


jojoinnit posted:

So what happens if you can't produce any ID, either because you don't have one or because you were injured when you weren't carrying it and were rushed straight to the hospital?

As I understand it, here in the US you cannot be turned away from a hospital for emergency care. That rushed straight to the hospital thing is obviously an extenuating circumstance.

Edit:

jojoinnit posted:

I think that should work. Will you post her response? (There won't be one because she doesn't want a debate she wants you to agree with her)
Absolutely. If she doesn't reply, I am seeing her on Sunday and will ask her directly about it.

ultimateforce
Apr 25, 2008

SKINNY JEANS CANT HOLD BACK THIS ARC
In another effort to weed out my Facebook friends list I just updated my status update that all Baby Boomers should be put on an island and murdered. Hoping for a melt down so I can delete people.

Got any other good updates for me? (This seems like a good thread to find a wedge issue.)

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Defensive reply ahoy!

quote:

Well, I guess I should never pass on things that people send me, as someone always seems to have a way to prove me wrong. Sorry. This isn't the first time someone from church has let me know about something I passed on. Thank you.

I wonder if the one I sent about an hour ago about the National Guard was wrong too.

downout
Jul 6, 2009

ultimateforce posted:

In another effort to weed out my Facebook friends list I just updated my status update that all Baby Boomers should be put on an island and murdered. Hoping for a melt down so I can delete people.

Got any other good updates for me? (This seems like a good thread to find a wedge issue.)

Trolling your friends list to clean it out? This seems rather counterproductive. I don't necessarily agree with all of the people on my facebook, but I'd rather have them on the friends list. At least then someone is refuting their bullshit. It's not about persuading them, it's for those watching.

myron cope
Apr 21, 2009

Nth Doctor posted:

Defensive reply ahoy!

"I guess I should never pass on things that people send me"

If only people actually learned this lesson :(

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


myron cope posted:

"I guess I should never pass on things that people send me"

If only people actually learned this lesson :(

She wanted to be part of that 86% though! They seem like cool people. Aside from the xenophobia.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 21 days!

Nth Doctor posted:

Defensive reply ahoy!

Reply: "Probably"

synthetik
Feb 28, 2007

I forgive you, Will. Will you forgive me?

jojoinnit posted:

So what happens if you can't produce any ID, either because you don't have one or because you were injured when you weren't carrying it and were rushed straight to the hospital?

It was kind of answered, but I work for a lab. You would only come to see me if a test had been ordered by a doctor, we don't do walk-ins, check-ups, or emergency service. If you are coming to see me, you need to have your blood drawn, are taking a drug test for employment, or something similar. Someone has to pay for the tests that we are running, and we have to verify the identity of the person that is having the work done. This helps us cut down on insurance fraud, medicare fraud, and people taking drug tests for friends.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.

Pedestrian Xing posted:

"Easiest illustration of National Health Care.
Also, Paul is a dick."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/objectivist/2011/03/10/the-road-to-socialized-medicine-is-paved-with-preexisting-conditions-part-2/

This kind of slipped by but I love how the pretzels the writer twists himself into trying to avoid that the ultimate answer to Paul is "Drive yourself into crippling debt that you will never recover from or lay down and die".

The fact he claims its like taking a home loan is such a perfect example. "Why, you're right, I should take out the second equivalent of a home loan, that will definitely not seriously damage my standard of living or bankrupt me."

zeroprime
Mar 25, 2006

Words go here.

Fun Shoe

Nth Doctor posted:

Defensive reply ahoy!

I just realized, you just ruined a perfectly good opportunity to start spreading the most crazy and bogus forwards through her. You could have just kept pushing the envelope further and further into crazy-town to see what she would forward. Heck, maybe one or two would have made their way back to you eventually.

