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Kuros posted:Well, when you have the best tits in the game, it's hard to be impressed by other tits. I'd call DQ8 out for sexism, being that they sort of shoveled all that onto the one girl character. But, I guess it's at least somewhat mitigated by the way that the series doesn't make a giant habit of it (leading one to believe it's supposed to be a specific Jessica thing, rather than a general token female thing), at least not that I'm aware of, and that it's difficult not to be at least somewhat amused by how cartoonishly silly a direction it takes. As with many elements of that game, really. I've kind of been making on-and-off progress on DQ8 since it came out. The pace can just drag sometimes, but the way that the narrative is episodically divided up and not entirely hinged on the overarching plotline makes it a bit easier to take in small bites.
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Mar 30, 2012 08:34
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Marogareh posted:Finally got to play VIII after binging the DS ones and i wish every RPG had the intimidate command. Who owns rights to DQVIII? An HD remake would go down a treat right now given the current gen JRPG roster is either creepy or a tad mediocre. On the PS2 we had five great Shin Megami Tensei games, two amazing and one divisive but good Final Fantasy games, Dragon Quest 8, a butload of NIS strategy RPGs, The Shadow Hearts trilogy, Many many Atelier games (I only played Atelier Iris 2 but I liked it a lot), and a load more. PS3 right now has 'mom's are tough', and a few gems like Nier and Resonance of Fate but they've dropped the ball a bit on a true world spanning epic like the old PSX final fantasies and Dragon Quest games. Granted, the system hasn't finished it's life cycle yet but it seems like JRPG's are dying out Polite Tim fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Mar 30, 2012 |
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Mar 30, 2012 10:34
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I've been trying to get into DQ8 lately. It's not going so well. There seems to be a real lag in the battle animations, and it makes everything seem so slow, especially compared to the earlier games. Speedy combat spoiled me.  I love how DQ8 seemed to revive the series in the west, but it seems so unpolished in comparison to the other games (DQ7 excluded). I dunno.
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Mar 30, 2012 10:45
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Polite Tim posted:Who owns rights to DQVIII? An HD remake would go down a treat right now given the current gen JRPG roster is either creepy or a tad mediocre. On the PS2 we had five great Shin Megami Tensei games, two amazing and one divisive but good Final Fantasy games, Dragon Quest 8, a butload of NIS strategy RPGs, The Shadow Hearts trilogy, Many many Atelier games (I only played Atelier Iris 2 but I liked it a lot), and a load more. Buy a DS and psp.
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Mar 30, 2012 11:02
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If they polished it a bit, DQ8 would be a great thing to rerelease for 3DS/Vita. In the meantime, there are a few weird little gems up on the handhelds, as Himuro implied. Radiant Historia and The World Ends with You being pretty decent, and also on the DS you've got the rereleases for the likes of DQ, Final Fantasy, and Lunar that're worth a go.
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Mar 30, 2012 13:12
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I'm sorry to bring out the  lists but anyone who complains about lack of jrpgs this gen needs to expand their horizons and badly.- The World Ends With You - Radiant Historia (haven't played yet but here great things) - SMT: Strange Journey - SMT: Devil Survivor 1 and 2 - Dragon Quest IX - Ys 7 - FF remakes - DQ remakes - Ys remakes - Persona remakes - Knights in the Nightmare - Valkyria Chronicles II - Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep - Parasite Eve: The Third Birthday - Tactics Ogre: LUCT - Cladun - Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky - Monster Hunter - Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time - Bowser's Inside Story - Final Fantasy Tactics A2 - Shiren the Wanderer - Etrian Odyssey - Jeanne D'Arc - Wild Arms XF - Poke'mon Heart Gold/Soul Silver or Black/White If you want jrpgs you buy a ds/psp. It's that simple.
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Mar 31, 2012 15:27
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So Google has brought out their nostalgia for Dragon Quest and added a wonderful wonderful new feature to Google Maps.
