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Green Crayons posted:I love Con Law. It's fascinating. Sounds like some people have had really bad Con Law professors. Condolences. Were your Con Law classes only about the 14th Amendment or something? I find it hard to believe that a 1L has a strong policy commitment to the Dormant Commerce Clause, or the Tax and Spending Clause, or something similar. Our prof really liked covering hot button stuff (speech, guns, detention, etc.). Fed Courts owns bones, I learned it in a very civ pro heavy way and loved it.
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Apr 21, 2012 03:31
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The one thing I can say about my con law class is I started law school kind of conservative (const interp-wise, not socially/politically), but then I read a quote in my con law textbook from then-Justice T Marshall where he was like "people say I'm not true to the const, but its hard to be true to the original intent of a document that explicitly endorsed slavery, slave trade, death penalty, and non-universal suffrage" and I was like "whelp,  "
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Apr 21, 2012 03:42
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Ugh posting children's cartoons in this thread should be probate worthy. Also cwapface I just remembered your contributions to the recent science / religion thread where I brought up a standard of ethics based on human well being. Based on your responses in that thread, I can confidently predict that you may or may not like law school but you will hate with a passion the actual practice of law.
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Apr 21, 2012 03:44
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Green Crayons posted:I can generally find something from the Marbury era and stick in as an addcite. Did it twice re: Marbury in particular my last citecheck. Holy poo poo. Kill yourself now.
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Apr 21, 2012 03:52
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entris posted:Also cwapface I just remembered your contributions to the recent science / religion thread where I brought up a standard of ethics based on human well being. Based on your responses in that thread, I can confidently predict that you may or may not like law school but you will hate with a passion the actual practice of law. edit: I assumed I knew what thread you were talking about ("What is 'good'?" in D&D), but I can't find your posts in it. Were you using a different account or have you had a name change in the last couple of months? If not, I don't know what thread you mean. Smudgie Buggler fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 04:08
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tau posted:Holy poo poo. Kill yourself now.
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Apr 21, 2012 04:16
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Green Crayons posted:I love Con Law. It's fascinating. Sounds like some people have had really bad Con Law professors. Condolences. Were your Con Law classes only about the 14th Amendment or something? I find it hard to believe that a 1L has a strong policy commitment to the Dormant Commerce Clause, or the Tax and Spending Clause, or something similar. April 20, 2012. The lawgoons thread achieves Peak Smug.
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Apr 21, 2012 04:21
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Vander posted:Seriously. This screams pretention, and I'm sure more modern cases are more controlling. Green Crayons posted:
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Apr 21, 2012 04:21
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joat mon posted:Insurance defense. "If your grandma had only pulled herself up by her bootstraps once in a while, she wouldn't have got those stage 4 decubs!" Look, if that old lady wanted an unshattered hip, she shouldn't have been negligently daydreaming about gay Hitler child pornography to the point where she missed that first step. /insurance defence
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Apr 21, 2012 05:50
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Uh, I liked Con Law and all but I didn't wax poetic about it on the internet. 'Cause I'm normal.
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Apr 21, 2012 06:37
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I think it's pretty hilarious to picture, OK picture an MS Word document with track changes turned on. The first line of a paragraph says "The Supreme Court declared the law unconstitutional" in normal text, followed by that red underline text TC uses that says ",pursant to Marbury v Madison, FULL CITE, which vested in the Supreme Court the sole power to 'say what the law is.'" COMMENT BOX--"look at this academic bein all hurf durf this stuff is axiomatic...don't worry I got it guys lol what a noob. --Green Crayons"
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Apr 21, 2012 13:22
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Well that's all wrong. I use an ellipsis correctly.
