Invalid Octopus posted:

Thanks. I imagine that as long as you have more appealing things for them to chew in the cage they won't bother, and the plastic that sticks into the cage is relatively sturdy.

edit:


I just googled a little bit and it seems like you could get sticky-backed vinyl squares for not very much money – Amazon seems to have a pretty big selection. You could also try doing fleece covers for them, but they might dig under (if they're placed on top), or through (if they're wrapped around like a pillowcase).

nunsexmonkrock posted:

Oh, fleece sounds like it would be comfy for them but I wouldn't trust mine with it. They love to chew on anything that is not their chew toys. Even though they love sleeping in their hammocks, we have to make them a new one near weekly because they tear it to shreds. Doesn't matter how many chew toys we put in.

"Sticky vinyl" works much better as a search term. Thank you, whenever I tried to search for it on amazon, I would come up with results to cover an entire kitchen with the stuff, I don't need that much.

Edit: The most luck I've had with them chewing what I want them to is my homemade rope ladder, made with, well rope, and store bought flavored sticks.

Invalid Octopus posted:

Are you against all plastic in the cage?

Invalid Octopus posted:

Hahaha, yeah, a bone would probably look a bit more appealing. As far as I know, rawhide is fine for rats (and definitely better than whatever else they'd be chewing). The snak shak house I have is maybe 12ish inches at the base, and easily sleeps all four rats. The big log I have is probably 9 inches long, 5 inches tall.


edit:
Petsmart carries the big one, 13" base.

edit 2:
Also the larger log.

nunsexmonkrock posted:

For the snak shak, I thought you were talking about this
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753529&clickid=prod_cs
I'll have to look into the one that you linked

Lord Windy posted:

I just got two rats, Hailey and Bailey.

I've just put them in their new cage, but they're kinda just staying in the corner of it at the moment. I've done some forced socialization, and all they did was poop a lot and when I offered them some treats at the end they didn't want anything.

I don't think they've ever been given anything other than blocks their whole life. I only got them to eat yoghurt because I put some drops on their back in an effort to make it a treat later on.

Will they work out what's food themselves? I'm going down Super's path and going to give them lots of fresh fruit and vegetables and whole grains. I've put banana, watermelon, oats and chocolate in the cage and they haven't touched anything

EDIT: Looks like they ate the Banana, but I don't think they know what to do with the rest of the food. Bailey decided she was queen of the watermelon and has taken to standing on it

Lord Windy posted:

Bailey decided she was queen of the watermelon and has taken to standing on it

daggerdragon posted:

You put a whole watermelon in the cage?!

Lord Windy posted:

LOL no

It was a slice, I could see they ate some of it when I removed it this morning, so that's a plus

daggerdragon posted:

I was going to demand pics of whole watermelon in rat cage. :<

Big Bug Hug posted:

kitty-go-meow posted:

One of our older girls is a tumor machine and we've decided to just monitor her quality of life since the vet agreed that she's a bit old for surgery (2 years and some change). She's still doing fine hopping, getting around the cage, and hoarding food, but we've noticed that she's started licking and scratching one of her tumors enough that there's a little raw spot on it. We trimmed her back nails but she still licks. Is there any way of keeping her from doing this or is it just one of those things that happens with rats?

kitty-go-meow posted:

licking and scratching one of her tumors

Lord Windy posted:

I'm taking Bailey to the vet on Friday, she suddenly become very lethargic and sounds like she's having trouble breathing.

She used to be the one doing weird things, like re-arranging her entire bedroom and looking to escape. Now she just sits in the corner all day and only really gets active when I'm trying to sleep. Poor Hailey as well has taken to moving food to Bailey as well.

RazorBunny posted:

Don't tell my husband, but I've pretty much decided that once we're done with Husker's cancer treatments and our savings account has recovered a bit, I am getting more rats.

I want to get one of the Critter Nation cages, probably the smaller one but maaaaayyybe the two-story model, and three or four males.

It's certainly not done and dusted, but I've been going back and forth with myself for so long, and I think I've finally decided that I want to get back into rats.

So, yay!

It does occur to me that after spending a shitload of money on a pet with cancer, I'd be setting myself up to potentially spend a shitload of money on even more pets with cancer

Jin Wicked posted:

I have the double Critter Nation, and keep three to six rats. I absolutely love it.

The footprint is exactly the same. The extra vertical space it takes up would be wasted anyway.

For problem rats and injuries, the ability to divide it into two cages is very convenient.

Toyotadon posted:

I love catching my girls snuggling. They're such good buddies!

Lately Charlie (on the left) has been chasing Edith (on the right) around and trying to mount her. Has anyone else noticed this kind of behavior with girls? My boyfriend got them from an acquaintance-of-an-aquaintance with whom we don't really have contact, so we're not sure if they're spayed or not.

daggerdragon posted:

They're probably not spayed. Females humping is a dominance display. Leave them be unless they're drawing blood or freaking out the "submissive" rat.

