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See, that's not what I'm saying. I don't like dumbing poo poo down as "grim dark" or "serious." Moreover, if you think a game where a dog has a shock collar to invoke its OTHER SELF is taking itself seriously, I don't know what to tell you. I think Persona 3 is cooler because of its color palette being based around blues. I think yellow is kinda gaudy and would normally stand out. I think modern fashion and more universal sensibilities/concepts can be seen in terms of Persona 3's aesthetics. But here's what Persona 4 does better: It has better characters, especially in how it treats them. While its message isn't as universal in some respects (it's very Japanese, but that's not necessarily a problem in terms of quality), it's still REALLY good. I feel the themes it touches on makes all the characters in the cast stand out for great reasons. Some of Persona 3's cast just feel generic by comparison. Overall, I still think Junpei is a cooler Magician Arcana character. I think Persona 3's main character is cooler in that he/she is more of an everyman in a game sense. I liked Persona 3's city setting more. I think its color palette is better, I think it just oozes style moreso than Persona 4. Invokers > Tarot Cards, btw. But Persona 4 is a better game, has better characters, has better mechanics. It just lacks that "je ne sais quoi" that Persona 3 has. I think I agree with Catalina in that they are both absolutely different in what they excel at. Dat Mitsuru Marin Karin though... that's poo poo though lol. drat right I remember the worst parts! I think that's another strength though. I liked that you couldn't always control your party members in 3, mainly because it really made them feel like their own people in combat. Sometimes that didn't work out, but overall the effect made me appreciate the cast in a game sense.
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Apr 15, 2012 03:36
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I think you should give P3:FES a shot personally. If you liked P4, you really should like P3 as the general playstyle of the game itself is pretty similar. There's a social aspect, and the turn-style combat aspect of it. There are differences in the nuances but as you can tell it mostly just causes woeful P4 vs P3 arguments that boil down to personal preferences. On the other hand P3PSP changes the format around moderately to accommodate the PSP. To a point that I can honestly see how it would put some people off due to the lack of visual engagement. Keep in mind you might genuinely be burnt out on Persona itself. They are long games and you are basically looking at another 60 hours or so of a game you just came off playing or whatever. I would really not worry about the AI, it screws you in some battles but for the most part it's not an ongoing thing. Also in P3 you start with the weakness scanner unlike P4.
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Apr 15, 2012 03:53
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manny kaltz posted:So, do you guys think getting Persona 3:FES would be worthwhile? If you have a PS3, it's only $10 right now. There are worse ways to spend that. 
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Apr 15, 2012 03:59
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I have to say though as much as I didn't care about visual style one way or the other in P3, the opening scene where Thanatos goes crazy on the Magician is amazing in P3P. Using the game's actual graphics engine to keep the flow of the scene rather than switch to some dumb anime made the beatdown on the Magician look that much more brutal and awesome. If only more of P3P's scenes had been like that then I'm sure less people would care about the VN style.
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Apr 15, 2012 04:01
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I'm pretty sure I'd throw my money at Atlus again if they ever did an updated updated updated re-re-re release of Persona 3 where they rendered the Persona 3 Portable scenes with 3d models. I suspect mostly everyone else would want to kill them for milking that dead horse dry, though. 
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Apr 15, 2012 04:24
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I thought the inverse. I think the scene lacks impact on P3P, because the animated cutscene looked way better than seeing some cheap model renders in this case. Lost all sense of impact on PSP and just isn't as memorable.
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Apr 15, 2012 04:27
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The anime scene was too jarring and flow breaking for me, especially since I could not tell what the hell was supposed to be happening and the animation was not very good. EDIT: Then again, I've never liked the anime scenes in any of these games including Catherine, ESPECIALLY in Catherine's case where the in game graphics and motions were fantastic so there was no need to go to anime. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Apr 15, 2012 |
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Apr 15, 2012 04:30
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Yeah, with me, I could take or leave the animated scenes. They weren't very high quality, and the characters always looked off model to me. Though, I do believe the animated scenes were better than when the still shots were used in P3P.
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Apr 15, 2012 04:37
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For me it's the audio that drives me nuts in P3PSP. The different recording volumes on the new VA is very noticeable to me and sounds jarring at times.
