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Prog Doctor posted:It is a good IA solo album - but I don't think he should have put it under the TAAB banner. You just can't live up to an album like that. Yeah, I listened to them both back to back the other day, and the contrast is pretty stark. I really like TAAB2, but TAAB is untouchable.
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Apr 11, 2012 03:55
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One of the things that has soured me to Jethro Tull is Ian's voice. His voice was great on the early records, definitely one of my favorite prog rock vocalists. But like Robert Plant's voice, it weakened as the 70s wore on. I would say the change started to become noticeable by 1975's "Too Old To Rock and Roll, Too Young To Die". By the late 1970s it had become more nasal and not quite as powerful or dynamic, probably due to smoking and overuse. His voice was still quite good right up to the end of the 70s with "Stormwatch", but it had definitely weakened noticeably since the early 70s. Unfortunately, it only got worse in the 80s and he even had to have throat surgery at one point. After that his voice was never the same. In the late 80s, he adjusted his singing to more of a spoken word blues style, kind of like Marc Knopfler of Dire Straights, to compensate for his more limited range. This worked okay on the albums, even if it didn't sound particularly Tull-like, but when he had to sing the old songs live you could tell he was struggling to hold out and reach certain notes. Then, with Roots to Branches, he tried to go back to his more traditional style of singing with less demanding vocal parts, but you could tell that even this was a strain on his voice. It also sounds as if he runs out of breath too quickly. There have only been a few Tull albums since then, all great instrumentally, but weak vocally. On the studio albums it's not so bad, since he tries to write songs that fit his now more limited range, but it's still painful to hear him try to belt out signature songs like Aqualung and Thick as a Brick live and fail to reach or hold out the notes. It's a shame because, it's really one of the only reasons I have trouble getting into anything by Tull after 1979. Instrumentally the band is tighter than ever, and Ian Anderson's flute and guitar playing has only gotten better over the years. I wish they'd just hire another singer to help him out. It's not like other bands haven't done this. Look at The Beach Boys, or Pink Floyd. I'd love to be able to go to a Tull concert again and not be cringing through the more demanding vocal parts. edit: You can hear how his voice changed over the years in these youtube videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn93a1onXC0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YWcKmbWPdU After hearing this, I'm not quite sure if his voice was really weakening in the late 70s, or if he was just trying different vocal techniques on each album. I admit, I preferred his sound on the early 70s albums, but his voice still sounded quite awesome up through to Stormwatch. The second part (in the 1980s) is where you start to hear him struggling. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Apr 11, 2012 |
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Apr 11, 2012 12:59
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Gianthogweed posted:Words about IA's vocals I completely agree. Up through Stormwatch, his vocals were still strong. But his adjustments he made (vocally and musically) worked, I think, in albums like Roots To Branches, and Nightcap. But, as you mentioned, I don't want to cringe throughout live performances. Ian can't pull off TAAB(1) vocally. And from what I've seen on youtube, I'm not sure his band (Scott Hammond on drums in particular) could pull it off either. I'm very interested, though, to see what Scott H does with the drum solo at the beginning of the 2nd half of TAAB(1). Maybe once the tour starts, if youtube can show that it's worth it, I'll buy tickets. But I don't have confidence enough to just buy them automatically.