Superconsndar posted:

It can be a dominance display, but more often they do it when they're in heat because girl rats are sluts

superconsndar posted:

Well awesome then, I'll go ahead and post it.


Like I said, a whole food diet is really just an attempt at a more natural diet for rats. I personally don't like to feed my dogs kibble if I can avoid it, and blocks, if you think about it, are basically kibble- compressed cubes of grains and vitamins- and while there are high quality blocks out there, in my opinion, blocks are just not an ideal diet for a rat even if all of their nutritional needs are technically met by them.

So, about 2 years ago, I started playing with different ideas for a more natural diet for them. It took a little over a year to get it the way I wanted, but eventually I figured out a balance that worked well.

First, Grains:

Initially, I relied on a grain mix as a staple. But, since the idea was to completely phase out any processed foods, I eventually dropped the use of a grain mix and just went to straight whole grains. Still, for those who want to use it (it does save some time) this is the mix I used for a while, and the one I had the best results with:

1 Box (10 oz.) Uncle Sam Toasted Whole Wheat Flakes and Flaxseed Cereal
9 oz. Total Cereal
1 Box (7.5 oz.) Kashi 7 Whole Grain Puffs Cereal
6 oz. Roasted Unsalted Soynuts
6 oz. Puffed Brown Rice Cereal
6 oz. Puffed Red Wheat Cereal
1/2 Box (7 oz.) Kashi Go Lean High Protein/High Fiber Cereal
6 oz. Whole Wheat Pasta
6 oz. Vegetable Pasta
14 oz. Brown Rice
6 oz. Kashi Heart to Heart Cereal
21 oz. Dry Oatmeal

Personally, I would reccomend not using the mix just because it defeats the purpose of not feeding any processed foods. I included it anyway because I've noticed that a lot of people freak out at the idea of of not having some kind of staple to rely on, and people seem to be more willing to try this diet if they can use a mix. The best way to do it though is to just feed whole grains. Every day, give your rats one of the following:

Oatmeal
Rice
Whole Wheat
Barley
Quinoa
Millet
Amaranth
Spelt
Bulgar Wheat
Buckwheat
Cornmeal
Wheat Germ
Farro
Flaxseed
Kamut
Rye
Sorghum
Triticale

Basically, any grain is fine, as long as you rotate them. The key to this entire diet is variety. The grains can be cooked or uncooked, it's up to you. In the morning, give your rats their grain for the day. Give them enough to keep their bowl filled, so that they are able to eat it free choice all day. The next morning, remove uneaten portions of the previous day's grain and give them a different type of grain. You can rotate types of grain weekly, daily, or pick 2 or 3 to rotate throughout the week, however you want to do it- just as long as they're getting at least 3 different types of grain a week. If you're using the mix, don't worry about this and just keep their bowl filled with it 24/7.

-----------------
Fresh Foods Breakdown

In addition to grain, your rats will need fresh food daily. The fresh food can either be broken up into smaller meals throughout the day, or given as one big meal in the evening.

First, choose at least 3 of the following vegetables, and give them a different combination daily. You must vary the vegetables that you give them to ensure proper nutrition. If you don't they will probably miss out on something major. Just giving them iceburg lettuce and apples or something and calling it a day won't work.

You will then choose two of the following fruits to be given daily, and an animal protein to be given 3 times a week.


Green Leafy Vegetables (Choose one daily)

Arugula
Chicory
Collard Greens
Dandelion Greens
Kale
Mustard Greens
Swiss Chard
Bok Choy
Broccoli
Parsley
Romaine Lettuce
Watercress
Brussel Sprouts (cooked)
Asparagus


Always make sure they get at least one green leafy vegetable a day. The other vegetables can be rotated.

Orange vegetables:

Acorn Squash
Butternut Squash
Carrots
Pumpkin
Sweet Potato (use often, and ALWAYS cook thoroughly!)

Dry Beans (always cook thoroughly)

Black Beans
Black Eyed Peas
Chickpeas
Lentils
Lima Beans
Soy Beans
Split Peas
Tofu
White Beans

Starchy Vegetables

Corn (high in fat, use sparingly)
Green Peas
Potatoes (Never raw)

Other Vegetables

Green/Red Peppers
Cauliflower
Celery
Cucumber
Green Beans
Tomatoes
Zucchini


Fruits: Choose at least 2 daily.

Apples (No seeds/Cores)
Bananas (Ripe, not green)
Apricots
Purple Grapes (Not green. Purple grapes contain cancer preventing agents.)
Mango
Cantaloupe
Honeydew
Watermelon
Peaches (no pits)
Pears
Papaya
Pineapple
Plums
Prunes
Raisins


Berries: High in antoxidants, use often!
Strawberries
BlackBerries
Raspberries
Blueberries

--------------------------------------------
Animal Protein: Choose one, 3 times a week

Rats are omnivores, and some animal protein is beneficial in their diet. You will only need to give them meat three times a week, about 1-2 tablespoons per rat. ALWAYS use lean, human quality meat for your rats. Whether you cook it or not is up to you, but raw is probably better.


