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If Jaguar had a low-end counterpart that could make that wagon slower with better mileage, crummy interior, lighter weight and not quite as pretty, but for around $25-30k, I'd buy it tomorrow. Edit: vv don't need awd, too poor fuel economy for the power. Good weight though and the length is just about good enough for me. Basically there are a ton of old wagons I'd just like to drop a new turbo 4cyl and modern transmission into. davebo fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 16:51
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Sounds like you need a 4th gen Legacy wagon. I think they're handsome at least  
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Apr 16, 2012 17:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Hate to break it to you but I really don't think that boomers are the only reason that CUVs are so popular. I'm young and I see a shitload of my peers buying them. Well yeah because that's all that's on the market. People will buy what's available from the major brands. The only wagons left are Subaru (which are slowly morphing into CUVs), maybe the Toyota Venza, and then Cadillac and Audi, which are way expensive. I think young people may warm to the wagon concept. After all, they are buying hatchbacks again. In part, the key is style. A long and low wagon looks much cooler than a fat, puffy, and upright CUV, and usually drives that way, too. Hell, people bought the Dodge Magnum for a bit (until that fad died - possibly also because it was a little too low to be useful or for you to see out of).
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Apr 16, 2012 17:45
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Cream_Filling posted:Well yeah because that's all that's on the market. People will buy what's available from the major brands. The only wagons left are Subaru (which are slowly morphing into CUVs), maybe the Toyota Venza, and then Cadillac and Audi, which are way expensive. I thought I read that the Magnum was single-handedly killed by some executive who has since left the company, and some other exec said there was a strong following and he'd like to revive it. I see a lot of Magnums around my area and that photoshop someone did of a challenger-inspired Magnum I would buy in a heartbeat if they could make it weigh under 4,000 pounds. I mean all the automakers have wagons, they just don't sell them in America. I assume SUV's are more profitable so they don't want to lose sales from there. Edit: This isn't the image I recall but it's essentially the same idea:  I would buy this 
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Apr 16, 2012 19:11
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There's no real reason SUVs should be more profitable now that they're all unibody crossovers and require the same engineering investment as any other car. As I understand it, the old BOF SUVs were profitable because they were cheap trucks with roofs, interiors, and big markups added on top at minimal additional development cost since Body on Frame doesn't care and the pickup already subsidized the development. Also, maybe they didn't have to meet as rigorous standards as light trucks. That challenger/plymouth gran fury wagon photoshop thing is hot as gently caress and if I were rich, I would go to a coachbuilder and have them make me one right now. I wonder what the cost would be to have it done. I mean, poo poo, someone paid for this monstrosity: 
OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 19:19
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I think the whole wagons issue ties into generally the cyclical nature of what people want to move medium-to-large families around in. Wagons were around first but because 1950s parents drove them, boomers wanted something new. So boomers got minivans. Then the next generation didn't want minivans because their parents drove them so they got SUVs/CUVs. Now hatches are making a comeback because their buyers' parents didn't drive them.
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Apr 16, 2012 19:25
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Well also minivans got super huge and fat, but yeah a lot of it is probably uncool parents syndrome. Minivans, when they first came out, offered a lot more space than an equivalent station wagon since they were unibody fwd in an era where large, rwd BOF sedan derivatives were still common. The move from minivans to SUVs, though, can't be justified as anything other than style or image since most 90s SUVs were pretty awful at doing anything except maybe towing or off-roading. But then again, maybe it's also partly because most minivans, in addition to looking lame and fat, were pretty agonizingly boring to drive and handled miserably. I'd say hatches are distinct because most hatches are quite small cars. I wish the stigma from sliding rear doors would go away, though, because they really are useful and honestly when carmakers make cars that are exactly like minivans but without sliding rear doors, they're not fooling anyone. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 19:34
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One thing is that a lot of those CUVs count as light trucks which is a massive, massive advantage in CAFE regulations. Plus, the Mazda6 wagon and the Mazda6 hatch went over like lead balloons in a total wide open market place, and that was a pretty good car.
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Apr 16, 2012 19:35
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:One thing is that a lot of those CUVs count as light trucks which is a massive, massive advantage in CAFE regulations. Yeah I really can't argue with that. They were pretty great cars and nobody bought them. Though that's sort of true for the Mazda 6 in general (to a much lesser extent since the 6 still sold). But the Legacy Wagon sold alright, right? Not as well as the Outback, but overall pretty respectably. Considering that by 4th gen days, the body cladding was toned down to almost nothing, the differences between the Outback and the Legacy were pretty much semi-invisible. It's possible the outback outsold the legacy wagon due to pricing and name recognition, and not because people wanted the extra inch of ride height and body-colored cladding (which I believe sold better than the two-tone stuff by then). I don't understand Subaru's logic when CUV-ifying the outback. They already have a perfectly fine CUV in the forester. Why fatten up the legacy, too? Also, do CUVs still count as light trucks? Didn't know that.
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Apr 16, 2012 19:41
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Cream_Filling posted:I don't understand Subaru's logic when CUV-ifying the outback. They already have a perfectly fine CUV in the forester. Why fatten up the legacy, too? Broader market appeal would be my guess. At least you can still get a 6-speed manual with the Legacy. 