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Apr 12, 2012 02:39
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Prog Doctor posted:I completely agree. Up through Stormwatch, his vocals were still strong. But his adjustments he made (vocally and musically) worked, I think, in albums like Roots To Branches, and Nightcap. I saw Tull in 1996 on the Roots to Branches tour, they were touring with ELP, actually. The band was excellent, even tighter than they were in the 1970s. But Ian's vocals were a big letdown. I had bought Roots to Branches, and noticed that his voice wasn't as strong on the cd as he was on the older albums, but he sounded okay and the music was great, so I was looking forward to seeing them. But I hadn't expected him to be unable to sing the old classics live. Also, I think he had recently broken his leg, so he wasn't moving around the stage as much as he usually does. It almost ruined the concert for me because I had much higher expectations, but fortunately, they all made up for it by playing their instruments so well and really rocking out. The drummer at the time was Doane Perry, who was more than capable to handle the parts. I'm not too familiar with the current lineup as I haven't really followed Tull much since then. I notice Doane Perry left, I guess it will be awhile before they break this new guy in. edit: All this Jethro Tull talk reminded me of this episode of Yacht Rock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZBXNtMKJp4 Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Apr 12, 2012 |
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Apr 12, 2012 04:08
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Latest news from the Dream Theater website:quote:Joining DREAM THEATER, starting June 16 in Columbus, Ohio and for the rest of the tour, is special guest Crimson Projekct featuring Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, Pat Mastelotto, Markus Reuter, Julie Slick and Tobias Ralph. They’ll be performing the songs of progressive rock legends King Crimson. Looks like I might have to make a trip to the states this summer.
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Apr 14, 2012 03:27
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teen bear posted:Latest news from the Dream Theater website: Holy poo poo Columbus is only a 3 hour drive for me. Too bad none of my friends really love prog. 
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Apr 14, 2012 19:44
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Argh, I would bend over backwards to see that particular Projekct (well, any Projekct) except I really really can't stand Dream Theater. I know this makes me a bad prog fan, but that's me. They're fantastic musicians, but I like prog bands who can write three minute AND thirty minute tunes---and they've never found a lick or a melody they've liked that they haven't turned into a half-hour multi-part affair.
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Apr 14, 2012 23:07
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No, it's ok. Dream Theater suck. They have absolutely no soul to their music. Technically brilliant, but that's all.
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Apr 15, 2012 00:01
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DaWolfey posted:No, it's ok. Dream Theater suck. They have absolutely no soul to their music. Technically brilliant, but that's all. I agree with this, but can't really define what "soul" is, so I just give in and end up liking it anyway. I know they're uncool and plastic, but there are some really pretty sections in there. I'm anxious to see how the guest musician thing plays out, though.
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Apr 15, 2012 00:24
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It seems kind of silly to call Dream Theater, or any metal for that matter, soulless. I mean, I don't look to metal for something that will resonate with me emotionally, but energy and technical proficiency. I think Dream Theater have put out some classic prog metal (Scenes from a Memory, the Twelve Steps suite, much of Images and Words and Awake), and even though I haven't enjoyed much of their later work, I'd go to see them live with or without Crimson Projekct, as they are a fantastic live band. That said, they'll be in Kansas City just a few days after NEARfest, and I'm worried I'll be too burnt out/behind on work to go. I'd love to, though. Edit: I'm also a bad prog fan, as I hate just about everything I've heard by Spock's Beard/Neal Morse, The Flower Kings, and (predictably) Transatlantic. Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Apr 15, 2012 |
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Apr 15, 2012 00:40
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Rollersnake posted:It seems kind of silly to call Dream Theater, or any metal for that matter, soulless. I mean, I don't look to metal for something that will resonate with me emotionally, but energy and technical proficiency. I wouldn't call them soulless (except in the way everything that's not Sam & Dave/The Supremes/Aretha Franklin/The Bar-Kays/Stevie Wonder/The Temptations/et al. lacks soul), it just doesn't do it for me. However, I certainly do best enjoy metal that resonates emotionally, but I generally listen to doom, stoner, drone and occasionally industrial (SYL) metal, so your mileage may vary.
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Apr 15, 2012 00:51
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Rollersnake posted:
You aren't a bad prog fan. I don't care for neo-prog either. There just aren't enough hooks in new prog. I can't hum a melody or anything by the newer bands. They just all seem to be playing AT me with no sense of dynamics. Most classic prog, seem to have lots of catchy hooks, and I never have a problem with metal bands from any era. But something about Dream Theater and the other new stuff just doesn't hit me. It was technically impressive, but I also tend to like that old school prog formula of mixing classical, jazz, folk, and sometimes even a bit of funk (Cross Eyed Mary, the middle of Echoes, Elephant Talk) in my prog rock stew. The newer bands aren't as experimental with mixing genres. Massive Attack's Mezzanine seems to do a better example of what I like about older prog rock.
