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rio posted:
 Nice lens though, definitely an awesome price/performance ratio.
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Apr 18, 2012 08:46
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Random Task posted:Just wanna remind people that cameras are not sensors and sensors are not cameras. Sony has a fantastic sensor, but I had a NEX and it was -- IMO -- a TERRIBLE camera. People get caught up in the numbers and forget that the best sensor in the world is worthless if the camera is unpleasant or inconvenient. I'm curious which NEX you used and what your specific complaints are with it. I ended up going with the 7 over the 5N after playing with them due to the UI and built-in viewfinder. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert by any means, but so far I've been pretty pleased with it. rio posted:I got my Sigma 30mm E-mount yesterday. Thought I would give some impressions of it now that I've had it for a short while, in case anyone else is looking at one. I've been looking at picking up this lens to use as my walk around lens as well. Do you have any full images or 100% crops of the corners you can share? How much slower is the AF than the kit lens? Does it feel just a little slower or is it pretty noticeable?
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Apr 18, 2012 17:15
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I'm very excited for any impressions of the sigma 30 or 19 on MFT. Have they announced ship dates yet?
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Apr 18, 2012 18:37
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Aredna posted:I'm curious which NEX you used and what your specific complaints are with it. I ended up going with the 7 over the 5N after playing with them due to the UI and built-in viewfinder. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert by any means, but so far I've been pretty pleased with it. I have to say that I've picked them up in the shop a few times and there was no magic there. It just felt odd - badly balanced, unintuitive buttons and confusing menus. I certainly felt a disconnect between what I was feeling and the reviews that uses here give it. Maybe it grows on you?
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Apr 18, 2012 18:49
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spog posted:I have to say that I've picked them up in the shop a few times and there was no magic there. It just felt odd - badly balanced, unintuitive buttons and confusing menus. I certainly felt a disconnect between what I was feeling and the reviews that uses here give it. I kind of dig it. There are a few things I don't like very much, but I can see that they tried to make it more accessible for those moving from a point and shoot. Overall, I would like more hardware control buttons like they did on the 7 ( I chose 5n because of the cost).
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Apr 18, 2012 18:55
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spog posted:I have to say that I've picked them up in the shop a few times and there was no magic there. It just felt odd - badly balanced, unintuitive buttons and confusing menus. I certainly felt a disconnect between what I was feeling and the reviews that uses here give it. The menu interface is a mess, and it doesn't really grow on you. But, I do know where everything is now after 5 months or so, and rarely have to go in there because of the custom button setup. And that loving movie record button...  I am really hoping for some software improvements for the current line in an update after the next NEX models are released, but not too hopeful about that. I have no issues with the balance - people complain that the body is too small, but that just makes you hold it more by the lens with really large lenses, or distribute the weight more onto your left hand. It was an adjustment, but once you get used to it it is not a disadvantage really. Aredna posted:I've been looking at picking up this lens to use as my walk around lens as well. Do you have any full images or 100% crops of the corners you can share? The AF just feels slower, like how the AF sometimes was before the last firmware update. It is accurate, but just takes a little longer to get there (which with my baby daughter has caused some miscalculated shots, as I was used to just a little bit faster AF). Would not rely on it for movies though, and will use the kit lens if I ever do shoot video. I had only a very short time to shoot so I didn't get too many 100%-ready shots, but here is one just so you can see the corners; if I have time later I'll properly crop out the corners so it is easier to see, but the full size photo is up on flickr. 1/100, f8.  more wisteria by cadence440, on Flickr
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Apr 18, 2012 19:12
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Shmoogy posted:I kind of dig it. There are a few things I don't like very much, but I can see that they tried to make it more accessible for those moving from a point and shoot. Overall, I would like more hardware control buttons like they did on the 7 ( I chose 5n because of the cost). At first I wasn't a huge fan of the NEX 5N ergonomics. I'm still not a huge fan, but I don't mind it. What I find is that the small size of the camera and lack of viewfinder encourages you to find different ways of holding it other than the conventional SLR-type of grip. The small size of the camera means that when I'm shooting portrait orientation, I can hold the camera sort of like a gun but with my middle finger on the shutter button. It's more comfortable to hold it this way. Sometimes I shoot from the waist with the screen flipped out and my thumb on the shutter button. I could see something like the C3 being crappy though with nothing to wrap your fingers around on the front. I also don't like the Sony menu system and the loving video record button being where it is (too easy to hit). I chose the 5N because of cost and because it's a much more innocent looking camera. I can walk right in to venues with "no professional cameras" policies because it looks like a P&S with the 16mm lens on it.