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Apr 16, 2012 19:56
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oRenj9 posted:Broader market appeal would be my guess. At least you can still get a 6-speed manual with the Legacy. Looking again, I've realized that they didn't really specifically fatten the Outback. They just fattened the Legacy sedan on which it's based. Seriously, it's like someone stuck the design in photoshop and hit "scale 125%" on vertical only. Horrible. Also now, as in many other models, you can only get that manual on the base trim engine and nowhere else. Otherwise it's CVTs for all unless you get the flat-6, which only comes with the old 5-AT.
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Apr 16, 2012 20:05
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In positive news, the new Ford Astonish-look Focus looks pretty rad: I preferred the big lower air intake, little tiny upper grille look of the kinetic design language, but this is still way better than the catfish fang things of the current NA Focus. Also, how long as this US page for the Focus ST been up? http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/focusst/ OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 20:12
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Outback was specifically designed to be a truck under CAFE.
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Apr 16, 2012 20:15
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Cream_Filling posted:In positive news, the new Ford Astonish-look Focus looks pretty rad: Worth noting that this is the EV Focus. They just redesigned the normal Focus last year and that isn't changing as far we know, right? That Focus ST page has been up at least a few months. I'm on ford's website all the time hoping they'll update the 2013 Fusion page.
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Apr 16, 2012 20:18
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Anybody know when the 2013 Fiesta will go on sale? I see a bunch of pictures of the '13 Fiesta ST and it has a substantially different interior than the '12, but I can't find anything for the lower trim models.
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Apr 16, 2012 21:36
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Oh, crosspostin' this from the rally thread. I'm not involved in any way, but it looks cool and so I put up a little money: New Kickstarter film project about rally by a motorsports filmmaker who does the video coverage for Rally America. Looks pretty cool: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rallymatt/easier-said-than-done http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LPp974KJJk quote:I started this film following a couple of characters. Chris Duplessis - one of the fastest young North American drivers, and Ken Block - a man who needs no introduction. Two different people with very different stories, but with surprisingly similar challenges. At first that was it, but now I've started to branch out to other drivers, including more top talent from the World Rally Championship, as well as other international amateurs. The goal of this film is to show the personal challenges and stories of each driver as they each try their hardest to compete in such a challenging sport. As well as showcase both the front, and behind the scenes action that makes the motorsport world turn.
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Apr 16, 2012 21:43
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davebo posted:Worth noting that this is the EV Focus. They just redesigned the normal Focus last year and that isn't changing as far we know, right? That Focus ST page has been up at least a few months. I'm on ford's website all the time hoping they'll update the 2013 Fusion page. Yeah, but I bet that when refresh time comes, the Focus will look more or less exactly like this so that it matches the Fusion.
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Apr 16, 2012 21:47
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CornHolio posted:Anybody know when the 2013 Fiesta will go on sale? I see a bunch of pictures of the '13 Fiesta ST and it has a substantially different interior than the '12, but I can't find anything for the lower trim models. Production on the '13 Fiesta begins in June 4th with deliveries occurring the following month. No idea on the specifics on the ST trim since performance trims usually take longer to start production.
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Apr 16, 2012 21:50
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Can someone explain to me why the Quattraporte is tanking its value? Seems like for 50 grand you can get a decent example. Compared to buying a Merc or a BMW this seams like an easy choice besides running costs. http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2043143.m570.l1313&_nkw=maserati+quattroporte&_sacat= Preoptopus fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 22:24
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Cream_Filling posted:Well yeah because that's all that's on the market. People will buy what's available from the major brands. The only wagons left are Subaru (which are slowly morphing into CUVs), maybe the Toyota Venza, and then Cadillac and Audi, which are way expensive. Also Acura, BMW, and VW
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Apr 16, 2012 22:36
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Preoptopus posted:Can someone explain to me why the Quattraporte is tanking its value? This is why: Preoptopus posted:besides running costs. Niche brand requires expensive niche parts, expensive specialty knowledge/tools, and frequent expensive service with expensive labor at expensive niche shops. Did I mention it is expensive?
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Apr 16, 2012 22:45
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Guinness posted:This is why: Add in the fact that cars in this segment are turned over fairly regularly by their owners (and not replaced with used ones, either), and you'll understand why nearly all high-end luxury cars depreciate like mad.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:52
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Cream_Filling posted:Also now, as in many other models, you can only get that manual on the base trim engine and nowhere else. Otherwise it's CVTs for all unless you get the flat-6, which only comes with the old 5-AT. Actually, the turbo engine option only comes with the 6 speed manual.
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Apr 16, 2012 23:39
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oRenj9 posted:Actually, the turbo engine option only comes with the 6 speed manual. What turbo engine option? We're talking about the Legacy.