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Apr 15, 2012 20:11
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The "soulless" criticism of Dream Theater has always seemed ridiculous to me. Have you people heard Images and Words? That album is undeniably fantastic stuff. Also, Spock's Beard and Transatlantic kinda blow. After looking at the lineups I thought there'd be no way I couldn't love it, but man, I was totally wrong.
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Apr 15, 2012 20:19
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Can't believe that hate for Transatlantic  They have the melodies, emotion, and technical prowess. It's a total package. I may be biased though, 'cause I'm a big Neale Morse fan. But, I don't like The Whirlwind. It has nothing that made their first two albums special.
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Apr 15, 2012 22:59
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I don't categorically dislike neo. Spock's Beard always struck me as too... fluffy, and it's very rare that I can get past the overbearing Christianity to enjoy solo Morse (I'm rather fond of Author of Confusion from One, but not much else). Flower Kings I really want to like (I've enjoyed Roine Stolt in other contexts), but nothing I've heard by them has really excited me, and they're extremely longwinded. Marillion, though, I like more often than not because they can write a good song that sticks in my head, prog or not. Their lyrics (both Fish and Hogarth eras) are occasionally a complete embarrassment, but it's a testament to their songwriting ability that they can put out a song with the chorus "I'm scared of everything I am / I'm scared of opening the can / I'm scared of losing her, I am / think I might've taken all I can" and I love it. Marbles is neo-prog's Dark Side of the Moon in my eyes—certainly not in terms of innovation or impact, but thematically, and in being a diverse, engaging album on which every single track is great, and yet it still manages to be greater than the sum of its parts. edit: hahaha, Spock's Bears
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Apr 16, 2012 00:55
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Rollersnake posted:Marillion, though, I like more often than not because they can write a good song that sticks in my head, prog or not. Their lyrics (both Fish and Hogarth eras) are occasionally a complete embarrassment, but it's a testament to their songwriting ability that they can put out a song with the chorus "I'm scared of everything I am / I'm scared of opening the can / I'm scared of losing her, I am / think I might've taken all I can" and I love it. Marbles is neo-prog's Dark Side of the Moon in my eyes—certainly not in terms of innovation or impact, but thematically, and in being a diverse, engaging album on which every single track is great, and yet it still manages to be greater than the sum of its parts. I completely agree. I was thinking about what album I'd choose if I could only ever listen to one album again, and decided on Marbles, simply because of the diversity and sheer amount of heavy-hitters (in the vein of Afraid of Sunlight, This Strange Engine) I mean, Invisible Man, Fantastic Place, Only Unforgivable Thing, Ocean Cloud, You're Gone, and Neverland... it's ridiculous. However I must confess to being the daughter of Marillion guitarist Steve Rothery, so I'm sort of genetically compelled to gush.
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Apr 16, 2012 12:52
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Trees and Squids posted:The "soulless" criticism of Dream Theater has always seemed ridiculous to me. Have you people heard Images and Words? That album is undeniably fantastic stuff. Some segments of Awake and A Change of Seasons I also find hard to reconcile with the 'soulless' appellation. The common denominator is of course Kevin Moore, although I'd say people ascribe too much to him if not for the fact everything else he's ever done resonates emotionally for me (hell, even the Fate's Warning albums where he didn't participate in the writing process).