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Mar 31, 2012 17:30
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FreezingInferno posted:So Google has brought out their nostalgia for Dragon Quest and added a wonderful wonderful new feature to Google Maps. The Best! 
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Mar 31, 2012 18:00
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Himuro posted:I'm sorry to bring out the There have been a lot of jrpgs on PSP and DS this generation, but most of the games you listed (and a lot of the ones you didn't) ranged from mediocre to lovely. There has definitely been a lack of really good jrpgs since the PS2.
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Mar 31, 2012 18:09
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Adam Bowen posted:There have been a lot of jrpgs on PSP and DS this generation, but most of the games you listed (and a lot of the ones you didn't) ranged from mediocre to lovely. There has definitely been a lack of really good jrpgs since the PS2. Which one are mediocre/lovely? If most of those games are mediocre or lovely to you, I would love to see what you think is a good game. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 18:25
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I haven't played Ys 7, Knights in the Nightmare, or Legend of Heroes. Of the rest of that list, the SMT games, DQ games, Tactics Ogre, FFT A2, and Etrian Odyssey were all good. Jeanne D'Arc was too much baby's first SPRG for my tastes, but it was still a good game. The rest were mediocre at best. The PSP is definitely the king of jRPGs this generation but most of them were ports or remakes.
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Mar 31, 2012 18:36
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Adam Bowen posted:I haven't played Ys 7, Knights in the Nightmare, or Legend of Heroes. Of the rest of that list, the SMT games, DQ games, Tactics Ogre, FFT A2, and Etrian Odyssey were all good. Jeanne D'Arc was too much baby's first SPRG for my tastes, but it was still a good game. The rest were mediocre at best. The PSP is definitely the king of jRPGs this generation but most of them were ports or remakes. Kingdom Hearts: BBS, by my estimation, is the best Kingdom Hearts and one of the best rpgs available on the psp, I prefer Wild Arms XF to Jeanne, Cladun is a very experimental and interesting rpg, the same is true for the Mario rpgs, Shiren the Wanderer is THE de facto rogue like and calling it mediocre is just shocking, and say what you want about Poke'mon but it's popular and lauded enough to be listed. Monster Hunter - while not being for everyone - is popular and influential enough to be suggested as well. Parasite Eve: Third Birthday is the most controversial game on my list and enough people like it that I could suggest it to someone else. Nothing about this list is mediocre or lovely. The thing about ps2 is that ps2 didn't even become an rpg powerhouse until late in its cycle in the years 2005 to 2007. The idea that ps2 was always a mega rpg powerhouse confuses me, because for the most part, between 2001 to 2004, ps2 was pretty barren for quality jrpgs. Maybe a few good titles a year. DS and PSP, while not having the highs of the ps2, was certainly far more consistent. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 18:53
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Yeah the DS and PSP have been golden for JRPGs, I probably have more RPGs for those two systems combined than I do for the PS2 at least. I'd add Fate/Extra to that list too, even though it's pretty esoteric I think it's at least better than Third Birthday. E: Chrono Trigger DS too, if we're counting remakes. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 19:10
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Himuro posted:Which one are mediocre/lovely? While I haven't played any of those games, I was interested in Parasite Eve 3 before it came out - the impression I got from people that played it was to stay far away. And come on, remakes don't count as RPGs this generation. Many of those games got poor reviews. Even Nintendo Power gave Shiren the Wanderer a 6 point something. IGN and Gamespot both gave Wild Arms XF lower than a 6. I wouldn't try that game if it was given to me as a gift. And Pokemon? What are we, 5?
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Mar 31, 2012 20:01
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Super Ninja Fish posted:
It's not as if Dragon Quest games are any more intellectually superior. Having worked on both franchises, I see little difference. Hell, I'd think Pokemon's infinitely deeper when one gets into the competitive aspects. Also, if critics were such great arbiters of quality or entertainment value, I would've never listened to the Sex Pistols, Clash, Damned, etc., until way after the fact and their fans started critiquing. After all, critics are just strangers with an opinion.