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Apr 16, 2012 23:53
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Steve French posted:Also Acura, BMW, and VW Ah right, forgot. Although I've yet to see a TSX wagon anywhere. The Jetta wagons seem to be relatively popular, sort of. They look pretty cool in metallic brown, too. I'd put Acura and BMW with the other expensive options, though, since even the TSX wagon starts at $32k base (which is loving insane for a 4 cylinder accord). OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 01:20
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Cream_Filling posted:What turbo engine option? We're talking about the Legacy. http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/legacy/static/compare.html The Legacy GT still has the 2.5 turbo option. Edit: vvv Well, that sucks. oRenj9 fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 01:29
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oRenj9 posted:http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/legacy/static/compare.html It's gone for 2013.
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Apr 17, 2012 01:37
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Steve French posted:Also Acura, BMW, and VW Volvo still makes wagons in the states, right? Maybe if we're lucky, Ford will make the Taurus SHO wagon that they never brought to production last time.
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Apr 17, 2012 03:31
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Sir Tonk posted:Volvo still makes wagons in the states, right? You mean this one? 
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Apr 17, 2012 03:41
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Is there or has there ever been a wagon appreciation thread?
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Apr 17, 2012 05:26
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DropShadow posted:Is there or has there ever been a wagon appreciation thread? It would last 5 pages.
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Apr 17, 2012 05:45
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Powershift posted:You mean this one? I've always like the Flex. It's just such a drat weird box. The new face makes me like it even more. 
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Apr 17, 2012 06:00
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Man the refreshed Flex looks pimp. Ford is making some drat nice looking cars now. If only the Focus didn't have that awful lower gaping maw.
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Apr 17, 2012 06:07
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BabyMauler posted:Man the refreshed Flex looks pimp. Ford is making some drat nice looking cars now. If only the Focus didn't have that awful lower gaping maw. Give it 2-3 years until it looks like that Focus Electric concept. Or buy an ST, it'll probably have a unique front end. The Flex is a pretty cool minivan replacement, but you never see any around. The marketing could definitely do more to point out it's a cooler minivan.
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Apr 17, 2012 06:31
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Oh yea, and the best thing about the ecoboost Flex is it takes to pretty much all of the performance bits the SHO does. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2965reullw0 Now that's a cool minivan.  More videos. Mental Hospitality fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 08:01
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Cream_Filling posted:Ah right, forgot. Although I've yet to see a TSX wagon anywhere. The Jetta wagons seem to be relatively popular, sort of. They look pretty cool in metallic brown, too. I'd put Acura and BMW with the other expensive options, though, since even the TSX wagon starts at $32k base (which is loving insane for a 4 cylinder accord). Throatwarbler posted:Getting back to new cars we like. Honda has finally fixed the Accord Crosstour's lack of unpainted plastic body cladding. Also Acura ZDX. Read about a new Honda? Post it here and everyone can somehow both hate it and then completely forget it exists 1 page later.  quote:Can someone explain to me why the Quattraporte is tanking its value? Because luxury car buyers are dumb and don't know what cars are worth. A savvy AI poster/car shopper like yourself should hurry up and snatch that hidden gem right up.  Seriously the residual on the Maser actually looks pretty decent compared to others in its class, considering that MSRP new was what, $125k?. An MB S600 of the same age sells for about that much and they're like $160k new. The thing about resale values that people forget about is that you never really know what the cars actually transacted for new. People always thought that those lovely FWD domestic sedans had "bad resale value" when what was actually happening was that they were so obviously poo poo right out of the box, and GM was always too broke/stupid to keep them updated and competetive, that they could never get anyone to buy them without slapping on huge discounts at the dealer. The actual rate of depreciation was never really all that different between a Chevy Lumina or whatever and a Honda Accord, if you compared transaction prices, GM's MSRP was just wildly optimistic. Big luxury cars always have decent incentives on them, plus the fact that the Quattroporte is old as gently caress and hasn't been significantly changed since forever means that its unlikely that they transacted for anywhere near MSRP.
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Apr 17, 2012 12:16
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Cream_Filling posted:Ah right, forgot. Although I've yet to see a TSX wagon anywhere. The Jetta wagons seem to be relatively popular, sort of. They look pretty cool in metallic brown, too. I'd put Acura and BMW with the other expensive options, though, since even the TSX wagon starts at $32k base (which is loving insane for a 4 cylinder accord). VW does about 2,000-2,500/mo of the Jetta SportWagen and that may be at present the best selling traditional wagon in the United States.
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Apr 17, 2012 12:32
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SouthLAnd posted:Oh yea, and the best thing about the ecoboost Flex is it takes to pretty much all of the performance bits the SHO does. Hell of a reaction time from whoever is car #202 on that slip.
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Apr 17, 2012 13:47
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SouthLAnd posted:I've always like the Flex. It's just such a drat weird box. The new face makes me like it even more. I actually like this look. I wish I would see more Flexes on the road, but it seems like most people either fall back on the Taurus because they don't need the extra room or don't like the look, or jump up to an Edge because they want an SUV and the Flex is too small.
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Apr 17, 2012 16:28
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SouthLAnd posted:I've always like the Flex. It's just such a drat weird box. The new face makes me like it even more. That's really nice looking and I've always had a soft spit for the flex but the "FLEX" lettering on the front needs to go.
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