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Apr 16, 2012 13:49
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Neurosis posted:Some segments of Awake and A Change of Seasons I also find hard to reconcile with the 'soulless' appellation. The common denominator is of course Kevin Moore, although I'd say people ascribe too much to him if not for the fact everything else he's ever done resonates emotionally for me (hell, even the Fate's Warning albums where he didn't participate in the writing process). "Space-Dye Vest" is one of those sleeper tracks that stuck in my head and gradually became compulsive listening—I don't think I really cared for it much at first, but nowadays if I listen to only one track from Awake, it's that. It makes me wonder how Dream Theater would have turned out had Moore stuck around, though I think Jordan Rudess is much more the keyboardist Dream Theater needs. The first OSI album is fantastic, but I think that's the only Kevin Moore project I enjoy in its entirety. Moore is one of those rare lyricists who resonates with me more when he's aiming for universal rather than personal, and I also think he's one of those artists who needs to collaborate in order to reach his full potential—all of his solo Chroma Key stuff I've heard has struck me as pretty lifeless and dull.
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Apr 16, 2012 17:26
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Holy poo poo I just got the remasters to "In the Court of the Crimson King", "In the Wake of Poseidon", "Lizard", and "Starless and Bible Black". I haven't heard Starless yet. These really sound AMAZING. You have to understand - I've been listening to these since I was a kid in the 70s. I was a weird kid. These sound better than than they ever have. "Lizard" as was mentioned here earlier is really striking. It has a lot more "presence" to it. The vocals are clearer than they've ever sounded. For some reason I was also struck by the drums in "21st Century Schizoid Man" and the background woodwinds in "I Talk to the Wind". I thought the 30th Anniversary editions sounded good, but the new ones make those sound like poo poo. It's like I've been listening to them underwater for decades, and now I can hear what they really sound like. I don't usually make a big deal about a lot of remasters, but these are something else.
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Apr 16, 2012 21:02
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Mithra6 posted:I thought the 30th Anniversary editions sounded good, but the new ones make those sound like poo poo. It's like I've been listening to them underwater for decades, and now I can hear what they really sound like. That's exactly how I felt when I heard them  I haven't been listening to them for nearly as long as you have (a few years as opposed to a few decades), but still, I was blown away by how awful they made all the other versions sound.
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Apr 16, 2012 21:07
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nihil morari posted:I don't like The Whirlwind. It has nothing that made their first two albums special. Agreed. Also, Portnoy came right out and said the sole purpose of that song/album was to one-up PT's The Incident. I believe it was in an issue of Prog Magazine that he said that. I really wanted to like A Dramatic Turn Of Events. The music wasn't half bad. But then I started paying attention to the lyrics. Maybe it's just because James LaBrie sounds whiny, but the lyrics, to me, sounded like they were written by a 14 year old girl. I think Dream Theater has taken their sound as far as they can. Perhaps that happened with Train Of Thought (the last of their albums that I thoroughly enjoyed). I'm really excited, though, to hear Astra's new album, Storm Corrosion, and the new one from Gavin Harrison & 05ric.
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Apr 16, 2012 23:05
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Mithra6 posted:Holy poo poo I just got the remasters to "In the Court of the Crimson King", "In the Wake of Poseidon", "Lizard", and "Starless and Bible Black". I haven't heard Starless yet. The only version of Lizard I've heard is the newest remaster so I kept wondering why everyone seemed to hate it so much. Now I know why. Well, that and I guess Gordon Haskell wasn't the greatest singer.
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Apr 17, 2012 01:21
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mjs6643 posted:The only version of Lizard I've heard is the newest remaster so I kept wondering why everyone seemed to hate it so much. Now I know why. Well, that and I guess Gordon Haskell wasn't the greatest singer. The older master was a bit top heavy. The drums especially sounded tinny. It still was a great album though. And yes, ol' Gord takes some warming up to, but I think his voice fits the album perfectly and adds to the strangeness.
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Apr 17, 2012 06:17
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Rollersnake posted:"Space-Dye Vest" is one of those sleeper tracks that stuck in my head and gradually became compulsive listening—I don't think I really cared for it much at first, but nowadays if I listen to only one track from Awake, it's that. It makes me wonder how Dream Theater would have turned out had Moore stuck around, though I think Jordan Rudess is much more the keyboardist Dream Theater needs. OSI's first album I found very uneven and a bit unrefined. I definitely prefer the later output. As for Chroma Key, I can see that opinion for Dead Air for Radios and You Go Now, but Graveyard Mountain Home (especially with the accompanying video) is masterful.