Send her something like this instead:
A lot of e-mails like this are usually bogus and if you're worried about anyone e-mailing back to tell you it's wrong, you can do a quick check at a site like snopes.com to make sure the e-mail you just opened isn't made up. Snopes is really great for those "too good to be true" type e-mails and stories that are partially true, because they point out what is made up but also what is true, often giving you links to the original news articles.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


zeroprime posted:

I just realized, you just ruined a perfectly good opportunity to start spreading the most crazy and bogus forwards through her. You could have just kept pushing the envelope further and further into crazy-town to see what she would forward. Heck, maybe one or two would have made their way back to you eventually.

Send her something like this instead:
A lot of e-mails like this are usually bogus and if you're worried about anyone e-mailing back to tell you it's wrong, you can do a quick check at a site like snopes.com to make sure the e-mail you just opened isn't made up. Snopes is really great for those "too good to be true" type e-mails and stories that are partially true, because they point out what is made up but also what is true, often giving you links to the original news articles.
I was planning on doing some degree of education. We'll see where this goes.

Z-Magic
Feb 19, 2011

They talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs - it's the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.

zeroprime posted:

I just realized, you just ruined a perfectly good opportunity to start spreading the most crazy and bogus forwards through her. You could have just kept pushing the envelope further and further into crazy-town to see what she would forward. Heck, maybe one or two would have made their way back to you eventually.

Send her something like this instead:
A lot of e-mails like this are usually bogus and if you're worried about anyone e-mailing back to tell you it's wrong, you can do a quick check at a site like snopes.com to make sure the e-mail you just opened isn't made up. Snopes is really great for those "too good to be true" type e-mails and stories that are partially true, because they point out what is made up but also what is true, often giving you links to the original news articles.

:byodood: Snopes is funded by uber-Leftist Marxist Billionaires like George Soros!

Emy
Apr 21, 2009

Nth Doctor posted:

Defensive reply ahoy!

Actually, I think this is the wrong lesson to learn. Rather than simply not forwarding things, the right thing to learn would be not to believe dumb email forwards. Then, as a consequence of that, she shouldn't forward them.

Reposting something that's wrong and getting corrected is way more embarrassing than just receiving the forward and quietly believing it. But at the same time, the former is also way more productive.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

I guess this has been floating around the internet for a while, but I just saw it today on Facebook:

quote:

It's interesting how history often parallels the present. Sometimes in good ways, sometimes not. Our future history has yet to be decided...

"We ask that government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within the confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: ... an end to the power of financial interest. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand ... the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our system of public education.... We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents.... The government must undertake the improvement of public health -- by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor -- by the greatest possible support for all groups concerned with the physical education of youth. [W]e combat the ... materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of The Common Good Before the Individual Good."

- National Socialist Party of Germany (Nazi)

Actual 25 Points:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/1708-ps.asp

auf Deutsch:
http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/dokumente/nsdap25/index.html

VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.

Z-Magic posted:

:byodood: Snopes is funded by uber-Leftist Marxist Billionaires like George Soros!

Everything that contradicts my world view is a trick by Satan funded by Soros.

MadcapLaughs
Mar 17, 2007

I posted that chart about Years The U.S.A. Has Been At War Since 1776 on my Facebook with a comment saying "This is why we can't have nice things like UHC." I woke up this morning to this comment and I have no idea how to refute it.

Facebook friend posted: "If you shut down all of the federal Government and Stopped paying for all congress, soldiers, buildings, wars, IRS, courts, prisons, forest service, national parks, dept of agriculture, FDA, every little agency and department it still doesn't add up to the cost of entitlement programs we have in the US. Welfare, medicare, medicade are unsustainable as long as they dont teach people to wean themselves off of the big Gov tit. Entitlement programs have been around long enough to see that poverty and wellness have not improved from government influence. In fact they have been shown to make things worse by subsidizing poor life decisions and putting others on the hook for them. It is unsustainable. We are resistance trained beings. That means that strength comes from effort not programs and pills. They are buying votes and killing freedom. Don't think I'm any more pleased with republicans. Its a dog and pony show on both sides."

ultimateforce
Apr 25, 2008

SKINNY JEANS CANT HOLD BACK THIS ARC
Sorry Grandma, welcome to the Thunder Dome.

particle409
Jan 15, 2008

Thou bootless clapper-clawed varlot!

