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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:I wasn't trying to be a dick. You said I understand, I know you were being helpful. I just didnt know people actually threw a drill bit at existing oldass wiring. Any advice is helpful, I dont want to make more work for the guy.
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Mar 22, 2012 03:04
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in this case, if it were me, i'd work from the basement up because that's where your panel is and you can see where the wall is that you want to fish up. so this is how i would do it.. drill a hole up from the basement up into the wall you want to fish the wire up. on the next floor, on that same wall in the same bay, cut in a 2 or 3 gang remodel box AT THE TOP OF THE WALL. this way, you can see the floor joist for the floor above. where you cut that hole, drill up into the next floor's wall. from the basement, fish your wire up to the large hole at the top of the wall that you cut. you can either pull enough slack to reach the next floor, or junction ("leapfrog") it if you plan to install an electrical box. from there you can fish up the wall to the location of your new circuit or do the exact same thing on the next floor to get it into the attic or up another floor or wherever. after that you can install a properly sized box into the hole you cut to junction your wires, or if you chose to just do a straight run of wire, patch up the plaster and give it a coat of paint.
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Mar 22, 2012 04:17
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Spermy Smurf posted:Unfinished shithole basement, willing to do anything I need to. I honestly dont even know if I am able to fish inside the walls or not, they did before, so I assume I can. Old plaster and lathe walls. Or whatever they are. Plaster and that small wood crisscrossed. "[T]hat small wood criscrossed" is lath. You have plaster and lath walls. A lathe is a machine that spins a workpiece, and you shouldn't be covering your walls with them. I approve of crocodile's method, including just patching/painting the plaster after y our pull/inspection holes are done.
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Mar 22, 2012 04:31
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I am stumped by LED lights in my kitchen. I started converting to LED slowly over time and adding dimmers to my new house. In the kitchen I have 6 recessed can fixtures that I have added these LED lights into them. The dimmer switch in the kitchen was not rated for LED/CFL so after adding all 6, it no longer would turn on the lights. I removed 1 LED bulb and replaced it with the incandescent that was originally in the fixture and the dimmer began to work normally again. 5 LED's wasn't bad, but I wanted it done right and bought this LED dimmer switch and installed. I tested the switch with the 1 incandescent bulb in and everything functioned normally. Excited, I through the other LED in the 6th fixture and was immediately disappointed again. The switch still works, but you MUST keep the slide set to high. If you try to dim the lights, they barely dim at all and will flicker almost immediately. I put the incandescent back in and they dimmed all the way down and back up without flicker. Why can I not put the 6th LED in the circuit? There is nothing else on that line that I know of. Certainly not controlled by that switch.
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Mar 24, 2012 16:57
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Aflicted posted:I am stumped by LED lights in my kitchen. I started converting to LED slowly over time and adding dimmers to my new house. In the kitchen I have 6 recessed can fixtures that I have added these LED lights into them. The dimmer switch in the kitchen was not rated for LED/CFL so after adding all 6, it no longer would turn on the lights. I removed 1 LED bulb and replaced it with the incandescent that was originally in the fixture and the dimmer began to work normally again. 5 LED's wasn't bad, but I wanted it done right and bought this LED dimmer switch and installed. Standard electrical wire is low impedance at 60Hz, but high impedance to higher frequencies. Added a resistor like a light bulb creates an resistive-inductive circuit, which can help dampen out some of the effects. If all you have are non-linear loads, though, it's simply not going to work right. Easy answer is to remove the dimmer and install a simple on/off switch.