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Apr 17, 2012 08:59
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Gianthogweed posted:The older master was a bit top heavy. The drums especially sounded tinny. It still was a great album though. And yes, ol' Gord takes some warming up to, but I think his voice fits the album perfectly and adds to the strangeness. I felt the old mix was just ugly and muffled - stuff like "Happy Family" didn't have any power to it, which it does on the new remaster. Like, you want to be overwhelmed by how chaotic the thing is, but the old mix had it just sounding like a mess. I don't know how to describe it - this is the only time a remaster greatly changed my opinion of an album.
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Apr 17, 2012 16:49
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Prog Doctor posted:Agreed. Also, Portnoy came right out and said the sole purpose of that song/album was to one-up PT's The Incident. I believe it was in an issue of Prog Magazine that he said that. Haha, is he still bitter that Wilson said Dream Theater sucks?
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Apr 18, 2012 02:03
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nihil morari posted:Haha, is he still bitter that Wilson said Dream Theater sucks? When and in what context did this happen?
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Apr 19, 2012 16:02
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nihil morari posted:Haha, is he still bitter that Wilson said Dream Theater sucks?
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Apr 19, 2012 17:59
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From what I can remember, he said something to the effect of "Dream Theater is not the kind of music I'd consider progressive, it's soulless noodling" or something of the sort, which enraged at the Theater fans. Years later, Portnoy got him to record an "apology" statement, which he then put on an awful track on the worst DT album.
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Apr 19, 2012 18:35
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WaffleStomp posted:From what I can remember, he said something to the effect of "Dream Theater is not the kind of music I'd consider progressive, it's soulless noodling" or something of the sort, which enraged at the Theater fans. Years later, Portnoy got him to record an "apology" statement, which he then put on an awful track on the worst DT album. Haha, what song is this? I kind of gave up on Dream Theater after Octavarium aside from the remainder of the Twelve Steps suite.
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Apr 19, 2012 19:06
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Rollersnake posted:Haha, what song is this? I kind of gave up on Dream Theater after Octavarium aside from the remainder of the Twelve Steps suite. It's the slow track from the 12-steps suite, Repentance. There's a bunch of prog musicians reciting "apologies" in the track, and you can really make out SW's part, mainly because it sounds like such a phoned in, bullshit apology to begin with.
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Apr 19, 2012 19:15
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Oh, I guess I never really paid close attention to those voices. That's pretty ridiculous. (I also wouldn't call Steven Wilson any more progressive than Dream Theater, but petty inter-band drama is funny.) Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 19:25
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WaffleStomp posted:From what I can remember, he said something to the effect of "Dream Theater is not the kind of music I'd consider progressive, it's soulless noodling" or something of the sort, which enraged at the Theater fans. Years later, Portnoy got him to record an "apology" statement, which he then put on an awful track on the worst DT album. ....what  I haven't even heard all that much of Dream Theater's music before, but I know of Portnoy's personality and this sounds exactly like something he would do. Completely insane, and yet incredible. Wilson's probably having a good laugh about that.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:27
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Prog Doctor posted:I really wanted to like A Dramatic Turn Of Events. The music wasn't half bad. But then I started paying attention to the lyrics. Maybe it's just because James LaBrie sounds whiny, but the lyrics, to me, sounded like they were written by a 14 year old girl. They've been that way for a while. A friend and I have a running joke which is just the line "EVERYONE SURVIVED" drawn out in an overly dramatic fashion (the reason for which has already been immortalized here - http://www.somethingawful.com/d/garbage-day/dream-theater-volta.php).