Eggs: scrambled, raw, or boiled. I prefer to give them boiled, in the shell. They will eat the shell too, providing a good source of calcium.

Any kind of lean meat is safe for your rats. Mine love chicken the most, especially carcasses with bones to gnaw.

Fish is good too. Fresh or frozen is best, but canned salmon or mackeral will do in a pinch. Feeder minnows and goldfish are fun as a treat. Again, raw is best, but cooked is fine.

Organ Meats such as liver are high in iron and are good for mothers or injured rats, and they're just really good and nutritious in general. Still, they're really rich so use them sparingly. I usually get some kind of organ meat, usually chicken hearts and beef liver, freeze it, and use it as a meat source once a week.

Insects/worms are fun and can count as a serving of animal protein. Crickets, waxworms, mealworms, superworms, earthworms, whatever your pet store carries. Crickets are especially fun- release several of them in a closed container with your rats and they'll have tons of fun trying to catch them all. Obviously, DON'T feed them wild caught insects. They carry parasites and may have come into contact with pesticides and are just not safe in general.

------------------------------------
Miscellaneous/Supplements

These are foods or supplements that are beneficial or that your rats will enjoy that don’t need to make up a significant part of their diet. These can be used as treats, or to encourage old, very young, or sick rats to eat.

Yogurt: This is good for rats with upset stomaches. Antibiotics will often cause diarrhea in rats, so yogurt is good to give rats with runny poops. The acidophilus/beneficial bacteria found in yogurt helps their digestive systems to settle. When first switching them to a whole food diet, you'll probably want to feed yogurt to help them adjust to the changes in diet.

Baby Foods: Good for mixing meds or for old/weak/young rats.

Baby Cereal: Packed with vitamins. Mix with soy milk, Ensure, Pedialyte, goats milk, or formula. Can be used in place of a grain mix on occasion, but don't overdo it.

Ferretvite/Nutrical: High calorie vitamin supplement made for ferrets that can help put weight on ailing rats.

Seeds/Nuts: High in fat so shouldn’t make up a large part of the diet, but make good treats.

Baking Chips: A good alternative to "Yogies" and other yogurt drop type treats that are marketed at pets- those may additives such as Ethoxyquin, which is known to cause cancer, and many of them also contain added colors. Baking chips come in lots of flavors and can be found in most grocery/health food stores. All make very good treats.

Dark Chocolate: High in antoxidants and makes a very good treat for your rats. Chocolate does not carry the same risks with rats as it does with dogs. Dark chocolate can also be given during respiratory distress to quickly clear airways.


Table Scraps: Your rats can have table scraps from your meals. Just give them sparingly and don’t give them anything too fattening or unhealthy. Limit junk food. If you shouldn't be eating it, neither should your rats. Basically, use common sense and don't give them half of your Baconator and fries.



For putting weight on old/sick/young rats: Try a mixture of Ensure, Baby Cereal, Ferretvite, and KMR (Kitten milk replacement.) Most rats love it and will take it willingly even if they're sick as hell. It should NOT be a part of their regular diet, as it is extremely high in calories and very fattening. Use only in emergencies.

Flax Seed can be given as a grain. It's a major source of omega 3, so if you don't feed fish on a regular basis, make sure they get flax. I would make sure they get one or the other at least once a week, and more is always better. Omega 3's are awesome and most rats AND humans don't get enough of them. They make big strong brains, and shiny coats.

------------------------------
Sample Menu
This is meant to serve as an example of a weekly menu for your rats. Your plan does not have to follow this exactly, and it SHOULD change from week to week. This is JUST to give you an idea of what your menu should look something like.




(Pretend the "Grain mix" says "Grain mix/whole grain")

--------------------------------

So, that's it. It's definitely more work than feeding blocks, but it's really not that hard once you get into the routine. I usually cut up and freeze all of the fruits/vegetables for the week. If you can just take an hour a week or so to measure out portions of everything and refrigerate/freeze it, it makes things a lot easier and you don't even really have to think about it.

Also: lots of fruits and veggies won't, in my experience, cause diarrhea- but this diet WILL make their poops a little softer in general, so don't freak out if that happens, especially at first while they're adjusting to it.

Invalid Octopus posted:

Invalid Octopus posted:

I've been so incredibly busy studying for finals lately (mostly organic chemistry, kill me now) that one of the things I have been most looking forward to is going to the market, stocking up on grains, and making an awesome mix for the rats this weekend. And I have a whole bunch of things to get them from Flowertown. Little bastards don't deserve any of it

Lord Windy posted:

I used this diet for my rats. They've fallen in love with Flax Seed. I've never seen them attack a food so readily.

I also took them to the vet today, the vet I saw was really nice and she knows alot about rats. Good thing they're cheap as well. The antibiotics I got for them was only 20 dollars for a 6 week course and 45 for the consult for the two of them. Sadly she doesn't do spay's so it's looking like 375 per rat plus a 150 dollar consultation for the two if I want it done at the exotics hospital


Ohhh, what sort of grains do you use?