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Mar 24, 2012 17:17
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grover posted:Short answer: You need to get a dimmer switch rated for LEDs, and dimmable LEDs. Cheap dimmers work by chopping up the incoming voltage, essentially overlaying a high-frequency square wave over the 60Hz sinusoidal. LED and CFL bulbs use electronic switch-mode power supplies, chopping up the incoming signal and converting it to what they need. These are not compatible. I was somewhat afraid of that being the end result. The second dimmer I got said it was rated for LED/CFL bulbs specifically. That's why I bought it when the original wouldn't work. Could a resistor be added inline on the circuit to provide the same damping effect as the single incandescent? I don't know if that's legit or not. I just know a resistor is required to get rid of the pesky dash light in my car when I convert to LED there. Edit: I ask that not because I refuse to put a simple on/off switch there, I will if necessary. I would rather be able to dim them though and am willing to go the distance if it is achievable. Aflicted fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Mar 24, 2012 |
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Mar 24, 2012 17:22
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Aflicted posted:I was somewhat afraid of that being the end result. The second dimmer I got said it was rated for LED/CFL bulbs specifically. That's why I bought it when the original wouldn't work. Could a resistor be added inline on the circuit to provide the same damping effect as the single incandescent? I don't know if that's legit or not. I just know a resistor is required to get rid of the pesky dash light in my car when I convert to LED there. grover fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Mar 24, 2012 |
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Mar 24, 2012 17:24
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grover posted:You can try it, but there are a lot of nasty harmonics that play havoc with power supply filters, and it might work, yet cause your $40 LEDs to die in a few weeks/months. Dimmable bulbs have electronics that are designed to deal with this, and compensate. The bulbs I got expressly said on the packaging they were dimmable LED. I would prefer they not die prematurely since they are not loving cheap. Edit: I have an extra on/off switch that I'll throw on there for the time being. I may just wind up moving the LED lights to other fixtures around the house I don't care about dimming. Where the kitchen is though and being open to the living room, its nice to have them dimmed all the way down late at night while watching a movie or something, yet still being able to get to the fridge for some waste-line expansion action. Aflicted fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Mar 24, 2012 |
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Mar 24, 2012 17:28
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I've used a wide variety of brands and types of LED bulbs. None of them have issues with decent dimmers, even the cheaper bulbs. Virtually all LED bulbs with Edison sockets are dimable so long as you have a half decent dimmer. In my case the $39 insteon icon dimmers allow me both automated control of the lights and dim them without any complaints. 2876DB is the product number..i think its discontinued in favor of their $45 higher capacity SwitchLinc Dimmer, but you can still find them on google. Even if you do very little home automation these are decent dimmers and even without central control can be linked up to each other (virtual multi-way-switch circuits, remote control from your couch, etc) and fun stuff like that.
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Mar 24, 2012 19:24
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chedemefedeme posted:I've used a wide variety of brands and types of LED bulbs. None of them have issues with decent dimmers, even the cheaper bulbs. This is fantastic news. I was curious about how the insteon dimmers would work with an LED setup. I actually have an insteon smartlinc controller that a friend of mine gave me when he upgraded to one of the nicer units. I have not done anything with it though aside from plug it in and hook it to my router to view the phone interface. I would like to be able to program a few interior lights and have fan speed controls.
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Mar 24, 2012 21:23
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Insteon is pretty fun and very flexible. The sheer number of different kinds of modules they have is really what I enjoy. I'm almost completely LED in my home and I've tried virtually all of Insteon's dimmer devices with LEDs and never ever had an issue. If you want fan speed control they just released a new module for controlling a fan properly. It mounts up inside the fan and is totally invisible. It allows, in one module, control of fan speed and light dimming. http://www.smarthome.com/2475F/FanLinc-INSTEON-Ceiling-Fan-and-Light-Controller-Fixture-Module-Dual-Band/p.aspx And it's one of their dualband modules meaning it not only speaks to wireless and hardwired insteon controllers (really handy when you want to drop an insteon remote by your bedside for nighttime fan speed control) but also strengthens your insteon network. Dual band modules also replace the need for phase bridging modules if you have at least a few dual bands in the house. Insteon isn't the highest grade of home automation stuff, but it's far from the lowest and for the price is just dang cool. About 75% of the switches and small appliances in my house are under insteon control and combined with some smart script writing it really kindof makes my automation system. If you've got a lot of interest in insteon/automation stuff check out the unofficial home automation thread going on over in DIY. I'll answer any LED/insteon related electrical questions here, but feel free to get as specific you'd like with insteon programming or automation type stuff over there. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3462976
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Mar 25, 2012 04:30
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And few questions regarding my mother in laws house. Federal pacific stab lock are the firey inferno boxes right? How deep do I need to drill the hole to not need a nail plate? How big of a hole do I need for a 12/2? Do I need anything to protect the insulation. Or can I run the wire over/under it? Just want to make sure I do everything right even the stuff I think I know.