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Apr 22, 2012 02:23
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Henry Fungletrumpet posted:They've been that way for a while. A friend and I have a running joke which is just the line "EVERYONE SURVIVED" drawn out in an overly dramatic fashion (the reason for which has already been immortalized here - http://www.somethingawful.com/d/garbage-day/dream-theater-volta.php). That review was perfect! The last Dream Theater album I actually liked was Train Of Thought. While the lyrics were still absolute crap, they were tolerable - overshadowed enough by the music, I suppose. And just like DT, Mars Volta are really good at releasing garbage.
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Apr 23, 2012 06:29
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I think Dream Theater have put out some good songs since Six Degrees, but for the most part it's been pretty bad. I do think the quality of the music itself overshadows the terrible-ness of the lyrics on a lot of those good songs though (The Count of Tuscany, In The Presence of Enemies pt 1, Octavarium in particular). I think In The Name Of God is the only post-6DOIT song where I like the lyrics and music as much as each other. I haven't been able to get in to the Mars Volta as easily, but I do like listening to De-Loused In The Comatorium occasionally v  v
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Apr 23, 2012 07:18
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I feel like Frances the Mute is the best Mars Volta album by a pretty large margin, but I couldn't tell you exactly why. It's just always felt like a great album to me. Maybe it's because the dynamics are really good, and that's something Amputechture and Bedlam abandoned for almost uniform loudness. There's nothing quite as immediately memorable as, say, Inertiatic ESP, but there are plenty of great melodies, and I feel like the compositions are more sophisticated than on De-Loused. And even though the average song length is the longest of any Mars Volta album, it's never felt tedious to me—outside of perhaps the ending to The Widow, I feel every song totally earns its length. Octahedron is the only Mars Volta album I don't really feel anything for—it's a return to simpler and more varied songs like on De-Loused, but it lacks the energy and strong melodies that made De-Loused great. No one track stands out to me as weak, but as a whole it just feels limp and uninspiring. Still waiting on my copy of Noctourniquet to come in the mail—hope it gets here tomorrow. Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 07:55
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Deloused is one of my favourite albums of all time but I haven't felt a fraction of that affection towards anything they've released since. Actually, Octahedron is probably my second favourite, if I had to pick one. I agree that it feels kind of limp and uninspired, but I appreciate that it isn't as christing spastic and unintelligible as their other post-Coma stuff. So how is this thread not bursting with praise for Anathema's newun, Weather Systems? I've had it on near-constant repeat for a few days and poo poo is incredible. It feels like a pretty natural extension of We're Here Because We're Here (even referencing it lyrically in one part), except the songs sound more like grand compositions than straight-forward band-oriented stuff, with electric guitar and drums taking a back seat to acoustic guitar or piano melodies for much of it (also loads of big swelling orchestra bits). Actually much more of an atmospheric rock album than "prog" in the strictest sense, but it's obvious that they're still trying to evolve and make involving, expressive music in new and inventive ways, and really I'd say that counts for more as far as being progressive is concerned. My personal highlight, The Lost Child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LdqtTsjqI Henry Fungletrumpet fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 11:00
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Henry Fungletrumpet posted:...anathema... The band divides a lot of fans obviously, their stuff before A Natural Disaster has quite a different sound than that album and We're Here.., as well as this. Personally, I like the newer stuff more. Not that I don't like their previous efforts, it's just I like the sound they achieved with these past few records. It's so grandiose, beautiful, and epic sounding. "The Storm Before The Calm" is a highlight for me.
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Apr 23, 2012 20:54
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I had been waiting eagerly for the CD/DVD version of Weather Systems to arrive before I listened to it so I could play it in 5.1. It arrived yesterday and my first impression was that I liked it but a few songs didn't really grab me. I've listened to it like three times today though and I like it more and more every time. I think I prefer it as a whole to anything else that they've done, but my favourite Anathema songs are from a wide scope of their albums (right now, at least). A Simple Mistake, Universal, Flying, Are You There?, Fragile Dreams and Release are hard songs to best in my book.
strap on revenge fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Apr 24, 2012 |
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Apr 24, 2012 05:00
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