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Mola Yam
Jun 18, 2004

Kali Ma Shakti de!

Sophia posted:

Not enough which is why the housing crisis happened. Also if he's looking at $130K houses, that's not even close to 50% of cash.

$21K in savings is not enough to buy a house that costs more than $80K.

Man, reading this thread as an Australian is hilarious/depressing. We still have ads over here along the lines of "move in to your first home now for as little as $5000!" That would be for a $300-$350k house, by the way, which is about the absolute cheapest you can get if you want to live remotely close (under four hours of commuting per day) to where jobs are.

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Sophia
Apr 16, 2003

The heart wants what the heart wants.
Does it feel like we are the Ghosts of Housing Markets Future? :)

squidtarts
May 26, 2005

I think women are intimidated by me because I have mean cartoon eyebrows.
I'm another one of those crazy NoVA renters trying to decide if it's worth it to buy a house. Husband and I have been in our apartment here for 4 years, rent increases about 6-8% every year so that we're paying $1550/mo. for a two bedroom now. He has a stable job where he's gotten a promotion, I'm currently unemployed but we live just fine of his income. I'm also disabled and looking for a federal government job, so we are likely to stay in this area for quite some time.

Even with a less than 30% downpayment, it looks like our total costs for a townhouse in the $150,000 range (with taxes, fees, etc) would be less per month than rent.

Is this still a horrible idea? I have Do Never Buy drilled in my head so much that I'm pretty apprehensive about buying a place. :ohdear:

Gingerbread House Music
Dec 1, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
Got notice on friday that BoA will "let me know one way or another" on monday. Sounds to me like i've wasted over 7 months of my life.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi
Could someone reinforce the idea in my mind again that buying a house is stupid in my situation?

200k in med school debt (will be under IBR for the next 5 years, ie ~$400/mo)
~10k in savings, could probably get a loan from my parents for another 10k
No other debt, single

I'm moving to Madison, WI for the next 5 years to begin residency with my income starting at 52k and going up 2k/year. After that I will be earning significantly more barring major changes. I'd be looking at condos for around 150k. The current plan is to split an apartment with a roommate for at least the first year ($850/mo with parking). I know that I should get the idea out of my head but a few friends are buying homes in cases where they'll be somewhere for less time (3-4 years). Some are looking at so-called "physician loans" with nothing down, 5/7 year ARMs, no PMI, and other creative things.

Now if I were to do it I'd look at something more traditional like a 30-year fixed (at least for the first 5 years), but could you guys remind me why it would still be a terrible idea to buy even if I were to sell it after leaving in 5 years? Or if I could pay it off relatively easily afterwards?

edit: Renting an apt in the building would be about $1100/mo, although I'm living with a roommate for at least this year at 1/2 that price.

Residency Evil fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Apr 2, 2012

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

Residency Evil posted:

Could someone reinforce the idea in my mind again that buying a house is stupid in my situation?

200k in med school debt (will be under IBR for the next 5 years, ie ~$400/mo)
~10k in savings, could probably get a loan from my parents for another 10k
No other debt, single

I'm moving to Madison, WI for the next 5 years to begin residency with my income starting at 52k and going up 2k/year. After that I will be earning significantly more barring major changes. I'd be looking at condos for around 150k. The current plan is to split an apartment with a roommate for at least the first year ($850/mo with parking). I know that I should get the idea out of my head but a few friends are buying homes in cases where they'll be somewhere for less time (3-4 years). Some are looking at so-called "physician loans" with nothing down, 5/7 year ARMs, no PMI, and other creative things.

Now if I were to do it I'd look at something more traditional like a 30-year fixed (at least for the first 5 years), but could you guys remind me why it would still be a terrible idea to buy even if I were to sell it after leaving in 5 years? Or if I could pay it off relatively easily afterwards?

edit: Renting an apt in the building would be about $1100/mo, although I'm living with a roommate for at least this year at 1/2 that price.

So, you have $200k in debt currently, and you want to take on more for a place you'd be leaving in 5 years?

Really dumb idea. Rent a nice place, split rent with a roommate, and leave all the maintenance/worrying/selling/etc fears behind.

Seriously, it is a terrible idea.