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Apr 21, 2012 13:41
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Yeah but why should anyone care what SCOTUS says? You need a citation to the Constitution, vesting the judicial power of the United States in a supreme court. And probably a citation to the Judiciary Act of 1789 to show that SCOTUS is in fact the real one, not some sort of anti-pope pretender court. And then cite the Constitution again for the proposition that Congress had the vested authority to pass the Judiciary Act. Of course you should have a citation for the proposition that the Constitution is valid and enforceable, and uhhh fffffuck I think I just disproved every law review article ever??!? Linguica fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 13:41
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Linguica posted:Yeah but why should anyone care what SCOTUS says? You need a citation to the Constitution, vesting the judicial power of the United States in a supreme court. And probably a citation to the Judiciary Act of 1789 to show that SCOTUS is in fact the real one, not some sort of anti-pope pretender court. And then cite the Constitution again for the proposition that Congress had the vested authority to pass the Judiciary Act. What if the bluebook like, cited itself!?!
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Apr 21, 2012 14:29
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I just remembered that a high school friend of mine is a patent attorney here in DC now too so I shot him an email to see if his firm will hire me. Stupid networking.
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Apr 21, 2012 15:07
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:I just remembered that a high school friend of mine is a patent attorney here in DC now too so I shot him an email to see if his firm will hire me. Stupid networking. If all else fails, try for Canada. IP firms here have minimum billable requirements of, like, 1300.
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Apr 21, 2012 15:10
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Linguica posted:Of course you should have a citation for the proposition that the Constitution is valid and enforceable, and uhhh fffffuck I think I just disproved every law review article ever??!? The Articles of Confederation were established in perpetuity, the Constitution is in contravention of it, everything based on the Constitution violates the Articles. Checkmate, America. 
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Apr 21, 2012 15:29
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Nero posted:What if the bluebook like, cited itself!?!
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Apr 21, 2012 16:45
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diospadre posted:It would be like quoting yourself!
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Apr 21, 2012 16:53
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Question for you youngun's who are closer to the job market generally. We all know that law is a steadily declining profession. One where soon there will only be two attorneys from Cravath left alone in a gutted, desolate, grey world, gnawing flesh off the bones of lesser attorneys who fell victim to their distress beacon ploy. What professions/areas actually do offer some hope? Don't include anything that actually requires any quantitative or scientific skills, because yeah, I don't care about the possibility of controlling a team of Indian slave engineers for Boeing. If we enjoyed or were good at adding glyphs or mixing chemicals, we'd be Steven Hawking or Walter White or some poo poo like that. Clearly that's not happening. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 17:13
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Gaming law is or will soon be ridiculously hot and remain that way for the foreseeable future. The only downside to this is that it's one of those specialties where the entire field is dominated by a handful of people that are mostly sort of crazy and have an enthusiastic appreciation of everything Ron Paul. Also, unless you have some really good connections it's harder to get into than BIGLAW T&E. Otherwise, it's probably awesome.
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Apr 21, 2012 17:21
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Compliance for the financial industry seems to be hiring, particularly in the private fund and IM area. But outside of big law it only pays well if you work in-house for an actual fund. And in my opinion, its pretty boring work. EDIT: I also know that if you work legal/compliance for a fund, a lot of the functions overlap with client relations, marketing. Those guys make a nice bonus from the carry. fougera fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 17:54
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Con law is like the biblical studies class of law school. I don't believe in it and I don't give a poo poo what you think it says.
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Apr 21, 2012 18:15
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Agesilaus posted:Con law is like the biblical studies class of law school. I don't believe in it and I don't give a poo poo what you think it says. This is surprisingly apt.
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Apr 21, 2012 18:24
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Adar posted:Gaming law is or will soon be ridiculously hot and remain that way for the foreseeable future. I know you from the Internet so can I has job?
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Apr 21, 2012 19:03
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:I know you from the Internet so can I has job? I'm fairly certain I've played more video games than you. The job is mine drat it.
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Apr 21, 2012 19:05
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Adar posted:Gaming law is or will soon be ridiculously hot and remain that way for the foreseeable future. Answer appreciated. For clarification (and not criticism), my initial question was not merely directed at legal jobs. What does a young buck with a liberal arts degree and a brain do these days? (Other than starve to death while pretending to read Proust.)