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Apr 15, 2012 04:42
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If the engine had the kind of scale that Shin Megami Tensei 3 had, I think in-game cutscenes wouldn't be too bad. In this case, though, I really find Persona 3 and subsequent engines to be off-putting, even if they're sub-branches they are tiny in comparison and scale. If they were doing things like Digital Devil Saga, who knows, but as it stands P3 and P3P in-game rendering looks like the little leagues in comparison. That and I don't like the kind of immersion that's created through still character portraits and lovely menus. The scene itself, though... off model or not, Persona 3's in-game engine just isn't going to accomplish the same visual impact. I'm not picky, I just think there's a clear standard. The game is already low budget in areas, so the anime scenes definitely helped add some flavor.
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Apr 15, 2012 04:48
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The anime scenes simply helped convey silence and scale when they needed to. The animation was nothing special but that wasn't the point. It was to show the characters as more than super deformed models, even for a moment. P3P absolutely shits on the first evoker scene by removing the anime cutscene because the replacement is an in-engine re-enactment that lacks any of the weight of the main character simply considering the possibility of him actually shooting himself. Not to mention the background music playing which also kind of kills the mood there. Like someone else said, SMT3 could do without those scenes because its aesthetics were always in full-scale serious mode all the time. Persona 3 Portable lost a lot of the immersion by not allowing you to literally walk in your character's shoes, and didn't really offer anything to suitably replace that. I realize it's probably a fault of the hardware but it doesn't mean I'm not going to point out where it's deficient compared to Vanilla or FES. For the record, I don't even care about most of the anime cutscenes because after a certain amount of time with the game you're emotionally invested enough for the models to mean something. That part of the game really needs more than what the normal graphics engine was allowing for, though.
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Apr 15, 2012 05:14
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I really didn't mind the VN aspect of P3P, it didn't hinder the game at all for me. But that's my own personal tastes, as I play and enjoy Visual Novel styled games anyway. I had played some P3:FES (through a friend) before I ended up picking up P3P and despite the lack of having my main character walk around with his hands in his pockets, not once did I think I was getting a sub-par experience because of the lack of character models.
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Apr 15, 2012 05:40
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I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my question. I decided to bite the bullet and buy Persona 3:FES from Amazon UK for ~20 AUD. drat my lack of impulse control! Atlus games I own: Strange Journey (the first one I purchased, in October last year...) Nocturne Digital Devil Saga 1 Digital Devil Saga 2 Persona 4 Persona 3: Portable Persona 2: Innocent Sin Persona: Revelations Atlus games I have recently purchased: Persona 3: FES Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. the Souless Army (I would have bought the second one as well, but it never received a PAL release) Atlus games I will buy eventually, probably even this year: Persona 4: The Golden Persona 2: Eternal Punishment Atlus games I have finished: Persona 4 (Good Ending) I've gotten to Sector G/H twice in Strange Journey and then gave up because it just got to much for me (in terms of the time and effort I would need to beat the bosses of Sector H). In summary: Atlus  My lack of impulse control
manny kaltz fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 15, 2012 |
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Apr 15, 2012 14:18
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You know, I remembered that Persona 4 had a long introduction narration, but somehow I had managed to forget that it has the War and Peace of JPRG introduction sequences...I've almost, ALMOST unlocked the first castle dungeon. I want to shake the PS2 and yell, "just let me play already,!" I know I could hold triangle to skip through the opening, but I want to see it, too.
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Apr 16, 2012 01:20
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Good god, Day 5 of Devil Survivor 2 is just really really anime in how to bring down the boss. WE MUST USE DANCING AND SEX APPEAL TO OBTAIN VICTORY! So let's get the half-naked girl to dance and then convince the girl who hates her to act sexy because they're rivals or something, kthxbai. I mean really.
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Apr 16, 2012 02:38
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Good god, Day 5 of Devil Survivor 2 is just really really anime in how to bring down the boss. I consider all that worth it for 'YOU SAID YOU'D PROTECT MEEEE!"