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Apr 18, 2012 19:17
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Startyde posted:I'm very excited for any impressions of the sigma 30 or 19 on MFT. Have they announced ship dates yet? These have been available for a while. I met a guy in NYC who works for B&H Photo and he had both of them along with his E-P2. I got to try them out on his camera and they seem nice. I didn't get to look at the end results of course but he seems really happy with both lenses. Personally, I would pay the extra for the Lumix 20mm over the Sigma 19mm. Faster and more compact, plus it's hard for me to imagine any lens would get better results on m43 than that pancake 20.
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Apr 18, 2012 20:48
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RustedChrome posted:These have been available for a while. I met a guy in NYC who works for B&H Photo and he had both of them along with his E-P2. I got to try them out on his camera and they seem nice. I didn't get to look at the end results of course but he seems really happy with both lenses. Ah, last I checked B&H they were listed as pre-order. That was during Passover though, so it probably just wasn't updated. I've got the 20mm, but am interested in the 30mm just for a change of pace.
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Apr 18, 2012 20:59
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Aredna posted:I'm curious which NEX you used and what your specific complaints are with it. I ended up going with the 7 over the 5N after playing with them due to the UI and built-in viewfinder. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert by any means, but so far I've been pretty pleased with it. I used the NEX -3 for a little while, with latest firmware. To what extent these comments apply to the rest of the line, I am not sure. I'll tell you what, though -- I did not mind the physical profile AT ALL. It fell into my hands beautifully. The lens size complaints, meh. The SEL 18-55 is a smidge SMALLER than the Panasonic 14-42. Sony seems to get a kick out of making as many of their lenses as possible to exactly the same physical size spec, which is a bizarre choice but whatever. I don't care about viewfinders. I think the soft buttons are a good idea and I didn't feel the need for extra dials like a NEX-7. In terms of physical design, the camera was great. The sensor, even the old 14.2, is great. The new models are better than that. I have no objections there either. No, my problem was when I went out and started shooting with the camera. * AF speed was just poor. Current gen MFT equipment puts most DSLRs to shame in single AF mode, and NEX felt just plain lazy after that. I don't like lazy AF systems. * No ability to set min or max for Auto ISO. * No program shift. Wtf? (Fixed in later models.) * Automatic pre-focusing as the camera is moved around, annoys me. * Auto bracket limited to 3x0.3 and 3x0.7 only, not very helpful. * Menu layout is scrambled. I mean honestly, do none of the designers take pictures? Common options to change while shooting are scattered all over. * Soft button customization isn't that useful. I felt like all the wrong custom options were available to assign and all the right ones are missing. * Turning peaking on and off, and switching focus modes, is a real headache. Peaking itself is cool, but going back and forth is not. * Lenses. I don't need to say more. (Sigma 30mm seems awfully promising though...) There was probably more, but it just added up to a camera experience that was poor *for me*. If Sony added a Q-Menu/SCP equivalent and fixed the poor AF to compete with MFT, then NEX would probably be back on the candidate list.
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Apr 18, 2012 22:38
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The 5N with the new firmware has pretty snappy AF. Still not current DSLR calibre, but pretty good in okay light. I'd say it's a little faster than my Rebel XTi.
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Apr 18, 2012 23:15
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I second Random Task, I was ready to buy nex5 with credit card in hand until I actually held it in my hands and I hated pretty much everything about it.
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Apr 19, 2012 19:54
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- The autofocus on the 5N with new firmware is pretty fast. Still needs improvement, but pretty fast. See this youtube video. - I tend not to use auto ISO, but its ability to be configured is a legit annoyance. (and on the NEX-7 it only goes up to 1600!) - Prefocusing is annoying but of no relevance I find, since it'll focus when I half-press anyway - Bracketing is absolute poo poo, admittedly. - I didn't find the menu layout any more confusing than my Rebel, esp. once I got the soft buttons & dials configured (NEX-7 here though, I have way more options) - I never thought about the desire to turn peaking on/off on the fly as I'm an AF guy, but yeah, it should be in an easier place. - The lens selection really is crap, yes.  I still love my NEX-7. Drawbacks are there, but the vast decrease in size and weight make up for it.
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Apr 19, 2012 20:04
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It was the vast decrease in size and weight that I hated the most actually. I want something smaller than a dslr but not p&s size and feel. X100 is perfect in this regard, they really nailed the size/weight ratio. I will probably love the x1pro but the price is putting me off
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Apr 19, 2012 20:09
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LiquidRain posted:- The autofocus on the 5N with new firmware is pretty fast. Still needs improvement, but pretty fast. See this youtube video. Auto ISO is good on the 5N because it goes to 3200. I use it all the time when I'm out and about. As a big fan of back button focus, I don't really like the pre-focusing either but I can see why they do it. The thing that bugs me about the menus is that they are so long that it takes forever to scroll from one item to another if they're far apart. They really should break it down into more sub-menus. Also, the sub-menus they have right now are annoying because for instance metering mode is under color and brightness instead of camera setup or whatever like you would normally expect. What I would absolutely love to see is a custom menu option like Canon does where you can build up a custom menu category with all your most frequently-used options on it so you don't have to hop back and forth. They sort of have something like this right now, but it only can do five things or something like that.