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Mar 31, 2012 20:28
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Super Ninja Fish posted:And Pokemon? What are we, 5? There's nothing wrong with Pokemon games in general and I definitely wouldn't care that they're aimed at kids if they were good games. I just can't really give a poo poo about Black and White since every generation of Pokemon games is basically identical to the one that came before.
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Mar 31, 2012 20:47
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Super Ninja Fish posted:While I haven't played any of those games, I was interested in Parasite Eve 3 before it came out - the impression I got from people that played it was to stay far away. Nintendo Power giving Shiren The Wanderer a 6 doesn't mean poo poo. The game is a classic. When it comes to reviews and jrpgs, you have to take reviews with a grain of salt and have a modicum of critical thinking. Remakes don't count? Up until this the ds remakes, DQ5 and 6 never saw the light of day in America, and you say they don't count? Okay. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 22:00
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The video Google released about their 8-Bit Google Maps is amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rznYifPHxDg Complete with little Dragon Quest hero sprite!
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Apr 1, 2012 00:05
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Best part was him blowing on the cartridge just like the good old days.
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Apr 1, 2012 00:24
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Adam Bowen posted:There's nothing wrong with Pokemon games in general and I definitely wouldn't care that they're aimed at kids if they were good games. I just can't really give a poo poo about Black and White since every generation of Pokemon games is basically identical to the one that came before. You're posting in a Dragon Quest thread so you should know that line of criticism is full of crap.
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Apr 1, 2012 00:26
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I knew someone would say that, but I don't agree at all. DQ is a series that has stayed true to its roots over the years, but Pokemon is a series that hasn't changed at all over the years. Every single game consists of attempting to gather the gym badges, defeat the four champions, and stop Team Noun from doing whatever. I don't mind that the battle system and the method of gathering/upgrading Pokemon never changes, because those systems are perfectly fine. Every DQ game has a distinct storyline and has made a real attempt to be bigger and better than what came before it.
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Apr 1, 2012 00:46
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Adam Bowen posted:I knew someone would say that, but I don't agree at all. DQ is a series that has stayed true to its roots over the years, but Pokemon is a series that hasn't changed at all over the years. Every single game consists of attempting to gather the gym badges, defeat the four champions, and stop Team Noun from doing whatever. I don't mind that the battle system and the method of gathering/upgrading Pokemon never changes, because those systems are perfectly fine. Every DQ game has a distinct storyline and has made a real attempt to be bigger and better than what came before it. Looks like SOMEONE hasn't played Pokemon Black/White yet.  But seriously, trying to argue that Pokemon HASN'T changed, and somehow DQ has is a pretty weak argument. On the DQVIII front, I've been playing the game off and on for a year or so now. Are there any side quests I can get locked out of if I don't do <RANDOM THING> first? Or will I be fine as long as I take time to explore and talk to everyone?