Mo_Steel posted:

The article you're thinking of is probably this one which compares intergenerational occupation, income and wealth changes in the United States and those rates against a few international comparisons near the end.

If your friend thinks hard work is the primary correlating indicator of economic success would he care to explain why there are only 4 black billionaires among the 1,210 billionaires in existence, a significantly smaller proportion by race than the general population of black people (0.3% vs. 8% worldwide)?

Clearly the welfare state has crippled young black entrepreneurs. If only we eliminated food stamps, then they would surely thrive.

Z-Magic
Feb 19, 2011

They talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs - it's the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.

MadcapLaughs posted:

I posted that chart about Years The U.S.A. Has Been At War Since 1776 on my Facebook with a comment saying "This is why we can't have nice things like UHC." I woke up this morning to this comment and I have no idea how to refute it.

You don't have to refute anything until he actually comes up with some sources.

Walter
Jul 3, 2003

We think they're great. In a grand, mystical, neopolitical sense, these guys have a real message in their music. They don't, however, have neat names like me and Bono.

VideoTapir posted:

Everything that contradicts my world view is a trick by Satan funded by Soros.

quote:

A LIBERAL COVER-UP THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT!!!!

The writer of this piece is only 8 years old, but he already knows more about the world than a lot of people. He's going to be one to watch!

Whatever political office he runs for in 30 years, I'll vote for him. Unless he becomes a filthy liberal.

For now though, read this and pass it along if you agree. If not just delete it and watch the world burn.

[begin comic sans]

George Soros is a billionaire who thinks you should pay more taxes, funds abortion clinics from his own pocket, and hates our troops. Soros's liberal agenda is dangerous, but maybe it's even more dangerous than we think.

The New American Bible tells us that Satan is clothed in liberal lies, and will come to us dressed as a man whose first name begins with G. But, Satan is too proud to give up his name completely, and any of his illusions will still bear his mark.

Soros and Satan both begin with "S."

If you assign numbers to the letters of the alphabet (A = 1, B = 2), and add the numbers for each letter in Soros's name, it adds up to 86. If you add 580 to that, you get 666.

Now, if you do the same with Satan's name, you get 55. 55 + 611 is 666.

580 and 611 are both three digit numbers in the base 10 numbering system.

Coincidence?

There's no other conclusion. George Soros is Satan.

92.743% of people who read this will pass it on, but only 1.77643% of the mainstream media will report this. Join us! Pass this on and let's expose George Soros as Satan for the world to see!

modig
Aug 20, 2002

quote:

580 and 611 are both three digit numbers in the base 10 numbering system.
What a coincidence!!!!

Retarted Pimple
Jun 2, 2002

Maybe a schizophrenic 68 year old.

Nibbles!
Jun 26, 2008

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please

MadcapLaughs posted:

I posted that chart about Years The U.S.A. Has Been At War Since 1776 on my Facebook with a comment saying "This is why we can't have nice things like UHC." I woke up this morning to this comment and I have no idea how to refute it.

Facebook friend posted: "If you shut down all of the federal Government and Stopped paying for all congress, soldiers, buildings, wars, IRS, courts, prisons, forest service, national parks, dept of agriculture, FDA, every little agency and department it still doesn't add up to the cost of entitlement programs we have in the US. Welfare, medicare, medicade are unsustainable as long as they dont teach people to wean themselves off of the big Gov tit. Entitlement programs have been around long enough to see that poverty and wellness have not improved from government influence. In fact they have been shown to make things worse by subsidizing poor life decisions and putting others on the hook for them. It is unsustainable. We are resistance trained beings. That means that strength comes from effort not programs and pills. They are buying votes and killing freedom. Don't think I'm any more pleased with republicans. Its a dog and pony show on both sides."

Right from the start they are wrong mentioning soldiers as US defence spending accounts for over half the budget.

Send them here to hopefully make them understand that socio-economic goes beyond "poor decisions".

Ask them why they aren't a millionaire/billionaire, since it's simply down to effort?