Dead Pressed
Nov 11, 2009

Residency Evil posted:

Could someone reinforce the idea in my mind again that buying a house is stupid in my situation?

200k in med school debt (will be under IBR for the next 5 years, ie ~$400/mo)
~10k in savings, could probably get a loan from my parents for another 10k
No other debt, single

I'm moving to Madison, WI for the next 5 years to begin residency with my income starting at 52k and going up 2k/year. After that I will be earning significantly more barring major changes. I'd be looking at condos for around 150k. The current plan is to split an apartment with a roommate for at least the first year ($850/mo with parking). I know that I should get the idea out of my head but a few friends are buying homes in cases where they'll be somewhere for less time (3-4 years). Some are looking at so-called "physician loans" with nothing down, 5/7 year ARMs, no PMI, and other creative things.

Now if I were to do it I'd look at something more traditional like a 30-year fixed (at least for the first 5 years), but could you guys remind me why it would still be a terrible idea to buy even if I were to sell it after leaving in 5 years? Or if I could pay it off relatively easily afterwards?

edit: Renting an apt in the building would be about $1100/mo, although I'm living with a roommate for at least this year at 1/2 that price.

1-You need to have a minimum of 6 months of expenses saved up. Not only do you not have that, you'd be completely erasing any savings you DO have.
2-Family loans are AWFUL ideas. Don't even entertain the thought of taking money from your parents.
3-Closing costs. Okay, let's say you have a down payment of absolutely minimum of 3.5% needed on an FHA loan. Now you've got to pay closing costs. Have fun with the 4-5 grand it'll take to get you to the closing table. Then you're going to cough up the 3.5% on top of that.
4-Let's say you buy, don't get underwater, and decide to leave in 5 years. Then you have to pay to sell the house. That's 6% (standard) in commission to the buyer's and seller's agent. It takes more than 5 years to gain enough equity to pay that off, not taking into account #3.
5-Don't forget insurance and property taxes.
6-Don't forget having to fix literally everything that goes wrong. Hope you're handy.
7-Don't buy a house because your moron friends are doing it. Putting NOTHING down is incredibly stupid. As are ARMs. Realistically considering these is idiotic, and the fact any of them went through with these deals indicates they don't know what the hell they were doing. Getting an ARM in today's market is absolutely insane even IF they don't PLAN on being somewhere long enough to hit the adjustments.
8-Hope you like your neighbors. Hope you like the HOA and they don't have a ton of hidden fees, charges, and litigation.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi
Thanks guys, I forgot about the closing costs associated with selling a place on leaving and the knock it has on equity.

To play devil's advocate, if I planned on keeping the place as a rental property for the future would that change things? Still a stupid idea?

CanadianSuperKing
Dec 29, 2008

Residency Evil posted:

Could someone reinforce the idea in my mind again that buying a house is stupid in my situation?

200k in med school debt (will be under IBR for the next 5 years, ie ~$400/mo)
~10k in savings, could probably get a loan from my parents for another 10k
No other debt, single

I'm moving to Madison, WI for the next 5 years to begin residency with my income starting at 52k and going up 2k/year. After that I will be earning significantly more barring major changes. I'd be looking at condos for around 150k. The current plan is to split an apartment with a roommate for at least the first year ($850/mo with parking). I know that I should get the idea out of my head but a few friends are buying homes in cases where they'll be somewhere for less time (3-4 years). Some are looking at so-called "physician loans" with nothing down, 5/7 year ARMs, no PMI, and other creative things.

Now if I were to do it I'd look at something more traditional like a 30-year fixed (at least for the first 5 years), but could you guys remind me why it would still be a terrible idea to buy even if I were to sell it after leaving in 5 years? Or if I could pay it off relatively easily afterwards?

edit: Renting an apt in the building would be about $1100/mo, although I'm living with a roommate for at least this year at 1/2 that price.

As another medical student looking to buy a condo for residency, I don't think the question is really whether or not you could afford it. Despite your massive loans, yeah you can afford that kind of mortgage payment for five years, and even if you didn't really make the dent you want to in your student loans, you'd be able to make up for it surely afterwards (especially since I think you're going into rads?). It's just not necessarily the most financially savvy move to make if you're going to sell and move in five years. With all the costs of selling and everything you might break even or come out a little ahead, or you might be out some cash, or stuck with a place you can't get rid of. It's a bit of a liability to have in a period of your life where you might not really need it.