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Apr 16, 2012 02:53
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I just got there too and when I found out who I needed to use I set the game down for the day. The youngest person in the cast is "sex appeal". Seriously? What in the gently caress. I think we may have hit the new low point for the SMT franchise in this single moment, ugh. Someone tell me that I'm not going to have to watch her shake her rear end or something like I'm told you have the 'dancer' doing for her mission.
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Apr 16, 2012 02:53
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Syrg Sapphire posted:I just got there too and when I found out who I needed to use I set the game down for the day. It's not as bad as it sounds. In either case.
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Apr 16, 2012 02:55
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Just remember, all of this is only happening because Persona 3 went anime and sold a ton. You have no one to blame but yourselves.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:21
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Syrg Sapphire posted:I just got there too and when I found out who I needed to use I set the game down for the day. It's not that bad. Airi just does a few poses with her sprite and nothing is ever seen, although they do state that she was starting to remove her shirt and Kama sees her belly button which cause him to come out... because he is the belly button demon. But yeah, it's still really stupid and dumb and I hate it and hope Day 5 ends quickly so I can put this all behind me.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:27
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Sex_Ferguson posted:It's not that bad. Airi just does a few poses with her sprite and nothing is ever seen, although they do state that she was starting to remove her shirt and Kama sees her belly button which cause him to come out... because he is the belly button demon. But yeah, it's still really stupid and dumb and I hate it and hope Day 5 ends quickly so I can put this all behind me. And the game mocks every part of the event. It's not serious.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:31
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MarsDragon posted:Just remember, all of this is only happening because Persona 3 went anime and sold a ton. You have no one to blame but yourselves. There was certainly nothing anime about the first two Persona games. Believe it.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:34
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MarsDragon posted:Just remember, all of this is only happening because Persona 3 went anime and sold a ton. You have no one to blame but yourselves. For what it's worth I avoided P4 after the FES clusterfuck, so... you ain't pinning poo poo on me. (If I wanted to be hyperdefensive I'd point out it's a friend's copy of DS2 as well.) Glad it's not nearly as bad in execution as it sounds, but still. Christ. Bring back main-series SMT already, jesus.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:37
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MarsDragon posted:Just remember, all of this is only happening because Persona 3 went anime and sold a ton. You have no one to blame but yourselves. While P3 certainly added elements... did I miss the universe where the other SMT games didn't have wacky anime stuff? I mean even excluding P1 and 2, the drat series mascot is a wacky cartoon version of Jack Frost. I know people like to pretend that SMT was Serious Business Times but it had its fair share of goofy poo poo even before Persona as well.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:37
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Well all that and also Persona 3/4 are actually very good games that aren't archaic Wizardrylike nonsense or punishingly difficult for difficult's own sake.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:47
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...Wasn't there a Devil Summoner anime or something like that? And didn't DDS have a beach scene? This series is pretty anime. EDIT: Actually, three animes before the Persona ones! Including a children's show! I guess I'm ruining the franchise because I don't regret buying 3, FES, and 4, and I do plan on buying Arena. PunkBoy fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 03:49
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I dunno, I still never get the whole "anime" thing. All of the SMT games are "anime", there's anime characters in anime school with anime magic fighting anime monsters. There's some wacky anime and there's some serious anime.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:49
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It's that stupid thing some people say online to generalize something they're uncomfortable with seeing in Japanese media.
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Apr 16, 2012 03:54
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Corrosion posted:It's that stupid thing some people say online to generalize something they're uncomfortable with seeing in Japanese media. If you can name a better term for it I'll start using that because it feels even worse just going "oh that's just Japan" (and I'm pretty sure that'd be even more inaccurate). Like you can go on about how the previous games were a bit quirky in places but P3 totally cranked up the potentially-skeezy factor, it's hard to deny, and Strange Journey's basically the only one to escape it completely since.