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Mar 26, 2012 01:32
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tater_salad posted:And few questions regarding my mother in laws house. 1. Yes, they're pretty bad. Replace if possible. 2. 1.25". 3. A half inch hole should be fine to allow for easy pulling of a single run of 12/2 cable. 4. Wiring code doesn't mention building insulation. In other words, they exist apart. Wire for electrical code first, and insulation second. 5. There's no harm in going to the library and looking up the most recent NEC book. The most recent is the 2011 NEC book. Check with your local governments, they are the ultimate authority on your electrical work, and they might even be running behind a few tri-annual releases of the NEC. And local governments usually like a permit or two regarding how much work you'll be doing, especially if you'll be replacing something as important as that Stab-Lok panel. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Mar 26, 2012 |
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Mar 26, 2012 02:08
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 This is the reason why I post, he is a 200 amp panel. Brand :Commander I wanted to add a new circuit for an electric water heater and was told that this panel is no longer made and getting a breaker for it is a nightmare. What should I do ? What panel do you suggest me? I have installed breaker in the past, can this be DYI?
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Mar 29, 2012 17:04
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Eaton bought Commander a while ago. They do still make new breakers that will fit those old panels, but they're not too common, or cheap, depending on when your panel was made. I'm pretty sure that this is the one you'd need, if I read that catalogue number on the panel correctly as BC***. As always, double check! It's way too easy to get the wrong model of breaker, and you can't just "make it work" (TM, every electrician ever) Nemico fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 29, 2012 |
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Mar 29, 2012 17:47
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Nemico posted:Eaton bought Commander a while ago. They do still make new breakers that will fit those old panels, but they're not too common, or cheap, depending on when your panel was made. I'm pretty sure that this is the one you'd need, if I read that catalogue number on the panel correctly as BC***. Niagalack, it may help to remove one of your existing breakers and take it to the store so that you can try and match it. Also, why do you have a breaker very prominently labeled "douche"?
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Mar 30, 2012 23:34
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kid sinister posted:Niagalack, it may help to remove one of your existing breakers and take it to the store so that you can try and match it. That's what a shower is in French. There's also a "laveuse" and a "eau chaude" so I'm gonna guess this is somewhere in Canada.
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Mar 30, 2012 23:41
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:That's what a shower is in French. There's also a "laveuse" and a "eau chaude" so I'm gonna guess this is somewhere in Canada. An electric shower? No thank you. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Apr 1, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 00:10
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Perhaps a point of use water heater. On that note a question that has come to my mind lately as I experience my water heater running low on hot water easier during the winter. Why don't we just have a series of point of use water heaters throughout american homes instead of the big central tanks we have now? In a home like mine, where gas service is not available, would not exclusively point of use be more efficient and have numerous benefits? I'd think you'd get: - less waste of electricity - hot water almost instantly since there would be no travel time - endless hot water - no variation in water temperature when someone across the house starts another shower - less material required to pipe your house when it is new - if one of the heaters fails you don't have a whole house without hot water The little point of use units that can support one shower or a few sinks are pretty cheap and don't need too much electricity. I've heard of this being done in some other countries. What is the reason it isn't popular here in the US? Whenever my tank unit dies I'll probably go tankless, but there's the issue/expense of hooking up really significant power at the location of a central tankless electric hot water heater. Seems if we designed things to be all point of use this wouldn't be an issue?
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Apr 1, 2012 17:20
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chedemefedeme posted:Why don't we just have a series of point of use water heaters throughout american homes instead of the big central tanks we have now? I've lived in UK and India with point-of-use water heaters since the early 1990s. They were both rubbish... * The gas-fired one in India. You hop into the shower, turn on the hot tap, the water's cold for a second until the flame activates and suddenly it's scalding hot. * The electric-fired one in the UK. It was a point-of-use shower eater installed in 2002. It gives out a terribly piddly little stream of water; nowhere near the force I want from a shower. When I read advertising here in the US about how "Europe has already adopted on-demand water heating" I have to wonder if there's a misdirection. Are they talking about the crummy pathetic on-demand water heaters that I'm used to? Or has Europe switched to effective ones more recently? Or are American on-demand water heaters an order of magnitude more powerful than anything I was used to?