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Apr 1, 2012 00:48
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Marogareh posted:Best part was him blowing on the cartridge just like the good old days. I find it amazing how such a thing has expanded beyond borders, country, even languages. It's not like back in the day we had the internet or something to tell us about it. It just seemed like a natural thing to do: blow on it and you'll get the dust out and maybe it'll run better. Did Nintendo actually suggest people should blow on their carts? I'm amazed that even the Japanese did it. ShadeofDante posted:Looks like SOMEONE hasn't played Pokemon Black/White yet. No it isn't. DQ adds new features each new game. DQ1 has you solo-ing as a lone hero in one on one battles. DQ2 introduced multiple enemies and pc characters. In DQ3, you have a pub you go to create your party with customizable jobs. In DQ4, you have a story that takes place from multiple viewpoints until a final chapter where they all band together. DQ5 is a multi-generational story where you can get married, have children, and introduced monster hunting. These are all completely different in terms of story but also gameplay types. What he said is not a stretch in the least. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Apr 1, 2012 |
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Apr 1, 2012 00:49
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ShadeofDante posted:Looks like SOMEONE hasn't played Pokemon Black/White yet. I went to Wikipedia just now to see if there was anything particularly amazing that Black/White did. Apparently now you can fight with 3 pokemon rather than two. Not exactly a mindblowing step forward for the series. Here's a bit from the plot synopsis: quote:The protagonist of Pokémon Black and White is a teenager who sets out on a journey through Unova to become the Pokémon master. At the beginning of the games, the player chooses either Snivy, Tepig, or Oshawott as their first Pokémon as a gift from Professor Juniper. The protagonist's friends, Cheren and Bianca, are also rivals and are Pokémon Trainers who occasionally battle the player. The player's primary goal is to obtain the eight Gym Badges of Unova and ultimately challenge the Elite Four of the Pokémon League, and its Champion, to win the game. In addition to the standard gameplay, the player will also have to defeat the games' main antagonist Team Plasma, I think that kind of proves my point. If you switched out all of the proper nouns in that block of text, you could describe literally every Pokemon game ever made.
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Apr 1, 2012 00:57
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Himuro posted:No it isn't. DQ adds new features each new game.
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Apr 1, 2012 01:05
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Haven't played any since Yellow but who can hate mutant flora and fauna cock fights.
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Apr 1, 2012 01:11
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Bongo Bill posted:You say this as if Pokemon doesn't. The changes may not be as conspicuous but that doesn't mean they don't count or improve. At the end of the day, if you don't like monster-collecting adventures, don't play Pokemon, and if you don't like turn-based equipment-buying boat-unlocking quest-'em-ups, don't play Dragon Quest. Saying that one of the two most conservative RPG franchises is too conservative while being a fan of the other suggests its conservatism isn't really why you dislike it. I'm not slamming Poke'mon. I like that it still has its roots and hell, I respect that, just like how I respect DQ cherishing its roots. I'm just saying that comparing Poke'mon to DQ is silly, given that DQ is far more experimental.
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Apr 1, 2012 01:14
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The stories in the main games in basically the same, yes, but who cares? No one plays Pokémon for the story. And there are new additions and changes to the battle system in every generation. Gen II introduced the Dark and Steel types and weather effects. Gen III introduced Abilities and double battles. Gen IV did the Physical/Special split. Gen V introduced the Dream World which gave almost every old Pokémon new Abilities. I also think it's really silly to say that Pokémon hasn't changed at all while Dragon Quest has. EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying DQ hasn't changed things up either. Purple D. Link fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Apr 1, 2012 |
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Apr 1, 2012 01:37
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Doug Dinsdale posted:Also, if critics were such great arbiters of quality or entertainment value, I would've never listened to the Sex Pistols, Clash, Damned, etc., until way after the fact and their fans started critiquing. Well... Since we can't play every game, we usually have to defer to strangers with opinions. I think you'll waste a lot of time if you don't pay attention to what people say about games and choose to buy them at random. How often have you ever seen game reviewers be completely off the mark and give a masterpiece a low rating? Is there any chance that you're missing out a game like Shadow of the Colossus by sticking to playing games with 8s and 9s? Not likely. I've never seen a game that averaged 5s and 6s that I've actually enjoyed and thought was worth playing. Game reviewers typically over rate games. They almost never under rate games. A RPG that averages less than a 8 is usually pretty mediocre I've found. Not enough points get docked for being generic. A game that gives you a generic world and a generic story and bland cliche characters should never get above a 5 IMO. (Unless there's something else really uniquely special about it) But the fact that they do tells me that a game that actually does get 5s must be an absolute abomination. Must be pure evil on a DVD. some bust on that guy fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Apr 1, 2012 |
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Apr 1, 2012 01:53
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ShadeofDante posted:On the DQVIII front, I've been playing the game off and on for a year or so now. Are there any side quests I can get locked out of if I don't do <RANDOM THING> first? Or will I be fine as long as I take time to explore and talk to everyone? Exploring and talking is good enough. There might be some little things that are time-dependent (the old guy on top of the waterfall near the first town gives different loot at different times, for example), but I don't recall anything really big and important that can be overlooked. Himuro posted:Did Nintendo actually suggest people should blow on their carts? I'm amazed that even the Japanese did it. I recall Nintendo explicitly telling people not to blow on the cartridges, as saliva droplets could stick to the connections and corrode them faster. This may be a legit concern or it may have been a way to sell approved NES cleaning kits.