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Apr 21, 2012 19:17
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fougera posted:Compliance for the financial industry seems to be hiring, particularly in the private fund and IM area. But outside of big law it only pays well if you work in-house for an actual fund. And in my opinion, its pretty boring work. Any advice on how to get into compliance? I'm hoping to switch over to it as certain aspects of it sound pretty interesting, and it seems like a good place to go after criminal prosecution. I also need global mobility and finance might offer that in a way that prosecution cannot. My uncle is currently getting some financial regulation certification and will send me the books/sign me up for the exam soon; is certification normal in this field? SlyFrog posted:Answer appreciated. For clarification (and not criticism), my initial question was not merely directed at legal jobs. What does a young buck with a liberal arts degree and a brain do these days? (Other than starve to death while pretending to read Proust.) "Liberal arts degree" and "brain" don't go well together in the US; who told you that you have a brain? Agesilaus fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 19:22
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SlyFrog posted:Answer appreciated. For clarification (and not criticism), my initial question was not merely directed at legal jobs. What does a young buck with a liberal arts degree and a brain do these days? (Other than starve to death while pretending to read Proust.) nothing, college is a scam, hth
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Apr 21, 2012 19:47
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Feces Starship posted:nothing, college is a scam, hth It's appalling, I agree, but academia has become something more harmful than a mere scam where the diplomas are literally required to enter many professions (such as law). You literally cannot be a lawyer in this state without pissing an average of seven years against the wall in some wretched "educational" institution. It's cold comfort that the GED enables you to skip several years of otherwise required schooling in a couple of hours.
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Apr 21, 2012 20:03
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:I know you from the Internet so can I has job? I'm not working in legal  This is probably inapplicable for most people reading this, but here's my best advice if you want into gaming from a legal POV: write a few law review articles and a blog and then just start submitting gaming legalization columns to places like Cardplayer. This industry is ridiculously insular and pretty much the last place I know of you can just sort of drift into. SlyFrog posted:Answer appreciated. For clarification (and not criticism), my initial question was not merely directed at legal jobs. What does a young buck with a liberal arts degree and a brain do these days? (Other than starve to death while pretending to read Proust.) Real, non-cynical answer: if I were a fresh grad right now I'd go teach English in Asia for a couple of years, get as fluent in the local language as possible and then go do marketing work, whether there or here. All the good opportunities for 20- and 30-somethings without a trade skill seem to be overseas, require bilingualism or both. Bonus if you accidentally wind up with the pedigree for a top 25 MBA and come back with the chops for banking (don't do this, it's awful hth). Or join the Army, whatevs.
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Apr 21, 2012 20:05
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Agesilaus posted:I'm fairly certain I've played more video games than you. The job is mine drat it. Wait, gaming law is an actual thing?
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Apr 21, 2012 20:09
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SlyFrog posted:Answer appreciated. For clarification (and not criticism), my initial question was not merely directed at legal jobs. What does a young buck with a liberal arts degree and a brain do these days? (Other than starve to death while pretending to read Proust.) Try to get accepted to officer candidate school (you won't be)? Get a teaching job (or get stuck being a substitute for several years)? Honestly, the only successful people I know with just liberal arts degrees went to Harvard. Look forward to someone actually answering this question. Adar posted:Real, non-cynical answer: if I were a fresh grad right now I'd go teach English in Asia for a couple of years[...] I didn't read this before I posted, but apparently teaching and the military really are the only two options. HiddenReplaced fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 20:10
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The best part of Con Law was when we covered the Texas sex toys case and one of my classmates said that women don't need sex toys because they can just go to the grocery store and buy a cucumber.