Mr Ice Cream Glove
Apr 22, 2007

American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer has decided to write the 10 commandments of the Liberal/Muslim/Sharia/Democrat/Obama

quote:

These new commandments must be obeyed, and those who flout them will receive the most severe and unyielding punishments, including censure, excommunication, (say, from graduate counseling programs), and fines in the forms of legal fees to the secular imams at the ACLU.

Here, then, are the Ten Commandments of secular Sharia:

1. “Government, not Yahweh, is God.” Secular fundamentalists want us to look to government for everything we we [sic] were once taught to look for from God. Government is all knowing, all powerful, all wise, all caring. You know, all the things God used to be.

2. “You shall have no gods, period.” The goal of secular fundamentalists is the extermination of any and all mentions of God and Christ in the public arena. The only exceptions to the “no god” rule will be for Gaia and Allah. Gaia is to be worshiped, and any blasphemy against her, by plundering her for such things as the fuel on which the world runs, will be met with the severest punishment and condemnation.

3. “You shall not take the name of the homosexual agenda or Islam in vain.” If you do, we will land on you like a falling safe. Profanity, blasphemy, vulgarity, obscenity, pornography, all are fine. Criticize homosexual conduct, on the other hand, and we will cause the wrath of our god to descend upon you as a consuming fire. You will be silenced, marginalized and treated as a leper. We secularists have freedom of speech but you cretinous conservatives do not. If you have a problem with sexually deviant behavior, you are by definition a homophobic hatemonger and we don’t have to listen to you.

4. “Observe Halloween, Labor Day and Martin Luther King, Jr. Day as holy days. Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving, on the other hand, must be wiped off school calendars as if they never existed.”

5. “Honor your father and mother - by which we mean liberal politicians, since they have turned government into your mommy and your daddy.” No husband, no problem: government will be the head of your home. No father, no problem: government will be your provider and raise your children for you.

6. “You shall not murder - unless it’s a defenseless baby in the womb.”

7. “You shall not commit adultery - unless it’s with another man’s wife. Fornication and sodomy without repercussions and penalty are okay too. And we’re working on polygamy and pedophilia.” Anyone who disagrees, and says anything remotely critical of such behaviors, will be subject to the wrath of the holy and righteous prophets of secular Sharia in the out-of-the-mainstream media, who will call down fire and brimstone on those who dare to challenge the sexual orthodoxy of leftist libertines.

8. “You shall not steal - unless it’s to plunder from the producers what they have earned to give to the non-producers what they have not earned.” Anyone who complains about this involuntary transfer of wealth will be judged by the secular mullahs as evil, greedy capitalists and silenced. Right after they have been ripped off.

9. “You shall not bear false witness - unless it is to tell blatant lies about the Constitution, American history, the economy, unemployment figures and drilling for oil.” As long as you are lying to advance the power and reach of government, or get a leftist politician reelected, it’s okay. Secularists have their own version of taqqiya, just like the Muslims do.

10. “You shall not covet anything - as long as it belongs to people who are poorer than you. If they have more money than you, they are evil oppressors who must be plundered of their ill-gotten wealth by our government overlords so it can be redistributed to the lazy, shiftless and irresponsible.”

Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Apr 1, 2012

zeroprime
Mar 25, 2006

Words go here.

Fun Shoe

MadcapLaughs posted:

I posted that chart about Years The U.S.A. Has Been At War Since 1776 on my Facebook with a comment saying "This is why we can't have nice things like UHC." I woke up this morning to this comment and I have no idea how to refute it.

Facebook friend posted: "If you shut down all of the federal Government and Stopped paying for all congress, soldiers, buildings, wars, IRS, courts, prisons, forest service, national parks, dept of agriculture, FDA, every little agency and department it still doesn't add up to the cost of entitlement programs we have in the US. Welfare, medicare, medicade are unsustainable as long as they dont teach people to wean themselves off of the big Gov tit. Entitlement programs have been around long enough to see that poverty and wellness have not improved from government influence. In fact they have been shown to make things worse by subsidizing poor life decisions and putting others on the hook for them. It is unsustainable. We are resistance trained beings. That means that strength comes from effort not programs and pills. They are buying votes and killing freedom. Don't think I'm any more pleased with republicans. Its a dog and pony show on both sides."