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Apr 1, 2012 02:19
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Well... Since we can't play every game, we usually have to defer to strangers with opinions. I think you'll waste a lot of time if you don't pay attention to what people say about games and choose to buy them at random. How often have you ever seen game reviewers be completely off the mark and give a masterpiece a low rating? Is there any chance that you're missing out a game like Shadow of the Colossus by sticking to playing games with 8s and 9s? Not likely. Your logic is extremely flawed and superficial. God Hand, one of the most celebrated action games on the ps2 averages out on metacritic with a score of 73. Right now, I'm playing Warriors Orochi 3. It has been out for almost two weeks, guess how many reviews it has on metacritic? Four. Guess what I would rate it? At least a 9.0. Reviewers tend to underrate jrpgs, beat em ups, 2d shooters, and almost any genre/game that requires the tiniest bit of skill. Well, not really, but that's just another example of game reviewers being inconsistent. The majority of Ys games on metacritic have a score below 80. According to you, that should be a red flag. But whoops, looks like you'd miss out on THE definitive action rpg jrpg series. Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, one of the most inventive and best rpgs of all time, has a metacritic score of 78. Suikoden V, one of the best jrpgs on the ps2, has a metacritic average of 76. The original Etrian Odyssey, yet another lauded jrpg (by jrpg fans, not critics, and this is important) has a metacritic score of 75. For considering yourself an rpg player, you certainly don't seem to know much about the schematics that many consider in regards to picking and choosing an rpg. Most people pick up jrpgs from word of mouth, brand/developer recognition, as well as feedback from trustworthy sources. Most rpg fans I know don't even regard reviews, because they're mostly full of poo poo. Now let's take a look at the games I listed in this post. Out of them, God Hand, Ys, Etrian Odyssey, Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, and Shiren The Wanderer are all difficult games that don't hold the players hand. Critics panned them, fans adored them. Ask yourself why that is. Shiren The Wanderer is a hardcore roguelike where you lose you have to start from the beginning of the game when you die. You think Nintendo Power, of all mags, is going to give that game a high score? Not likely! Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Apr 1, 2012 |
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Apr 1, 2012 02:21
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That's true, if you have any interest in RPGs that aren't just 40 hour long cutscenes you should definitely know better than to listen to reviews. I don't agree with Himuro about Shiren, I didn't like it because I've played a lot of PC roguelikes and felt that even the worst and simplest of them had more to offer than any of the Mystery Dungeon games. But the reviewers who gave it low scores didn't do so because of that, they did so because it wasn't Final Fantasy, there weren't enough cutscenes, it was different from what they expected and they weren't willing to give it a chance. Niche titles are consistently underrated by reviewers, while mainstream titles are consistently overrated.
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Apr 1, 2012 04:57
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Wendell posted:The video Google released about their 8-Bit Google Maps is amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rznYifPHxDg Been playing around with this and even street-view is in quasi 8-bit, too.
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Apr 1, 2012 16:33
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Well... Since we can't play every game, we usually have to defer to strangers with opinions. I think you'll waste a lot of time if you don't pay attention to what people say about games and choose to buy them at random. I'm certainly not advocating ignoring every review out there and buying every single game--I'm not made of money. What I find annoying is that there are people who take reviews to be gospel truth without verifying and claiming a game sucks because it reviewed badly. (People can say, "I read it had bad reviews," but it's annoying to see parrots, "I haven't played it, but it had bad reviews, therefore it sucks." It's the same mentality that drives book burnings.) Also, I find it odd that when that a big group of goons go "thumbs up," people would still go, "I haven't played it but it had bad reviews, therefore it sucks," and then proceed to denigrate them for being "dick-sucking morons."