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Apr 21, 2012 20:34
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Agesilaus posted:Any advice on how to get into compliance? I'm hoping to switch over to it as certain aspects of it sound pretty interesting, and it seems like a good place to go after criminal prosecution. I also need global mobility and finance might offer that in a way that prosecution cannot. My uncle is currently getting some financial regulation certification and will send me the books/sign me up for the exam soon; is certification normal in this field? Not sure what this certification is, if it's a Series exam you need a FINRA member (employer) to sponsor you. If it's the CFA you definitely don't need it. At the risk of sounding too optimistic, I've seen JDs and experienced attorneys get a lot of love from investment banks looking to bone up their compliance departments post Dodd-Frank. A lot of the old guard (people who don't have law degrees) are getting replaced by JDs; thanks to the lovely job market, banks know they can pick up people with slightly more expertise on the cheap. As a result the pay is modest, especially at the entry level (as low as 40k all in). But if you really need a job, have a JD, and you have experience in something finance or regulatory (internship at SEC, FINRA, CFTC, etc.), you'd have a nice leg up. If you are looking to get in more mid-level (better pay, more interesting work perhaps), I know banks like people with experience in AML, Reg M, FCPA, and of course other compliance duties. I've also noticed litigators being hired to work on customer complaints/FINRA arbitration and e-discovery issues so banks don't have to pay expensive law firms for the hundreds of small-time suitability suits that come in. As a former prosecutor, this is probably your best route, from there you could probably move to a position more involved in developing firm compliance policy/monitoring (if that's what interests you). As far as the hiring process goes, many investment banks use their own HR but also use headhunters. I know most funds go exclusively through a headhunter. So it'd be wise to network with the handful of recruiters out there (Michael Page being the big one). Positions at funds are also a lot more competitive: they pay a lot better (I know people getting 120 base + bonus) but at the same time they keep their overhead as low as possible so they are looking for people who have the experience to run the entire compliance show. I've heard they often reach out to mid level associates at big law firms like Schulte. I don't have any anecdotal evidence of this, but I imagine working up to a managerial role within an Asset Management shop would have similar exit opportunities.
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Apr 21, 2012 21:02
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fougera posted:Not sure what this certification is, if it's a Series exam you need a FINRA member (employer) to sponsor you. If it's the CFA you definitely don't need it. That does sound a tad positive. I'm not looking for a big pay bump (I earn 60~k), I'm more interested in diversifying my background, so mid-level sounds good. If they like people with compliance experience, then this certification stuff is probably the closest I'm going to come to it (besides prosecution). Is the best way to find a mid-level position to go through recruiters, or should I be spamming every bank I can think of with my resume and a cover letter? Any advice on the application process is helpful, because that's precisely where I am right now; I have a resume, a cover letter template for compliance, an appellate brief as my writing sample and some audio recordings of oral arguments if anyone cares.
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Apr 21, 2012 21:16
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Agesilaus posted:
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Apr 21, 2012 21:28
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Agesilaus posted:That does sound a tad positive. I'm not looking for a big pay bump (I earn 60~k), I'm more interested in diversifying my background, so mid-level sounds good. If they like people with compliance experience, then this certification stuff is probably the closest I'm going to come to it (besides prosecution). Is the best way to find a mid-level position to go through recruiters, or should I be spamming every bank I can think of with my resume and a cover letter? Any advice on the application process is helpful, because that's precisely where I am right now; I have a resume, a cover letter template for compliance, an appellate brief as my writing sample and some audio recordings of oral arguments if anyone cares. To maximize your efforts I would focus heavily on headhunters. It sucks having to go through an extra gatekeeper, but its well worth it. I spent a lot of last summer trying to get in touch with these guys but I finally got my name in the hat with one and she hits me up pretty often offering interviews for various positions. Granted I have not been notified of a position I'd actually take but I think that's more because of my limited experience (I'm still in law school) and I specifically told recruiters I was looking for a front office job. My advice is to have a good story about your interest in the area, pound the phones, and keep following up. This all said, you probably should still apply through the career pages at bulge brackets even though they tend to be blackholes. Edit: Oh and let me know what this certification is called, I'm curious. fougera fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 21:45
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Athenry posted:Wait, gaming law is an actual thing? Adar is talking about gambling law, casinos, online poker, horse racing, etc.
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Apr 21, 2012 23:03
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How mad are the casinos that they're cut out of the settlement
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