I'm in the military and I'm looking at buying a place for residency too. I've got a 20% downpayment saved up, and the military covers all my costs of selling the place if they post me somewhere else when I finish residency, and even then I get nervous about being stuck with the place and not being able to sell it right away.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost

squidtarts posted:

I'm another one of those crazy NoVA renters trying to decide if it's worth it to buy a house. Husband and I have been in our apartment here for 4 years, rent increases about 6-8% every year so that we're paying $1550/mo. for a two bedroom now. He has a stable job where he's gotten a promotion, I'm currently unemployed but we live just fine of his income. I'm also disabled and looking for a federal government job, so we are likely to stay in this area for quite some time.

Even with a less than 30% downpayment, it looks like our total costs for a townhouse in the $150,000 range (with taxes, fees, etc) would be less per month than rent.

Is this still a horrible idea? I have Do Never Buy drilled in my head so much that I'm pretty apprehensive about buying a place. :ohdear:
Where the heck in NoVA that's worth buying could you get a townhouse over 1000 sqft for $150k? Gainesville or somewhere else you'd have a commute anywhere near the beltway that could induce one to commit harakiri in your car in the morning?

The DC area is notable as one of the few parts of the US where it's somewhat reasonable to buy a house (mostly because of government spending barely having a downward effect on job prospects here unlike 99.95% of the rest of the country) but do be careful outside the beltway because that's where almost all the price declines have been in the past few years.

Wife and I will be pulling a considerable amount above median income even for Fairfax county and we're still nowhere near ready to commit to the area mostly because her job prospects are oddly enough nowhere near as good as yours (she's white and not disabled or a veteran, etc.).

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

CanadianSuperKing posted:

As another medical student looking to buy a condo for residency, I don't think the question is really whether or not you could afford it. Despite your massive loans, yeah you can afford that kind of mortgage payment for five years, and even if you didn't really make the dent you want to in your student loans, you'd be able to make up for it surely afterwards (especially since I think you're going into rads?). It's just not necessarily the most financially savvy move to make if you're going to sell and move in five years. With all the costs of selling and everything you might break even or come out a little ahead, or you might be out some cash, or stuck with a place you can't get rid of. It's a bit of a liability to have in a period of your life where you might not really need it.

I'm in the military and I'm looking at buying a place for residency too. I've got a 20% downpayment saved up, and the military covers all my costs of selling the place if they post me somewhere else when I finish residency, and even then I get nervous about being stuck with the place and not being able to sell it right away.

Close, I'm going into radonc.

Whenever I run the numbers it looks like the break-even point on buy versus rent is right around 4-6 years, even if it doesn't rise in value at all. I figure if anything I'd buy it and hold on to it as a future rental property, but then I run into the issue of whether I want to be a landlord that lives 2000 miles away. Even though it's a condo and not a house I imagine issues pop up. Anyone else want to chime in here?

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

Residency Evil posted:

Close, I'm going into radonc.

Whenever I run the numbers it looks like the break-even point on buy versus rent is right around 4-6 years, even if it doesn't rise in value at all. I figure if anything I'd buy it and hold on to it as a future rental property, but then I run into the issue of whether I want to be a landlord that lives 2000 miles away. Even though it's a condo and not a house I imagine issues pop up. Anyone else want to chime in here?

Why do you want to purchase a condo for somewhere you are going to be for a short amount of time? I don't know if you have provided an answer for that.

blah_blah
Apr 15, 2006

Residency Evil posted:

Thanks guys, I forgot about the closing costs associated with selling a place on leaving and the knock it has on equity.

To play devil's advocate, if I planned on keeping the place as a rental property for the future would that change things? Still a stupid idea?

I'm not saying that you should buy (it sounds like a fairly poor decision in your case), but being a doctor is a sufficiently skilled/high-paying position that negotiating something like closing costs for selling your old place in the compensation package for your first real post-residency job is something that might be realistic.