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Apr 1, 2012 18:15
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My dining room pending light has developed a delay in that it takes several minutes after the switch is flipped for the lights to actually turn on. The light is a halogen bulb and is on a dimmer switch. Even if the dimmer is turned all the way up it takes a long time for the light to actually turn on. But once it comes on, it seems to function normally; full brightness, working dimmer. Does this sound like a problem with the light's transformer?
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Apr 1, 2012 19:23
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ljw1004 posted:When I read advertising here in the US about how "Europe has already adopted on-demand water heating" I have to wonder if there's a misdirection. Are they talking about the crummy pathetic on-demand water heaters that I'm used to? Or has Europe switched to effective ones more recently? Or are American on-demand water heaters an order of magnitude more powerful than anything I was used to? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. It's misdirection, they're talking about the crummy ones you're used to. Most europeans have switched to more effective ones recently, and the american ones are usually drop-in replacements for whole-house water heaters, so they're massive. I've used on-demand tanked hot water in Italy, and it was pretty sweet. I also installed a second lavatory (half bath: toilet/sink only) and used a tankless about the size of a ream of paper to run the hot in the sink. chedemefedeme is right, they massively simplify plumbing without significantly complicating electric installation. That said, I had a pair of electric tankless heaters to replace my gas 50gal and I never turned one on. I ended up selling it to a guy on a shallow well with the shower at the opposite end of his house from his hot water heater. The shallow well would run out of water right about the time the water at his shower got hot. The on-demand tankless there in his bathroom was the perfect solution for him, and he loved it. I think a properly-sized electric on-demand heater is a good choice for many people doing new construction, but they don't make a whole lot of sense for remodel work unless it's a massive remodel down to the studs. I guess it comes down to instant cost. The tankless are about $100 each, and you're going to want one each for kitchen, bathroom 1, and bathroom 2, vs $250 for a big tank. You don't save much in plumbing material or labor, either, just energy, which is a long-term cost that people are largely incapable of noticing.
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Apr 1, 2012 19:25
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kid sinister posted:Niagalack, it may help to remove one of your existing breakers and take it to the store so that you can try and match it. The douche is attributed to a special room for when my wife invite her parents.
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Apr 2, 2012 00:52
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I live in a house that was built in 1996 that has its share of shoddy poo poo, mostly in the plumbing. Recently my wife decided that she didn't like the "decorative" exterior light pole that is placed about 6ft from the house. I haven't bothered to find out how it was wired until yesterday. Come to find out, rather than run buried conduit or cable rated for burying, they grabbed some interior grade Romex style cable and buried it about 1-2 inches from the surface. I'll be pulling that poo poo up soon anyway, but I have a question: I have a garage lighting project that is waiting on me to scrape up the cash for the wire. Is there any reason why I can't use the unburied cable in the garage, after it is cleaned up and inspected for cracked/broken insulation? Money is really tight for us, and working in a garage lit by a single 100 watt incandescent sucks...
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Apr 4, 2012 17:54
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I wouldn't trust the insulation on anything that wasn't intended to be outdoors but had been outdoors for any length of time. Even if it looks fine, the lifespan has probably been significantly reduced. That's just me though.
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Apr 4, 2012 21:39
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Risket posted:I live in a house that was built in 1996 that has its share of shoddy poo poo, mostly in the plumbing. Recently my wife decided that she didn't like the "decorative" exterior light pole that is placed about 6ft from the house. I haven't bothered to find out how it was wired until yesterday. Papercut posted:I wouldn't trust the insulation on anything that wasn't intended to be outdoors but had been outdoors for any length of time. Even if it looks fine, the lifespan has probably been significantly reduced. That's just me though. Seconded. Water has an amazing talent for getting into ANYTHING and when it comes to wire, if it's been wet, don't use it. You can however reuse anything that was not exposed to water/outside.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:13
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I would never reuse it because I am lazy and just buy wire, but I don't really see the harm here. If the house was built in 96, the exterior light is presumably going to a GFI outlet or (not likely based on 96) a GFCI breaker. Either way, a fault in the wire would have been detected and constantly tripping the GFI. Since it isn't, what harm will running a few extra bulbs do?