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Apr 1, 2012 16:57
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Doug Dinsdale posted:I'm certainly not advocating ignoring every review out there and buying every single game--I'm not made of money. I'm not saying "These reviewers say this. They're unquestionably right". I'm saying "You say this is such a good game, yet all these other people say it's awful. Why should I listen to you instead of them when trying to decide if I should play it or not?" I simply don't think awful reviews should be discounted. Himuro posted:Your logic is extremely flawed and superficial. Because you have different opinions and have played low rated games that you liked while I haven't? I generally agree with the consensus of reviews. I did not enjoy as much most games I've played that averaged 7s or lower compared to games that averaged 9s. That doesn't mean they're always right but I believe it's a safe bet to go with highly rated games over lower rated ones. Even with Final Fantasy, FFXIII has a deservedly low metacritic rating compared to XII and X. FFXIII-2 was even worse. They're not just giving out high numbers because there's FF in the title. quote:The majority of Ys games on metacritic have a score below 80. According to you, that should be a red flag. But whoops, looks like you'd miss out on THE definitive action rpg jrpg series. I've played one Ys game, Wanderers of Ys 3 for SNES. It was pretty bad and I beat it in an afternoon. When I rented it and finished it on a Friday with the weekend ahead of me, I wished I had rented something else instead. Are the other Ys games similar? quote:Now let's take a look at the games I listed in this post. Out of them, God Hand, Ys, Etrian Odyssey, Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, and Shiren The Wanderer are all difficult games that don't hold the players hand. Critics panned them, fans adored them. Ask yourself why that is. Since I haven't played them, I have no idea why that is or who is right. I can't say if they're mediocre or not. "Tales Of" games have a ton of fans yet I think the reviewers are right on the money when they call all of the games in the series average. Every game seems to have a large group of people that like it. Reviewers have steered me more right than RPG fans have. I find that rpg fans are too accepting of games that don't push the bar enough to give you completely new experiences. Etrian Odyssey is described as a story-light grind-heavy dungeon crawler. Doesn't sound very appealing. A quick look at the wikipedia for breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter shows that it can be beaten in 10 hours. If it's accurate, that's one major issue right there that should keep it from getting too high a score. quote:Shiren The Wanderer is a hardcore roguelike where you lose you have to start from the beginning of the game when you die. You think Nintendo Power, of all mags, is going to give that game a high score? Not likely! Sounds like a gigantic flaw that may justify a low rating to me. I don't want to have to start from the beginning of a game when I die.
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Apr 2, 2012 00:31
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Picking good games based on critical opinion is a matter of understanding your tastes and getting a sense for how they align with or differ from those of the reviewer.
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Apr 2, 2012 00:43
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Sounds like a gigantic flaw that may justify a low rating to me. I don't want to have to start from the beginning of a game when I die. It's not a flaw when the game is designed with that in mind. It's one of those things where if you were reviewing a game like that, you'd mention it and then move on. It's not like it WASN'T supposed to be that way. Some people find it appealing, others don't, but to classify a central gameplay mechanic as "a gigantic flaw" is unfair to the rest of the game.
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Apr 2, 2012 00:44
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Ys
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Apr 2, 2012 01:28
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This is really more suited for the general RPG thread, but to elaborate further Ys III is completely different in almost every aspect from the other games other than having Adol/Dogi and good music. Gameplay-wise nothing else is like it. Ironically, the best game in the franchise (in my opinion at least) is the Ys III remake.
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Apr 2, 2012 02:49
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No need for the "in my opinion", it's a pretty common one. YsF owns and anyone who hasn't played it is doing themselves a great disservice.
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Apr 2, 2012 03:08
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