Also the closing costs that that guy mentioned for buying are a lot less than 4-5k, at least where I am from.

squidtarts
May 26, 2005

I think women are intimidated by me because I have mean cartoon eyebrows.

necrobobsledder posted:

Where the heck in NoVA that's worth buying could you get a townhouse over 1000 sqft for $150k? Gainesville or somewhere else you'd have a commute anywhere near the beltway that could induce one to commit harakiri in your car in the morning?

The DC area is notable as one of the few parts of the US where it's somewhat reasonable to buy a house (mostly because of government spending barely having a downward effect on job prospects here unlike 99.95% of the rest of the country) but do be careful outside the beltway because that's where almost all the price declines have been in the past few years.

Wife and I will be pulling a considerable amount above median income even for Fairfax county and we're still nowhere near ready to commit to the area mostly because her job prospects are oddly enough nowhere near as good as yours (she's white and not disabled or a veteran, etc.).

We've found a few places in Sterling around that price. He works in Reston (where we currently live) and I'm looking for things outside of DC proper. Hoping to have a job figured out before we start really looking so I'll know whether I'd like to kill myself over the commute. I'd love it if we could find a place nearer to Arlington but I don't see that being in our price range.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

sheri posted:

Why do you want to purchase a condo for somewhere you are going to be for a short amount of time? I don't know if you have provided an answer for that.

The way I see it, if it goes up in value over 4/5 years I'll have the the option of selling it and making money. If it stays the same/goes down, I can always hold on to it and rent it out in the future.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



This is a bad idea. People have told you it's a bad idea. If you're going to make a terrible financial decision, just do it, but don't try to justify it when people have told you it's a bad idea. Seriously, a bad idea.

Sophia
Apr 16, 2003

The heart wants what the heart wants.

Residency Evil posted:

The way I see it, if it goes up in value over 4/5 years I'll have the the option of selling it and making money. If it stays the same/goes down, I can always hold on to it and rent it out in the future.

Renting one house to strangers (or even to people you know) is a great way to lose a bunch of money unexpectedly. Might as well go to Vegas and put it all on black if you're going to flip a coin - at least there you have a maximum amount you can lose.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

Bovril Delight posted:

This is a bad idea. People have told you it's a bad idea. If you're going to make a terrible financial decision, just do it, but don't try to justify it when people have told you it's a bad idea. Seriously, a bad idea.

People above have posted reasons that it's a bad idea over the short-term (5 years or so). If you take selling the apartment in 5 years out of the equation, is it still such a bad decision/gamble? Especially if I'll be able to pay it off afterwards?

Again, I'm also against buying and have been for a while. I've got 200k in student loans, and I was hoping to have them paid off within 2 years after finishing residency. Paying off a mortgage in that time as well might not be possible. I'm just trying to float some ideas here.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Residency Evil posted:

The way I see it, if it goes up in value over 4/5 years I'll have the the option of selling it and making money. If it stays the same/goes down, I can always hold on to it and rent it out in the future.
You would need it to go up in value at a pretty high rate (for real estate) to make any money, once you consider transaction costs.

Residency Evil posted:

People above have posted reasons that it's a bad idea over the short-term (5 years or so). If you take selling the apartment in 5 years out of the equation, is it still such a bad decision/gamble? Especially if I'll be able to pay it off afterwards?

Again, I'm also against buying and have been for a while. I've got 200k in student loans, and I was hoping to have them paid off within 2 years after finishing residency. Paying off a mortgage in that time as well might not be possible. I'm just trying to float some ideas here.
This is an even dumber idea. You are going to have to pay someone to manage, and don't forget the opportunity cost of paying off the mortgage.

You are going to buy, so just buy.

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

Residency Evil posted:


Again, I'm also against buying and have been for a while. I've got 200k in student loans, and I was hoping to have them paid off within 2 years after finishing residency. Paying off a mortgage in that time as well might not be possible. I'm just trying to float some ideas here.

And you are absolutely correct in being "against buying." Your posting in this thread seems to indicate you are looking for any (small) reason to justify buying, and there just isn't one in your case.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

gvibes posted:

You would need it to go up in value at a pretty high rate (for real estate) to make any money, once you consider transaction costs.