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Apr 5, 2012 02:46
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jackyl posted:I would never reuse it because I am lazy and just buy wire, but I don't really see the harm here. If the house was built in 96, the exterior light is presumably going to a GFI outlet or (not likely based on 96) a GFCI breaker. Either way, a fault in the wire would have been detected and constantly tripping the GFI. According to UL, if NM-B cable has been subject to these conditions, even for short periods of time, it "should be replaced without question". grover fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Apr 5, 2012 |
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Apr 5, 2012 02:53
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grover posted:Moisture and corrosive conditions underground degrade the cable and the insulation. It might have been degraded, but not yet broken; pulling it up, bending it, etc, can cause further damage to the degraded insulation, causing cracks and breaks that could create a high-impedance short circuit of the type that will *not* trip a GFCI and not cause enough current to trip a breaker, but still cause enough current to start a fire. Corrosion inside the jacket can reduce the wire diameter and lead to overheating before the breaker trips, again, risking a fire. It's just not worth the risk. And there we have it! Ignore my comment and run with the other three.
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Apr 5, 2012 02:59
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Thanks for the info guys, that wire is going to the scrapyard. Also found that the light was fed from the same outlet that my computer is plugged into, which is not a GFI. Basically they drilled a hole through the outer layer of OSB and fed the wire under the siding and into the ground....
Risket fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Apr 5, 2012 |
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Apr 5, 2012 17:52
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Timely answers for me as well. Managed to nick the jacket on the line going to our front lamp while planting some shrubs, it was only buried 4" down. Unfortunately I can't do a trencher, as the line goes right underneath a really nice japanese maple. I'm thinking dig down to 30", backfill to 24" with pea gravel for drainage, run 1/2" schedule 40 pvc from the wall to the lamp post, do a concrete base for the lamp like this, and run THNN/THWN 12ga from the lamp back in. I'm hoping that the junction is inside where it enters the wall, otherwise i'll just cut the line up in the attic and do a junction box there. I already have a fish tape, so it should be fairly straightforward except for the digging. Sewer/mains feed/water/gas/telecom are nowhere near where I plan to do this. Thoughts? devmd01 fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Apr 9, 2012 |
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Apr 9, 2012 17:25
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devmd01 posted:Sewer/mains feed/water/gas/telecom are nowhere near where I plan to do this. Thoughts? Utility location (Call Before You Dig) is still required and is free in most locations.
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Apr 9, 2012 22:58
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I did 411 six months ago when I planted a tree and had everything marked at that time. I'm pretty sure the utilities haven't moved since then.  I popped the cover plate off where it exits the side of the house, and my job just got easier - the connection in the box is joined with some inline 20A fuses. devmd01 fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Apr 9, 2012 |
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Apr 9, 2012 23:37
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devmd01 posted:I did 411 six months ago when I planted a tree and had everything marked at that time. I'm pretty sure the utilities haven't moved since then. That's 811.
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Apr 10, 2012 02:25
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I'm going to talk to my citys building department but in the mean time, here's a question: When replacing a main panel of an older home, is the home required to meet modern code requirements (ie separate circuit for bathroom, kitchen, etc) or is it grandfathered?
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Apr 19, 2012 02:31
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dwoloz posted:I'm going to talk to my citys building department but in the mean time, here's a question: Everywhere I've ever lived and every place I've ever heard discussed, main panel replacement=whole house up to locality's current code.
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Apr 19, 2012 02:35
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That was my most recent experience as well. As much as it sucks your best bet is probably to just leave it as it is.
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Apr 19, 2012 03:31
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where i live, you're not required to bring the entire house up to code. everything in regards to the panel/service need to be brought up to code though so stuff like grounding and bonding need to meet your city's code. it differs everywhere so yeah, contact your city and they'll let you know for sure.
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Apr 19, 2012 04:56
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Everywhere I've ever lived and every place I've ever heard discussed, main panel replacement=whole house up to locality's current code.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:10
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i'm probably just used to what i know, but it seems insane to me that jurisdictions require people to bring EVERYTHING up to code. that can be such an expensive undertaking. i think the mindset my city has is that any safety upgrades (especially replacing panels..i must have changed out 50 FPEs in the last year) are good and they're happy to have people do even that. it is cool seeing the rules in the rest of the country tho, sometimes you get stuck in what you know :-)
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Apr 20, 2012 02:49
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