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Apr 16, 2012 04:01
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Syrg Sapphire posted:If you can name a better term for it I'll start using that because it feels even worse just going "oh that's just Japan" (and I'm pretty sure that'd be even more inaccurate). You mean pedophilia? Or sexist? Or dumb? I'm saying be specific, instead of "lazy and typical." I think Japan does dumb crap too, just cause I see it in a lot of media doesn't mean that's all that media is capable of presenting. Or maybe I should hate on something like "Kids on the Slope", cause it's anime, right? I just like to call it for what it is instead of rely on a buzzword that stratifies a culture or group at the bottom of something. I don't like people saying "American", even though lots of Americans do dumb things, to describe stuff. We can call this post "Persona 4: The Golden Rule."
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Apr 16, 2012 04:07
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Juvenile, childish, cartoony...? I realize you're not trying to rag specifically on Japan, but when the word 'anime''s usage in the West is a blanket term to refer to all Japanese animation, you're still sending the wrong message. When we say anime we're more or less referring to the kind of writing and art that is prevalent in anime for kids and teens, so I see it as what the three terms I mentioned at the topic means for Japan. Edit: It's also why a lot of tropes associated with anime disappear when you read manga specifically targeted at adults (Though, like any medium, the writer isn't always up to the task of writing for that audience, so that poo poo can still happen). Nickoten fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 04:14
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I'm just checking. Nowhere in my posts did I call things "anime", I just didn't know if there was a better blanket term I should be using in those cases where I have to point to something and go "okay this poo poo right here is bad. bad (whoever). don't do this". Thanks for being cool about this and not bristling or anything. That's rare enough online. Totally serious. edit: to both of y'all, there was only one post before the forums poo poo the bed as I tried writing this claw game handjob fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 04:15
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Syrg Sapphire posted:I'm just checking. Nowhere in my posts did I call things "anime", I just didn't know if there was a better blanket term I should be using in those cases where I have to point to something and go "okay this poo poo right here is bad. bad (whoever). don't do this". I was gonna say, you didn't say anything that I was directing any of my post toward lol. It's cool, man. I just see "JRPG = Genre" and "anime" as things I'd rather start calling out. Cause it be lazy!
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Apr 16, 2012 04:22
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Nah it's not a problem. When everyone on the internet uses a term like that at every opportunity, adopting it doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to push some anti-Japanese agenda or something. It just helps to think about the words we use and what they mean. I'm pretty sure I say a lot of poo poo that I'm not thinking through all the time and don't realize it. Edit: Also to clarify I wasn't even targeting anyone in this thread. Just responding to your call for an alternative.
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Apr 16, 2012 04:23
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Syrg Sapphire posted:I'm just checking. Nowhere in my posts did I call things "anime", I just didn't know if there was a better blanket term I should be using in those cases where I have to point to something and go "okay this poo poo right here is bad. bad (whoever). don't do this". I dunno, TVTropes is becoming the new Goon scapegoat for "all the unsavory behavior that makes us feel like bad human beings" nowdays, it may even dethrone "anime as gently caress". Possibly to help both your question and the questions of the others, when I see someone on the forums decry something as "anime", it typically means: (WARNING: Talking out of my rear end follows; this is just my personal view on things)
Now, to be 'anime', it only would need one of these things, 'anime as gently caress' would need at least two, and 'JAPAAAAAAN ' would need all three. This would mean that Metal Wolf Chaos would be anime, a normal Gundam series or Persona game would be anime as gently caress, and something like No More Heroes or any SRW game would cross the line into the third category.</  >
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Apr 16, 2012 04:28
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Just call the stuff in DS2 silly and occasionally uncomfortable, because it is very silly, and that scene with Airi having "sex appeal" did make me very uncomfortable. Whereas P4 is silly at times but never uncomfortable.
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Apr 16, 2012 04:29
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Cityinthesea posted:Whereas P4 is silly at times but never uncomfortable. I won't lie, the stuff with Kanji did kind of make me uncomfortable lol.
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Apr 16, 2012 04:32
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Corrosion posted:I won't lie, the stuff with Kanji did kind of make me uncomfortable lol. ...Yeah, pretty much everything related to the Midnight Channel was pretty high-grade creeper territory.
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Apr 16, 2012 04:36
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Everything Atlus makes is pretty much TVTropes As gently caress.
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Apr 16, 2012 04:38
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All video games ever are TVTropes As gently caress. All of them. Every single one.
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Apr 16, 2012 04:39
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