Transaction costs are around 5%, I think, on each side of the transaction.

So, you would need an increase of > 10% of the full price of the house to be in the black. However, that 10% invested in something else would probably be a safer bet. I personally don't expect to see prices rise for at least the next 5 years (inventory has to be exhausted, the back log of underwater/forclosed homes has be gone through, employment has to rise, wages have to rise, etc...)

Dead Pressed
Nov 11, 2009

Residency Evil posted:

The way I see it, if it goes up in value over 4/5 years I'll have the the option of selling it and making money. If it stays the same/goes down, I can always hold on to it and rent it out in the future.

IFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIFIF

No guarantee it will go up, or won't go down. No guarantee you will have renters. No guarantee renters won't absolutely gently caress the place up. I don't know how anyone could make this any more clear. DO NOT BUY IF YOU ARE NOT COMMITTED TO THE PROPERTY LONG TERM, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Seik
Apr 15, 2006

Yes, I am indeed purple.
Pillbug
They sure do build these things pretty quick. Also still worried that it looks really really small. Will be 1540 sq ft when finished.

http://i.imgur.com/l3yxh.jpg

The home cost $269k. By the time we move in, we'll have spent ~$68k on the home (inc down payment, appliances, furniture and other start up expenses) and have around $15k in savings which still feels tight. Buying a 200k home with only ~21k in savings seems unbelievably risky. I still flip flop on my ignorance of DO NEVER BUY almost daily.

Seik fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Apr 3, 2012

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

CornHolio posted:

I suddenly find myself in the market for a house. My dad thinks now is the time to buy since prices are so low, and that I'm throwing money away on rent, and so has decided to give me another $10,000 towards a down payment. Between that and about $10,000 I can comfortably pull out of my 401(k) I think I can afford about a $200,000 house.

I kind of have my eye on this house and this one.

My only real question at this point, is how necessary is it to get a realtor involved? Can I do everything myself? I don't know a lot about houses but I can certainly get a book or something and learn.
Nice one, Cornholio. You're still #1 in BFC.

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

Dik Hz posted:

Nice one, Cornholio. You're still #1 in BFC.

It was an April Fools joke

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

Bovril Delight posted:

This is a bad idea. People have told you it's a bad idea. If you're going to make a terrible financial decision, just do it, but don't try to justify it when people have told you it's a bad idea. Seriously, a bad idea.

gvibes posted:

You would need it to go up in value at a pretty high rate (for real estate) to make any money, once you consider transaction costs.

This is an even dumber idea. You are going to have to pay someone to manage, and don't forget the opportunity cost of paying off the mortgage.

You are going to buy, so just buy.

How many times do I have to repeat that I'm pretty set on not buying? :psyduck:

sheri posted:

And you are absolutely correct in being "against buying." Your posting in this thread seems to indicate you are looking for any (small) reason to justify buying, and there just isn't one in your case.

I wasn't going in to this assuming I'd buy it and sell after 5 years, but that I'd hold on to it for a while and rent it out down the road. Nevertheless, with the breakeven point being right around when I'd leave I'm not losing out by not buying. Thanks for the help!

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

Residency Evil posted:

How many times do I have to repeat that I'm pretty set on not buying? :psyduck:


I wasn't going in to this assuming I'd buy it and sell after 5 years, but that I'd hold on to it for a while and rent it out down the road. Nevertheless, with the breakeven point being right around when I'd leave I'm not losing out by not buying. Thanks for the help!

Hope you enjoy your time in Madison (Wisconsinite here!) :)

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

sheri posted:

It was an April Fools joke
Yeah, I know. I wasn't being ironic. It was a great April Fool's, and he got me at first until I checked the user name.

Dead Pressed
Nov 11, 2009
I close on a house at 3:30 cst today. Took an unexpected vacation day today to finish packing. Uunngghh... DO NEVER BUY

Pictures to follow!

Captain Windex
Apr 10, 2005
It'll clean anything.
Pillbug
It's time for another Captain Windex mortgage effort post :toot:

:siren: Home Affordable Refinance Program 2: Electric Boogaloo :siren:

Also known as HARP, this is a program that has now been effect for several years that is designed to help homeowners with conventional loans refinance even when they are greatly underwater, meaning they owe more on their mortgage than the property is worth. The original versions for Fannie and Freddie originally allowed up to 105% LTV, and subsequently were upgraded to allow 125%. As a result of further Agency changes in December of 2011 the LTV limits were removed for the manually underwritten versions, and just few weeks ago in mid March the automatically underwritten versions were updated as well. I'll go into more detail about the difference between the two later in this post.

Given the record lows interest rates are currently at, these programs can be a big help to people who have a good pay history but just can't take advantage of the rates due to lack of equity or excessive debts. Since Fannie or Freddie already secure the existing mortgage they're not really taking on additional risk by refinancing people into a lower rate even if these people wouldn't necessarily qualify for a standard loan these days.

Those who have been lurking the thread may remember my effort post about the process of getting a mortgage to buy a home a few months back. A lot of that information is still going to be applicable on a refinance, so rather than retype it all I recommend going back and looking at the original post. Moana copy and pasted it so just look at the end of the 2nd post of the OP for a complete copy. This also has a lot of definitions/explanations for acronyms and basic concepts. If anything I say here doesn't make sense take a look at the original post and see if that addresses it, if not feel free to ask. I have no problem clarifying anything that's confusing, but I'm not going to explain what LTV means every post either :v:

Am I Eligible?

There are 2 main components to determining whether you are potentially eligible to refinance under these programs. First, you'll want to determine whether you have a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac backed loan. If your loan isn't held by either of these investors then you can pretty much stop reading here. Both companies have handy lookup tools on their websites that tell you if they have a loan securitized to your property.

Fannie Mae: http://www.fanniemae.com/loanlookup/

Freddie Mac: https://ww3.freddiemac.com/corporate/

Secondly, for both Fannie and Freddie the existing mortgage (your current loan) must have been sold to the respective investor prior to June 1st, 2009. This does NOT necessarily correspond with when your loan funded, sometimes there can be a delay of anywhere from a few weeks to a months between the time that your loan funds and when it ultimately gets sold to Fannie or Freddie. You're reasonably safe to assume you beat the cutoff if your loan was taken out before March-April of 2009 or so, but if you're after that there's a chance you may not be eligible due to the cutoff. If you do fall into that window you may be able to contact your original lender to see if they know when it was sold.

There is a 3rd component as well but it's not, strictly speaking, an agency requirement and it applies when your existing loan has mortgage insurance attached to it. Fannie and Freddie require that the existing mortgage insurance coverage be transferred from the current loan to the new (rather than taking out new mortgage insurance). This is something that can, technically, be transferred between lenders - but not a lot of them are willing to transfer from another lender. My bank will only do HARP refinances that have existing mortgage insurance if we are the servicer of the current loan, and from what I've heard from our customer base this seems to be fairly common among the major lenders. This doesn't guarantee you can't get a loan, but you may be limited to your existing loan holder as a result for companies to potentially refinance through and not all servicers are participating.

What's So Great About HARP 2.0?

Expanded eligibility for people who have been making on time payments on their mortgage. This expanded eligibility isn't purely in terms of LTV either - debt ratio requirements are relaxed/non existant depending on manual vs automated underwrite, more leniency for derogatory information in your credit profile, no minimum credit scores and a decent chance you won't need an appraisal are some of the main highlights

Sounds Awesome, How's It Work

The Fannie and Freddie variants are fairly similar to one another, I'll highlight a few of the major differences but most of it is stuff that is more specific than I really need to get into for the purposes of this post. The main difference is between the manually underwritten versions of HARP and the version that is run through the Automated Underwriting Systems (AUS)

Manual Underwriting - aka the Fannie Mae Refi Plus or Freddie Mac Relief Refinance:
This is an option that you are only eligible for if 1) your existing lender is participating in the program and 2) you go through your existing lender for the refinance. The main highlights of the manually underwritten version are that there is no maximum debt to income ratio, you generally do not need to document your income streams, assets generally do not need to be verified, and you may not even need to have an appraisal completed on the property depending on what information is available for the agencies Automated Valuation Model (AVM) systems. These are programs that look at public records of properties that have sold near your home, if it has enough information to take a guess as to what your property is approximately valued at it will spit out an estimate of :10bux: and you can use that value in lieu of an appraisal. Since your LTV is unlimited it doesn't matter a whole lot if this figure comes in low anyway.

Given the above, you may be saying to yourself "stated income and assets? That sounds a lot like the bullshit that lead up to this crisis in the first place." You would be right. However, the basic justification for being able to offer these products is that in order to qualify you have to have made your last 12 months of payments on time and in full. Presumably your payment is being reduced as a result of your refinance, so all it's doing is improving your position and decreasing the likelihood of default in the future. If your payment is going up by >20% (refinancing from a 30yr to 20yr for example), then there are minimum credit score requirements, maximum debt ratios, and you will then be required to document and verify your income and assets.

Additionally, since you are sticking with the original lender under this version of the products - in exchange for the relaxed/non existent requirements for this refinance the lender is basically required to represent and warrant that the original loan was underwritten correctly and sufficiently. If it is determined in the future that your very original loan did not meet agency standards, contained insufficient documentation, etc then Fannie and Freddie can force them to repurchase the new loan.

Automated Underwriting - aka the Fannie Mae DU Refi Plus or Freddie Mac Relief Open Access:
These versions of the program allow you to get your refinance through any participating lender, not just your current servicer. Your basic loan information will be run through the Automated Underwriting Systems and various recommendations will be spit out. Fannie's AUS system is called Desktop Underwriter (DU) and Freddie's is Loan Prospector (LP). There are different levels of approval, and depending on what level of approval you receive you may be limited in choices of lender or maximum LTV. These are not Agency limitations mind you, they would be bank overlays. Despite the expanded eligibility, banks are still going to be hesitant about putting a bunch of 200% loans on their books, particularly if the borrower does not receive the highest possible approval from AUS.

While the automated versions are not as flexible as the manually underwritten version, they still can be to your advantage even against a normal refinance. As an example, for DU under standard guidelines the normal maximum debt ratio is 45%, some borrowers with strong compensating factors (high level of reserve assets, low LTV) can be approved up to 50%. For the DU Refi Plus I've seen approvals up to 65% debt to income. Not everyone gets that flexibility offered by the AUS of course, but it does give you options in some cases where you would have been screwed under the old guidelines.

One thing to keep in mind is that while LTV and CLTV (including any subordinate financing you may have) are unlimited on these products, these are still factors that influence the risk your loan carries and consequently can impact the recommendation that is spat out by the AUS. Yes, technically 300% LTV is allowed but that's a risky as hell loan and so don't be surprised if you don't get the most favorable response from the system. As mentioned previously, if you get a bad AUS response you may have trouble finding a lender that will do the refinance even though it is technically an "approved" response.

Assuming you get an acceptable AUS response for your lender, you'll then be required to document your income, assets, title, etc. See my original post for more info and tips about the various doc types and what you'll need to provide. Get your paychecks, pension statements, 401k, bank statements, etc. together as requested by your processor and send it up for review. Hopefully everything checks out and you're able to close on a new loan with a much lower interest rate/payment.

I Think I'm Eligible

OK, great. You'll want to refer back to my original post for the basics of how to go through the loan application process. Most of the same items apply as on a purchase, other than there's obviously no purchase contract and you already own the property in question. Your LO/processor can get the ball rolling and see what you'll be eligible for and what your options are as far as lender, documentation requirements, etc.

I'll try to go into more depth about the specifics of these programs later, but this is probably a big enough wall of text for the time being. If you have any questions or want me to further explain something let me know.

Lolcano Eruption
Oct 29, 2007
Volcano of LOL.
Any advice for buying a condo instead of a house? The prospect of not having to do outdoor maintenance is attractive. I would like for the purchase to be a good investment. Is a one bedroom condo close to downtown Houston a better investment than a home in a surrounding metropolitan area?

At the time of purchase, I would pay for the condo/house outright. Also, I would say I would plan to live there for approximately five years before moving on to buying a real house. Is buying a condo a good idea or should I just rent?

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal
Condo fees usually exceed what you could pay someone to mow your lawn every week. If that is your main concern it shouldn't be. Lawn care is cheap.

Gingerbread House Music
Dec 1, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
Sent in a release of contract! :D

Lolcano Eruption
Oct 29, 2007
Volcano of LOL.

Elephanthead posted:

Condo fees usually exceed what you could pay someone to mow your lawn every week. If that is your main concern it shouldn't be. Lawn care is cheap.

I admit that I'm attracted to the urban-style living but I realize that phase will probably pass in a couple of years. I guess my main concern is investment feasibility. I worry that I would have trouble selling or renting it out later on.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Lolcano Eruption posted:

I admit that I'm attracted to the urban-style living but I realize that phase will probably pass in a couple of years. I guess my main concern is investment feasibility. I worry that I would have trouble selling or renting it out later on.

If that's the case rent for a while and see how you really feel.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Lolcano Eruption posted:

Any advice for buying a condo instead of a house? The prospect of not having to do outdoor maintenance is attractive. I would like for the purchase to be a good investment. Is a one bedroom condo close to downtown Houston a better investment than a home in a surrounding metropolitan area?

At the time of purchase, I would pay for the condo/house outright. Also, I would say I would plan to live there for approximately five years before moving on to buying a real house. Is buying a condo a good idea or should I just rent?
In my experience, condo and home values do not diverge too much over the long term. Case-Shiller does condo numbers as well - you can compare those to home values.

I Might Be Adam
Jun 12, 2007

Skip the Waves, Syncopate
Forwards Backwards

Lolcano Eruption posted:

I admit that I'm attracted to the urban-style living but I realize that phase will probably pass in a couple of years. I guess my main concern is investment feasibility. I worry that I would have trouble selling or renting it out later on.

Hey, fellow Houstonian. Seriously, rent downtown/montrose/midtown first. We're looking for townhomes in midtown and while searching, I came across some condos in downtown. High monthly maintenance fees because you're most likely paying for the amenities and parking. If you find something that is actually affordable, its going to be small, old or not a good investment. Aren't 1 BR condos really difficult to sell?

If you can afford the rent, there are a lot of cool urban living places around the downtown area. You should try it out for a year or two before buying. Then, once that year or two is up, you can be spoiled and look to the suburbs with contempt.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

My hatred of Condos is well known, and I've never heard anyone say "wow buying a condo was a the best thing I've ever done"


In certain situations condo ownership has it's advantages, but those situations are rare for most SA posters. Considering your time frame for living in it being short, I would say rent has the overall advantage even if it carries a slightly higher monthly cost.

Most people only look at the monthly costs associated in the rent vs. buy equation, they forget the acquisition and disposition costs. There's a lot of sunk costs in a real estate transaction.

Lolcano Eruption
Oct 29, 2007
Volcano of LOL.

skipdogg posted:

My hatred of Condos is well known, and I've never heard anyone say "wow buying a condo was a the best thing I've ever done"


In certain situations condo ownership has it's advantages, but those situations are rare for most SA posters. Considering your time frame for living in it being short, I would say rent has the overall advantage even if it carries a slightly higher monthly cost.

Most people only look at the monthly costs associated in the rent vs. buy equation, they forget the acquisition and disposition costs. There's a lot of sunk costs in a real estate transaction.

I currently rent in a high rise in downtown Austin with monthly cost of approximately $2.7K/mo. I figured that since I'm having a good time, I would enjoy urban living when I move back to Houston as well.

I've heard that 1BR condos are really difficult to sell which was the root of my worry.

I guess you guys are right though, I'll look into renting for another couple of years and then proceeding to buy a normal house in suburbia hell.

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DR FRASIER KRANG
Feb 4, 2005

"Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

Residency Evil posted:

Close, I'm going into radonc.

I have a friend in Eugene, OR who is in radiation oncology and he says that if his hospital ever went under or if he lost his position, he would literally have to move across the country to find another job in his field.

I imagine you're already aware of your prospects in the field but it's something to think about.

EDIT: Also, the wife and I just had our offer accepted on this house. Ended up at $405k + closing costs so it'll round out to about $415k.

We have the 20% (and then some) to put down in cash as well as an additional $60k in savings. We are ready to do this thing.

DR FRASIER KRANG fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Apr 4, 2012

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