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Apr 19, 2012 20:17
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keyframe posted:X100 is perfect in this regard, they really nailed the size/weight ratio. I will probably love the x1pro but the price is putting me off The price is offputting, but if I could be certain that a new version wouldn't come out for 2-3 years (Like 5d2--> 5d3, or most other $2000 camera purchases) I would buy it. I bought the x100, and ended up selling it at a steep discount due to how quickly other available products are coming out. If it was $1000 or less, I would buy it and the 35mm today-- because I know (hope) the next iteration will finally fix the autofocus annoyances. But as it stands, I'm purchasing a product with lots of annoyances in a market that is moving so quickly, it's almost assured I'll want try out some other options. I know I have a different mindset than most consumers though-- I often sell my electronics and upgrade, essentially renting most things, while getting to enjoy the latest and greatest.
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Apr 19, 2012 20:18
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I had no idea the market/selection for m4/3 lenses was so large already. God drat.
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Apr 19, 2012 20:58
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HPL posted:Auto ISO is good on the 5N because it goes to 3200. I use it all the time when I'm out and about. As a big fan of back button focus, I don't really like the pre-focusing either but I can see why they do it. The thing that bugs me about the menus is that they are so long that it takes forever to scroll from one item to another if they're far apart. They really should break it down into more sub-menus. Also, the sub-menus they have right now are annoying because for instance metering mode is under color and brightness instead of camera setup or whatever like you would normally expect. What I would absolutely love to see is a custom menu option like Canon does where you can build up a custom menu category with all your most frequently-used options on it so you don't have to hop back and forth. They sort of have something like this right now, but it only can do five things or something like that.  I wanted to assign all focus settings to the front button but they don't let you assign Auto/Direct/Manual switching to the front, only the rear. Mega that I hope they fix later.It's the complete opposite of the single largest problem I had with my Rebel - lack of controls. I bought the NEX-7 largely in part of everything is 1 button away for me. I ran out of things to assign to buttons! - Focus area change (centre/spot/etc) near the shutter - Top dials are shutter/aperture/Ev depending on mode - Large rear dial changes ISO (all shooting parameters on dials! on a camera this small!) - Right directional soft button is flash exposure comp - Centre OK button is "my menu". (flash sync mode, other options) - Metering on the down directional button - Burst mode on the left direction Add the exposure and manual focus switch/lock doohickey and I'm in heaven. For its size the NEX-7 is insanely configurable and has tons of controls. No back-button focus, though. Also a shame about dem lenses. :/ I'd appreciate a back-button focus as well, sometimes the auto pre-focus winds up messing things up worse. LiquidRain fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 21:09
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DJExile posted:I had no idea the market/selection for m4/3 lenses was so large already. God drat. I still haven't seen a good fast/wide lens yet, which is really all that's holding me back. And the fact that I'd miss Magic Lantern firmware a lot. edit: before anyone chimes in, the M Zuiko 12mm looks nice, but isn't as wide as I'd like to go, and the price is a little steep. luchadornado fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 21:40
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Voigtlander 17/.95 should be out very soon.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:00
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Isn't that like a $1000 lens?
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Apr 19, 2012 22:05
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spankmeister posted:Isn't that like a $1000 lens? $1250, but f/.95!
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Apr 19, 2012 22:10
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eggsovereasy posted:$1250, but f/.95! Yeah I'd LOVE to have that but I can't afford a lens like that.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:11
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LiquidRain posted:On the 7, you can have "my menus" assigned to 2 (3 maybe?) soft keys in the back, and a further "my menu" assigned to the button right next to the shutter release. Each button has its own set you can define of 1 to 5 options. I ran out of functions to assign to the "my menus". My complaint with this system, though, is that the functions you can assign to the front near-the-shutter button "my menu" don't include all the ones you can assign to the rear soft button "my menu"s. Set the camera to MF and Center AF focusing. The little button on the AF/MF and AEL switch will be focus while disabling half-button shutter focusing.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:12
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Shmoogy posted:
That's exactly what I do as well.
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Apr 20, 2012 00:42
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Helicity posted:edit: before anyone chimes in, the M Zuiko 12mm looks nice, but isn't as wide as I'd like to go, and the price is a little steep. But if you're shooting an APS-C camera, there is literally no lens that is wider/faster than a 24mm-equivalent at f/2. There is no format out there that'll present many options that are both wider and faster than that lens. In most cases, the best you can hope for is a little bit faster with the same FOV. Granted, there isn't yet something like a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 for the m4/3 system, but I imagine the Panasonic 7-14 f/4 would suit most of your needs. Honestly, when it comes to wide angle support, especially with regards to primes, the m4/3 system kicks the poo poo out of the APS-C market, since the vast majority of the available lenses for the latter are still being built to match 35mm focal lengths.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:14
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moonduck posted:Granted, there isn't yet something like a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 for the m4/3 system... I adored that lens...
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Apr 20, 2012 03:37
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Finally remembered to shoot some jpgs on the OM-D over the last week (still no RAW support) so thought I'd throw some up here. Straight out of camera with zero adjustments. Thought I had some low light stuff showing high ISO but I guess those are still just in my raws sorry. 7mm f8 1/160 200 ISO. Full size  17mm f2.8 1/60 400 ISO. Full size  25mm f8 1/125 400 ISO. Full size Will try and put some video samples up soon too. When is the US release date for this drat camera? I want my RAW support.
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Apr 20, 2012 13:57
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Lon Lon Rabbit posted:Will try and put some video samples up soon too. When is the US release date for this drat camera? I want my RAW support. Wow that 17 is nice. I believe it's supposed to release in the states by the end of April, but I don't recall an exact date.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:31
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DJExile posted:Wow that 17 is nice. * The Olympus is nice  * The photographer matters more than the tool  As for the NEX-7, my primary objection is price. It seems legitimately nice on pretty much every front (except that pesky lens thing again), but $1350 body-only? Eh.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:58
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Random Task posted:No, it's not. The 17 is generally considered to be the single weakest lens offered for the system. Which goes to show two things:
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Apr 23, 2012 00:12
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HPL posted:plus you've got the upgraded sensor That's no bonus though. The NEX-7 sensor performs worse at high ISO and performs poorer with adapted wide angle lenses, all for the sake of megapixels that no one will ever use.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:24
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Yeah, I'm in the camp that would rather have the 5N sensor. Actually I'd rather have the 5N sensor cropped down to a 12 MP m4/3 model
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Apr 23, 2012 06:54
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Fun discovery tonight - took apart one of my wife's portable makeup kits tonight and taped the mirror under the kit flash for my NEX so that I can bounce it. Worked really well, much better than expected. Good enough that I will actually carry around my flash now and use it.
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Apr 23, 2012 07:54
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rio posted:Fun discovery tonight - took apart one of my wife's portable makeup kits tonight and taped the mirror under the kit flash for my NEX so that I can bounce it. Worked really well, much better than expected. Good enough that I will actually carry around my flash now and use it. I took some aluminum foil and wrapped it around an old plastic card (think credit card size) and attached it with a rubber band. Seems to work really well, yeah.
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Apr 23, 2012 14:59
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Random Task posted:Yeah, I'm in the camp that would rather have the 5N sensor. Actually I'd rather have the 5N sensor cropped down to a 12 MP m4/3 model That would be the best mirrorless camera ever. I have tiny, tiny amounts of hope of that happening since Sony is courting Olympus for access to Olympus' medical optics intellectual property. Maybe, just maybe Olympus will ask for the right to buy Sony sensors instead of just cash infusion.
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Apr 24, 2012 04:48
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I was shooting a show at ISO 12800, f/1.8, 1/60 on the weekend because it was so loving dark in there. gently caress anyone that says that you don't need good extreme high ISO performance. Now if only I could afford that Zeiss 24mm f/1.8.
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Apr 24, 2012 15:54
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So OMD is kicking the rear end of all other mirrorless cameras including fuji x1 pro in dynamic range: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/04/23/om-d-e-m5-greater-dynamic-range-than-the-x-pro-1-plus-1st-quick-snaps/
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Apr 24, 2012 16:06
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keyframe posted:So OMD is kicking the rear end of all other mirrorless cameras including fuji x1 pro in dynamic range: That DR test from techradar is pretty suspect. The NEX-7 measurements do not at all agree with the ones from DxO though they supposedly use the same hardware and software. But yeah, the E-M5 looks exceptional for a m4/3 cam. On a side note, I lost my mind and canceled the E-M5 order and bought an X100 instead. Realized I have two SLRs and a ton of lenses and was already looking at three expensive primes for the E-M5 when the whole idea was to pick up something smaller and more likely to be with me at all times than my current cameras. A body with 12-50, then a set of primes, and I have what I was trying to avoid in the first place.
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Apr 24, 2012 21:35
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I am definitely getting the OM-D but not before they fix the problems with the camera. Apparently it makes a constant loud fan sound when you turn it on. You can hear it clearly in the Steve Huff review. People also say the buttons feel really cheap but I will have to see that for myself.
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Apr 24, 2012 22:07
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