Security and administrative costs for 2012 are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 tillion dollars and the projected budget deficit is about 1.1 trillion dollars. Tell him to source his claim and explain if he's talking about discretionary spending, mandatory spending, or the sum total of both. Also point out that it's good to run deficit spending during a recession, money is paid into things like unemployment insurance and welfare when we're doing well so that there is something to support us if the bottom falls out (and the bottom really fell out just before the last presidential election). If they try to use the tortured home budget metaphor, point out that when there is a sudden emergency sometimes you have to go into debt to cover the emergency expenses, but once you're better you can pay off those emergency costs.

modig
Aug 20, 2002

Wow in addition to being stupid, these are also poorly written.

"You shall have no gods period. Except 2." I think you could have structured that one better.

Z-Magic
Feb 19, 2011

They talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs - it's the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.

modig posted:

Wow in addition to being stupid, these are also poorly written.

"You shall have no gods period. Except 2." I think you could have structured that one better.

We're not allowed to worship the Christian God any more, only the Moon god Allah.



Yes, Moon god.

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005


Hahaha he is angry at Obama for being Too Atheist and Too Muslim at the same time, I don't get it

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Hahaha he is angry at Obama for being Too Atheist and Too Muslim at the same time, I don't get it

Read: not Christian enough.

Read: black.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

MadcapLaughs posted:

Entitlement programs have been around long enough to see that poverty and wellness have not improved from government influence. In fact they have been shown to make things worse by subsidizing poor life decisions and putting others on the hook for them.

I mean is is so laughably false and dumb I don't even know where to start. You should ask the to verify this with any facts. Also the idea that people are poor because of "life decisions" is ridiculously evil.

myron cope
Apr 21, 2009

quote:

Observe Halloween, Labor Day and Martin Luther King, Jr. Day as holy days. Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving, on the other hand, must be wiped off school calendars as if they never existed.”
What's wrong with Labor Day or MLK Day?

Oh, unions and black people. My bad. And who the hell wipes off Christmas/Easter/Thanksgiving from the calendar? They may be called "winter" or "spring" break but they still coincide with your Christian holidays :argh:

MadcapLaughs
Mar 17, 2007

euphronius posted:

I mean is is so laughably false and dumb I don't even know where to start. You should ask the to verify this with any facts. Also the idea that people are poor because of "life decisions" is ridiculously evil.

That's the first thing I called him out on. Thanks for the help guys. We'll see if he responds to any of it.

Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Hahaha he is angry at Obama for being Too Atheist and Too Muslim at the same time, I don't get it

He is a practitioner of AtheIslam, or a secular huMuslim.

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire

myron cope posted:

What's wrong with Labor Day or MLK Day?

Oh, unions and black people. My bad. And who the hell wipes off Christmas/Easter/Thanksgiving from the calendar? They may be called "winter" or "spring" break but they still coincide with your Christian holidays :argh:

I assumed the argument was that religious holidays don't get mentioned in schools (Because it's exclusionary) and "Secular" holidays are.

But when did Thanksgiving turn into a religious holiday? I know it has religious practices but it's an American holiday it didn't come from the Vatican or something. I still see thanksgiving on school calendars.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
So I am having a conversation on Facebook with a relative. He keeps saying I am demonizing success because I want capital gains taxes, income tax, and Tariffs increased.

I tried to explain to him that no, I don't have success and instead want a better economy, and since the top companies in the USA are hording vast amounts of wealth and profit while employment is still pretty terrible, that if we taxed these companies, and invested the money wisely (key word.) that more people with more money and better access to food and medicine = more money for more companies and less crime/poverty.

His response was "those people earned their success and we have no say on what they do with their money."

I don't think I can reason him out of this position because he didn't reason himself into it. Am I right about this?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply