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Bobulus posted:I certainly wouldn't mind if Vriska and Tavros hung out on the sideline for a while, give the other groups time to do their own thing, but the fact that John still doesn't know Vriska is dead is basically bullet point one in the list of reasons why they'll eventually rejoin the main group, somehow. She'll arrive just after he finds out she dies. Or he'll have met her first. "Hey, seen Vriska?" "I'm sorry John... She's dead." "But... I just saw her five minutes ago!"
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Apr 20, 2012 08:04
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King of Solomon posted:I loving hope not. She apologized, they started talking it through. It would really poo poo on this conversation if he decided to call her out on it anyways later on. Okay yeah, you're right, and that's not really what I meant. More that if his feelings weren't genuine and he still had problems with her, then they'd get the chance to resolve them. Although, honestly, I think he just doesn't care about that anymore, and they've both moved on. At least I hope so. Also, I thought it was really sweet that she included him in her little rant, that they're both being toyed with and both deserve better, and added him to her little campaign of chaos. I dunno, I guess I'm just glad that after everything they're still friends. Hopefully now it will be a less horrifically broken friendship. I just liked this update, guys. It was a conversation I wanted for a long time and never thought I'd see.
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Apr 20, 2012 08:05
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I saw it less as Tavros straight up apologizing for getting murdered and more him recognizing that blindly picking a fight with Vriska (charging like a bull, you might say) when he really didn't understand the circumstances was a really dumb thing to do and being awkward about the admission. He did refuse to apologize to her for being crippled way back when, so I doubt he'd backpedal that much just from a silly mindmerge. He's confident enough to admit he made legitimate notfake mistakes, even if there's still some emotional growth to be done there. I mean it is Tavros, but I find it hard to believe he could man up enough to definitively say no to Vriska while also being a backwards wuss about his death.
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Apr 20, 2012 08:07
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CidGregor posted:In other news, Man vs Homestuck continues to harbor irrational hatred for Rose and Jade and it's passing beyond the point of being funny and streaking toward annoying. He likes Kanaya apparently? Although he doesn't know she's a girl yet and he's calling her a guy so we'll see how that plays out. Also, he has no idea what's going on. Seriously, for all his noise and dismissive smug, everything is just sailing over his head. And for posterity: MAN VERSUS HOEMSTUK posted:John wins points. He deserves better friends. I mean, okay, let’s think practically here: the jerks who put up a façade of aloofness but are “ooohhh oh so wounded and sweet and sentimental” deep down inside will be loving dicks do other people. It doesn’t matter what you think, it matters what you do.
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Apr 20, 2012 08:52
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I'd feel more annoyed with Man vs Homestuck, but he's fifteen. Do you remember being fifteen? The human brain is still at least forty percent goop at that stage.
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Apr 20, 2012 09:02
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YggiDee posted:I'd feel more annoyed with Man vs Homestuck, but he's fifteen. Do you remember being fifteen? The human brain is still at least forty percent goop at that stage.
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Apr 20, 2012 09:08
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FebrezeNinja posted:I wrote a program to extract the track art from the songs, since Zune can't decide on what it wants for the album cover. Those came out nice and square, so I tried making some avatars, if anyone's interested. I'll take this one if no one else does. I love Aradia  Any ideas for text?
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Apr 20, 2012 09:14
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Seoinin posted:I'd like to think even at age 15 I'd be able to cotton onto the fact that Spades Slick and Jack Noir are the same dude. Which MvH couldn't, incidentally. Maybe. But at 15 the fore-brain isn't completely developed, which deals with consequences. Stories that don't explicitly spell out what leads to what... which Homestuck doesn't... are difficult for teenagers. It's not their fault. (Because Slick and Noir act independently of one other, it's common for someone of that age to just assume they look similar)
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Apr 20, 2012 09:24
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I'll take this one if no one else does. I love Aradia Timebubbles keep on slippin into the future
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Apr 20, 2012 09:45
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I'll take this one if no one else does. I love Aradia Take some lyrics from the song! "When the time comes that you see the way destiny lies, it would be okay if you'd pretend to be surprised. " "I see in full clarity what was so muddy before. You see a thousand of me and this is what we're made for. " "Everything's in order, everything will come in time, just as long as I complete the tasks that are mine. " Edit: Wait a minute, why did you extract the track art when bandcamp has the art? (Ie http://f0.bcbits.com/z/38/50/385007926-1.jpg ) Jewel fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 09:50
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Mystic Mongol posted:Stories that don't explicitly spell out what leads to what... which Homestuck doesn't... are difficult for teenagers. It's not their fault. Being a kid and growing up is hard. It's hard and no one understands. Seriously, though, I think he's at that age where everything gets sorted into two mental boxes: Stuff you understand is "Obvious" and stuff you don't understand is "Stupid". So to him, Homestuck is largely stupid, but when he finally notices something he understands (closed time loops or data structures, for example), these things are 'obvious' and any time spent explaining them is just a waste of time.
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Apr 20, 2012 10:22
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I'll take this one if no one else does. I love Aradia i came back from the dead twice why is it so hard for y0u?
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Apr 20, 2012 11:22
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Jewel posted:Take some lyrics from the song! Christ, every one of the lyrics from that song clunk so hard you can almost feel it under your feet.
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Apr 20, 2012 11:34
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I'll take this one if no one else does. I love Aradia d0n't try t0 tell me 0therwise" or "im alive im smiling im s0 tired 0f being dead" With the correct colouring of course. (I prefer the first one) To be honest this is one of my four favorite songs in the whole album, despite the clunky lyrics. 
DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 11:50
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I think this one is sticking for a little while 
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Apr 20, 2012 12:14
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I ended up setting that picture as my CaM-A album cover, too.Jewel posted:Edit: Wait a minute, why did you extract the track art when bandcamp has the art? (Ie http://f0.bcbits.com/z/38/50/385007926-1.jpg ) Bored programming. Wanted to learn what ID3 was and this seemed like a good target goal. Also turns out they're bigger. Usually between 500x500 and 700x700.
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Apr 20, 2012 12:29
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FebrezeNinja posted:I ended up setting that picture as my CaM-A album cover, too. What'd you code it in? I'd like to see the source actually, I love fiddlin' with datatypes and need to do it much more (I've only really played with image formats sofar)~
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Apr 20, 2012 12:37
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Seoinin posted:I'd like to think even at age 15 I'd be able to cotton onto the fact that Spades Slick and Jack Noir are the same dude. Which MvH couldn't, incidentally. What, they're the same person? How did I not figure this out? I thought Jack and Slick were different versions of the same entity from different sessions. Now I just feel like an idiot. 
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Apr 20, 2012 13:42
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No, you had it more or less right - Jack Noir is a character in the game, and an instance of him exists in every session we've seen so far. Spades Slick is specifically Jack Noir from the A2 (Karkat et al.) session, as distinct from the B1 session's Jack Noir who became Bec Noir and the B2 session's Jack Noir who hasn't yet done very much apart from (seemingly fruitlessly) stabbing Jane's dreamself and generally coordinating the effort to assassinate the B2 players' dreamselves, with mixed success.
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Apr 20, 2012 13:46
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Jewel posted:What'd you code it in? I'd like to see the source actually, I love fiddlin' with datatypes and need to do it much more (I've only really played with image formats sofar)~ Sure, here. Java. It's executable, and the source is included. Runs on the command line, takes a list of mp3s and directories.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:08
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Mystic Mongol posted:Maybe. But at 15 the fore-brain isn't completely developed, which deals with consequences. Stories that don't explicitly spell out what leads to what... which Homestuck doesn't... are difficult for teenagers. It's not their fault. They're 15, they're not retarded. One of my friends started following Homestuck at 13 and had a better grasp of the plot and the implications of new updates than some of the people I've seen posting in this thread.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:27
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Kit Walker posted:They're 15, they're not retarded. One of my friends started following Homestuck at 13 and had a better grasp of the plot and the implications of new updates than some of the people I've seen posting in this thread. Right, the majority of Homestuck fans are actually pretty young, I think. The problem with this guy is that he's so dead-set on hating what he's reading that he's not really even paying attention to it, he's just looking for stuff to get angry and frustrated over -- even if he has to manufacture those things himself. That's just kind of silly and dickish. You don't gotta be 15 to be silly and dickish. But it helps, of course.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:36
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Tavros isn't apologizing to his murderer, he's forgiving her. That's a very Tavros thing to do, in the best possible way; Tavros has always had a hidden strength of character buried underneath his limp, loserly shell. His admission of responsibility speaks to that, both in that he is big-hearted enough not to hold his death against Vriska, and in that he admits that his attempt to be fake-confident and take Vriska on was beneath him--he is better than that, and knows it now.Oxxidation posted:Christ, every one of the lyrics from that song clunk so hard you can almost feel it under your feet. It works in context really really well, though. It is the "clunk" of clockwork that's just a bit out of whack; the lyrics all sound off in a wonderfully haunting way.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:46
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:What, they're the same person? How did I not figure this out? I thought Jack and Slick were different versions of the same entity from different sessions. Now I just feel like an idiot. Point still stands that he needs to drop the irrational Rose hatred. It's getting weird.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:47
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quote:iT WAS COOL BEING ALIVE AGAIN FOR A WHILE, aS A STRANGE UNSETTLING MUTANT, Vintage Tavros Someone needs to get a Tavrisprite avatar with this text, pronto.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:52
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Gabriel Pope posted:Tavros isn't apologizing to his murderer, he's forgiving her. That's a very Tavros thing to do, in the best possible way; Tavros has always had a hidden strength of character buried underneath his limp, loserly shell. His admission of responsibility speaks to that, both in that he is big-hearted enough not to hold his death against Vriska, and in that he admits that his attempt to be fake-confident and take Vriska on was beneath him--he is better than that, and knows it now. Haha no he doesn't. Forgiveness is just another way for him to avoid conflict, usually. The only real "strength of character" we've seen him display is adamantly refusing to join Vriska's escapades.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:23
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Captain Oblivious posted:Haha no he doesn't. Forgiveness is just another way for him to avoid conflict, usually. The only real "strength of character" we've seen him display is adamantly refusing to join Vriska's escapades.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:26
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Seoinin posted:Well thats what I mean. Anyway looking back at the post he made it looks like I misread what he was saying, so I pretty thoroughly clowned myself just now. OH, oh ok, I see what you mean now.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:36
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Captain Oblivious posted:Haha no he doesn't. Forgiveness is just another way for him to avoid conflict, usually. The only real "strength of character" we've seen him display is adamantly refusing to join Vriska's escapades. Well if we want to be like that most all perceived character growth can be sidelined. Aradia's not happy, she's just being fatalist about her mood. Vriska hasn't learned anything because she still thought Tavros would be mad at her. John hasn't had a breakdown ergo he's the same person he was when the comic started. There's arguments like this all the time about what's meant to be a sign of actual development and what's just a stepping stone along the way or a symptom of their problem. Back when Tavros died some people argued (as Tavros is now) that his surge of fake confidence and attempt to attack Vriska was a failure of his character to develop. Since he died, however, some people argued it was the successful culmination of his plot arc because he finally stood up to his tormentor, even if it was in a terrible and ineffective way. We couldn't tell what the narrative was really saying until now, because we had an incomplete picture to work with. Tavros isn't saying she had no choice but to murder him and it's all his fault, lousy worm that he is. Nor is he letting her take all the blame to avoid a confrontation. He's admitting he should've known what would happen if he tried to bum-rush Vriska, it was reckless and a misapplication of self-confidence. If he just wanted to avoid conflict he wouldn't have been so insistent about it when Vriska tried to claim responsibility, he'd have just folded again and let her apologize. Insisting that he had a hand in what happened because he forced the situation without thinking it through is strength of character, for Tavros. He's showing a capacity to forgive without hiding behind it. That's a good sign.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:49
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I don't know how people can dislike Rose so much, especially before Act 5, because all her conversations are hilarious. "A prong of flesh bereft a home / found solace twixt a cleft of foam" COME ON PEOPLE, poetic trolling (Dave of all people) like that is solid gold. Though regarding "Man" vs. Homestuck (the "vs." part alone is so egotistically flawed to begin with, though I think it's really just a "Man vs. Food" reference), the only thing I ask is... why? I mean, if some of this guy's friends begged him to do it and he's just complying and putting it on the internet where everyone else can to see it as well, that's one thing, but I get the impression that he's just seeking attention by being as "edgy" as possible by reading a popular story and showing everyone how cool he is by not liking it. So really, his blog is probably not worth looking at or discussing either way.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:51
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Dolash posted:John hasn't had a breakdown Excuse me sir but I believe you are forgetting the seminal turning point in John's development, by which I of course mean this page 
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Apr 20, 2012 16:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:Forgiveness is just another way for him to avoid conflict, usually. Setting aside the fact that avoiding conflict is frequently both morally superior and more difficult than succumbing to it, he is not avoiding conflict at all here. He's specifically contradicting Vriska, and doing an unusually good job of holding his own against her. When she starts calling him stupid he comes right back and calls her stupid too--he's literally never done anything like this before, and here he comes out with it like it's nothing. And it's key that for him it is nothing. He's not seriously trying to win a "no you're stupid" match, because that would be really petty and childish and more in line with his notion of fake confidence, he's just rolling with the jabs. New and improved Tavros sounds a lot like John that way, which is unsurprising when you consider that Vriska always used John as a new and improved Tavros to begin with. I'm inclined to think it's an argument that Tavros wins, too. It's pretty big of Vriska to claim full responsibility for killing Tavros in a fight he started, which strikes a huge contrast to how Vriska started out--back in Hivebent when she killed and maimed all her best friends that was just some stuff that happened, they were all "accidents." So this is a hell of a lot of progress for her, and yet her insistence that it was all her fault is still a very, very Vriska thing to do. She's trying, bless her, but even when she's willing to fess up to her screwups she still can't stand the idea that something isn't All About Vriska (which is, of course, what the rest of the conversation is about.)
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Apr 20, 2012 16:04
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The gears were spinning in my head when Vriska mentioned the orange guy in the first page. I briefly wracked my brain to think of who she was referring to (Dirk? Davesprite?). When I turned the page and found out it was Hussie I burst out laughing. I'm pretty excited for this act. It's looking like the focus is moving away from just the B2 kids and may be visiting more of the characters more frequently.
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Apr 20, 2012 16:17
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loquacius posted:Excuse me sir but I believe you are forgetting the seminal turning point in John's development, by which I of course mean this page No way man, THIS is clearly the most significant aspect of John's character arc. Nothing else has come close. Look at his face and tell me that's not the face of someone who knows what it is to become your own god... even before he ACTUALLY did!
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Apr 20, 2012 16:21
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Gabriel Pope posted:She's trying, bless her, but even when she's willing to fess up to her screwups she still can't stand the idea that something isn't All About Vriska (which is, of course, what the rest of the conversation is about.) On the other hand, maybe its meant to be a sign Vriska should move on with things and accept fate. That she has to take defeat and relinquish her belief that she's at the center of everything. On the third hand, telling Vriska Serket to settle the hell down and just disappear always came off like trying to make water run uphill to me. That's really the biggest reason the coda with beta John didn't really jive well at a glance.
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Apr 20, 2012 16:24
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Reading this update, I think by the end of the story, Vriska and Tavros are going to be moirails. Think about it. Too much hosed up stuff has happened for anything more, and just enough hosed up stuff has happened for Tavros to always have a trump card when he needs it. Plus seriously, who the gently caress else among the trolls wants to moderate Vriska?
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Apr 20, 2012 16:34
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Did anyone else read this section as a bunch of different forms of ironic speech? Tavros sarcastically reminding Vriska that he knows what fake self-confidence feels like and felt it in her, and Vriska tacitly acknowledging that it was always an act even as she maintains the bravado. VRISKA: Oh, sure. That's easy for you to say. VRISKA: You weren't the one getting the short end of the shared personality stick! VRISKA: May8e if your personality was as much an upgrade to mine as mine was to yours, I would have 8een cool with it too. TAVROS: yOU MIGHT BE RIGHT, TAVROS: aCTUALLY IT WAS PRETTY NEAT, VRISKA: What? TAVROS: gETTING TO FEEL ALL THE AMAZING SELF ESTEEM YOU GET TO FEEL, TAVROS: i DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT IT FELT LIKE, i MOSTLY ONLY KNEW WHAT THE PRETEND KIND WAS LIKE, TAVROS: sO, TAVROS: tHANK YOU FOR LETTING ME FEEL THAT, i GUESS, VRISKA: Hahahaha. You're welcome! VRISKA: Now that you mention it, may8e there was a silver lining to that freak show. VRISKA: Someone else finally got a chance to feel first hand how gr8 it is 8eing me! TAVROS: yEAH, TAVROS: iT MUST BE PRETTY GREAT OVERALL,
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Apr 20, 2012 16:41
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I did not get a sarcastic vibe from Tavros at all.
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Apr 20, 2012 16:42
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I think we are all overlooking a MAJOR plot development here: Where did Vriska's glasses go?
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Apr 20, 2012 16:43
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Bobulus posted:I did not get a sarcastic vibe from Tavros at all. Me neither. It is, however, somewhat ironic, since we know Vriska's self-esteem is actually kind of a patchwork that she uses to cover up her deeper insecurities (what she talked to John about). Surprised that Tavros didn't pick up on any of that when they were fused. But then again, it was quick and who knows what the mechanics are for that.
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Apr 20, 2012 16:47
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